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2:00 PM
Hi @Balarka
 
hi @Remember
 
Hi @TedShifrin
 
ted, are you not going to miss teaching?
 
probably so, @abel
but for many reasons I'd prefer not to continue until I become incompetent or longer, which some people do do ...
 
@Ted answered a linear algebra question for the first time !!!!!
 
2:02 PM
I've answered lots of linear algebra questions ...
 
he means he answered a lin alg question, @Ted
 
ohhhhh
I honestly didn't read it that way.
 
No worries
 
Congratulations, @remember.
I believe in subjects for my verbs? :D
 
Well it was a fairly easy question
 
2:04 PM
I know @Balarka doesn't believe in grammar, but ...
 
i looked at you differential geometry notes. they look great. i am a teacher too. i love to be in the classroom with the kids. but the administration is horrible.
 
@Balarka are you fine after the earthquake??
 
no, my brain is addled.
 
At the university level, I haven't had so much problem with administration (I was associate department head for 8 years). But I find that I can no longer motivate students to excel the way I could in past years.
More than usual, @Balarka?
 
Did you feel the shocks we didnt have any shocks over here in Bangalore@Balarka
 
2:06 PM
@TedShifrin that's not a nice thing to say :p
but yeah, way more than usual :p
i guess.
 
i wish you a happy and pleasant retirement from organized teaching.
 
thanks, @abel ... It's close to 40 years, all told.
 
The earthquake was really bad i dont want anymore shocks to come!!!! :(
 
Maybe more, depending on how I count.
 
@TedShifrin How old are you Ted?
 
2:08 PM
lol
 
@Incurrence: You should stick to math :D ... 62
 
Still young
 
My parents are both 63 wowza
And I am sure you are in much better health haha
 
I'm way older than the parents of most of my students, @Incurrence
 
incurrence, you are doing really well. it is nice to see so many young people interested and competent in math. i almost feel like i want to learn algebraic topology!
 
2:09 PM
well, I've had cancer and two major heart surgeries ... but I hope so.
@abel: If you know multivariable calculus/analysis, I personally recommend some differential topology. It's super.
 
ii teach calculus ted.
 
I know, @abel
 
I am going to email you veery soon, @Ted (for you-know-what).
 
@abel Thanks xD. I am doing well in my classes now, but I felt awful at math only a few months ago
 
But the power of the inverse function theorem is absolutely amazing ... truly deep theorems that undergraduates can follow, rather than needing second-semester algebraic topology.
 
2:10 PM
I have been doing 5-6hrs a day for ~2months
 
that is how it is. once you get the hang of it, you want more.
 
@TedShifrin few days ago my brother told me about an amazing new topic in mathematics . Incidence combinatorics!!!!!!!! in this we use algebraic topology and algebraic geometry to solve combinatoric problems ......Feels so amazing
 
Yeah, there are lots of overlaps of advanced topology, representation theory, and combinatorics.
 
No good algebraic topology questions on the main. I guess I'll just go back and do some linear algebra.
 
Great!!!!!!!!
I wish you could go to mathoverflow and answer as many questions you want @BalarkaSen
 
2:13 PM
I have loads to learn before that.
 
Yup.........
 
The little I know is just basic algebraic topology, @Remember
 
@TedShifrin Ted did I ask you for help on my crazy problem?
 
All of Hatcher is just basic algebraic topology.
 
On nilpotent groups @Ted
From the last assignment, but I really want to learn it before it compounds my lack of knowledge
 
2:14 PM
did you do that permutation-matrices-cetralizes-diagonal-matrices problem?
 
@BalarkaSen Roughly, but I haven't cleaned it up yet. Being tired hurts my permutation matrix understanding lol
 
@Balarka i had this very weird question to ask i dont understand when you and mike solve algebraic topology question why do you draw those weird shapes??
 
'cause we like to draw.
 
