English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

A dormouse can treacle.

@tchrist OK then. proven.

A blacksmith can wreak.

@MετάEd treak-luh?

7:05 PM

@tchrist What does skritch have that "scratch" does not have?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I hope you haven't attempted to do so on your own??

@MετάEd Vikings wreak havoc.

@Cerberus I'm reckless that way

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Friendliness.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that smoky backwoods flavor.

7:06 PM

Wow.

Did it burn, when the device exploded?

@tchrist But there's even that saying "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"

@Mitch Viscounts wreck havoc.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 if you used 'scritch' that would a little too familiar.

But scritch is gentle and friendly, pleasant in a way that a scratch from a blackberry bush can never be.

@Cerberus The device didn't explode, but the web has.

7:07 PM

@tchrist true, thorns never scritch you

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh but...

When will the shock wave reach us?

Note that I use bush imprecisely.

I dunno. to me "scritch" is a sound, not an action.

@MετάEd Boers trek veldt.

@Mitch Bores strike felt.

Or matches.

7:08 PM

@Cerberus Currently the crisis on infinite Earths is infinity - 273 earths away.

Coleridge: Perhaps it is the owlet’s scritch: / For what can aid the mastiff bitch?

Wrong kind.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I guess we don't need to worry for awhile.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh. Yes. I see.

@MετάEd Bolls weevil cotton.

@tchrist There is never a right kind of stiff bitch.

7:09 PM

@MετάEd It's hard to say for sure.

@Mitch What's a neevil?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I did the math.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But what kind of sound is it? A piercing shriek, or a gentle scraping?

I wonder whether DARE covers this.

@MετάEd a neevil is a nvery nbad nthing. nkills ncrops.

@tchrist scraping. I think it could be used in the gentle or shrill sense.

Not a piercing shriek though. For that I'd use "shriek". Maybe that's just me?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, that sounds right.

Anecdotal, but on multiple occasions I got a request to give a scritchy-scratch to a friend's back. I declined, of course, because the word wasn't in the OED. (: — Zairja 12 mins ago

That is pretty funny!

7:11 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Banshees shriek. Warriors whoop.

Whores whoop.

It’s a hooping crane not a wooping crane.

I don’t know why.

And fingernails on a blackboard scritch.

Yes, that’s right.

It’s the tightness of the vowel, I think.

they can also screech

Bit not beet.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Weren’t you one who had wooping crane not hooping crane?

7:14 PM

@tchrist I don't think I've ever claimed one or the other.

I think I pronounce both the w and the h.

I thought it was a Canadian.

Well, I'm not the only one :)

"whooping crane" is not a word I've often heard, let alone used.

In the UK, I have heard wooping. In Wisconsin, where we have such things, they are hooping. I like whoop for the cry.

As in whoosh, it works better with the aspirated version.

A cough I would have had but never actually had is wooping cough. I would never have hooping cough. That would give me a cough.

This is very frightening.

Take care with how you use "scritch" as well. In context its meaning would be clear, but the term also has a pretty strong (in popular usage on the internet at least) connection to furry culture. — Marcus_33 5 mins ago

@Marcus_33 What is “furry culture”? — tchrist 5 mins ago

@tchrist I'd link it but I still haven't figured out the proper format for that in a comment. It's people who dress and behave as anthropomorphic animals and is frequently sexual in nature. — Marcus_33 3 mins ago

7:16 PM

yeah I think that is just perpetuating a goofy misunderstanding in Urban dictionary.

@tchrist LOL he used "popular" and "furry culture" at the same time

Urban Dictioary is great for when it's right, but mostly crap.

Is he talking about zoöphilia?

No, people who dress up as animals

popular as in vulgar

it's a thing.

7:17 PM

People dress up as animals???!

I'm sure he was implying "common"

costumes you know.

Halloween is close, I suppose.

@tchrist You haven't heard of furry culture?

all year round.

7:17 PM

Not really.

"Frankly sexual" is frankly freaky.

you should read...well, what -would one read to find out about this stuff?

Maybe it is modernist totemic activity.

Furry fandom

The furry fandom is a subculture interested in fictional anthropomorphic animal characters with human personalities and characteristics. Examples of anthropomorphic attributes include exhibiting human intelligence and facial expressions, the ability to speak, walk on two legs, and wear clothes. Furry fandom is also used to refer to the community of people who gather on the Internet and at conventions. History According to fandom historian Fred Patten, the concept of furry originated at a science fiction convention in 1980, when a character drawing from Steve Gallacci’s Albedo Anthropomo...

@tchrist In some corners of the Internet, the term "furfag" is bandied about.

Matt Эллен

7:19 PM

@Mitch probably the tumblr furry tag [NSFW]

@Zairja OFFS, you are kidding, please please please?

