English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-10-12 (page 5 of 5)

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8:00 PM

History of organic farming

Organic farming (of many particular kinds in different eras and places) was the original type of agriculture, and has been practiced for thousands of years. For example, forest gardening, a fully organic food production system which dates from prehistoric times, is thought to be the world's oldest and most resilient agroecosystem. After the industrial revolution had introduced inorganic methods, some of which were not well developed and had serious side effects, an organic movement began in the 1940s as a reaction to agriculture's growing reliance on synthetic fertilizers and herbicidal we...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus But was it called "organic" then

I believe Steiner e.a. coined the term.

I don't know the precise history.

Organic certification

Organic certification is a certification process for producers of organic food and other organic agricultural products. In general, any business directly involved in food production can be certified, including seed suppliers, farmers, [food] processors, retailers and restaurants. Requirements vary from country to country, and generally involve a set of production standards for growing, storage, processing, packaging and shipping that include: * no human sewage sludge fertilizer used in cultivation of plants or feed of animals * avoidance of synthetic chemical inputs not on the National L...

But Wikipedia conflated the modern sense with the more specific initial sense.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Probably he coined a German term? etymonline says it's only attested in the 40s

8:02 PM

No doubt.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway, it doesn't come from cow horns, it comes from "organic" vs "inorganic", which are scientific terms related to living/non-living things.

The history of the movement explains the word: "organic" is a silly name.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Only in that all farming is to a great extent already organic. It's just that "organic" farming strives to be "fully organic".

@Cerberus Does Dutch use a better word?

They used "organic" to mean "related to the spiritual concept of vitality, as opposed to lifeless matter", instead of "having an organic chemical structure", which is what it ought to mean.

@tchrist We have word that is just as bad: biologisch.

You can see how silly that is.

It too comes from Steiner's movement.

8:04 PM

That’s what Spanish uses.

It came from biologisch-dynamisch.

And hence why I asked Carlo.

There is neither an Italian nor a Dutch translation on Wikipedia though, so I did not know.

Organisch is probably used too.

It's all a mess, because none of those words have specific enough meanings.

> Por ejemplo, en España está más extendido el uso de ecológico, en Portugal y Francia se usa más el término biológico (en francés biologique), mientras que en el Reino Unido se utiliza más orgánico (organic en inglés).

And modern medicine went through its blood letting period. What is the point of trying to discredit a modern practice based on what it came from?

8:06 PM

@Cerberus thank you

They all have legal definitions, that are much more extensive than the word can possibly convey.

@Cerberus thank you

Food here is co-labelled biologique if it is to be sold also in Canada.

@MετάEd I'm not discrediting the entire range of modern practices going by that name, and certainly not all their activities. But 1. their terminology is a mess, and 2. they operate on various premises, some of which are unsound.

@Cerberus Right. How I feel about chiropractic.

8:08 PM

Could be.

I certainly will never visit a chiropractor.

@Cerberus Right, like no “genetically engineered” food.

Makes no sense at all.

Please close this NS posting ere the close-votes evaporate:

1

Q: Comma in "more than $6 billion to settle a long-running lawsuit, in a pact that also permits"

Visa Inc., MasterCard Inc. and some large banks agreed to pay scores of retailers—from giant Publix Supermarkets Inc. to an interior-design store in Minnesota—more than $6 billion to settle a long-running lawsuit, in a pact that also permits merchants to charge more to customers who pay with ...

punctuation comma clauses

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Stop the presses! I agree with @tchrist on a food-related issue!

Some chiropractors are complete nuts. Some chiropractors are doing things that occasionally paralyze people permanently from the neck down.

@tchrist Well, if you take "engineered" as DNA that is changed directly, without cross-/breeding etc., it is at least clear what it means.

8:10 PM

@tchrist Did, ages ago.

@MετάEd Really? How often does that happen? I thought it was mostly harmless pseudo-science with a bit of physiotherapy and placebo thrown in?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It is still a fallacious position. It is not a fact that "mother nature" is necessarily a better genetic engineer than humans.

