The Bridge - 2014-10-31 (page 1 of 9)

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12:02 AM

Yeah, I've heard good things from you guys.

@StrixVaria in particular gave it a lot of praise.

well, I'm considering playing styx buuuuuuuuuut it's warm, and my fan is on the other side of the room. If I'm going to get up, I mine as well just keep walking to my reading chair!

user15026

It is a very fun book

That makes sense, right?

user15026

Makes perfect sense to me

Good!

Reading time. Time to read a book, and then keep on reading that book.

0

Q: Asking a question just to answer it

What happens with questions being asked, just to provide an answer "FAQ Style"? I have been guilty of asking a question like this, here. But then I saw this question, and my reaction was a little less inviting. What is the quota for asking a question, just so you can answer it?

discussion answering asking

12:25 AM

hhhmmmmmmm

so, wife got a part time job recently in a clothing store, she has 50% off on all clothes. In the 3 weeks of work so far, she has made negative money and brought home quite a few pieces of clothing...

user15026

@Chippies oh dear. :P

@Chippies Canadian women amirite

@DwarfSlice is that specific to Canadian women?

women, amirite?

@Chippies inb4 flags

12:34 AM

@DwarfSlice so you went safe and hoped that there's not enough Canadian women here to offend? :P

none of my messages are ever safe

@DareDevilSlice

living on the edge, yo

Creepy album art of the day

So I started watching game of thrones

so far every episode has had multiple pairs of tits and at least two sex scenes.

Really enjoying how fully realized the characters are

except prince joffrey

he can go climb a wall of dicks

that's a new one

dumbledore kills snape!

the demo for new pokemon is really lame

but the full game should be alright

12:44 AM

@DwarfSlice I didn't know you were in to pony music

@DwarfSlice ...

Oh my

@murgatroid99 Pony Music?

@DwarfSlice check the tags

Although I had noticed most of the people buying his previous albums have pony avatars

Also, General Mumble is a well known brony musician

12:45 AM

@murgatroid99 I enjoyed Synesthesia by him.

@murgatroid99 I could tag my music with coffee if I wanted. That doesn't make it coffee music if it has nothing to do with coffee. Music is music.

genreal mymbloe

@DwarfSlice There's a lot of brony music that samples from or is inspired from the show

Plus, that album art is his pony avatar with bat wings

I listened to synethesia and liked it. If it has samples from the show, eh.

Doesn't make me stop liking it.

@DwarfSlice That one actually wasn't tagged "pony", so it might not

Anyway, I was just making a joke when I noticed that you linked to General Mumble

I don't get why all his buyers are ponies

I mean I get buying stuff you're interested in

but like, what's the difference

between his music and other music

It's kind of a cultural thing. Listening to and making "brony" music is a really big thing in the fandom.

12:53 AM

Weird.

I mean I guess I get it.

But it feels like me buying somebody's music because he also likes scooby doo

meh

People can do what they want

I wouldn't buy music just because it's called "brony music", but the fact that it is makes it more likely that I'll want to listen to it. I'm not really sure I can explain why

user15026

why does the motivation for liking it matter?

user15026

like I like a thing, thus I want to interact with the thing

@murgatroid99 You like it by association?

@AshleyNunn I'm just curious about it, that's all. It doesn't matter.

user15026

12:55 AM

why I like the thing is immaterial, and I shouldn't have to justify it.

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to put people down every time I talk about ponies.

user15026

Never said you were, please to not put words in my mouth

Can we trust a crafty dwarf, though?

user15026

or my fingers, in this case

@badp Sort of, I guess. It's like the association adds additional context

12:56 AM

@murgatroid99 "I like X, please give me more of X"

I dunno if I'd listen to Homestuck "music" but I'd probably look at a fan pic or two occasionally

I meant that it adds context to the content of the song

@badp Yeah, I'd say it's the same kind of thing with that

@AshleyNunn How's the sickness going?

user15026

@badp I worked today and managed real foods for dinner :D

@AshleyNunn Woot

1:21 AM

OMG SOMEONE SAID THE WORD "WEED"

@Sterno 14 days ago!

That makes it better.

Really need a userscript that levels my Clicker Heroes guys for me

Then it can be Progress Quest

Then you can just not play it

I already do that

user15026

I am good at doing that

I need to get better at doing that.

It's super convenient to play when my daughter is watching Kinder egg videos or whatever the heck on YouTube

1:24 AM

I just have a bookmark that says "Clicker Heroes". And I know that the longer I wait to open it, the more gold I'll have.

1:36 AM

0

Q: At what point is refining more efficient than cutting?

