The Bridge - 2012-08-20 (page 5 of 5)

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user2334

8:01 PM

@OrigamiRobot Blizzard could easily go into it in a blue post. Or bashiok could comment on reddit. It's not unanswerable in principle. I'm all for closing it as too localized after it lands, though, whether Blizzard ever officially clarified before 1.0.4 landed or not

user2334

@Alok Stock up on XP boost items, or do something different with their GF/MF gear if they know how many paragon levels they'll have when 1.0.4 lands

user2334

@Koviko If someone's asking "Should I farm XP?", it's not going to work here whether it's about a pre-release mechanic or not: it's NC. But that's not what the question's asking. It's asking how a mechanic works so they can make the determination of what they should or shouldn't do themselves

@MarkTrapp 100 levels at the rate of 59->60 progression; its really unlikely that any non-bot/farmer could possibly get 20+ even if the ridiculous retroactive xp idea was applicable

reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/yikph/…

@MarkTrapp I don't see the point in leaving a very problematic question open for the relatively short amount of time it has any kind of value.

8:05 PM

@Jin That was a fun dilemma.

Blizz South doesn't like Blizz North and they speak candidly when talking to one another.

user2334

@OrigamiRobot If it's problematic—it's attracting crap answers or baseless speculation—we should close it. It didn't even get to that point

@MarkTrapp If we have to close it later, then why leave it up? Why not just tell them to come into chat and discuss it?

It problematic in that it is a valid question in the short time between an official statement (if any) and release.

user2334

@Koviko Why have any question that is obsolete in the future? Why allow any question about WoW 4.3 when we know 5.0 is coming out next month? Games change: SE is designed to handle rapidly changing events

@MarkTrapp But we don't close questions about 4.3 after 5.0 comes out.

user2334

8:09 PM

@Koviko If a question is about a game mechanic that no longer applies, we definitely close them as too localized

@MarkTrapp What? Really?

So, for example, a question about old school ZA/ZG would be closed?

user2334

@Koviko Of course! Example, 2, 3

user2334

Minecraft seems to be the poster game for that

user2334

You can find a bunch of examples if you search for the closed questions and sort by votes

@MarkTrapp What the... It seems like it's the fault of the answers, not the questions.

Why not just get an updated answer?

8:13 PM

@MarkTrapp that doesn't seem right to me

user2334

@Koviko Because the mechanic the question asks about no longer exists, or the premise of the question fell apart after the mechanic was radically changed.

@MarkTrapp What are the consequences of user's question being closed?

user2334

@Koviko There are none. Closing is not meant to be a punishment

@MarkTrapp Then why do people get so offended when their questions get closed? I assumed it was hurtful in some way.

user2334

@Koviko I dunno: your guess is as good as mine. Gun to my head, it's because we treat it as such in comments and make the whole thing every adversarial

8:15 PM

@Koviko because there is the consequence that the question won't get answered

@murgatroid99 So, the consequence is that answers can no longer be posted?

user2334

But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Closing stops bad answers from coming in while a question is improved, too

23

A: How should we handle non-beta pre-release questions?

I suggest that these questions simply be closed and left closed for pending deletion. A suggestion that has gone the rounds has been to close the question and then reopen it when the game comes out. But I ask you, what does this do for us? I say it does nothing positive. It creates a bay for spe...

0

Q: Can I play a game installed on my Xbox with another disc?

So I have Skyrim, but part of the disc is scratched and it won't ever get passed the standard Skyrim loading screen when I try to load a saved game. If I was to install it on my Xbox with another disc (a friends) would I be able to play that installation using my disc?