@MετάEd I know a nice one. She quit her job as a cracker to start a local ice-cream–making company and to write children’s books.

@Cerberus It's dangerous.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 As I said, at least its terminology is better.

8:10 PM

@MετάEd Me, too.

@Cerberus That particular tragedy is rare, fortunately. But not unheard of.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus When I went to a chiropractor they made me sign a waiver about the chance of neck injuries.

@MετάEd How dangerous?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Does it matter? The procedure has no benefit!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Dear Lord. Did you sign it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:11 PM

@Cerberus I did. But I was young then.

I see.

That's pretty bad.

I knew she wasn’t a nutjob, because she gave her children penicillin when they got strep throat.

I'm fine with people visiting pseudo-scientific therapists, on certain inclusive conditions:

1. They do not forego real treatment if such would be helpful and available;

@Cerberus quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Victims/victims.html

2. They are not in any way physically harmed;

And 3. the state doesn't pay for it.

In any way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:13 PM

@Cerberus whatstheharm.net

Those conditions are usually not met.

Good sites.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Perhaps not in the case of chiropraxis.

But acupuncture?

Yoga/meditation?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus whatstheharm.net/acupuncture.html

They even have some beneficial effects, despite the mumbo-jumbo.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yoga is a kind of exercise. It has demonstrable benefits.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, if condition 1 is not met, anything can be harmful.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It also has lots of crap theories and claims around it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:18 PM

@Cerberus But people get infections from acupuncture needles too. And burns from accupuncture+electroshock. Plus nerve damage and other things. It's very common.

Acupuncture also has a demonstrable benefit, namely 1. the benefits bestowed on a person by physical contact, relaxation, and so on; and 2. the placebo effect.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes but you can achieve the placebo effect with, eg, massage.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Very common?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not if you already believe in acupuncture but not in massage.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes. At least as common as other errors from medical procedures. But the difference is that acupuncture does not actually work. It has been demonstrated time and again. So all the harm it causes is net harm, while medicine is net good even if there is some harm.

@Cerberus The placebo effect is not sufficient to offer something as a medical treatment. That's simply fraud.

I think you're exaggerating.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:21 PM

It's unethical to sell someone a product that does not work, on the off chance that the customer might get lucky and not need the product after all.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Homeopathy.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Do you feel church membership and offerings should be forbidden as well?

@Cerberus I have some magic beans you might be interested in.

Yay!

Do I swallow them or plant them?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist homeopathy is fraud.

8:22 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Mostly. Sometimes it is delusion.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus They should be forbidden from making claims.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Remember the manufacturer can be as stupid as the consumer.

Dowsers generally believe they are finding water, too.

They don't think they are defrauding their clients.

@cerberus Just by keeping them in your pocket, you are 30% more likely to have an increase in happiness and well-being.

I think homoeopathy is worse than acupuncture, because it resembles medicine too closely. It is less likely to satisfy condition 1, no competing with real treatment.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MετάEd And yet they usually refuse to test their claims scientifically. THAT is the hallmark of fraud.

8:23 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Is that all?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes. If churches make no claims about what giving money to the church provides, then they are not fraudulent.

@Zairja Ohh...why pocket, specifically? Is there a local effect to be hoped for?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Just like if homeopathy were not allowed to make claims about what it can treat, it is not fraud.

@Zairja I do too: themouseandthebean.com

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 They subscribe to their holy texts, which do make such claims.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus fraud, then.

8:24 PM

And implicit claims should be no better than explicit ones.

Just look at the popularity of products like Cold-Eeze. On the box it clearly states "homeopathy", but I've known lots of people who swear by it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus They are not.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Then you should outlaw at least the Abrahamic religions.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus If only I could.

Although to be fair, outlawing religion doesn't actually work

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 They are—what matters is whether or not they are convincing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:25 PM

@Cerberus No, I mean implicit claims are no better.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The same applies to the pseudo-sciences. Regulation is better.