When kittens-game begins, our only option to obtain wood is by refinement. As the game continues, we have access to woodcutters, and they pretty clearly are more efficient than refining (see this question "When are Woodcutters more efficient than refining catnip?"). Later on however there are ma...

Newly Opened Proposals for Entertainment

1

Islam in Arabic | الأسلام سؤال وجواب

Proposed Q&A site for questions and answers about Islam in the Arabic language

Currently in definition.

user image

HOW THE FUCK

WILL I SURVIVE

THIS: avclub.com/article/…

HOW

TELL ME HOW

1:59 AM

0

Q: PSP official firmware Game load error

I have a psp go which runs on an official firmware 6.20 version and lately i have been facing issues regarding the Game installing. Every other file works (like videos, photos and music) but the game doesn't work i tried to put iso as well as cso, but every game every time show a corrupted game d...

2:22 AM

user image

I think this may be the first time I've used this thing's DVD burner

Building complete for the day. Progress: wings are complete, Dragoons are decaled, and I'm almost done decaling a quarter of the wings.

probably not a good thing to onebox

user image

so apparently after all that, all I needed to do to make visual studio work was sign in with my account connected to dreamspark

2:31 AM

Go home, Facebook, you're drunk!

user15026

@JeffreyLin In the future, flag, or link to the question that needs attention, but dont onebox it please

user43095

@AshleyNunn Oh, sorry about that.

user image

user43095

Free Payday 2 Masks

3:00 AM

humblebundle.com/weekly

fuck, this has Knock Knock

Ice Pick Lodge makes crazy games

do want

CC @LessPop_MoreFizz they made The Void

0

Q: Is there a way to replay the tutorial in Plants vs Zombies 2?

I didn't get the achievement for playing the tutorial, because I didn't sign in the first time I played. Is resetting my progress the only way to do it? I'm trying to get all the achievements, but this one eludes me.

android plants-vs-zombies-2

LessPop_MoreFizz

3:31 AM

whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

@LessPop_MoreFizz but #obola!

@DwarfSlice Somehow I missed this actually being a thing and now I'm even more fed up with people than I was earlier.

Oct 26 at 3:34, by DwarfSlice

That gamedev went down the shitter as far as I'm concerned when they posted that

they literally put #Obola posters in their game

Which I own and will probably not play again now

Because I don't want to see that shit

What the hell shakes head

what part of "shut up with your damn subwoofer after 11 on weekdays" is so hard to understand, people in my building?

3:39 AM

@TimStone Pretty dumb right

@Unionhawk If you aren't partying hard you're hardly partying.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Unionhawk Aren't you in college?

Thursday is not a weekday.

you have a point

LessPop_MoreFizz

Or rather, Thursday night is not a weeknight.

@LessPop_MoreFizz lol

3:41 AM

I'll complain about it whenever I want to though, dammit

@LessPop_MoreFizz Are any ~~days~~ nights weeknights in college?

I actually don't remember it being a distinct series of days, time just kind of blended together...

can somebody else click this so I can get a tshirt kickdriver.com/r/8khss1YK

...Actually it still does that because parenting is exhausting but it's not quite as fun.

wrong link

woo, thanks

user15026

it makes me sad that it wont make it

3:43 AM

I know. =[

Man, that Kickstarter page made Chrome super unhappy.

I HOPE YOUR T-SHIRT WAS WORTH MY MOMENTARY INCONVENIENCE

@AshleyNunn I'm pretty sure they will find another way to get it made, it will probably just take longer.

In other news, Basement reached their goal cc @StrixVaria

LessPop_MoreFizz

@TimStone Meanwhile, have you seen the Libertarian candidate for Governor of Oregon?

user image

Man, if you can't trust those eyebrows, what can you trust?

wrong window

3:46 AM

I'm not convinced there was a right window for that, admittedly.

3

4:19 AM

0

Q: What Does the Jump Key Do in Bumper Cars?

Pressing the jump key during the bumper car games causes the car to bounce slightly. What is the purpose of this maneuver?

team-fortress-2

4:59 AM

0

Q: Questions about loyalty rewards for playing previous borderlands?

How do i get loyalty reward? Do i need to have both savegame or i just need 1 savegame to get loyalty reward? Right now i just has borderlands 1 savegame Is there any different reward from BL 1 or 2 save game ?

borderlands-pre-sequel

RPi Awesomeness

Helooo all

Goodnight all

5:22 AM

is anyone knowledgeable in js/jquery available here?

@Chippies What's up?