Little Fuzzy

Little Fuzzy is the name of a 1962 science fiction novel by H. Beam Piper, and is now in public domain. It is generally seen as a work of juvenile fiction. It was nominated for the 1963 Hugo Award for Best Novel. The story revolves around determining whether a small furry species discovered on the planet Zarathustra is sapient. Along the way a gentle kind of libertarianism that emphasizes sincerity and honesty is advocated. During a book signing at Strand Book Store, Piper alleged that the Little Fuzzy series was inspired by an acquaintance named Kevin "Fuzzy" Sheffield. Piper and Sheffi...

You can't make this stuff up.

Erotic target location error

Erotic target location error (ETLE) refers to having a sexual preference (or very strong sexual interest) in features that are somewhere other than on one's sexual partner(s). When one's sexual arousal is based on imagining one's self in another physical form (such as an animal, an infant, or an amputee) the erotic target is said to be one's self, or erotic target identity inversion. Sexual arousal is based on some other object (neither one's sexual partner nor one's self) include the fetishes. Etymology The terms "erotic target location error" and "erotic target identity inversion" w...

From that article I learned the words "plushophilia", "autoplushophilia", and "fursuitism".

Eek.

autoplushophilia: the erotic arousal of imagining yourself as a plush animal.

7:22 PM

> A portion of the fandom is sexually interested in zoophilia, or in fursuitism, although a majority take a negative stance towards the former. In a survey conducted by David J. Rust in 1997-1998, about 2% of furry respondents stated an interest in zoophilia, and less than 1% an interest in plushophilia, though the survey's accompanying study doesn't comment on these results, and in another survey in 2008 attempting to replicate the results, 17% of respondents reported zoophilia.

I always thought "Erotic target location error" was when you got a 404 on a porn site. TIL.

Eek, there is indeed something of a zoöphilic component. Be Very Afraid™.

I should like to unremember all this.

@tchrist oh, yes, of course there is. Actually I was reading about zoophilia once and there were arguments about whether or not it should be illegal. Opinions varied.

We even discussed it here.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Isn’t that upholstering your car with shag carpet?

Or just with a shag? :)

This SE user's picture disturbs me.

7:25 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 "Erotic target location error" is known as "wrong hole".

@MετάEd That's one kind of error.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well sure. We discuss everything here.

When a dog humps your leg, is that bestiality?

@MετάEd Also, "That's my foot. . . but keep going."

@Zairja Very axe-murderer–looking.

@Zairja Yes.

7:26 PM

@MετάEd No, only when you enjoy it.

@MετάEd There’s a wrong hole? :)

@tchrist Nobody concerns themselves with whether the sheep likes it. So why should it matter if the leg likes it?

@tchrist There's only a wrong hole if you are a prescriptivist.

@MετάEd I suspect the sheep concerns herself with the matter.

@tchrist Yes, but then we call it bestiality.

I'm saying, when the dog is on the other foot, what do we call it?

And why do we think the dog would concern itself with how the foot feels?

The images on the Wikipedia zoöphilia page are many of them really really disturbing.

@MετάEd You mean when it gets kicked?

Hilarious.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And what is your opinion?

I don't see why it should be specifically forbidden.

Laws against animal abuse already cover hurting animals.

If the animal is not hurt, it seems fine.

7:33 PM

I once knew a furry from London
Who erred in erotic location
He wore cat's pyjamas
And made love with llamas
But humans he gave no attention

Just as there is no reason for laws against religious discrimination if you already have laws against discrimination in general: there shouldn't be anything covered by the former but not by the latter.

@Zairja Hah!

My opinion is that animals cannot give meaningful consent to sex, in a similar manner to children, and so humans should not be allowed to have sex with them. I'm willing to concede that a human having sex with an animal doesn't automatically harm the animal. I might be convinced that consent isn't required for animals because they are, after all, just animals.

Indeed.

How would you feel about forbidding animal sex, but allowing the killing of animals?

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 hmmmm. maybe, but I eat meat without the consent of animals.

@MattЭллен yeah, that's why I'm still unsure about the consent part.

7:35 PM

And how about robbing animals of their freedom?

It would be preposterous.

@Cerberus robbing which animals? pets? or wild animals

First outlaw all those other things, then consider animal sex.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 All.

@Cerberus Well, I see them as two different cases. Pets are raised in society (or captivity, if you will) and are distinct from wild animals which actually do have meaningful freedom.

The criterion should be whether the animal is hurt, not some silly anthropomorphism.

@Cerberus Although I'm firmly in the camp of "veganism is the moral imperative" (though I'm not vegan), I think you might counter that by the fact that animals' lives are cruel enough, so why make it even worse?