@Zairja Troubling.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ah, yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Indeed. And regulation is what we have, though it typically falls way short.

@Zairja You ask really good questions.

8:26 PM

@Zairja Yes, many people buy homoeopathic stuff here as well.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

cold-eeze is, as far as I understand, not strictly homeopathic. It has lots of zinc in it.

As long as they fulfil condition 1 (no replacement for real medicine) and 3 (no public money), I have no problem with it.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's not true. James Randi has had a lot of dowsers try for the prize. They rationalized their failure afterward because they simply could not believe the scientific explanation, of course.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

furthermore lots of so-called homeopathic drugs actually have active ingredients and thus are real drugs.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Then that should be regulated as the same, right?

8:28 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, many of the stuff sold as "homoeopathic" does not follow their own rules, which say it should not contain anything but water/etc.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MετάEd Yeah, I suppose. But in that case they are willfully ignoring evidence of their own fraudulence. How is that different from willfull fraud?

So there is a chance that some of their real plant extract could have some effect, for better or worse.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist It often sneaks under the radar and is later the object of a court case or recall once it's discovered that they were lying.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's not willful ignorance. It's plain ignorance.

@tchrist @tchrist Thanks, though today I felt like I was grasping at straws. I had an ulterior motive (trying to get over 200 rep in one day). I'm one of those users, but I can only ask something that I genuinely don't know, genuinely want to know, and think might contribute to the site (as far as I know).

8:29 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 A lot of people don't think the way you do.

@Zairja Scritchy-scratch fits the rule John Lawler posted about freezes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MετάEd A lot of people are wrong about a lot of things. Not that I'm always right. But at least I believe in the notion of science.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 shocked

I got a different impression!

11

Q: crisscross, dillydally, riffraff, etc

Some English words only differ in their vowels: crisscross, dillydally, riffraff, etc. Is there a name for them?

single-word-requests

@Zairja I’m always clawing for reps in the afternoons. I only get any when people accept one of my answers. :)

Yep.

That’s the one.

Reduplicative freezes, he calls them.

8:34 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The scientific mind is rare.

I’d never encountered freeze in that sense before.

If you paint them on a wall does that make them reduplicative friezes?

Only if you make lots of copies.

Or use mirrors pointing at mirrors.

@Zairja Hey look, there’s a book entitled Scritch Scratch!

It’s about head lice!

Of course, of course.

@tchrist Lice are not nice. -_-

@Zairja Nor is one louse, nouse.

8:41 PM

@MετάEd Isn't there enough overlap with 'physical therapy' to have some benefit? It's not all 'magical thinking' (like with homeopathy). Some tendons and muscles are stretched in clinically therapeutic ways, aren't there?

@Mitch Perhaps, but I'd rather be in "good hands" (lit.) that know what not to do, relying on evidence-based medicine / practices rather than "this is good for your chi".

@Mitch I wouldn't hesitate to go to a licensed physical therapist on the recommendation of a good doctor.

I am all for evidence based medicine.

Actually, science based medicine. Evidence based medicine tends to forget about Bayes.

Heh, and the thing is that if there are "kernels of truth" to homeopathic remedies, then science should bear that out.

@Zairja Right. The difference between medicine and homeopathic medicine is that when homeopathic medicine has scientifically measurable benefits it becomes medicine.

Same with Chinese medicine, herbal supplements, etc.

The word for what actually, demonstrably works, is "medicine".

9:03 PM

Yeah I'm with you all, it's just that I thought there was some smidgen of something demonstrably scientifically OK about chiropractic (that is not placebo or irrelevant), in contrast to acupuncture or homeopathy.

@MετάEd I’m not fond of “evidence-based” as a modifier of medicine. The other kind we call flimflam.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

As Tim Minchin said: "Do you know what they call alternative medicine once it's been proven to work? Medicine."

Of course.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus You'd be surprised how many people don't see it that way.

