« first day (2393 days earlier)      last day (2627 days later) » 

4:00 PM
@Secret but the cases this month aren't F3
 
Reading news primary students as well? that's something really wrong about the education system
 
In korea/hong kong/taiwan it is not unsual stay in school a lot longer than in western countries, right? Like until 20
 
@s.harp in Hong Kong secondary school ends at 18
whether they study in university is beyond me
@Secret you fled before they happened... right
 
I studied all the way up to F.5 and early F.6, but that was the last bunch of students in the old system
All these suicides happens some time after the new system come in force
 
@Secret 末代會考?
 
4:05 PM
@DHMO Yup
 
what did you do in F.7 lol
 
I was in unsw fundations during what should be F.7 if I were to be in HK
 
I see
 
The move to aust is a family decision
 
4:22 PM
@Secret why the hell are you still up?
 
1:22 in japan here
 
japan.. I see
 
remeber when I said I get back to you guys after the plane, that's where we went
I cannot do much topology for the following weeks though, cause I am reserving most of the remaining time for quanutm chemistry and theoretical physics
 
@Secret can a uncountable subset of P(N) have pairwise finite intersection?
 
wait what? All subsets of P(N) are countable. There are just uncountably many of them
 
4:26 PM
no, P(N) is an uncountable subset of P(N)
the elements of P(N) are countable :)
 
@Secret P(N) \ {{0}} is a proper subset of P(N) and is uncountable
 
O I see, we are talking about collections... Well for that, I need to think...
 
@Secret uncountable subsets of P(N) are usually out of my intuition... for example the chain...
 
@AlessandroCodenotti I know
 
4:31 PM
They can't have pairwise finite and bounded in cardinality by a constant intersection
 
@AlessandroCodenotti do you have anything interesting based on the fact that sono = io sono / loro sono?
 
"Ord" means Word in Swedish.
 
How about $(5\mathbb{N} \cup \{1,2,3,4\}) \cap (7\mathbb{N} \cup \{1,2,3,4\}=\{1,2,3,4\}$?
o wait, sorry
let me try again...
 
@MatsGranvik they even have the same origin lol
you know, Swedish is a Germanic language
 
jawoll!
 
4:36 PM
@DHMO there's no confusion usually since all adjectives and stuff have to agree with the subject
 
$(S_{\geq 5} \cup \{\{1,2,3,4\}\}) \cap (S_{[3,4]} \cup \{\{1,2,3,4\}\})=\{1,2,3,4\}$?

where $S_X$ is an uncountable proper subset picked from $\mathscr{P}(\mathbb{N})$ that is indexed by the interval $X$ (either as a dedekind cut set or an intersection of two dedekind cut sets.
 
@Secret you can't union a subset of P(N) with {1,2,3,4}
to form another subset of P(N)
and that isn't what I'm asking for anyway
 
Actually, what is pairwise finite intersection?
 
"pairwise finite intersection"
$\forall x,y \in S: |x \cap y| < |\Bbb N|$
 
O... for all x and y.... that's not easy to do by intuition....
 
4:42 PM
intuition is not a great tool when it comes to infinity
 
looks like we need to go back to the formalisms
 
but there is indeed an intuitive construction
@AlessandroCodenotti sei qui?
I'm thinking of a partition of {x in P(N):|x| = |N|} into |R| many sets
@AkivaWeinberger hola
 
Hey
What infinity stuff are you doing
 
@AkivaWeinberger I'm asking Secret to construct an uncountable subset of P(N) with pairwise finite intersection
 
@DHMO I think I got it
 
4:51 PM
@AkivaWeinberger quizas puedes decirme tu respuesta en espanol.... Secret es aun tentando el problema
 
O en una sala diferente?
Porque hay muchas símbolos y son lo mismo en cualquier idioma @DHMO
 
@AkivaWeinberger espera
@Secret are you still trying?
 
I think that will work. One possible construction is to pick $\mathfrak{c}$ many countable proper subsets of $\mathscr{P}(\mathbb{N})$ indiced by real intervals of the form [x,y], where x,y \in $(i, j]$ with i,j consecutive integers starting from 1. That is

$\{\forall x,y \in (\infty,1]|S_{[x,y]}\cup \{0\}\}$. Then for any two countable subsets indiced by consecutive intervals [i,i+1] and [i+1,i+2], the intersection is guarenteed to be the singleton i+1. If the pair are not consecutive intervals, then the intersection is guarenteed to be the singleton {0}
 
What's $S$
 
The intersection obtained by taking the countable set corresponding to the dedekind cut $S_x$ and the dedekind cut (but with the ordered relation reversed) $S_y$
 
5:03 PM
@Secret So is this $\Bbb Q$ instead of $\Bbb N$
 
@AkivaWeinberger It applies to $Bbb N$ also, due to the existence of a bijection, though the ordering will be different
But yeah, it is more straightforward construction in $Bbb Q$
actually wait, the total number of countable sets indiced by [x,y] is still countable (because x,y are both integers). Ok I need to think again...
 