Artist @BalarkaSen
 
yesterday, by Incurrence
7 hours ago, by Incurrence
3 hours ago, by Incurrence
11 hours ago, by Incurrence
I have a group $G$ defined inductively $G^0$ is the group of upper triangular matrices, with $1$'s on the diagonal, and $G^1 = [G^0,G^0], G^{i+1}=[G^0,G^i]$
$G=G^0$
I want to prove $G^n=\{1\}$ for some $n$
 
2:17 PM
@Incurrence $PA$ is messes up the diagonal of $A$ by permuting rows. $(PA)P^{-1}$ messes up the diagonal of $PA$ by permuting columns. Show that these messes cancel out.
 
That's sort of standard, @Incurrence. I haven't thought about it in years. But can't you see that each step you take puts another "superdiagonal" of zeroes in there?
 
@TedShifrin I can see exactly that haha
 
Then you're done, by induction.
 
@TedShifrin ...
@TedShifrin That's so not rigorous haha
@TedShifrin When I build $G^1$ it gets really messy already
 
Well, have you shown that the first superdiagonal becomes 0 for $G^1$?
 
2:19 PM
Yep
 
Then you should be able to show analogously that if the first $k$ superdiagonals are 0, then the commutator has $k+1$ superdiagonals 0.
 
It's messy, but it happened(by actually computing arbitrary matrices
 
You should just pick a (general) entry on that superdiagonal and compute it.
 
Hmmm
Well it is really messy, ummm, one sec, I'll show you what I have drawn yesterday or the day before
 
Noooo ... it's not messy :)
I just sat down and did it to be sure.
 
2:22 PM
what
whattt
You did ABA^{-1}B^{-1} that quickly?
 
I'm obnoxious that way :P
 
For $n\times n$?
 
Oh, crap. I did matrix commutator.
Are you sure you're doing the right thing?
Which derived series are we doing? I'm sorry.
 
Yeah, they are groups
 
I'm doing the wrong thing.
OK, let me think again. Sorry.
 
2:23 PM
Oh okay haha, well that makes me feel a little better
Don't be sorry xD
I have failed on this for literally 2 weeks
 
Oh, interesting. It turns into the same computation.
 
What's the matrix commutator?
 
$AB-BA$
 
Oh that's the lie commutator aswell I think
 
That's the commutator on the lie algebra level.
 
2:26 PM
Are you just ignoring all the entries like that?
 
OK, cool, @Incurrence. So that's the right first computation. Now, inductively, the same thing will happen if you have a few superdiagonals of 0s.
 
You did this @Incurrence^
 
Think about the inverse of a matrix with $1$'s on the diagonal and $0$'s in the first $k$ superdiagonals.
 
@TedShifrin Ok so I have base step, and then assume it works for $k$ steps, and then do the $k+1$ step like actual induction? or..?
@TedShifrin Well I would guess its first nonzero diagonal is just all negative entries
in the inverse
(from playing around before)
 
Yup, and so the computation is totally the same, but you get one more superdiagonal of 0s.
 
2:29 PM
I have never applied inductivity in such a way, so I am not sure how to do it
 
Suppose $A$ and $B$ have $1$'s on the diagonal and the first $k-1$ superdiagonals are $0$. Prove that the commutator has $k$ superdiagonals of $0$.
 
I was looking up prices of whiteboards and they are so expensive
 
Mine is not @ᴇʏᴇs
 
cheaper than blackboards, though, mr eyeglasses ... of course, most blackboards today are synthetic and terrible.
 
I'm always concerned for professors about inhaling chalk dust over all those years
 
2:31 PM
But there is a different feeling when you use chalkboards
 
@ᴇʏᴇs heh
 
Hi @Saw
 
the colored soot from the markers is probably worse, mr eyeglasses
 
you feel you have become a professor
 
heya @Sawarnik
 
2:32 PM
Its toluene@TedShifrin really horrific chemical
 
@TedShifrin It would seem fine if you don't sniff the markers but for chalk I always see the particulates fly everywhere in the air
 
@ᴇʏᴇs hi ... did you hear of the nepal earthquake?
 
really, @Remember? I have horrid recollections of toluene from high school chemistry labs.
 