In their eyes is a vast conspiracy

fueled by greed

@tchrist I get your point, but the question is what theoretical underpinning is best for medicine. Evidence based medicine is the term for medicine grounded in clinical trials. Science based medicine is the term for medicine grounded in the scientific method.

9:07 PM

I am not surprised that tons of people are stupid.

sciencebasedmedicine.org

If that's what you mean.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Where do I +1 Tim Minchin.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MετάEd evidence-based medicine that doesn't use scientifically-sound evidence should not be called "evidence-based".

@MετάEd you can find him on youtube.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 We desperately need the question: What is alternative medicine called when it has been proven to work?

9:08 PM

@MετάEd But you're assuming a priori that science is better than alternative methods. Science depends on theories too, you know. We should be open to things that we can't see.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, I mean +1 your comment. I know and love Tim Minchin.

@Cerberus splutter

Hehe.

Just ... stfu.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Dammit, you almost got me

Why didn't you bite?

9:09 PM

Now I need to wash that out of my eyes.

@Cerberus nipped

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You laughed too soon.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I would at least have expected you to bite.

@tchrist That's nice.

@MετάEd Here, have this homoeopathic cleansing agent.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway I must be off to discover what new ways my kids will have found to ruin their clothing while at school on picture day. Paint? food? tears? who can say?

We used aceton instead of water to dilute the working substance, this time.

Matt Эллен

9:10 PM

user image

2

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 All of the above!!

@MattЭллен Haha, I know that one. Great.

Except that it has the the.

Matt Эллен

now I can't not notice that :D

I hadn't seen it before

Sorry.

@MattЭллен That’s a tad misleading because evolution isn’t a theory. It is a model. Scientists use theory in a very different sense than a guess. Newton’s Theory of Gravitation was still a model, later modified by general and special relativity. But it was never a guess.

@Cerberus Great. Now I have sugar pills in my eyes.

9:15 PM

It’s like how “number theory” is anything but a guess.

Matt Эллен

A is something spoken, written, or done with humorous intention. Jokes may have many different forms, e.g., a single word or a gesture (considered in a particular context), a question-answer, or a whole short story. The word "joke" has , including wisecrack, gag, prank, quip, jape and jest. To achieve their end, jokes may employ irony, sarcasm, word play and other devices. Jokes may have a punch line, i.e. an ending to make it humorous. A practical joke or prank differs from a spoken joke in that the major component of the humour is physical rather than verbal (for example placin...

@MattЭллен That’s what you use for oxen, right?

Matt Эллен

:D

Ja

@MετάEd Hehehe.

If somebody comes to us with two dictionary definitions that seem in conflict, does it or does it not make sense to close that as GR? I can see arguments either way.

Matt Эллен

9:19 PM

I think it should be answered, probably. depends on the question

@tchrist My touchstone for GR is the first two words of the definition: "Too basic".

I am not really sure where Theo is coming from.

Well, apart from Toronto.

I wonder whether he is a native speaker. He doesn’t ever say things wrong, but his questions are not what I would expect of a native speaker.

It is his latest question where the matter arises.

2

Q: Meaning of "nip"

Nip is defined differently in two different dictionaries. From OALD, nip is defined as “to give somebody or something a quick painful bite or pinch”, whereas in MWLD, it is defined as “to bite or pinch (someone or something) lightly.” Which is correct, or can they both be applied?

I’m almost as quick to close things as FF is, but I wonder if we aren’t a little mean sometimes.

Matt Эллен

seems legit

He did his research. It doesn’t seem fair to GR him.

Matt Эллен

yeah. it's a fair differences question

9:24 PM

@MattЭллен Ooh ooh — retag away! :)

Matt Эллен

done!

@tchrist Does the question create interest in an English expert?

10:04 PM

@MετάEd Well, that is another question altogether. Oops.

user image

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 This is what happens if you use a silly DRM scheme to block rooted users who have paid € 11 for a game from playing it.

The universe is just!

At least the Googelverse is.