The super high upvoted answer; is to close questions that are pre-release. I'd say Paragon counts are pre-release at this point

@Koviko 1) Can get pile-on downvotes by people who don't read the question. 2) No chance to get any answers unless reopened 3) Imho, likelier to be merged with similar-but-not-identical question instead of being reopened (or said Q. will be edited to be a duplicate) 4) Far harder to gather 5 reopen votes in most cases compared to close votes

8:22 PM

@Koviko right, that's what closure does: prevent answers on that question

I know that question was directed to MT but thought you may want another input ;)

@Alok There's so much to this damn site. o.o

@Koviko SE tries to be objective. People are subjective. Fun ensues :D

user2334

2

A: How should we handle non-beta pre-release questions?

Having now seen Grace Note's guidance applied in practice, I don't think a hard and fast rule is warranted or enforceable. First, it creates confusion for users by pre-supposing the only reason someone would ask a question before release is to either abuse the system or "camp" a question. While ...

user2334

Note the comment from Grace Note. Also the conversation here, here, here, and here.

user2334

8:28 PM

Misusing Grace Note's posts as a weapon is something of an Arqade past-time :P

@MarkTrapp Sometimes you need a good weapon.

@MarkTrapp Oh my God, screw this message.

I have my browser taking up half of the screen right now so I can both work and slack at the same time

And your final link runs to the edge of the box

So, whenever I roll over it to click it, the message controls cover it up.

user2334

That was intentional! My trap has been sprung!

user2334

Jul 9 at 18:10, by Grace Note

@agent86 I think it's more difference in perspective on said position.

user2334

That's all it was. Just a response to agent86 saying he always interprets Grace Note posts to mean the opposite of what they are

@MarkTrapp Thank ya.

A turtle seems to have snuck into chat.

8:34 PM

Ninnnnnnnjaaaaaaa Toitle

@MarkTrapp Actually, not the case for me (I'm relatively new). But I can see that 23 >> 2, and most policy matters here seem to come down to some kind of numerical 'proof' like this. For the record, I'd prefer if most answerable questions (beta, pre-alpha w/e) were left open, existing ones weren't edited to change the meaning, etc. ... but simple fact is, I don't see that being current policy anywhere

@Wipqozn now that there is a brony in chat, you should look at this script I made

@murgatroid99 That's pretty nifty.

user2334

@Alok The point of me linking all that is that you're misinterpreting Grace Note's post to be an unbending rule. It's not. Moreover, the guidance provided there doesn't really apply to this situation: that question is more about questions that were closed pre-release and weren't deleted before release. Do we keep them closed, or do we reopen them? Not the situation here

@Wipqozn thanks. I made it at a hackathon on Saturday

8:38 PM

Now I wonder... If I find a question that I can answer, but has been closed... How do I re-open it?

re: @Alok @MarkTrapp, since this seems relevant to your discussion... allow me to quote the PEP 8 style guide

A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds

I love quoting that rule.

user2334

@Alok Also: it's neither here nor there, but you were around the last time this came up.

user2334

@Wipqozn Call me a hobgoblin all you want: non-significant whitespace or death!

So it seems that question got re-opened.

Boo.

@MarkTrapp 'be closed and left closed' implies its not talking about already-closed Qs. Anyway, don't really care about it so I'll stop now.

user2334

8:41 PM

@fbueckert Huh. Back to tea and crumpets, then?

@Wipqozn So, I finally have some defense for deciding to use tabs to line up stuff that doesn't need to be lined up, but looks pretty when I do it?

@MarkTrapp Nah; lunch is done.

@MarkTrapp Huh - this was about an actual question about existing game content; not future patches

I'm willing to continue the discussion.

user2334

@Koviko You use… tabs for indentation? We're mortal enemies now.

8:41 PM

@murgatroid99 Might as well ping all of the bronies who might show up: @Fluttershy, @AshleyNunn, I can't think of anyone else at the moment

Which, for the record, is STILL that it's off topic, due to speculation.

@MarkTrapp I always will. But I was referring to times where i'll line up arguments of multiple function calls in a row.

And I'm not liking the thought we keep questions open until they garner crap answers; that's why we close them in the first place!

user2334

@Koviko Feh. That sin is nowhere as egregious as the tabian heresy!