I am trying to do something in jquery and I'm a complete noob and I don't understand why it doesn't work

$(document).ready(function() {
    $('button').click(function() {
        UpdateMaxValues();
        if($varPeopleCurrent > $varPeopleMax) {
            $varPeopleCurrent = $varPeopleMax;
        }
        if($varCastleCurrent > $varCastleMax) {
            $varCastleCurrent = $varCastleMax;
        }
        if($varGoldCurrent > $varGoldMax) {
            $varGoldCurrent = $varGoldMax;
        }
        alert("YAY!?");
    });
});

gah, how do I format it as code?

anyways, the alert doesn't show up unless I comment out everything else in the function

When you do a multiline, you can tell it to do fixed width font

idk how to do that, lol

Should be a button that appears next to upload the first time you hit shift + enter to do a multiline

5:27 AM

@Ktash cool, will keep that in mind :)

so, is there something super obvious in there that would stop the alert from working?

all of the $var... are globals?

I believe so

Wrap all your code in a try catch and see if it is throwing before you get there. It is highly likely either a misspelling, or UpdateMaxValues() is throwing

try {
   // other code
} catch (e) { alert(e.stack || e); }

umm, where would the error show up? I'm using Adobe Edge Code CC

Also, as a side note, I would nix the $var in front of each variable. But that's more style than anything

I don't know where Edge Code puts the console, but it would be with your console statements. I think it runs embedded Chrome, so you can probably just pull up the inspector

5:32 AM

@Ktash I have never really done any web coding, so I'm not really sure on the style preferences :P

hm, apparently the variables are undefined

@Chippies In JavaScript, style preferences are inherited from whatever your previous language was. You can tell what a persons primary language is by how they write their JS

Probably not global then

so, having var in front of the variable outside of any functions does not make it global? lol

Where and how do you define these?

I put them outside of everything

var $varPeopleCurrent = 100;
var $varCastleCurrent = 100;
var $varGoldCurrent = 100;
var $varPeopleMax = $varCastleCurrent;
var $varCastleMax = $varPeopleCurrent * 2;
var $varGoldMax = $varCastleLevelCurrent * 2;

As long as those are declared at the global level, and not in any functions or callbacks, then they should be in scope

5:34 AM

oh crap, I have a misspell...

Heh, that's usually what gets you

coding for web makes debugging harder than any other languages I've used, lol

usually I just hit compile and it shows all the problems :P

It's something that you have to get used to. It isn't as nice as other languages. But it is also more powerful at times, because it is JIT, you can inject and test code on the fly

0

Q: Where/How do I pick up the car I ordered on iFruit?

I have ordered a car for both Trevor and my online character. Both received the message saying that their order was ready and I had to pick it up at Los Santos Customs. I went there with each character, and I saw nothing. I looked for a trigger, or just the car, but nothing was there. I checked a...

grand-theft-auto-5

yeah, I figured it's finally time for me to learn some JS/jQuery, since it's what all the cool people seem to be using :P

5:37 AM

It's something you learn as you do. Just like other languages. And the tools are infinitely better at it than they were even 5 years ago

I'm a hardcore JS person, and I love coding in it, but you gotta find the right language for the right project. The web languages are great languagea to have on your belt though :)

Yeah, it's certainly useful to know how to code for web

5:51 AM

@Chippies Oh god, your excessive use of dollar signs made me thing this was PHP

@murgatroid99 codecademy taught me to use dollar signs for EVERYTHING! lol

PHP is the worst language

once I figure out more about js, I'll revise the code to be more appropriately looking

@murgatroid99 so I've heard

Also, I just want to say, using globals everywhere will probably bite you eventually. It might be better to keep your data in an object or a closure.

This isn't a JS thing, just a general rule

Basically, if you put all of your code in an immediately called anonymous function, you can have stuff that's effectively global without polluting the global namespace

Like this:

(function() {
  // your code here
})();

I don't really know how to do that, especially in JS

5:57 AM

You put your entire script in the part that says // your code here

@murgatroid99 like, the whole script?

Yes. If you do that, everything will be local to that function, so it will be accessible to everything else in the script, but it can't affect outside code

but would it still run something like $(document).ready(function(){}));?

to be fair, I probably won't need that once I figure out how to do things the proper way...

You know what, I don't know if I can explain this well enough. Just stick with what you have; you can always make that change later

lol

yeah, I will hopefully pick up better coding habits as I learn more about the language

6:02 AM

Honestly, I don't have to exercise my ability to explain stuff as much when I work with people who have spend much more time than I have programming.

The basic idea is that there's no difference between executing javascript code and calling a function containing that code except what scope the variables are accessible in.

