The Bridge

murgatroid99

7:00 AM

Honestly, a bigger problem with nulls is null references than nulls used as descriptions of information

Lazers

0

Q: minecraft 1.7.10 modded forge server keeps crashing

---- Minecraft Crash Report ---- // Oops. Time: 31/10/14 5:49 PM Description: Exception in server tick loop cpw.mods.fml.common.MissingModsException at cpw.mods.fml.common.Loader.sortModList(Loader.java:244) at cpw.mods.fml.common.Loader.loadMods(Loader.java:472) at cpw.mods.fml.ser...

murgatroid99

@Lazers what a surprise, an unformatted crash report and not a question mark to be seen

Ktash

I like and often take advantage of undefined vs null in JS. They should be separate things. They should be very separate things. And I am so happy they are. I wish other languages would do that too

murgatroid99

@Ktash how?

Ktash

If I call into a function, I want to know if it returned null, or if it didn't return anything. Those are different things, and I may need to react to them differently

murgatroid99

7:02 AM

No, I mean how is that distinction useful?

Ktash

35 secs ago, by Ktash

If I call into a function, I want to know if it returned null, or if it didn't return anything. Those are different things, and I may need to react to them differently

That's how that distinction is useful

I may return a null object, meaning the return is null. Or I may return nothing, in which there is nothing to return

murgatroid99

That doesn't tell me anythign

Ktash

Something is not defined vs something that is defined, and has a null value

murgatroid99

You're just saying again that you use it

Ktash

What, you want a real life code example??

murgatroid99

7:06 AM

I just don't see what you're going to use a null object for

value, whatever

Ktash

`function getUserInfo()`. Returns:
No return (undefined) -> User is not logged in
Null -> User is logged in, but we don't have the info
Object -> User information

murgatroid99

@Ktash Why can't you use false, or 0, or some other value that does exist in other languages for the same semantics?

Or an empty info object

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Because if the 3rd return type is true/false, that doesn't work. Or if it is a number, it is the same thing.

murgatroid99

@Ktash what do you mean, doesn't work? You're already returning 3 types of things

Anyway, that function seems to have too many semantics.

I would make it an error to call that function on a user that is not logged in

Ktash

There are lots of ways to work around the problem. But I'm an information person and that is really really annoying. DBs are a much much much bigger problem for this

murgatroid99

7:10 AM

So it always returns a user information object, which is sometimes empty

Ktash

`function anyFunction()` Returns:
No return -> We don't have an answer for this
Null -> There is an answer, but we don't know it
Value -> This is the answer

There is the general format. If value is true/false, then returning true/false for the I don't know case doesn't work

murgatroid99

@Ktash I don't think there should be a difference between 1 and 2

Ktash

@murgatroid99 So in my first example, you wouldn't want to know if you simply need to fetch the user info from somewhere or if you need to ask the user to login? That's not important to you?

murgatroid99

"There is an answer, but we don't have it" doesn't seem different from "we don't have an answer"

Ktash

Because for me, it very much is

murgatroid99

7:13 AM

@Ktash Knowing whether the user is logged in should be a different function

You shouldn't be fetching information for user X if you don't have a user yet

"It doesn't make sense to call this function yet" should be an error, not a return value

Ktash

If this were a perfect world, you are right. But the real world and real code isn't. Also, people and describing real situations isn't binary. When you get into describing a state, you sometimes have to say you don't know because you are in an indeterminate state.

murgatroid99

@Ktash In code, you either have a user, or you don't

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Really? You so sure about that?

murgatroid99

@Ktash I can't imagine a situation where that isn't the case

Ktash

I've just registered for an account, and I haven't filled out anything in terms of user info. What state am I in?

murgatroid99

7:16 AM

@Ktash Not "maybe"

A bunch of fields are empty. That doesn't mean you don't exist

Ktash

Do I have an account? Am I a user? Do I have a password? A name? Can I access all parts of a site now?

murgatroid99

@Ktash There shouldn't be registration that leaves you in a "maybe a user exists" state

And permissions are orthogonal to that

If a name field is blank, that doesn't mean you maybe exist

Ktash

@murgatroid99 I have to have a unique user name, but I haven't filled out that part yet. What state am I in?

murgatroid99

@Ktash If you need to have a unique user name to exist as a user, how did you register?