0

Q: What is the name of that game?

This question is about a game I played on the PC in the 90's. It had an industrial rusty metal "danger zone" look to it. There were diffent colored balls comin down from the top in several columns. You could select a ball from any column and drop it down to the existing ones. Trying to get 3 or m...

game-identification

user2334

8:44 PM

Aha, totally called game-identification being a backdoor into ITG

2

@MarkTrapp My reasoning: 1 tab is less characters than 2 spaces. I will defend it to the death.

@Koviko just use an editor that converts tabs to spaces

@MarkTrapp I second this notion.

@murgatroid99 Why? I'm a web developer. Less whitespace = less bytes.

People who prefer spaces - how do you handle someone else having, say 8 space indentation and you prefer 2 space to fit in more stuff horizontally?

8:45 PM

@murgatroid99 Three close votes, and nobody could be bothered to post a comment about it? For shame, people.

@Koviko then use a minifier before sending anything

@murgatroid99 Then why use spaces instead of tabs?

@fbueckert it goes too fast for obvious stuff, and I don't have a pro-forma comment for that

@Koviko You can just minify/compress the dl part and not have to worry during coding phase

@murgatroid99 Neither do I. :P I just type real fast.

8:46 PM

@Koviko because then it displays consistently across editors

@murgatroid99 Why should I decide how many spaces someone else should have to look at?

@Alok I inform them that 8 spaces looks stupid and to use either 2 or 4 instead.

When you use tabs, their editor can make that decision for them.

Thank you for continuing to down vote after the question is close, and I have no option to delete.... stay classy gamers — Mike Aug 10 at 17:46

0

Q: Sony CrossBuy also for offline bought games?

I just read about Sony's newly announced crossbuy feature. What I could not retrieve from the articles is if this feature is only for online bought games or also for games that have been bought is a rl gamestore? Had sony disclosed any info about this?

8:47 PM

@Wipqozn Heh I should try that :P. Well, admittedly I usually see 4 spaces way more often

You should never mix tabs or spaces when programming. Choose one or the other, and stick with it (for the record spaces is the correct answer).

Oops I didn't know that... I found this site through the tag "game identification", though :) — noah1989 1 min ago

Burn the tag!

@StrixVaria he should have that option, though

Someone with 10k please go through gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/game-identification and delete stuff.

user2334

@murgatroid99 Yeah, it should only be restricted if there's an up voted answer

8:48 PM

Like, literally; it's very existence means people will ask those questions.

@murgatroid99 Wait...you can't delete your own question?

user2334

@StrixVaria One's deleted, but I already VTDed the others

@fbueckert not if it has upvoted answers (which means that it has generated quality content that's not yours to delete any more)

@murgatroid99 I didn't know that.

@fbueckert I ran into this once and had a mod kind of disassociate me with the question somehow instead.

@fbueckert that shouldn't have applied to the linked question, though

8:50 PM

@StrixVaria Which should be an option since continued downvotes are hurtful.

@Koviko I wasn't getting downvotes. I just wanted to not be associated with that specific content any more.

I took a rep hit to do it.

@murgatroid99 Eh. For comments like that, if I'm on the fence, those get a downvote.

@StrixVaria I meant in relation to the guy we're discussing.

@Koviko but he did have the option to delete the question (or should have had)

Hi there

8:51 PM

Welcome, @noah1989!

@murgatroid99 Maybe he didn't look for it.

Sorry for being off topic with that question...

@noah1989 Nah; it happens

Or maybe SE isn't the best thing to happen to usability since the scrollbar.

@Koviko right, but it's not our fault

8:52 PM

Shouldn't've been downvoted, though.

@fbueckert It doesn't matter now that it's been deleted

@murgatroid99 I'm referring to this question. :P

Two distinct conversations ongoing! Keep up, @murgatroid99! :P

@fbueckert same thing. If he deletes, he takes no rep hit

@murgatroid99 Maybe we should tell him.

user2334

@fbueckert That's automatic. Off-topic and NARQ questions get a -1 from Community.