@Saw Yes I did
 
@TedShifrin Hi @Ted :)
 
2:32 PM
hi @Sawarnik
 
when I had whiteboards in my office (before I had blackboards put in), there was the black soot everywhere, plus colored soots ...
 
@TedShifrin its written behind my marker
@ᴇʏᴇs the earthquake was really deadly
 
I can hold 6 or 7 colors of chalk in my hand. I can't hold more than two or three colors of markers. Plus they dry out. Ugh.
 
@TedShifrin since it's $G^{k+1}=[G,G^k]$ should $A$ and $B$ really have $k-1$ diagonals of $0$?
 
@Sawarnik we didnt feel any shocks here
 
2:34 PM
@Rememberme where were you?
 
Bangalore
 
Or sorry I didn't mean to use $k$ again there, but
 
We had to run out of our homes in Patna.
 
I mean the left group is $G^0$
 
Bihar it was hurt badly
 
2:34 PM
The tremors were very clear.
 
Oh, darn, @Incurrence. Did I screw up the definition again? There are different kinds of these derived series. I was doing $[G^k,G^k]$.
 
So $A$ should have no $0$ super diagonal, and
 
@Sawarnik were there any more shocks after the main one
i mean today
 
I think the computation will be the same though
 
Sure.
Infact, today the epicenter was closer to Bihar.
 
2:35 PM
There were shocks even today!!!!!!
 
So we felt even bigger tremor actually.
 
I'll just give it a go with the same sort of logic
 
Is there any idea when it will stop
 
Yeah, ok, @Incurrence, it works out fine. Just write it out.
 
We didnt feel anything because Karnataka is a not an earthquake prone area @Sawarnik
 
2:37 PM
Hope you'll be ok, @Sawarnik.
 
Earthquakes are really horrific
 
California has had some bad ones, too ... As Mommy Nature gets angrier and angrier, more bad storms, more droughts, and more earthquakes ... :(
4
 
Droughts are less but earthquakes and tornadoes are real frequent
 
@TedShifrin We are ok :) .. but 200 kms north there has been some great devastation.
 
2:39 PM
I'm so sorry, @Sawarnik.
 
@Rememberme No idea. But it would now .. no major quakes now.
 
it has stopped so no more for few years
 
I am pretty sure someone already asked why you only can construct 14 sets by taking closure and complement, does anyone have a link for me ?
 
oh, that's a fun thing to work out, @Dominic.
 
@Rememberme Patna is in south bihar and relatively well built ... the north part was more unlucky ... very undeveloped, had a tropical storm just 2 days ago and then two quakes in short time.
 
2:41 PM
@TedShifrin yeah and i know that the 14 is strict, as there is a subset of the reals such that you really get 14 different sets
 
@Ted i was thinking about a question since many days can i represent a group geometrically
 
sure, @Dominic ... There are lots of examples, but the same sorts of ideas.
 
@Rememberme Are you studying in some college?
 
@Sawarnik we were safe because we are in the south so most of the stuff dosent reach here
 
@Rememberme :)
 
2:42 PM
No @Sawarnik i am in 10 standard
 
@Rememberme Wow .. me too.
 
great!!!!!
so @Ted do you think i represent groups geometrically??i think that would make a good question on main
 
Hmmm the first non-zero entry of the product $AB$, what will the elements look like, I can't line them up haha
 
You need to make it very specific, @Remember. A lot of this is well understood.
 
Looks like just $1*b_{11}$
 
2:44 PM
You need to label the entries of $A$ (in $G$) and then the first nonzero entry of $B$, @Incurrence.
 
@Rememberme Have you given the RMOs?
 
so how will i represent groups geometrically in a space lets say.....@Ted is this fine?
@Sawarnik my mom dad want me to be a doc so i think i will this year
 
I just labelled then in reference to their existence(what I mean is, I started the count on when they started to exist) oh I just realised this is stupid as hell, but I'll show you the picture for a chuckle
 
but you need to bookkeep, @Incurrence. Stars won't do with the ones that matter.
 