So if you surround your script with a function definition and then call that function, it's exactly like running the code directly except that the variables aren't accessible to any other code.

the thing I don't really understand yet is that there's usually a main function of some sorts where you can put code that should execute automatically

I guess there's also events

I should really learn javascript, shouldn't I

In javascript, any code in your page or an imported script is just run when the interpreter reads it

You don't need a "main" function because it's already running the code

You can, of course, define a main function and then call it. Which is basically the same as what I described except that the function has a name

@murgatroid99 so, if I surround the whole script with (function() { // code })(); it would run the same way as if I didn't?

@Chippies Yes.

6:06 AM

mm, fancy

That code defines a function without a name, and then immediately calls it, running all of your code

But since the variables are only accessible in the function, it has some effects

For example, the console doesn't have simple access to those variables

More importantly, it means that there's no chance of overwriting a global that some other script was using

That's the more important reason to avoid globals

That, of course, depends on you being careful to define all of your variables with var

well, I didn't really plan on having multiple scripts, so that wouldn't be an issue, but I guess it's important to avoid global variables just in case

user image

There's also any other scripts you might load, like jQuery. This is the reason jQuery only defines the $ variable in the global namespace

@murgatroid99 so, a properly named $variable would be global and variable local?

@Chippies That has nothing to do with globalness

I think jQuery picked that name mainly because nobody else uses it

6:14 AM

I mean like, what's the accepted formatting for that?

because from what I understand, you can either have $ or not have $ in front of a variable and it doesn't seem to make a difference

@murgatroid99 And JQuery

@Chippies Because that's just a character that's legal in variable names

There's nothing special about $

@Ktash I thought that was only in compatibility mode

$ is the format for jquery because it was a short symbol that was unlikely to conflict and already in use by other scripts as a shortcut call for element access

@murgatroid99 No, always

Well, I don't know. I don't really use jQuery

@murgatroid99 so, in codecademy there were a whole lot of examples like $('p'). etc, could it just as well be just ('p') ?

or in that case the $ is important?

6:16 AM

@Chippies No, no, in that case $ is still the jQuery variable

$ is just a variable name like i or foo

But that's the only important thing about that character. It has no special meaning in JavaScript

JQuery and other similar scripts just happen to use the $ symbol because it is short

so I'm guessing foo('p') wouldn't work same way as $('p') (or at all) with jQuery, right?

@Chippies No, because $ is the name of the jQuery variable

6:17 AM

People often denote a different between the JQuery and non-JQuery versions of an object using the $ though. So, something like var $this = $(this);

@murgatroid99 okay, gotcha

But that is the only real common convention with $ in variable names outside of jQuery

The underscore library does a similar thing. It defines the variable _

btw, in JS the order of code matters, right?

@Chippies You'd be hard-pressed to find a language where that isn't the case

6:21 AM

@Chippies Most of the time

But not always

@murgatroid99 I am not 100% sure, but I believe in C# it doesn't really matter

There is a thing called hoisting, which you shouldn't worry much about while learning things

for example
foo = bar;
var foo = 1;
var bar = 2;

this would work in C#, iirc

@Chippies no

@murgatroid99 hm, maybe that's specific to Unity then

6:22 AM

@Chippies This will not throw an error in JS. But they will not both be 1

or maybe I'm thinking of something completely different

@Chippies That's because of the hoisting thing Ktash was talking about, and it only affects certain things

@Ktash it won't say that foo or bar are undefined?

In JS this would compile to something like
var foo, bar;
foo = bar;
foo = 1;
bar = 2;

The variable definitions get "hoisted" to the top

I see

6:23 AM

they would end up as foo==1 and bar==2, then

so they are both undefined, but the are not unreferencable. If you never declare the variable, and then you try to access it, it will throw an error. But if you declare it anywhere in the same scope, it will be undefined

btw, when I said that example would work in C#, I didn't mean that both would be 1, but that it wouldn't throw an error

Again, hoisting isn't something you should concern yourself with. Just learn JS and then worry about its inner workings :)

didn't realize the numbers would make a difference to what I meant at the time, lol

@Ktash But I thought that without strict mode, both variables would be hoisted as undefined definitions in the global scope

@Chippies That's what I was disagreeing with

6:25 AM

@murgatroid99 yeah, that was an error in me trying to explain what I meant

@murgatroid99 Huh? No. Both are hoisted in their scope. Scope is preserved. They are both undefined when they hit the first assignment =, but they exist

and they can be referenced because they exist

@Ktash I mean in the case where you never declare them

@murgatroid99 For simple assignment like that, yes, they would get global scope. For things like foo++, they will throw

@Ktash right

Accessing it will throw, assignment will not

6:35 AM

The lesson here is that JavaScript can be complicated, but you can avoid all that if you just define every variable at the top of the outermost scope where it's used

Well, the innermost scope that contains all uses of the variable

Yeah. I really really don't like that style. But when learning, it can be a good thing

Wait, what. I was trying to suggest something that's actually good style

Heh, "good" is objective. I think Douglas Crockford style is messy and terrible. I think you should declare your variables where you need them.