> I wrote two real numbers on two different slips of paper. You choose one at random. You now need to decide whether the one you chose is the larger or the smaller. Can you have a strategy with a correct rate strictly greater than a half?
@AkivaWeinberger @Secret
 
@DHMO Do I know the probability distribution
 
@AkivaWeinberger of what?
 
Of how you chose the two random reals
 
5:12 PM
That isn't random
 
Xam
What's first: ring theory of group theory?
 
Group, I think?
 
@Xam depends on the definition of "first"
 
Xam
Hello @AkivaWeinberger why do you think group theory is first?
I mean, what would you teach/learn first?
 
I think books on abstract algebra usually have groups first, but I'm not sure
 
5:14 PM
Yeah they do
 
@Xam group theory requires one operation while ring theory requires two
 
Mostly
Rings are also groups with respect to one of their operations
 
ring inherits the axioms of group
 
Xam
Yeah, most algebra books have groups first, but e.g. Rotman starts with rings
 
There may be a reason to do rings first I've heard
The structure corresponds better to the integers
Like, you get more of that to look toward
 
5:15 PM
^
 
While in groups, you're more looking at matrix and permutation groups
 
Xam
Yeah, although ring also are groups, you can define without the word group
 
Which can be a bit trickier to latch on to at the beginning
 
@DHMO Can I say, if mine is positive I'll say it's higher and if it's negative I'll say it's lower
 
@AkivaWeinberger well you need to prove it
 
Xam
5:15 PM
@Daminark I agree with you
 
@DHMO I still don't know how you chose the reals!
 
Now, I know some group theory and no ring theory so I'm kind of speaking out of thin air
 
Xam
I find rings ---> integers and groups ---> permutations
 
@AkivaWeinberger arbitrarily
 
But it may be a good pedagogical reason
 
Xam
5:16 PM
I thing groups being related with fields and galois theory too
 
@DHMO What does that mean
 
@AkivaWeinberger according to my desire
you would need to find the pdf in my brain
 
So I need to find a strategy such that, no matter which reals you chose, I have a >50% chance of getting it right?
 
@AkivaWeinberger not really...
 
Then I don't understand the question
 
5:19 PM
some have 50%
some > 50%
 
Oh, OK
so my strategy from earlier should work
 
prove it
 
If both reals are the same sign, it's 50%
Otherwise it's >50%
 
interesting
I say that otherwise it's 100%
 
Oooh, I know that game :O
 
5:21 PM
100>50
 
@AkivaWeinberger your solution is much easier than the one here...
@AkivaWeinberger wait
the solution there is always > 50%
no matter what pair I choose
 
You may want to clarify the problem
A lot can depend on how the two numbers are chosen
but there exists a strategy such that you have >50% chance of winning regardless of how the numbers were chosen
 
@SteamyRoot yes
it's so unbelievable that I mixed it up
 
5:42 PM
Well... it's not so unbelievable when you realise the person cannot choose which of the two numbers he gives you
 
Hey :)

I have a little question:
Why is $(g,f) \mapsto g \circ f $ to $\{ f \in Map $ $\mathbb Q, \mathbb Q | f$ is bijective $\}$ associative?

In my logic:

$f \circ (g \circ h) \neq (f \circ g) \circ h$

because different function produce different values in different orders
ah, whait, I think I understand it now
 
@jublikon Versuche, die beiden Ausdrücke zu erweitern.
 
Changing the order of parentheses does not mean you change the order in which you apply the functions to some variable
 
Hey guys protip don't touch functional analysis until you know measure theory
 
uhhh, why?
 
5:54 PM
@Daminark why?
 
I did courses in both, but I don't think we needed any measure theory in FA
 
When you're only working with $\ell^p$ spaces while 95% of textbooks just do things for $L^p$, since the former is covered if you take $\mathbb{N}$ with the counting measure, it's really annoying
 
@DHMO also so ?