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Easy, email address is used for the initial blast, and then I have to enter my username when I arrive at the site

I show up, and I am a user now, but I don't have a username. What is it? Blank string? What if that is a valid username?

murgatroid99

7:19 AM

@Ktash If it's necessary for the user to do anything, it should be part of registration

It usually is, in cases I've seen

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Heh, "usually". That's a funny word. What would you do in the non-"usually" case

murgatroid99

Twitter and wikipedia are two good examples of that

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Oh, Twitter is a great example for that, but not quite how I think you're thinking

murgatroid99

@Ktash I used the word "usually" because I don't remember every website registration I've ever done, not because I think there's a counterexample

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Would you like me to point you to several?

I can even point you to some that I'm sure you've used before :)

murgatroid99

7:21 AM

And if there is an example, I'd just say that the user is in low permissions mode until they set a field

@Ktash but sure

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Do you have Do Not Track turned on? Off? Or have you not set it?

murgatroid99

@Ktash Considering that it does nothing but set an optionally followed header, no, I haven't bothered

Ktash

How about when did you register for Facebook? Or for GMail? Maybe when they were in beta, and you were a "user" because you had registered to receive an invite?

murgatroid99

You do know that it's another bit for browser fingerprint tracking, right?

@Ktash In gmail, the username is the email address

And I don't remember how facebook registration works

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Well, then, what is the state of your setting? Maybe undefined? How about if you wanted it the be unset. Now that might be null. Don't send one. But how could the browser know if you've set one or if you don't care. Null vs Undefined seems like a pretty useful distinction in bothering the user to set the preference

@murgatroid99 I'm talking about them in beta or when you needed an invite

murgatroid99

7:24 AM

@Ktash It has a well-defined default value

And there's no point in sending a header with "Do Not Track: No", so I don't think the browser does it ever

Ktash

@murgatroid99 "well-defined" is a funny term there. I don't think it is as "well-defined" as you think

@murgatroid99 Actually it does

It is a true/false. And it has a third state, null. And for browsers, they care about a forth state: Unset. The user has not been prompted for it, and it has not been set. It hasn't been ignored, and it is not true or false. It is nothing

murgatroid99

@Ktash It's a checkbox. That's a one-bit value. And it defaults to off

Chippies

and to think this all started because I misspelled a variable... :P

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Well it defaults to whatever the browser tells it to. And most browsers choose off, IE chooses on, but some choose nothing. They don't send the header until the user has set a setting

murgatroid99

@Ktash A browser setting defaults to what the browser sets it to? Who'd have guessed?

Ktash

7:28 AM

and it will prompt for the setting when it realizes the user has not had the chance to set it. But they can still ignore it

murgatroid99

I have never been prompted for that setting, and I never will because it's useless

And I would seriously be willing to be that no browser ever sends "Do Not Track: No"

It's a no-op waste of several bytes

Ktash

I'm not making a point about DNT. I think it was a good idea gone horribly awry, but that is beside the point. I'm showing 4, relevant states to a true/false value in the real world

murgatroid99

@Ktash And I'm disagreeing with you

Ktash

@murgatroid99 No it isn't. It specifies a user choise

murgatroid99

This is a binary setting with a binary default

Ktash

7:30 AM

The user has chosen to opt in to tracking

murgatroid99

@Ktash but it's a no-op in real life

Ktash

Where as no header specifies no choice

murgatroid99

"Do Not Track: No" does not produce different behavior than no header on any website

Ktash

@murgatroid99 No it isn't, actually. But even if it were, the point is a that it is tri-state. Yes, no, isn't there. Also, there is the "I don't know" for browsers

Chippies

@murgatroid99 I'd imagine it would mean consent

Ktash

7:31 AM

Advertisers can take it as a signal that people have consented

murgatroid99

@Chippies I'm talking about actual effects on real life server code

@Ktash can

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Ever looked at your Twitter settings?