7:36 PM

Just like we take care of children, we take care of pets.

I think if the animal dies of natural causes, you probably cannot find criminal fault in someone who subsequently uses its corpse for rocksoffgetting.

@Zairja Hmm I'm not sure I understand the opposition.

@Zairja veganism goes too far, I think. EG I don't see how milk and eggs need to be forbidden. The animals which produce these should be treated well though. But hey are domestic animals.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Pets are not children.

@Cerberus But they are part of society. The responsible thing to do is keep them and care for them. You bring pets into the world, you ensure their care. Otherwise, don't breed your domestic animals.

7:38 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The issue is that 99.998% of the milk and egg production is generated via torture. It doesn’t count on a private/family farm with humane production.

@tchrist The foot?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 FWIW, I don't see it as an "animal rights" issue, but as a "human rights" issue, i.e. what's best for mankind. It's the production method of milk and eggs that seems ultimately detrimental to our survival of the species.

*the survival of our species

@tchrist Yes but veganism doesn't allow for cruelty-free milk or eggs.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You’re the guy who thinks vegetarians eat bird meat and fish meat, aren’t you?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 We breed pigs, which are more intelligent.

7:40 PM

@tchrist No. I'm the guy who knows people who self-identify as vegetarian, yet they eat chicken or fish.

I don’t think it profitable to debate eating words with you.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Cows need to bear calves regularly to give milk, and half the calves (the males) are slaughtered. So if you are vegan you would not want that, hence you would avoid milk.

A chicken is not a vegetable.

A fish is not a vegetable.

Q

E

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I know many so-called vegetarians who eat fish.

@tchrist Dude! You don't need to take it up with me! I fucking know already.

7:40 PM

Dead on Arrival.

@tchrist Is a banana a vegetable?

The issue with eggs is more about the conditions in which the chickens are kept. But bear in mind that vegans oppose animal captivity, so even keeping chickens "humanely" does not satisfy.

I would call it a fruit.

@Cerberus Or are you just happy to see me? :)

Take your pick.

I don't normally address you as "it".

7:41 PM

@MετάEd Well, I don't think it follows that animal "captivity" is a bad thing. My children are captive too, in a sense.

Indeed they are.

Hablando del Rey de Roma

A banana is composed entirely of vegetable matter. This is indisputable.

A chicken is not.

Vegetable matter ≠ a vegetable.

@tchrist Neither is a vegetarian. QE-fucking-D

:)

The word vegetarian is just a bad word, that is, it doesn't mean what it is supposed to mean. "Vegetarians" normally eat eggs and mushrooms and whatnot.

7:43 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It is true you can argue the point about animal captivity. But if you oppose it then you would avoid eggs.

Well, this is better than zoöphilia, but no more profitable.

@tchrist so Zoophilia is actually legal in many places

Zoophilia and the law

Zoophilia and the law looks at the laws governing humans having sex with animals around the world. Legal context Laws on bestiality tend to be shaped by animal welfare concerns, moral views and cultural beliefs. Animal welfare bodies usually, but not always, view zoophilia as a matter of animal abuse. Recent legislation For centuries, sexual acts with animals were penalized under sodomy or "crime against nature" laws. Since the 1950s most such general laws have been repealed and in some places they have been replaced by laws which are specifically anti-bestiality. Most of these new...

@Cerberus I know a vegetarian who does not eat eggs or mushrooms, although he does eat milk and (non–rennet-derived) cheese.

I repeat, there is no point in outlawing zoöphilia if you already have laws against hurting animals.

@tchrist See?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Consider reading Eating Animals or this article. There's a great book that really breaks down the moral / philosophical arguments from both sides, but I can't recall the name of it.

7:45 PM

It is a bad word.

He does eat bread and beer, though, so there is not a kingdom-bias here. He just doesn’t like shrooms — they creep him out.

Same here.

It’s a texture thing, I guess.

Oh, it is so much more!

I can't stand mushrooms

7:45 PM

Disgusting monsters.

He thinks they taste of dirt.

The texture, the smell, the taste, and, most importantly, the concept.

shudders

I really like Quorn.

Touching a raw mushroom already digusts me.

This user wants a word with you english.stackexchange.com/users/1165/gilles

7:46 PM

Concept?

You ought not eat raw shrooms.

Unless you’re planning on tripping.

Quorn

Quorn is the leading brand of imitation meat mycoprotein in the United Kingdom. The mycoprotein used to produce Quorn is extracted from the fungus Fusarium venenatum, which is grown in large vats. The product was developed by Rank Hovis McDougall and Imperial Chemical Industries, and launched commercially as the Quorn brand as a joint venture of the two companies under the operating name of Marlow Foods. The brand has been owned by Exponent Private Equity and Intermediate Capital Group since 2011. Quorn is produced as both a cooking ingredient and a range of ready meals. It is sold (la...

