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2:00 AM
No, they'll find a way to make lines.
 
I can do most stuff through the DMV online. Anything you need physical paperwork for (like to get a new license or tag, not renewal) you have to come in. It's not nearly as bad as it used to be here.
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Sorry I forgot to explain that - it was in reference to losing Solver after the age announcement
 
@HelkaHomba I didn't even know that was a thing. I do absentee voting by mail.
 
@Sp3000 So you admit it's a scam. Aha!
 
2:04 AM
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ James Berg
 
What would be the purpose of this level of trolling?
 
@HelkaHomba Perhaps he has substantial amounts of bitcoin and wants to trigger a worldwide media spike before selling?
 
Uh, nothing.
 
@Geobits Ok. -_- But I've got my eye on you!
Wow. That's a whole lot a "rarely".
 
googles name /s
 
@AlexA. Imgur far more often.
 
2:09 AM
Ooh! Ooh! @El'endiaStarman Bernie won Indiana! :D
 
s/\^\^/^/
@AlexA. :D
 
Nit: carets need escaping :P
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ s/\V^^/^/
 
The nits. They have been picked.
 
@HelkaHomba Unless he really is Satoshi and is presenting a false proof first to drag out the media attention. Or presenting a false proof to convince the world it's not him. Who knows?
 
@AlexA. \o/ :D
 
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ I "have a facebook account" the same way I "have a sense of my own mortality". I don't bother thinking about it, and in return it doesn't bother me.
 
@trichoplax Pretending to be fake by pretending to be real? That would be crafty.
 
Hey, is anyone active on TNB steam page? I'm looking for some people to play wihth.
 
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ what game?
 
Nothing to see here
 
Do you happen to know a person named Riker? And nice answer. — Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ 2 mins ago
It's not a nice answer. It's ungolfed.
2
 
2:17 AM
yeah
> (Not Fully Golfed)
I didn't see any problem with a WIP golf?
 
Ungolfed solutions shouldn't be posted
 
> All solutions to challenges should: Be a serious contender for the winning criteria in use
 
Kill the whitespace at a bare minimum imo.
 
WIP as in "not the best possible solution" applies to most, but if there is still trivial work to be done then it's not ready to post
 
2:19 AM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ IDK. I have a lot. Don't starve together or Terraria would be fun with a big group.
Rocket league's another good one.
 
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ I recently acquired Terraria now that it has a Linux version
 
It's also not a program or function; it assumes variables exist.
 
@quartata Oh nice! It's one of my favorites.
 
I can't seem to get into Terraria at all. My kid likes it, but it just feels boring to me, dunno.
 
^ s/kid/friend/
 
2:21 AM
@Geobits You have a kid?!?!
 
sighs
Yep
 
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Slang for offspring - not an actual goat
 
2:22 AM
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ I also really like starbound although I have not played in ages
 
Oh, definitely not a goat. I can't keep goats around since Marky came to stay.
 
@quartata I don't have that one. Is it good?
 
@HelkaHomba Self driving cars - for the massive reduction in road mortality
 
You should give Marky to Donald Trump and convince marky trump is a goat.
 
2:23 AM
@HelkaHomba That's a really damn hard choice between printing and cars. Both would really revolutionize things.
 
@Geobits *will
 
Right. Will.
 
:)
Not long now...
 
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ It is although last time i played it performance wasn't the greatest. I haven't played since beta though
 
The super immersive VR will clearly be used for sex at first, so I can wait on that. Fast drone delivieries are nice, but household 3D printing would reduce the need for it susbstantially.
 
2:24 AM
If you like terraria you'll love starbound though
 
@quartata I'm not super worried about performance. I have a computer that can handle it. =)
 
Every time someone says Terraria I think Tierra
 
@HelkaHomba I said drone shipments only because I don't really care about 3D printing or VR and I get carsick so I'd prefer to drive than ride in a self-driving car. At least with 30 minute shipments I can buy groceries from Amazon Fresh use them for dinner that evening. :P
 
@Geobits you couldn't 3d print a light bulb or a t-shirt mind, but a bunch of legos or new keyboard caps, sure
 
Who needs light bulbs or t-shirts in the future?
 