They pay attention to it

And yes, no, and unknown are the 3 values for it

murgatroid99

@Ktash The fact that a Yes may change their behavior does not mean a No does

And twitter is one of the few services on the internet that cares about a "yes" value

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Alright, to end this really tangential segment of this, I'm going to go the low road route. When was the last time you looked at their code and know what they're doing? I'm telling you why it exist, not speculating at how it is being used by people who are spying on everyone anyway

Chippies

@murgatroid99 but if you coded an internet service, you could care if you wanted to

Ktash

7:34 AM

^ this

murgatroid99

Yeah, but I'm talking about the real world where real servers actually run

@Ktash What would they do if you sent a "No"? Gather more than all of the information?

Ktash

And I'm still talking about null vs undefined. If you are off on another topic, then we're talking past eachother anyway

Chippies

@murgatroid99 if you sue them, they can show you consented?

murgatroid99

@Ktash And I still disagree that you have provided a meaningful case of distinguishing

@Chippies "Do Not Track" is not legally meaningful in any juristiction

Chippies

it's probably at least slightly more meaningful than nothing, although probably not enough to matter

murgatroid99

7:36 AM

Though, California either recently or is in the process of making a law that says that companies have to say whether they care about it

Ktash

@murgatroid99 I've planted cameras inside your home to watch your every movement. You didn't consent, which is the same thing as a yes, right? So it is ok

Yes or no questions inherently have a third state where you don't know the answer

murgatroid99

@Ktash That's a big jump from "it's OK for companies to store/use information I have explicitly given to them by using the internet" to "anything that's not a no is a yes"

Consent defaults to "no"

Ktash

If I ask you what restaurant you want to go to, there are 4 states. You have a restaurant, you don't have a restaurant, you haven't answered my question, or you don't care

Chippies

maybe we should just have a mega-boolean

Ktash

@Chippies it's been suggested, actually

murgatroid99

7:39 AM

@Ktash That third one doesn't seem like something a program would care about

@Chippies true, false, file not found

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Really??? It doesn't need to know that it needs to ask the question???

Chippies

I usually just use byte or something similar when I need more than 2 outcomes

murgatroid99

@Ktash But once it's asked the question, "waiting for an answer" doesn't seem like a state that needs to be recorded.

Ktash

You use code to describe the real world. You store information about the real world. And in the real world, there is more than 1 type of null. I like to have that in my programming languages as well

@murgatroid99 Why not?

How do you represent that state?

How do I know I have asked the question but don't have an answer?

murgatroid99

@Ktash you're still waiting

Chippies

7:41 AM

@murgatroid99 if a window pops up with the question and you close it, you didn't answer the question, so I should probably ask again sometime?

Ktash

@murgatroid99 That's the human answer. How do you write that down on a piece of paper

murgatroid99

@Ktash "Process is suspended"

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Shut down your computer, walk away, and turn it back on again

Still in the "process is suspended" state?

Also, that's a pretty good description for another null

murgatroid99

@Ktash OK, at this point, I don't know what state anything is in

Ktash

Sounds like you could use another null

Chippies

7:43 AM

perhaps there should be dynamic custom nulls

Ktash

I would love meaningful nulls in DBs

murgatroid99

How about "transaction incomplete"? Or is this some magical non-database thing that stores data when the power goes out?

And by "incomplete", I mean "rolled back"

Ktash

@murgatroid99 That sounds like another null to me

murgatroid99

@Ktash That's equivalent to "this never happened"

The database is in the state it was in before you asked the question

Ktash

I have a UI, and I want to popup a dialog to the user. It is a yes/no dialog but they can close the dialog as well without answering the question. I don't want to go back to the "ask them again" state because I've asked them. But closing the dialog doesn't sound like a yes or a no

murgatroid99

7:45 AM

@Ktash Now it depends on the question. There should either be a default or a meaningful "cancel"

Ktash

@murgatroid99 "Do you believe abortion should be legal?" What's the default answer to that question?