How do click these pics @Incurrence
 
2:48 PM
@Rememberme What do you mean?
 
@TedShifrin well the example is the Union of a convergent sequence without it Limit (here $\{\frac{1}{n} : n \in \mathbb{N}\}$) and some open Intervall minus one Point, a singleton, a closed set and some set such that both the set and its complement is dense in some intervall
 
@Rememberme I have a camera
 
so doesnt it take time to get it from the camera upload them and then post them on chat
 
@TedShifrin I can't star them out? Well as long as I take care of the entries that will go to $0$ I can star that right?
 
but you are doing it so quickly
 
2:49 PM
yes, @Incurr
 
@Rememberme Well I click picture, and plug it in, and use snipping tool and then upload
 
pretty quick
 
@TedShifrin which still doesn't give me an idea how to prove, that 14 is in fact a bound
 
no, that takes some explicit formulas and patterns.
 
hey guys
 
2:52 PM
@Rememberme Before you ask you question, you should do some research to make you question more specific, also you might want to consider restricting to classes of group you are actually interested in (like, maybe finite groups, or whatever). here and here are some places to start.
 
hi JC
 
Hello @DominicMichaelis
Are you familiar with graph theory?
 
@evinda I know some Basics
 
@DominicMichaelis That is my question:
1
Q: The graph has an Euler tour iff in-degree($v$)=out-degree($v$)

evindaI am looking at the proof that $G$ has an Euler tour iff in-degree($v$)=out-degree($v$), that I found at this site: www.cs.duke.edu/courses/fall09/cps230/hws/hw3/headsol.pdf (Problem 2) A simple cycle is a path in a graph that starts and ends at the same vertex without passing through the same ...

 
@TedShifrin I don't think it will work
@TedShifrin $A^{-1}$ is going to be absolutely crazy that far in
 
2:58 PM
I believe it works fine, @Incurr
 
It'll have n-k products or something
 
I'll work it out later.
 
Because only the first diagonal have easy inverses (just the negative)
 
@evinda that Theorem doesn't Sound that spectacular, some example for some complex circle that isn't s simple one is going from 2 to 1 to 2 to 3 and back to 2
and if your graph is a complex circle it surely must be connected to be an euler tour
if there is no complex circle reaching all Points, it can't be euler
and for the sake of easiness you say you take the longest simple circle in the complex one and this one doesn't pass all Vertices because if it would do, this cycle would be an euler tour
sorry messed up circle and cycle :D
 
@DominicMichaelis So you mean that we have something like that?
 
3:10 PM
@evinda yes exactly, the decompisition is just like having one cycle and making some Loops while Walking that cycle
 
Thanks for your help @Ted
 
@DominicMichaelis So at the first part do we consider the Euler tour as complex cycle and use only the fact that we can decompose a complex cycle to a set of simple cycles and for simple cycles it holds that in-degree(v)=out-degree(v) for all vertices v?
 
Nice @DominicMichaelis Could you maybe also explain me the second part?
 
i am writing an answer right now
 
3:24 PM
Ok :) @DominicMichaelis
 
posted it
you got the wrong concept, that G-C should be some complex cycle
@evinda
 
@DominicMichaelis I will read your answer and I will tell you if I have understood it.. :)
 
3:41 PM
@Incurrence: Here's what you should prove as a lemma. If the first $k$ diagonals of $C$ and $D$ agree, then so do the first $k$ diagonals of $C^{-1}$ and $D^{-1}$.
Apply this with $C=AB$ and $D=BA$.
 
Just a bit of beauty ... (to share)
BBL
 
3:55 PM
@DominicMichaelis Could you explain me why from the fact that the graph is connected we deduce that there must be some complex cycle which passes trough every vertex?
 
@Rememberme Had a fantastic news :D ... schools closed till Tuesday.
 
I dont have schools Holidays
 
But I have yay :D
 
@evinda the graph is connected and in and out degrees coincide
but the arguement also works if i don't say the graph is connected
 
Great ...is everything fine now You didnt have any shocks today right @Sawarnik
 
4:01 PM
@DominicMichaelis So always when we have a graph and it holds that in-degree(v)=out-degree(v) for all the vertices, does this mean that there is a complex cycle that contains all the vertices?
 