2:26 AM
We'll be nudists in the dark
 
@HelkaHomba Sure, lots of things would still be done the usual way, but you can print plenty of stuff too. Especially as the materials side of things improves.
@AlexA. Oh, that's a future thing? Shit.
 
@AlexA. I was thinking more efficient lighting methods and clothes, but time will tell :P
 
haha
 
I really don't like the VR at all but I'm excited for 3D printers.
 
@quartata @EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ If I set up a terraria server, would you guys want to hop on play?
 
2:28 AM
Is this a reference to Seuss' Hop on Pop? You continue to push this Seussist agenda, @DrGreenEggsandHamDJ.
 
Not right now, but sometime sure.
 
@AlexA. No need for lights or clothes in our VR worlds. Proves the cycle of human evolution.
 
No need for 3D printing, self driving cars, or delivery drones either, for that matter.
 
@HelkaHomba There's also no food in VR. Well, I suppose there could be, but it isn't nutritionally sustaining.
 
@AlexA. I have no idea what you're talking about. (hehe, I think he's on to me)
 
2:30 AM
@AlexA. The breeding vats will provide all the sustenance you need.
 
I cannot wait for those breeding vats.
3
 
But Oh, The Places You'll Go in your shiny VR world.
 
37 secs ago, by Alex A.
I cannot wait for those breeding vats.
Alex A, 2016.
 
I thought you were supposed to be a good role model Alex. For shame.
 
@AlexA. Same here. But Geo's right that 3D printing would be great. Like it's just another appliance like a washing machine and any time you need a new wastebasket or coat hanger or water bottle it's there
 
2:33 AM
Hm, true.
 
(30 min delivery may be faster but I bet not cheaper)
 
Also, you may not be able to print a t-shirt now, but if it really takes off, clothing in general could easily take a turn toward things that can be printed.
There's no real reason we have to be wearing woven fabrics, after all. It's just cheap and easy with the tech we have now.
Shoes in particular could be molded to fit your foot much better.
 
Put your foot in the printer and get a shoe printed on. Then tear it off at the end of the day and drop it back into the printer to be recycled
 
Probably wouldn't need to be leather or anything like that then. Maybe just a comfortable plastic.
If it wasn't for how slow the printers are now (12+ hours for small objects) that could be easily done.
 
They're working on some different methods that are much faster, but they present other limitations for now.
 
2:47 AM
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ maybe?
well bai for the night guys!
 
I'm looking forward to 3D printers that can source material from the environment (dead leaves, insects), and print new 3D printers
 
I think current printers use dextrose based resins.
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ 'til tomorrow
 
@quartata Closer than I thought then...
 
2:49 AM
Yeh although I assume the corn has to be processed in some way
 
@HelkaHomba Oh wow. That's very cool. Looks like you wouldn't even need stitching with that process. Imagine clothes that didn't rip or wear out at the seams, printable on demand.
 
@quartata Our grandkids will print apples in perfect spheres and wonder what it means to "pick" one o_O
 
That's it. Time to (once again) hop in my suspended animation pod for a few decades.
 
I think printers can already print food.
not very nutritious or tasty...
 
@HelkaHomba If they could print apples in perfect spheres, I don't think they'd choose apples as the food to print :P
 
2:52 AM
Chicken?
 
Spherical cows
 
french fried spheres
 
@El'endiaStarman because numbers aren't descriptive. If something is ordered, make it a list
 
or chocolate cake spheres
 
Meatballs!
 
2:54 AM
@Geobits Already happening in a way: washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/…
 
> Those who have tasted these items say they barely differ from the real deal.
I know people who say Coke and Diet Coke "barely differ" also :/
 
I can think of lots of code that has variables such as a1, a2 or x1, y1, x2, x3 and they need better names
 
@Sp3000 Why not? You could even make different spherical layers like a jawbreaker
 
But yea, lab-meat is definitely going to happen soon.
 
@NathanMerrill I agree. But that doesn't mean all variables with numbers are badly named
 
2:55 AM
@HelkaHomba "So, what's in your lunch-ball today?"
 
You literally have to eat your vegetables before you can get to your dessert at the centre
 
@NathanMerrill What about HTML5Parser?
 
@Doorknob oooh, that's a good example.
 
@trichoplax Yea, there's no way kids would figure out how to break it open and eat the middle first :P
 
lol
 
2:57 AM
@Geobits *rip it open
 
They'll also probably know how to work the printer better than their parents
 
@trichoplax Meaning they'll pirate gourmet recipes?
 