There isn't always a default

murgatroid99

@Ktash "No response" should be an answer, and the default, and why is this in a modal?

It's like gender questions on many forms

You have the options "I choose not to answer, Male, Female", and it defaults to the first

Ktash

Not answering a question is its own answer. It deserves its own state. Just like "thinking" does

murgatroid99

Sometimes, it also has "Something else", but that's an explicit choice

Ktash

@murgatroid99 That is a null. Is that the same null as not having been asked the question?

murgatroid99

7:48 AM

@Ktash Yes. That's what "default" means

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Really? You sure about that? Because that's really easy to tear apart.

Because default is not a good answer to that question

murgatroid99

@Ktash Wait, which question?

Ktash

Pronouns are an important thing to a great many people. You shouldn't use the wrong ones, so assuming a default, even a "neutral" one, is a bad idea

@murgatroid99 Gender

Or, really, gender identity

murgatroid99

@Ktash OK. I can't imagine anyone could possibly be offended at a default gender of "I have not chosen to answer"

That's not the same as "neutral", it's just blank

Ktash

@murgatroid99 I can. I've met people like that.

murgatroid99

7:51 AM

And for all practical purposes "I have not chosen to answer" and "I choose not to answer" are equivalent

@Ktash So should there be another default for "I have not yet chosen to answer" just for people who identify as that?

Ktash

@murgatroid99 No. They are not. They are absolute 100% not.

murgatroid99

@Ktash OK. In what situation would querying the database and getting one versus the other change the output or operation of something?

Ktash

@murgatroid99 "Such and such posted a new picture. View _______ picture here". Insert pronoun

murgatroid99

@Ktash "Their" is a perfectly valid singular second person pronoun

Ktash

As I said, "their" will offend some people if they haven't chosen it

murgatroid99

7:54 AM

@Ktash If someone gets offended at any nonsense, I can't help them

It's not like that's specific to a gender

And I still don't see what you would do differently in the two different cases where someone has not given an answer

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Trans people can sometimes be hypersensitive to pronouns because it is a huge deal to them. They have to fight to be acknowledged by the right pronouns and the use of the wrong one is, yes, a very big deal

@murgatroid99 If you know you haven't asked someone, you can ask someone. If you have asked someone, and they chose the "I don't wish to specify" then you have an answer

You are not making assumptions for the user, they have made a choice and that choice is "null"

Before they have made a choice, they are "undecided"

murgatroid99

@Ktash If you're displaying a photo to X, you're going to block rendering the caption until you have Y choose a pronoun?

@Ktash If you care that much about pronouns, but can't take the time to choose "M" or "F" from a dropdown, you have some messed up priorities

And in any case, getting offended by someone using a generic third person pronoun to refer to you is ridiculous. It applies to everybody

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Yes. I am. I've implemented a new feature and the user hasn't chosen a setting for that feature, so I am not going to make an assumption. I am going to work around the fact that I have no answer by not displaying that portion of the information. That's exactly what most things do

murgatroid99

@Ktash You could also just use "username's"

OK, it's 1 AM and we've been arguing about null semantics for an hour and a half. I'm going to bed

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Hey, look, what do you know. An odd sounding, but acceptable middle area until you get your proper answer. So now you have 4 choices to display there. The odd sounding "username's photo. View username's photo". And then the 3 normal options of "their", "hers" or "his"

murgatroid99

8:02 AM

@Ktash That suggestion works for all 4 cases. And definitely the two null cases

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Except it sounds odd and is a poor experience for users

murgatroid99

What if they choose not to respond, but their only acceptable pronouns are "xe/xir/xis"

Then they'd still be offended

And I'm really going to bed now

Ktash

Tell you what, I'll write an essay detailing the exact UI and requirements needed for all of this so you will accept that there may be a case where you have a reason to know both if a question has been answered, and if that answer is nothing. And when I do, I'll point you to it. But until then, you seem to be fighting tooth and nail to deny every possible reason you could ever want to know if someone has answered a question or not. And it is late and I'm going to bed too

Chippies

JS is so much trouble for no apparent reasons

Arperum

@Chippies It is trouble because JS

Chippies

8:10 AM

@Arperum that's what it seems like

5pike

Morning guys

Arperum

@5pike Morning!