@evinda nope sry, I mean my arguement works, even if the complex cycle doesn't traverse each vertex
 
What does it have to hold so that the complex cycle traverses each vertex? I am little confused right now... @DominicMichaelis
 
@evinda if your graph is connected and in degree = outdegree you get some complex cycle traversing each vertex
 
@DominicMichaelis A ok.. and why does this hold?
 
@evinda the proof is similar to the second part of your proof, but you may ignore that every vertex is traversed, that is uninteresting for the proof
 
4:11 PM
@DominicMichaelis Could you explain me further this part of the proof?

But if those degrees aren't all $0$ we could add some cycle to $C$ which would result in some complex cycle with more edges, which is some contradiction to our assumption, that $C$ does have the most edges.
 
well if the degrees aren't all zero, there must be some complex cycle in $G-C$
such that one of the traversed Vertices coincide with a vertex traversed by $C$
if we put together the two cycles we get again a complex cycle with more edges
 
guten morgen !
 
@DominicMichaelis I am a little confused now.. G is the graph with the set of vertices V and the set of edges E, right? And we said that C is a complex cycle which passes trough every vertex, right? So will G' contain any vertices?
 
oh i see, for me the graph $G-C$ does have the same Vertices as $G$ but only the edges which are in $G$ but not in $C$
 
4:29 PM
@DominicMichaelis So do we want to show that G-C doesn't contain any edge?
 
@evinda yes if G-C doesn't have any edge, C was an euler tour
 
I learned to plot 0-1 polynomial roots in the complex plane. It resembles a "C" as in complex doesn't it?
 
@DominicMichaelis A ok.. You said that: But if those degrees aren't all 0 we could add some cycle to C .
Why would we know that G-C would contain a cycle?
 
well because we can tart somewhere and use that in degree equals out degree
so if we go to some vertix we can always go farer
till we are at the starting Point again
 
@MatsGranvik what do you mean "0-1 polynomial roots"
 
4:40 PM
@JC574 I mean a polynomial with coefficients equal to either 0 or 1.
or both
 
cool!
can you sketch 0-1-2 for us? what happens then?
or introduce another variable and get a 3d plot
I wonder what happens
 
@JC574 I don't think I can do that with my computer. Too many combinations to list for the polynomials in that case.
 
what degree did you go up to?
 
@JC574 degree 10
 
nice
does it take long to run?
 
4:44 PM
(*Mathematica start*)
nn = 10
a = Table[1, {n, 1, nn}];
nn = Length[a];
b = Flatten[
Table[Permutations[
Table[Table[If[n >= k, a[[n - k + 1]], 0], {k, 1, nn}], {n, 0,
nn}][[i]]], {i, 1, nn + 1}], 1];
data = Flatten[
Table[x /.
N[Solve[Total[Transpose[Transpose[b]*x^(Range[nn] - 1)][[i]]] ==
0, x]], {i, 1, Length[b]}]];
p = ListPlot[{Re[#], Im[#]} & /@ data, AxesOrigin -> {0, 0},
PlotRange -> {{-2, 2}, {-2, 2}}, ImagePadding -> 40,
AspectRatio -> 1, Frame -> True,
FrameLabel -> {{Im, None}, {Re, "complex plane"}},
 
@MatsGranvik There's a great thread about that:
232
Q: Why do roots of polynomials tend to have absolute value close to 1?

Andrej BauerWhile playing around with Mathematica I noticed that most polynomials with real coefficients seem to have most complex zeroes very near the unit circle. For instance, if we plot all the roots of a polynomial of degree 300 with coefficients chosen randomly from the interval $[27, 42]$, we get some...

 
@DominicMichaelis I also have an other question. There is this proposition:
Since each edge in a complex cycle, and therefore in an Euler tour, is part of one or more simple cycles it will have in-degree(v)=out-degree(v).