@Ktash But they'll just get hoisted, so it's deceptive

I also really don't like Douglas Crockford's view on JS. I think he wants it to be other languages

@murgatroid99 And a compiler compiles code and moves it around and changes it. That is a language feature, not something you need to fight against

6:40 AM

@Ktash What I mean is that all variables end up being declared at the beginning of functions, so declaring them elsewhere can be misleading

@murgatroid99 If the compiler is going to do it for you, why in the world would you make your code more confusing by taking away context for something when you don't need to

If JS had lexical scoping, I'd see it differently

If you define a variable within a loop, for example, it looks like it's in the loop's scope but it's really in the function's scope

Yes, you're right. And if no one in the world learned the language or its features, than you should totally cater to that. But I write my code with the assumption that others are going to read it. And when they do, I like my variables to have context

Honestly, though, if you have a function that's so long that it has substantial amounts of code in between variable declarations, it should probably be broken up into multiple functions

@Ktash I'm not trying to imply that code isn't for reading. I'm just saying that you should try to be as clear as possible about the semantics of your code

And it is my opinion that declaring a variable within what appears to be a lexical scope but having it accessible outside of that scope can be misleading

I don't write my JS for novices. I write my JS for JS. I work with prototypes, instead of trying to hack in "classes". I use promises and asynchronous functionality like they were going out of style. And I know how scope works, so I take full advantage of scoping, without worrying about how the language will hoist things around (unless I want to take advantage of that too)

@murgatroid99 Are you going to try to access it before you need it?

6:46 AM

@Ktash I don't know. We're still talking about hypothetical code.

@murgatroid99 I'm not. I'm talking about how I code every single day

I code where I can read it and it makes sense. If I have a variable, I declare it where I need it. If I need it out of scope for where I need it, I declare it at the next scope up

Honestly, in the JavaScript code I've written recently, I don't think I had any single function long enough for this to make a difference

Style is a weird thing. Some of it is not personal because you will drive people mad if you do things too crazy. But for me, I hate Crockford style, and I refuse to use it. I will actively rewrite code just to make his ugly style go away

@murgatroid99 I have. I definitely have. Lots of them. Very complex calculations and functions that do crazy stuff

My code plays with scope so much it is wild. I wrote a JS function that stores the scope for a JS function into a database, pulls it out later, and runs it in that scope again

@Ktash quite honestly, that sounds like code that would be incredibly hard to reason about

Hoisting is a language feature, not a detriment. And treating it like something you have to fight against, or work around in how you code is a little silly to me

6:52 AM

Many "features" in JavaScript are bugs waiting to happen

@murgatroid99 Yeah, in the middle of that function, scope is like spaghetti. Which is why declaring variables there is extremely helpful. I don't want to have to go back up to the top to see what scope things are in

@murgatroid99 Haha, clearly JS isn't your first language in terms of preference ;P

I wish I could focus as hard as that cat

JS has many "features" that are amazingly awesome to take advantage of in wild ways when you know how

@Ktash basically next in line after PHP for languages I would gladly do away with

Tony Hoare called nulls "a billion-dollar mistake". JavaScript has two of them

There's soft equality, strange integer/string conversion, the fact that there's no real map type

@murgatroid99 I have a degree in information science. Trust me, you don't want me to get started down the path that we need more "null"s

2 is barely enough

6:55 AM

I don't think I could possibly ever agree with that statement

There's the automatic promotion to globals I mentioned earlier

Here are 3 different kinds of nulls which matter in processing different types of information. And trust me, there are more:
- Something is not defined
- Something is defined and we don't know the value of it
- Something is defined and we know what the value is, but it is null

The type system that doesn't work like one in any other popular language

@Ktash That's called compile time error, compile time error, and compile time error

@murgatroid99 Not when you're processing and storing information. It is one of the reasons I really wish modern databases had different kinds of null

Maybe not the last one

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Transcript for

Oct '1431

The Bridge

General Arqade Chat. We tried to leave once, but the door lock...

--gaming jin-fanclub lazers murder -politics -stars

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