@tchrist Even knowing that it is made out of mushrooms makes me dislike it.

@tchrist Everybody eats raw mushrooms.

@Cerberus Only recreationally, right?

Quorn is quite popular here.

I’m told it tastes like chicken.

@Cerberus Truly?

@tchrist Just regular mushrooms. No, they have no hallucinating qualities.

@tchrist Yes.

@Cerberus I have it on good authority that it is not a good idea to eat them raw. Why do you say everyone does?

I can do it, of course, in case of an emergency.

@tchrist Because everyone eats them raw here!

7:49 PM

Hm. Salads?

@tchrist Don't you ever put raw white mushrooms in salad?

@tchrist Or just from the box.

Yes, but I can’t think of any other use.

While cooking.

Hm.

But if while cooking, aren’t they cooked?

7:49 PM

My mom serves them with other raw vegetables as snacks

I would rather kill the monsters first. Raw would seem even more disgusting.

(sorry Cerb: mushrooms are vegetables in that sense (as are tomatoes))

@tchrist Use your imagination! You're cooking, cutting mushrooms, and you eat a couple!

@Zairja Avec moi? What do you mean?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ...

7:51 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Like with raw chicken?

@tchrist No!

Raw chicken is bad.

Raw beef is good.

Raw pork is bad.

Raw fish is good.

@tchrist I don't know why you keep bringing that up? I am not responsible for how other people use the word "vegetarian"

Everybody uses it incorrectly anyway, so the shift towards fish, nay, chicken doesn't shock me.

A: What is the opposite of organic (food)?

Hello guys. Why does this answer do not still get some upvote.

0

encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com reads: "Synthetic food products are derived from chemically synthesized food substances". Hence, I suppose "synthetic food" is the opposite of "organic food".

Q: alternatives for computer programming terms, for better understanding

I tried to edit this to fix the broken Inglish, but gave up:

0

There are several words in Computer Science which seems quite simple for understanding, but when you just mix them with their application, they looks more and more complex. I have seen many people who are new to computer programming, getting confused very easy almost by every single technical ter...

I cannot figure out how to fix it so that it scans.

7:54 PM

@Carlo_R. Because it's not correct.

The opposite of organic food is food which is not organic.

But if you go to Whole Foods, it will label such things as conventionally grown.

Thank you!

@Carlo_R. In this case "organic" refers to how the food was produced, i.e. without synthetic pesticides, etc.

"synthetic food" is merely a subset of foods that don't qualify as "organic".

Organic food is a somewhat specialist term whose meaning is not particularly obvious in English.

@tchrist It's a marketing term.

7:56 PM

@Carlo_R. The problem is that certain spiritual freaks once decided to call their method of farming, which involved burying cow horns to increase fertility, "organic farming". This was then later picked up in certain countries by environmentalists, who call various sorts of environmentalist farming "organic".

@Mr.Shiny and tchrist for the complete explanation.

@Cerberus what? citation needed?

The definition is now even vaguer than it used to be.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Look it up!

Thank you.

I believe it started as a German movement in the 19th century.

7:57 PM

@Carlo_R. Does Italian use the word biologico/a for such food?

@Cerberus etymonline.com/index.php?term=organic

> Sense of "from organized living beings" is first recorded 1778 (earlier this sense was in organical, mid-15c.). Meaning "free from pesticides and fertilizers" first attested 1942.

@Cerberus Your jokes are very long today.

> The first lectures and publications on organic agriculture stem from Rudolf Steiner

En la Unión Europea las denominaciones orgánico, ecológico y biológico para los productos agrícolas y ganaderos destinados a la alimentación humana o animal se consideran sinónimos y su uso está protegido y regulado por los Reglamentos Comunitarios 834/2007 y 889/2008. Los prefijos eco y bio también están protegidos y regulados así mismo en todos los idiomas de la Unión. En cada país hay costumbre de usar uno u otro término.
Por ejemplo, en España está más extendido el uso de ecológico, en Portugal y Francia se usa más el término biológico (en francés biologique), mientras que en el Reino U…

Organic farming

Organic farming is the form of agriculture that relies on techniques such as crop rotation, green manure, compost and biological pest control. Organic farming uses fertilizers and pesticides but excludes or strictly limits the use of manufactured (synthetic) fertilizers, pesticides (which include herbicides, insecticides and fungicides), plant growth regulators such as hormones, livestock antibiotics, food additives, genetically modified organisms, human sewage sludge, and nanomaterials. Organic agricultural methods are internationally regulated and legally enforced by many nations, based...

7:59 PM

What’s this about burying oxenhorns?