Chippies

'ello

can anyone explain why this returns UpdateHtml is not defined?

setInterval('UpdateHtml("resources")', 1000);
function UpdateHtml(id) {
    // code
}

nvm, changing it to setInterval(function(){UpdateHtml("resources")}, 1000); made it work

JS is magical!

5pike

A function that fires every second ... are you writing an incremental game, per chance?

Chippies

8:25 AM

@5pike that would be the ideal outcome

but since I have no experience with JS or any web languages whatsoever, I'm not sure if anything will ever come out of this

as of now, I'm just messing with stuff, trying to figure out JS

5pike

Hehehe, nice. I also started to write one. Just for funzies.

@Chippies I also am not very skilled with JS, but it's fun to mess around with stuff.

Chippies

@5pike Indeed!

JS, however, seems to be quite a pain in the butt, lol

5pike

Eh, it's alright.

Chippies

I guess I should rephrase that... JS seems to be quite a pain in the butt for a newb like I am

sometimes it just doesn't do things and it's quite difficult to figure out why

5pike

@Chippies Mhh... you should look at the JS course at codecademy.com

Chippies

8:29 AM

@5pike I was looking at jQuery, although I probably should've started with JS, heh

5pike

@Chippies Do you have the console open?

Chippies

@5pike I do

5pike

Good.

Blem

8:43 AM

@Chippies JS is Dark Magic!

5pike

@Blem Silly dog, you didn't evolve, you were bred.

God, I hate the FTP plugin of Notepad++, always drops the connection.

Arperum

9:00 AM

woohoo. today was off to a "good" start. 300+ sites down. as in suddenly require username/pass.

I came into the office an hour ago to a boss in underwear frantically working to find out what the fuck had happened.

5pike

...

OK

Arperum

office is in his house, so he was called awake for "TROUBLES. everything dead!"

5pike

Oh, I see.

Arperum

Well, not everything, just one server.

Kevin van der Velden

It just happened to be the login server?

Arperum

9:03 AM

@KevinvanderVelden No, apparently all 300+ anonymous users for the hostings are gone for no reason. So everything required a pass while it shouldn't.

Kevin van der Velden

Fancy

So the FTP server bit was down?

Arperum

yea, so now some task is running to restore all users one by one.

@KevinvanderVelden ftp was not really the issue, no anonymous ftp on the server, all websites were blocked basically with "no acces".

Kevin van der Velden

Aah

Arperum

everything else was still up and running.

but I just had a call "yea, everything on the server is dead. when will it be fixed?"

My boss has left the office five minutes ago to go eat something and get clothes and stuff.

Bah. I hate mails like this one.

"It is obviously important that you make an accurate as possible time estimation. But I expect nothing less :)"

5pike

@Arperum Urgh...

Arperum

9:09 AM

Time estimation for "extra searchfunction" IIRC that "extra searchfunction" is a pretty complex thing that invovles a whole new slew of tables and stuff in the DB.

Did I mention that it is for a website in VB?

Kevin van der Velden

@Arperum "between 1 and 3 times your time and monetary budget"

Arperum

Or that I asked for an hour to make a time estimation for something else? And that I got said hour, but there are now three time estimations I have to make.

Kevin van der Velden

So, what did I miss?

Mad Scientist

@Navaneeth Don't post your question into a lot of rooms at once, especially not into completely unrelated ones

Arperum

@KevinvanderVelden Nothing it seems.

tombull89

9:23 AM

@KevinvanderVelden so'er spamming his questions in unrelated rooms - SF, Gaming, Computer Science, etc.

Morwenn

Code Review too. I thought it was a bad CR question at first and almost voted to close it.