How can an edge be a part of more than one simle cycles? Wouldn't that mean that we pass at an edge more than once?
 
@b_jonas I remember now that I have seen that question.
 
Is a “connected Lie group” defined as simply a Lie group that is connected as a topological space? And does “groupe de Lie connexe” in French mean the same?
 
oh it should be eachy vertex
there is nothing like the degree of some eady
edge *
 
4:55 PM
can someone take a look at something for me?
math.stackexchange.com/q/371941/23285 this question seems impossible to answer
 
@DavidWheeler It looks like that question has been answered
 
It looks like a hint
 
@JC574 yes, a long time ago-but I believe the answers are, in fact, in error, as no such group can exist.
 
5:17 PM
@DominicMichaelis I think that I have understood it but I will think about it again...
I also want to describe an algorithm that runs in time O(E) and finds an Euler tour
of G, if it exists. (Hint: Merge edge-disjoint cycles.)
If we apply DFS, we will get a set of cycles formed by disjoint sets of edges, right? But how can we know if it holds that in-degree(v)=out-degree(v), for all vertices in V?
 
I think it should be possible to do it in O(n log(n))
 
You mean that it isn't possible in O(E)? :/ @DominicMichaelis
 
oh i thought of Vertices not of edges
are the edges sorted ?
 
@DominicMichaelis It isn't given such an information
 
well if it is O(E) you can't do that much ;)
 
5:32 PM
@DominicMichaelis If we apply DFS, is there a way to determine if it holds that in-degree(v)=out-degree(v) ?
 
what running time does DFS have ;)
 
@DominicMichaelis The complexity of DFS is $O(|E|+|V|)$, but it is also $O(|E|)$. Indeed, DFS explores only the connected component to which the starting vertex belongs, and in a connected graph $|V|\le |E|+1$ (equality holds for a tree). Therefore, $O(|V|+|E|)=O(|E|)$.
 
the Thing is you don't care that much about the in and out degrees
 
So you mean we determine it in an other way, using DFS?
Or that we shouldn't apply DFS?
 
i think you make something like DFS but sorting out cycles as soon as you get them
 
5:39 PM
@DominicMichaelis How can we sort out the cycles?
 
normally you check if the vertex you reach is already in it
 
Is a diagonal matrix already in RCF?
 
and if it is already in you can Close your cycle and use DFS again on G- cycle
 
6:11 PM
@DominicMichaelis So do we have to do something like that? pastebin.com/3zSPX80J
 
6:23 PM
Ok, it seems the answer to my question is yes.
 
6:47 PM
Hi, buddies, anybody can solve this? math.stackexchange.com/questions/1253004/…
 
7:16 PM
@MatsGranvik you're essentially reproducing bits of this.
 
7:39 PM
@DavidWheeler Did you check the quaternion group (I didnt check but that is what it looks like)
 
@MikeMiller I think I saw a question on MSE that asks to show that existence of the Mayer-Vietoris long exact sequence implies homology excision. I don't think this is true, but I don't know of such a homology theory which satisfies the MV-sequence but not the exicison axiom.
 
read something on MO about this a while back
let me find it for you
see here
bottom answer looks like it might say something interesting, but i'm not taking the time to read it right now
 
8:07 PM
it certainly seems promising
 
@DavidWheeler Nevermind, there are too many different squares
 
@DiscipleofBarney yes, I think the problem must have a typo, somewhere.
 
@DavidWheeler Think you are right, there is no such group
The ones you mention are the only non abelian groups of that order
 
8:34 PM
The question popped up on another forum, and the poster used the stackexchange question as "proof" he didn't mis-type his question.
 
Haha, well math stack is never wrong...
 
Oh, of course not!
 
8:49 PM
Hello!! Is someone of you familiar with the Ackermann's function??
 
Hi all. It's good to see you all still here even though I haven't been in quite some time. :D
I wonder if anyone can tell me if 'expected value' always means "over the long term"?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:03 PM
@Jeff: Expected value is not steady state. It's the average value, weighted by appropriate probabilities.
 