8:54 PM

@noah1989 Hey, you can delete it.

@MarkTrapp Really? I keep learning new things every day!

@MarkTrapp For serious?

user2334

67

Q: Should questions closed as "not a real question" and "off topic" get an automatic downvote?

We currently have five standard close reasons network wide: exact duplicate This question covers exactly the same ground as earlier questions on this topic; its answers may be merged with another identical question. off topic Questions on Stack Overflow are expected to generally rela...

discussion status-completed down-votes close-reasons

@MarkTrapp I feel like I once knew that but I forgot

user2334

Super serial!

8:55 PM

Then there's now at least 2 consequences of getting your question closed, now.

@MarkTrapp, I think you lied to me.

@Koviko but you can always delete to get rid of the rep hit

I voted to delete it

@murgatroid99 Not always.

@Koviko True, but if your question is OT or NARQ and has upvoted answers, something weird and unusual happened

I don't care about the rep hit, though

user2334

8:56 PM

@Koviko Not even. The -1 goes away if it gets reopened. And it doesn't apply to too localized, which is what we were talking about at the time.

@noah1989 What? I don't even downvote things because I lose a rep for it!

@Koviko Not on questions you don't!

@Koviko Not on questions.

@fbueckert glare

So many things I don't know.

user2334

8:58 PM

@StrixVaria I type fast. Keep up!

OK, time to go home

@MarkTrapp lol

@fbueckert That's definitely not the reason you beat me :(

People were taking those typing test things and then Raven took it and people were like "OOHH LOOK HOW FAST" and then I took it and beat Raven's and everybody ignored me :(

@StrixVaria Less frowny faces, please.

Video games are about having fun!

@fbueckert If only the developers realized that.

user2334

8:59 PM

&]:-0*

When I need Rep, for example for a bounty, I work for it, this helped me solve a very specific problem by asking it on SO and adding a bounty

But close votes are srsbsness

Close all the things

@MarkTrapp Looking at this, the automatic downvote should encourage deletion

Thus removing the examples of questions not to ask from public eye.

Increasing the chances of dupes of closed questions.

user2334

@Koviko lest you find out about this later and say I lied about it too, there's also a ban whereby if you have a lot of closed, deleted, and down-voted questions, the system will prohibit you from asking new questions. BUT it isn't active on Arqade. Only on Stack Overflow, Server Fault, Super User, and Programmers

9:02 PM

But in general by giving good answers you get a constant rep inflow anyways because they will be found and up voted if useful

So being greedy on rep isn't rational nor efficient

@noah1989 I don't know what you are talking about, but it gives me an interesting question. @MarkTrapp, what if someone is always asking questions that get closed, but gives good answers, keeping their rep afloat?

user2334

@Koviko Having some experience attempting to maintain a set of canonical dupe targets of frequently-asked off-topic/NC questions on Programmers, it just pisses people off and acts as a giant broken window. If it's not good for the site, it should be removed as quickly as possible

user2334

@Koviko Moderator intervention.

@MarkTrapp What would you assume would be done? I mean, someone who gives good answers is technically a valuable user, right?

I say this because I used to participate in a forum and, though I was the most irritable, disrespectful user on the site, I was given a badge for "knowing my stuff"

And a lot of slaps on the wrist in my inbox.

I don't think such users exist. One who gives good answers knows how to ask a question.

user2334

9:06 PM

@Koviko When I was a moderator, it typically involved messaging the user with something like "blah blah you asked a lot of low quality questions blah blah blah here are tips for asking good questions blah blah blah we know your answers are great blah blah blah Truly Yours, Mark".

@MarkTrapp You were a mod, but not anymore? Who'd you piss off?