Kevin van der Velden

@tombull89 jeah I checked his other rooms and not everyone had removed it

He also posted it in the tex and latex sites =/

tombull89

hopefully an hour chat ban will teach him/her not to do it again ^_^

Kevin van der Velden

@tombull89 yeah, he started with half an hour ban, before that was up another flag got validated xp

Sepia Lazers

0

Q: Is it okay to use the Name of this site in a Clan?

With the chatroom Summoners Rift being reopened, the small (and growing) amount of users that play League now have a place to hang out and chat etc. We often play together for fun and now we've found around 10 users who play on the European server. This would be enough to build a team with backup...

support legal

Kevin van der Velden

9:32 AM

@SepiaLazers I recall the stance being "Make sure people know it's unofficial and sure"

Arperum

@KevinvanderVelden cc @Jutschge

Ggo church. They are restoring some known pedophile back to his previous rank.

Kevin van der Velden

@Arperum what? The pope is coming out of retirement?

Oh wait, his job was for covering it up

5pike

@KevinvanderVelden Hahahaha, BURN.

Arperum

@KevinvanderVelden dutch article

As cherry on top: he's becoming pastor again on the place where he sexually assaulted a kid...

Jutschge

Arperum

9:45 AM

Are you also aware that the current pope said that the Big Bang theory is actually right.

Kevin van der Velden

@Arperum eeh, he said that god didn't use a magic wand

Arperum

I'm not a christian, but that guy is one of the better and more progressive popes I've heard.

Jutschge

well personally I really kinda like the new pope

5pike

The new pope is pretty dope.

Mad Scientist

@Arperum That's not new for catholics

Kevin van der Velden

9:48 AM

@5pike except the assisting in kidnapping and support of violent regimes

Arperum

I'm kind of trying to make the point that the current pope is super progressive.

5pike

@KevinvanderVelden ... what?

Kevin van der Velden

@5pike Link to relevant bit

@Arperum well, he says things that sound progressive, and then they're clarified to be pretty much the same old

Jutschge

Well he's still the pope... but he's not as bad as Benedict

Kevin van der Velden

Eeeh, one covered up child rape, the other helped a violent regime

It's not really an achievement saying "Hey! I'm better than someone that covers up child rape"

fredley

9:56 AM

@5pike Did your invite arrive?

5pike

@fredley Yes, it did. Thanks

fredley

@5pike Awesome

Jutschge

@KevinvanderVelden Well I guess for a pope it is an achievement :P

5pike

> Perhaps he didn't have the courage of other priests, but he never collaborated with the dictatorship ... Bergoglio was no accomplice of the dictatorship

Well, whatever.

Kevin van der Velden

Jeah, I can't find anything concrete so it could be nothing. It is interesting that the second he became a pope everyone started saying he was completely innocent

Could be nothing but makes me skeptical

5pike

10:03 AM

@KevinvanderVelden True, true.

fredley

Man I'm going to be so pissed when Google decides Inbox was a failed experiment

2

Wipqozn

@DwarfSlice I hate when that happens.

djsmiley2k

10:27 AM

wibble

Blem

2

djsmiley2k

lol wut

physics, how does it work?

Kevin van der Velden

@Blem the poor thing :|

djsmiley2k

k make it stop!

5pike

Why would you do that?

Wipqozn

10:31 AM

Because kids are dumb.

5pike

Oh yeah.

Wipqozn

At least it's a hamster, and not a cat. I feel more empathy for cats than not cats.