$f: W \rightarrow X$
$g: X \rightarrow Y$
$h: Y \rightarrow Z$

also $W \rightarrow (X \rightarrow Y \rightarrow Z) = W \rightarrow X \rightarrow Y \rightarrow Z = (W \rightarrow X \rightarrow Y ) \rightarrow Z$
 
@jublikon $(f\circ(g\circ h))(x)=f(g(h(x)))=((f\circ g)\circ h)(x)$ for all $x$
 
@AkivaWeinberger did you see my amendment?
 
5:57 PM
Yeah
 
Pretty sure the lecture notes on FA I had did things for both $\mathcal{l}^p$ and $L_p$
 
@AkivaWeinberger so do you have a solution?
 
I read the answer
that you linked to
 
@AkivaWeinberger alright
@jublikon Ich würde nicht Klammern auf diese Weise verwenden...
$W \to X \to Y \to Z$ meint mir nichts
 
Hi chat
 
6:00 PM
@Astyx bonjour
 
Salut
 
ich dachte, dass die zwei verschiedenen kompositionen von funktionen auf den selben wertebereich abbielden
 
@Daminark My FA lecture notes are apparently based on Conway and Pedersen
 
@jublikon aber wir sagen, dass $f \circ g$ ist $W \to Y$, nicht $W \to X \to Y$
 
so maybe you'll have more luck in those
 
6:01 PM
Tu parles Français ? @Sha
 
Un peu :P
 
@Astyx *français
 
mais pas tres bien. J'ai un ami qui parle francais
 
Salut @Astyx, mon jeune :D
 
@DHMO sûrement, je ne sais jamais
@Ted Salut !
 
6:02 PM
@Astyx t'as jamais su :o
 
À chaque fois que j'arrive ici je corromps la moitié des personnes actives sur le chat à parler français :p
@DHMO C'est une règle qui m'échappe tout le temps, en particulier parce que c'est différent en anglais
 
@Astyx d'accord
en chinois il n'y a pas majuscules lol
 
Enfin si j'y mettais un peu plus du mien j'imagine que je la retiendrais
Ni de minuscules tu me diras
 
@Astyx: Parce que tu es bien méchant.
 
Hahaha, il me semble plus 'elitair' de parler en français qu'en anglais :P Et j'aime pratiquer mon français
 
6:04 PM
@DHMO
 
@Ted C'est plus vraiment ma faute ... tu noteras que j'ai signalé ma présence en anglais !
 
okay
 
@Sha 'elitair' ?
 
@DHMO semble connaître beaucoup de langues. Je suis impressionné :P
 
@jublikon Verwende nur diesen Beweis:
8 mins ago, by Akiva Weinberger
@jublikon $(f\circ(g\circ h))(x)=f(g(h(x)))=((f\circ g)\circ h)(x)$ for all $x$
 
6:06 PM
@Astyx: elitist.
 
@Astyx Je ne sais pas... Tout semble plus important quand on le dit en français XD
 
Hi prof @TedShifrin
 
Hi @skull.
 
@DHMO das reicht schon ?
weil die abbildungen bijektiv sind
?
 
@TedShifrin je depende sur google translate pour mon allemand (pourtant que je connais un peu allemand), et chinois est ma langue maternelle
 
6:07 PM
Oui, et souvent tu traduis d'anglais en français :P
 
@Sha J'ai personnellement le sentiment inverse : tout me semble plus 'grandiose' en anglais
 
@TedShifrin mon francais est rompu, je sais, mais j'essaie de ne pas utiliser google translate
 
@DHMO: Il faut plutôt faire attention aux maths.
 
@jublikon was ist die ursprüngliche Frage?
 
warum das assoziativ ist
 
6:09 PM
@jublikon du meinst, warum $\circ$ assoziativ ist?
@TedShifrin tu veux dire, aux maths plutot que les langues?
 
@DHMO Oui, précisément.
 
im Prinzip wollte ich das jetzt nur bezogen auf die Aufgaben stellung wissen. Ich dachte, $\circ$ ist nur assoziativ, wenn die abbildungen bijektiv sind
sind sie das sonst auch ?
ne, oder?
 
@jublikon Gar nicht.
 
I guess I should share a good news about me here @TedShifrin (In English so as to reach a wider range of audience)
 
aber der beweis, den du repostet hast, reichte der so aus?
 
6:11 PM
hi, just woke up
 
@TedShifrin :o du sprichst deutsch
 
:35581890
 
Ja, ich habe deutsch auf der Universität studiert.
 