Hey Ted
I think I solved that problem
 
hi @JC574
 
the one ages ago
 
oh, good :)
 
I read a Lemma in Hartshorne
 
10:05 PM
Well, I knew how to solve it, too, using stuff you apparently didn't know until the next part of the problem :P
 
@Ted: I don't quite understand. Here is the context. Q: 5 balls will be distributed into 4 labeled boxes (equal probability of going into each box). What is the expected value of number of balls in boxes A and B?
 
haha
 
@Ted Answer: 2.5 (but you can't get 0.5 of a ball into a box, no matter how big it is)
 
can you help me understand this lemma a bit?
It doesn't seem complicated
 
It's just the weighted average, @Jeff, but since all four boxes are equally likely, if you perform the experiment lots of times, on average there will be 5/4 balls in any particular box.
 
10:07 PM
Let $D$ be a divisor on a curve $X$. If $l(D) \neq 0$ and $\deg D = 0$, then $D \sim 0$
 
Expected value, or average, is rarely an integer when you're averaging integers. Think about test averages in a course.
Oh, right, I was using the contrapositive of that originally, @JC574.
 
yes
 
@Ted But you can have half a point (that's my usual score! :D). You can't have half a ball.
 
the contrapositive is what i used, oh
 
You can have fractional balls just as much as you can have fractional points, @Jeff. :P
or fractional eggs or fractional wins.
 
10:08 PM
@Ted but I think you're saying the answer is 2.5. In other words, 'expected value' always means "over the long haul".
 
Right, @Jeff, it's the average of all possible outcomes, weighted by their probabilities. You can think of that as the expected average if you repeat the experiment a lot of independent times.
 
So the proof of this lemma says if $deg D = 0$ then $D$ is linearly equivalent to an effective divisor of degree $0$
 
@Ted Great, just what I wanted to know. But now I'm curious: What did you mean by "Expected value is not steady state."
 
your original statement made it sound like steady state (over the long term). I guess I wasn't sure you were interpreting that right.
It's not the result you expect to see if you repeat many times ... it's the average result if you repeat many times.
@JC574, let me think about how to explain.
 
cheers @TedShifrin
 
10:11 PM
Oh, I see. Thanks, @Ted.
(This chat room is great!)
 
Because $l(D)>0$ that follows, @JC574, right?
@Jeff: Sometimes that's a matter of opinion :P
$L(D)$ is what vector space, @JC574?
 
yeah I think there's something obvious missing here in my understanding
It's the space of meromorphic $f$ such that $(f)+D \ge 0 $
 
@Ted: Ha ha. Well, I've always had good use of this room. (Much better than the C++ programming room.)
 
And a divisor $\ge 0$ is effective, @JC574. To say $D+(f) = D'$ is to say $D$ and $D'$ are linearly equivalent.
I haven't inhabited any other rooms, @Jeff.
 
AH
that's so obvious now you've pointed it out
thanks!
 
10:15 PM
@JC574: Occasionally I serve a useful purpose :P
 
ugh
 
ugh?
 
@TedShifrin Well, there's only 24 hours in a day :D
 
keep missing things
you're brilliant @TedShifrin, thanks for all the help
 
hardly, @JC574, but glad I could help.
 
10:20 PM
so the contrapositive of that lemma gives $l(K-D) = 0$
and then we just get $l(D) = 2$ straight from Riemann-Roch
 
right ... that's what I tried to do originally ... then I went for the geometry of the canonical curve.
yup @JC574
 
I like this Hartshorne book
sweet
ok I'm off
 
It's very algebraic and formal. Once you know a lot, it's a good resource.
Night, @JC574
 
night! thanks again for explaining that
 
Sure thing.
Dinnertime for me.
 
10:34 PM
Hi, any people can find reference to me on this? math.stackexchange.com/questions/1253004/…
 
10:46 PM
@DanielFischer Hi!!! Could we maybe find a tighter upper bound of the modified algorithm of DFS: stackoverflow.com/questions/29871890/… ?
 
@DanielFischer - Are you familiar with ordinary differential equations?
 

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