5pike

@Wipqozn Eh, I doubt a cat would get hurt, but a hamster...

badp

@5pike Today she learned that you jump higher when you hit Space on a rising platform

This will prove crucial in her videogaming career

5pike

@badp Next up - Rocket jumping

badp

10:33 AM

@5pike yesssss

maybe she should cover air strafing first

so she can avoid rocket jumping straight into a wall

Matt Эллен

she seemed to be attempting that

Wipqozn

@5pike True

badp

@5pike even cats can't land on four paws on a library

5pike

@Wipqozn I wonder what would happen if the cat claws the ball, while sitting on it.

badp

...but a cat would probably only jump up by a few cm's

@5pike LOUD NOISES

(dammit youtube I asked for the time code)

5pike

10:38 AM

@badp I could try it with my deaf cat...

fredley

10:50 AM

How Prince of Persia's jump animation was made

5pike

@fredley Cool

fredley

11:36 AM

Joke

5pike

@fredley I know that one.

user15026

@fredley I am kinda proud of myself for understanding that joke

fredley

Galactic Cheerio Coach

user15026

Also, my new job pays me exactly when they say they will and I don't have to take off the tax myself. That's awesome.

StrixVaria

@AshleyNunn w. a. t.

fredley

11:44 AM

@AshleyNunn Whiskey Alpha Tango

user15026

The money just appears like magic in my account! It's crazy.

Kevin van der Velden

Magic! :D

fredley

@AshleyNunn This.... this didn't happen at your old job?

Kevin van der Velden

And! No one is asking if you want it in bitcoin

fredley

Noone needs to be an animal. Like alot.

Matt Эллен

11:45 AM

/modabuse

StrixVaria

For safety people who aren't sure should say "nobody".

Kevin van der Velden

@MattЭллен yes*

Lazers

0

Q: How do you get the last 3 secret cases in another case solved?

I've practically completed the game and only have secret cases left to do. What i find strange is that i have found all secret cases in the 5 chapters, but i have only 7/10 secret cases uncovered... Anyone know how to get the remaining 3 secret cases?

another-case-solved

Matt Эллен

:D

fredley

@StrixVaria Why only safety people, why not everybody?

StrixVaria

11:46 AM

@fredley If you know what you're doing, your options are expanded.

Kevin van der Velden

Also! Noone is a nonstandard spelling, while alot is a misspelling (according to en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noone )

Matt Эллен

noöne is a correct and best spelling

Kevin van der Velden

Ooh fancy

fredley

Nøøne

StrixVaria

@MattЭллен Umlauts (they're probably not called that in this context) used this way make my face hurt.

user15026

11:47 AM

@fredley oh no. When I got paid, it was always late usually by a week and I always got the joy of using Canada revenue's online calculator to figure out how much of that pay had to be saved to pay taxes.

fredley

@AshleyNunn ughhhhhhhh

Kevin van der Velden

@AshleyNunn uugghh

user15026

@KevinvanderVelden Yeah no one offering me bitcoin is great!

Matt Эллен

@StrixVaria Fëanor, Zoë, coördination

StrixVaria

@MattЭллен Why is it on the "e" in whatever "feanor" is?

Matt Эллен

11:48 AM

@StrixVaria Tolkien said so...

I don't know

StrixVaria

@AshleyNunn I don't even think that's legal in the US. Your employer has to withhold some money because the government wants to make sure they get something.

5pike

Never seen an ë ever used

StrixVaria

@MattЭллен Oh fantasy names are immune to all rules of logic, so I'm not worried about it now.

user15026

@StrixVaria I was a contractor (or so they claimed) so apparently that was always my problem

Kevin van der Velden

@5pike It's reasonably common in dutch

Matt Эллен

11:50 AM

@5pike enjoy

StrixVaria

@AshleyNunn ew

fredley

@5pike Chloë also

5pike

@KevinvanderVelden How does on pronunciate that ë

fredley

Citroën

user15026

@StrixVaria I am so so glad I don't have to deal with it anymore (well except for the last cheque they owe me, whenever I get that)

StrixVaria

11:51 AM

@5pike In cases like this the umlaut just denotes that you pronounce the two vowels as separate sounds, rather than the group of vowels as one sound.

Matt Эллен

@5pike usually like ee in bee

StrixVaria

They're omitted a lot because people familiar with the words know how to pronounce them anyway.

Arperum

@5pike Like a normal e. It's used to split lettergroups. For example: Chloe sounds completely different to Chloë in Dutch. Because "oe" has a specific sound associated with it.