Hi chat
 
@Zach: What? No school?
 
6:11 PM
presidents day
 
@Zach Hi ! Have you changed your profile pic ?
 
mhm
 
@TedShifrin je suis bien impressionne
 
@Semiclassical Hi
 
@Astyx
 
6:12 PM
I take that as a yes ..?
 
mhm = yes
lol
The Shining was kind of fucked up
 
"kind of"
 
Well, it's not quite on the level of A Serbian Film yet
 
@jublikon was versuchst du beweisen?
 
@SteamyRoot Hi how are you ?
 
6:16 PM
nichts. Ich wollte nur verstehen, warum das so gilt. Das, was vorhin gezeigt wurde, hat mir nicht klar gemacht warum eine bijektive abbildung assoziativ sein soll
 
@Astyx Ohi
Doing okay, finally some more time for research :D
 
Cool !
 
@jublikon wir sagen, das eine Funktion bijektive ist, und einer Verknüpfung assoziativ ist...
$\circ$ ist sicherlich nicht bijektiv.
 
ja okay, danke dir
 
@jublikon Habe ich dein Problem gelöst?
 
6:22 PM
If $a_1,a_2,\dots,a_n$ are elements of a group $G$, $n\geq 2$, then we define the product $a_1a_2\cdots a_n$ with complete induction to $n$ with
\begin{align}
a_1a_2&=\text{product of $a_1$ and $a_2$ in the group}& (n=2),\\
a_1a_2\cdots a_n&=(a_1a_2\cdots a_{n-1})\cdot a_n& (n>2).
\end{align}
For example: $abcde=(((ab)c)d)e)$. With complete induction to $n$ we can deduce easily from the associate law that
\begin{align}
(a_1a_2\cdots a_k)\cdot(a_{k+1}\cdots a_n)=a_1a_2\cdots a_n&&(1\leq k\leq n-1).
What was the induction hypothesis here? Was it for some $n>2$, we have that for all $k\leq n$,
$a_1a_2\cdots a_k=(a_1a_2\cdots a_{k-1})a_k$? Do I have to say the following then:
Consider $a_1a_2\cdots a_k$ and $a_{k+1}$. If we multiply these two, we can write $(a_1a_2\cdots a_k)a_{k+1}$. Apply the induction hypothesis, and we're there. Is that's what's happening? Or am I misinterpreting something?
 
@DHMO, naja, nicht ganz. warum ist denn nun eine bijektive funktion unter einer verknüfung assoziativ?
 
@jublikon ich verstehe das nicht
 
Dodo!!!
 
salut Ted
 
einer assoziativ verknupfung habe die gleiche Domain und Bereich
@TedShifrin ?
 
6:28 PM
@DHMO, ich weiß nicht, wie ich meine Frage anders formulieren soll...
ich frage einfach einen Studienkameraden
trotzdem vielen Dank!!
 
@jublikon $\circ$ ist immer assoziativ
 
@LeGrandDODOM Salut
 
$f: X \to Y$ kann bijektiv sein
darum ich verstehe nicht deine Frage...
 
@Ted I tried not to make this look too much like a mugshot
but i don't know where else to take the picture
 
Instead it's the "looking down my glasses" look @Zach :P
 
6:31 PM
these glasses are actually broken
i'm getting new ones in a bit
one side of them is bent
 
@TedShifrin wie ist mein deutsch...
 
because someone decided to slap me out of rage (looks upstairs at brother)
 
@DHMO the order you place words in, is very unnatural
 
@SteamyRoot heh... bitte, lehre mich
 
"darum verstehe ich deine Frage nicht"
 
6:34 PM
@SteamyRoot ich weiss nicht, wenn ich die Worten umkehren muss
 
Yeah, sadly I don't really know the rules either
I just know how it is in Dutch, and I know it's the same in German :P
 
aber du sprichst deutsch...
 
So I do it more on "feeling"
 
@SteamyRoot You're Dutch?
 
oh, German isn't an official language in Belgium
 
6:36 PM
Belgian
It is, actually
 
umkehren wir die Worten hinter "aber"?
 
@Ted would say manifolds is a hard concept ? I've taken a cursory glance and the transition maps stuff with intersections seems tricky
 
But only, like, 76000 out of the 11 million Belgians live in the part where German is considered the "first language"
 
@SteamyRoot so your first language is Dutch?
 
That sentence was correct
 
6:37 PM
Not tricky at all, Dodo. Just notation to which you must adapt.
 