I have the sudden urge to poke you with a stick.

user2334

@Koviko I've been a moderator three times! Twice as an appointed mod pro tem, and a third as an elected mod for about a year. While I'm sure I pissed off a great many people, I resigned of my own volition for a number of reasons that are mostly un-TMZ-worthy

Are we still ~~fighting~~ discussing that Paragon question?

user2334

It got reopened so it's now out of sight out of mind

@OrigamiRobot I don't think so.

Rumor has it that it's alive and kicking.

9:09 PM

Stupid work tearing me away from good conflict.

user2334

@noah1989 Yeah: it's rare that you see someone great at answering questions but terrible at asking them. Usually it's either a) they don't answer at all or b) when they answer, their answers are just as bad as their questions

@noah1989 Yeah, it was more of a "what if?" kinda thing. That's pretty much how all of my questions are here in The Bridge. lol

Is it bad that I judge a user who accepts the answer that doesn't have the most upvotes?

I ran into two SO questions today like that.

I get to it, read the accepted answer, and say, "Well that sucks..."

Then I scroll down a little more and see an answer with 100 more upvotes than the accepted answer and is exactly what I'm looking for.

0

Q: At what point does ping make LoL almost unplayable?

I ask this question so that I can use it to my advantage. At what point does ping become an issue for a player? This would help me know (as a jungler for instance) who to help (gank bot more) or who to attack (gank an opposing player more) Thanks

league-of-legends

9:30 PM

@OrigamiRobot Yeah, it got re-opened.

I don't like it, but I've cast my close vote. So, eh.

@fbueckert people get too up in arms about close worthy questions being closed for the wrong reason.

You swatted this fly with a blue flyswatter but it clearly should have been swatted with the green one!

2

@OrigamiRobot Dude I don't want your blue fly guts on my wall.

9:49 PM

@Koviko Sounds like the system working. The OP got to pick his favorite answer and the community got to pick theirs.

I have also seen the opposite occur, where the checked answer is much better than the most upvoted, although that is admittedly less common

1

Q: What is the final stand in Modern Warfare 3?

I've been wondering this for a long time. While a multiplayer map is loading in Modern Warfare 3, the intel shows that if I survive the final stand I can stand up again. What does that mean and what is the final stand?

pc modern-warfare-3

@noah1989: info.sonicretro.org/… any relation to what you were asking about?

@James japanator.com/japanator-recommends-atelier-meruru-26524.phtml

@Lazers Get this outta here.

10:04 PM

Still think this site should have been named Playzers

@fbueckert It's attracted speculative answers. I've just cast my vote to close it as speculative.

@Sterno Speaking of, who first came up with "Arqade"?

I don't remember. I think the meta post about the name said, though

@fbueckert Are you trying to peer pressure me?

@James No, just pointing out that you really should grab one of these games.

If that's what peer pressure is, then yes.

Anyone else playing Darksiders 2?

10:10 PM

@Sterno I will be

@fbueckert Its the 'and a cheery cause' that make me doubt if I want to play it or not

@James Yeah, it's cheery.

The game'll still kick your ass if you're not careful, though.

I'm confused why this question is open:

-3

Q: Does pre-1.0.4 experience retroactively apply towards Paragon levels?

Does post-level 60 experience apply towards Paragon levels, or must all level 60 characters start from scratch after upgrading to 1.0.4?

@Wipqozn Read several hours beforehand

It WAS closed.

user2334

@Koviko Nick T. SE first suggested Game Council, but it didn't go over well, so they asked for ideas

@Wipqozn You mean Reopened

Yeah as @fbueckert said it was already voted to close and then opened again.

10:23 PM

@fbueckert I see.

@James any particular reason for posting that?

@RonanForman Its fun to watch?

I am only up to the second episode though, so no spoilers if you saw it all :D

@James Snape kills Dumbledore.

@Wipqozn Up to date on the discussion?

@RonanForman Derpa

LessPop_MoreFizz

10:32 PM

ATTENTION BRIDGE: You should bookmark this page because in a week it will have new information about a TWEWY sequel and if you don't know why you ought to care about that, I kind of pity you.