This game got very high reviews from pros and on the Iphone.

So the low rating is all due to its blocking rooted users.

Now they have announced they will "fix the issue", which means revert their DRM bullshit (it was intentional, not an issue that they will "fix").

play.google.com/store/apps/…

Very recent game btw.

Matt Эллен

10:32 PM

user image

Is it dead or alive?

10:44 PM

Wow!

@MattЭллен Wow again!

The truth is shocking.

Matt Эллен

yeah, pretty grim

The picture combined with the truth is completely horrifying, and of course fascinating.

Matt Эллен

yeah, it creeps me out :D I keep looking at it even so

This is on par with the toadtstool ant and the epomis beetle.

Matt Эллен

what was the toadstool ant?

10:50 PM

user image

Matt Эллен

oh yeah!

user image

Matt Эллен

life's hard when you're an ant

user image

user image

@MattЭллен Indeed.

user image

Caterpillar controlled by the eggs of a wasp.

Matt Эллен

poor little guy!

10:56 PM

user image

Matt Эллен

so gross!

user image

user19161

These pictures remind me of myself.

> Tachinid fly larvae next to the monarch chyralis they emerged from. A single monarch can host 8 or more tachinid flies. — Photo by S. Altizer.

8 large larvae in a single catepillar!

Together, they are bigger than their host!

user19161

Do we all have something that we feel controls us and yet we cannot rid it?

10:58 PM

But the host swells to house them.

I have not been infected by a parasitic fungus or insect, that I know of.

At least none that are harmful.

Matt Эллен

barf-tastic

user19161

Hello @matt! What's your current beard status?

Matt Эллен

beardy

hi @Jasper :)

Okay, perhaps I shouldn't be posting this, in case unsuspecting weak stomachs visit us.

But what is Jasper's beard status?

Matt Эллен

heh, nah! it'll be good for them :D

11:01 PM

But who will have to clean up?

user19161

@Cerberus Never had any.

Matt Эллен

Reg?

OK.

user19161

There are two people in the math room who have not shaved since high school.

user19161

We had Rhodri of course, but he left.

user19161

11:02 PM

I think @cerb does not keep a beard?

Never.

user19161

Yes, cerby looks more cute without one.

Is it wrong to use ellipses instead of quotation marks?

Matt Эллен

I would say it doesn't make sense to, yes.

I have found myself doing it a lot lately. Especially if I have one quotation nested within another.

And recently, somebody misunderstood my ellipsis.

Matt Эллен

11:09 PM

Is that because of the limitation of how you can express quotations?

I don't like nesting single quotes inside double quotes, or vice versa.

Matt Эллен

me either

luckily most of the quoting I do is at SE

so I can > and >> and so forth

So I might say ... this is an example of what I meant when I said "Is it wrong to use ellipses instead of quotation marks".

Matt Эллен

I would not understand your elipsis initially. I am quite tired though.

Oh, OK.

It seemed clear to me. But maybe it isn't. I shall desist forthwith.

user19161

11:13 PM

@DavidWallace Yes, it is wrong. Nobody uses ellipses to replace quotation marks.

user19161

Of course the ellipses could just be playing the ordinary role.

user19161

I want to say I am tired. I want to say ... I am tired.

@JasperLoy I often find myself as a subset of nobody.

user19161

Here, the ellipses represent a pause, not direct speech.

user19161

I want to say "I am tired". Here it is direct speech.

11:16 PM

Hmm, I could understand that if you said "I want to sleep ... I am tired". But when you say "I want to say ... I am tired", I can't see why I would interpret it as anything other than direct speech.

user19161

I want to say ... I am tired is a variation of I want to say that I am tired.

user19161

I want to say "I am tired" however means I feel like uttering those three words into your ears right now!

Unless it's part of a longer sentence, like "That's not what I want to say ... I am tired, not bored".

user19161

The above analysis is complete. We are done. QED.

@DavidWallace If an example follows, it's OK; if a literal quotation, no.