Changing the order would make it sound like a question
 
@SteamyRoot no, I meant do we invert the words after "aber"
 
Yeah, my first language is Dutch. "Officially" I guess French should be my second and German my third...
What do you mean with invert then?
 
misconception: there's a "third" language
 
"aber du sprichst deutsch..." was fine
 
6:40 PM
@SteamyRoot oh, I did't know I used that word :p
 
"aber sprichst du deutsch..." would likely be interpreted as the question "But, do you speak German?"
 
ich weiss nicht, dass ich das Wort gespricht habe
@SteamyRoot so after "darum" we need to invert the words...
but after "aber" we do not...
 
Yup...
 
German... warum...
 
Also, just like you "speak" a language but you "say" a word
 
6:41 PM
gespricht
gesprochen
 
You have the difference between sprichen and sagen
 
@LeGrandDODOM thanks
@TedShifrin du hast deutsch studiert. Wie bendenkst du?
 
errr
sprechen
 
Huh? @DHMO
 
Yeah, in terms of actual knowledge of the languages, I'd say Dutch > English > French > Latin > German > Greek for me
So don't count on my German too much
 
6:42 PM
sprechen auf deutsch, nicht sprichen :P
 
@TedShifrin wenn mussen wir die Worten umkehren...
@SteamyRoot heh, Latin > German
 
(my girlfriend is Austrian, so I also pick up these weird Viennese things)
Yeah, it's sad to say, but I really think it's the case :/
 
puedo hablar un poco en español
 
@ZachHauk no se si mi espanol es mejor que mi frances, o mi frances es mejor que mi espanol...
 
Is anyone willing to help me with a basic question on group theory? It's the last thing I have to understand, and then I've finished my stuff. I posted it here math.stackexchange.com/questions/2155024/… I don't understand why they felt the need to define the order of the brackets, when the operation of a group is associative anyways? So the brackets can move relatively freely anyways?
 
6:46 PM
tuvimos que aprender en la escuela (pero podrias tomar Francés)
 
@ZachHauk entonces toda la gente tuvo que eligir un idioma?
 
@DHMO podrias tomar Mandarin tambien
 
@Sha To me, it just seems that they're proving how associativity works in more general cases
I mean, in general, you only assume that (ab)c = a(bc)
 
Ahh.. right
 
si, pero cuando tienes 16 años no tienes que tomarlo
 
6:48 PM
okay thanks, that makes sense!
 
@ZachHauk entonces por cuantos anos estudiaste espanol?
 
@DHMO tres anos, y yo probablemente tomaria cuatro mas
 
@SteamyRoot But still, why would you need that?
Given any $k\in\mathbb N$
we can simply apply the associate law however we want
and we'd get $abcde=(((ab)c)d)e$ (for example)
 
@ZachHauk por que eligiste espanol en lugar de frances?
 
we didn't need their generalisation in the first place, right?
 
6:53 PM
@DHMO no supe que podemos tomarlo
 
@ZachHauk :o
 
@ShaVuklia: It's one of those pedantic induction arguments. Associativity applies specifically to three, not to $n$, factors.
 
@ZachHauk de donde eres?
 
los EEUU
 
Ahh, because we would need to show $n$ steps actually, and this way we can show it in one step? (or less than $n$)
 
6:55 PM
@ShaVuklia $abcde$ is not defined before you prove that association works in general
 
@ShaVuklia: In real life, no one bothers to show that an $n$-fold product is well-defined. Once you do this exercise, you'll never bother again.
 
@ZachHauk supongo que espanol seria mas util, porque hay mucha gente en los EEUU que habla espanol
 
In your question, first they say that they'll define the product of $n$ things as "multiply the first two" and repeat
then they show that, if you do it any other way, you still get the same thing
The $n = 3$ case is exactly the law of associativity
 
@DHMO hay poco gente que habla frances
 
@ZachHauk en los EEUU, si
 
6:57 PM
@SteamyRoot So in the first part they define a sort of 'nested' associativity, and then in the second part they show that associativity works in general?
 
Mandarin es tambien util, porque un millardo de gente lo habla
 
@ZachHauk pero mandarin es muy diferente que ingles o espanol o frances
 
@DHMO tienes razon.
 
@Sha they don't define any associativity at all in the first part
 
hay muchos cognados de espanol en ingles
 
6:59 PM
cantones es mi lengua materna... @ZachHauk
 
They just give meaning to the product of $n$ elements of a group
 

« first day (2393 days earlier)      last day (2627 days later) »