@fbueckert He will probably tortoise something when he has :)

@LessPop_MoreFizz I shall take thy pity!

user2334

@LessPop_MoreFizz The Whole Enchilada With Yogurt? Count me in!

Gaming Topics From Outside

0

Q: Is there any way to get out of a frozen game without going to command line?

It would be pretty simple, I hit the super key and it brings up the launcher over my frozen game. But it opens it up to search for an application. Alt-f1 should bring a keyboard controlled launcher, that would work, but it won't open in game. Only super key opens the launcher while in a game, but...

@MarkTrapp I think you're on a trollpage today.

user2334

@fbueckert Why, because I disagree with you on whether a question should be closed? I disagree with you on question handling every day

10:35 PM

Yay, the question is closed again!

@MarkTrapp No, I'm teasing you.

Yeah, we disagree a lot, but I'm OK with that.

Such is life; we muddle through.

@fbueckert Go @RavenDreamer! tortoise high five

@fbueckert \o/

@Koviko Everybody knows how I feel about those types of question. :P I make no bones about it, but I don't hold grudges if someone disagrees with me about it, either.

@LessPop_MoreFizz Meanwhile, no news on Versus :/

@fbueckert Now, I know, too.

10:43 PM

@Koviko Indeed; such is how outlook on life. Feel free to disagree with me, I don't mind.

As you did/do about the monetization thing. :P

@fbueckert 'Tis my duty to disagree. I disagree with everyone before I agree with them. And oftentimes, step 2 doesn't even happen.

One day, I'm going to monetize Arqade. I don't know how, but it will happen. And my rep will destroy all it touches.

@Koviko As long you respect my point of view while you disagree, we'll still get along fine.

@fbueckert Your point of view is that of a generic anime female!

I shan't do such a thing as respect it!

@Koviko Ok, now you're just trolling me. Gotcha.

@fbueckert I would never do such a thing as troll you!

10:46 PM

Ignores @Koviko

user image

2

@Koviko Generic anime females are harmless ... now who do you think is similar to Gasai Yuno? >_<

@Alok I was certain it was a Tenchi Muyo character.

@Koviko whaa ... no she isn't

or do you mean @fbueckert fits in there; are you slotting him as the princess, pirate or someone else :P

@Alok I'll admit, my ability to differentiate between anime females is worse than my ability to differentiate between K-Pop stars.

10:50 PM

@Koviko Watch or read Mirai Nikki

ahhhhhh, gw2 or diablo 1.04.... not enough time to play both

@Alok Bridge is telling me to experience too many different types of media. Why can't I just waste time chatting? ;_;

@Koviko Ehh ok, have it your way :)

@yx. If Blizzard is purposely trying to dip into GW2's sales, they are doing a good job of it.

@yx. Quit your job. Problem solved!

11:26 PM

0

Q: Tekkit and water tanks

I created a large quarry, flooded with water to take care of lava along the way, and now I want to empty the quarry out to get a large "room" where I can build stuff. I built a water pump in the center at the top, and I'm now slowly draining the top layers of water into tanks. When building the...

minecraft minecraft-tekkit

@yx. Guild Wars 2. Problem solved.

Wow, that Paragon question's drawn quite a bit of controversy. +4/-8, closed twice, and most comments upvoted at least once.

If we feel that strongly about it, we really should open a meta.

@fbueckert No, we shouldn't People should just realize I'm correct and stop arguing about it.

@Wipqozn Alright. I will follow this process as long as you agree with my point of view on the matter.

11:55 PM

If you stay the first 30 seconds, you'll enjoy the ride.

0

Q: What might cause and/or solve a super-noisy 3rd gen PS3?

I have a third generation 80GB PS3 which recently has started getting a very, very noisy fan within a few minutes of turning the system on (before even playing a game sometimes), like so noisy I have to crank my AV amp up just to hear in-game audio. The noise is from the fan speed and movement of...

Wooo! Runner's high!

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Aug '1220

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