11:19 PM

@JasperLoy I disagree.

Because I wouldn't expect sequence of tenses to apply, like it would with indirect speech.

(1) He wanted to say ... I am waiting for the bus.

(2) He wanted to say ... he was waiting for the bus.

(3) He wanted to say "I am waiting for the bus".

(4) He wanted to say that he was waiting for the bus.

user19161

In informal writing one could use anything one wants. All hell breaks loose.

Clearly (3) and (4) mean the same. But does (1) or (2) mean the same as (3) and (4)?

user19161

@DavidWallace 3 and 4 are different to me.

I think (1) means the same as (3) and (4). Which means that we're dealing with direct speech.

@JasperLoy How so?

How would you convert (3) to indirect speech then?

user19161

@DavidWallace Again, the exact words are different from the concept itself.

user19161

11:24 PM

Well, we should qualify same or different here.

user19161

He said that he loved me. He said "I love you".

(3) means the same as (4). By uttering the words "I am waiting for the bus", he communicated that he was waiting for the bus.

user19161

In the first case, maybe he said "I really love you".

user19161

In the second case, he said exactly "I love you".

OK, so indirect speech always opens more possibilities. But there is always an "indirect" version of any "direct speech" sentence. Right?

user19161

11:26 PM

Hmm, I think so.

So the only way I can say 'He said "I love you" ' with indirect speech is to say 'He said that he loved me'. Right?

So the tenses sequent, as do the pronouns.

So, of my ellipsis-endowed sentences (1) and (2), which of them means the same as sentences (3) and (4)? I contend (1); and that therefore the ellipsis is marking direct speech, not indirect speech.

user19161

@DavidWallace I would interpret 1 and 2 as having the same meaning as the ellipsesless counterparts, but with a pause in thinking.

So (2) means the same as (3) and (4) to you? Interesting.

Anyway, I messed up. I said to someone "you could write ... blah blah blah". I expected them to write "blah blah blah", but they wrote "... blah blah blah" instead.

user19161

But then I don't really read fiction, maybe they use this kind of stuff a lot nowadays and it has become legitimate.

user19161

I almost never use the ellipsis myself. Chat is an exception.

11:31 PM

No, I think it is I who am insufficiently literate.

user19161

In fact, 1 and 2 just reads and sounds weird to me.

Matt Эллен

good night y'all.

Well, I guess that answers my question. No more inappropriate ellipses from me!

Good night, Matt.

user19161

@MattЭллен See you in your dreams.

11:48 PM

Hey, what is a good opposite of "benefit/advantage/boon"?

"Disadvantage" is so long, and you would have to use it along with "advantage", using two long words.

Downside?

Drawback

Problem

Impediment

Minus

Yes, that is a good one, drawback.

Hindrance.

Oh, hi, @Mah

Hiya.

11:50 PM

Yo!

Hi!

I'm going for a run in about an hour.

How does "benefits and drawbacks" sound?

Oh, I didn't know you ran?

Would you like to provide a fuller context?

Well, sort of. Going on the elliptical machine, actually.

"pros and cons"?

11:51 PM

It is about using one set of linguistics terms v. another.

Pros and cons is a good one.

The two go together.

That is too informal for me.

It's too yucky out for raining.

3

Short and balanced, but too informal.

Bah, rain.

…wow.

11:52 PM

@Mahnax I think you mean for running.

I'm not even going to fix that.

It looks nice as it is.

It's raining very hard here too.

We just have a lightish rain with a strongish wind with a coldish temperature.

My back yard does not drain well. It turns into a swamp during heavy rain.

Beh.

It was raining here too.

What has this world come to?

11:54 PM

@DavidWallace Eww.

I don't know how to fix this.

Maybe I could build up the ground in certain places, so that water drains off in the direction of the neighbouring properties.

We have a slanted back yard, so all the water just runs downhill into the neighbours' yard.

OK, I'm going to come and live with you!

Er, you'll have to discuss that with my parents.

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Oct '1212

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