I'd also love to enforce minimum of 3 characters for variable names, but people would hate having to type "index" instead of "i"
 
@NathanMerrill Or dx, dt, pi, etc.
 
yeah
but those are less common
for index, object in enumerate(list)
that's not too bad
 
2:58 AM
@HelkaHomba That's a big may
 
@MarsUltor I was thinking they'd have sugar cubes for lunch - but that sounds more likely, yes...
 
@MarsUltor You could take the turduckhen to the ultimate level
 
@trichoplax Everyone knows 100% sugar cubes is unhealthy
 
@NathanMerrill I guess. When doing graphics, I see a whole lot of (x,y) that would be a huge pain to make longer.
 
@HelkaHomba s/he/e/
 
2:59 AM
@MarsUltor They're also not very tasty, tbh.
 
@NathanMerrill I'd argue that sometimes one or two-letter variables actually make it more readable in certain cases, e.g. matrix manipulations
 
@Geobits yeah. Unfortunately, we've assigned meaning to short variables like "x"
 
@Geobits Make the outer layer thin plastic and it's already packed!
 
@NathanMerrill Pi is pretty common. e as well
 
3:00 AM
@NathanMerrill Also, replacing i, x, y etc. with longer names would adversely impact readability
 
I would not want to do Math.EULERS_NUMBER
 
@HelkaHomba Or print fruit skin so the whole thing is sealed but edible...
 
If I had to write out horizontal_axis every time, I'd lose my mind :)
 
@quartata Nor Math.EULER
 
but "x" is just a name
 
3:01 AM
@quartata Math.NUMBER_NAMED_SIMILARLY_TO_FOOD
 
@NathanMerrill But when it's used very often
The lines will be way longer
 
@quartata I'd be fine with Math.CONSTANT_E personally
 
@Sp3000 But CONSTANT_ is reduntant
 
right, but I'm saying that if Math had simply called it "Xed" or something, then we'd all be used to it
 
@NathanMerrill Xed?
 
3:02 AM
@Sp3000 no pls
 
its an arbitrary name
instead of "x"
 
Hmm I guess it is implied by the uppercase, isn't it. nvm
 
@NathanMerrill But they didn't.
 
also, if we did use arbitrary names, then we would deal with letters having multiple meanings
 
I think there are times when "x" is not sufficient for context, and other times when it really is the clearest way. I don't think an automated process is likely to be able to distinguish which case is which
 
3:03 AM
^
 
@trichoplax oh absolutely. I'm just begrudging the fact that "x" ever was given meaning
 
Also, restrictions = even longer than Java
@NathanMerrill But mathematicians would not settle for multiple-letter variables anyway
 
@MarsUltor my language has stronger typing than Java, and will definitely have longer source code
 
@NathanMerrill I like it. I don't mind that they found a purpose for those unused letters at the end of the alphabet...
 
Firstly: algebraic multiplication
@NathanMerrill *way longer
 
3:04 AM
I don't know about way
 
I can only imagine the pain that would occur if I had to write answer = (-second_coefficient +- square_root(second_coefficient**2 - 4*first_coefficient*third_coefficient))/(2*first_coefficient)
 
Seriously, who wants to type out sigma when they could just type one letter?
 
@NathanMerrill I use x y z w h i j k a b c all the time in appropriate ways. They're short, neat, and easy to type - not arbitrary.
 
@MarsUltor you mean juxtaposition?
 
@quartata ?
 
3:05 AM
@Sp3000 no, that's doing it the wrong way. That second coeffiecient has a name.
@HelkaHomba how are they not arbitrary?
 
@NathanMerrill What would you call it instead?
 
@Sp3000 depends on the function. I'm not sure what you are doing
 
Quadratic formula
 
I think that proves it's less clear...
2
b^2 - 4ac is much more recognisable
 
@NathanMerrill e.g x y and z are spatial axes and most people will quickly realize that (maybe it was arbitrary initially but it's ingrained enough now)
 
3:07 AM
@MarsUltor Like 3x = 3*x
 
@trichoplax I wasn't arguing that it was less clear, but the problem is that once again, we attach meaning to "a" in that formula
 
@quartata Not really, I mean i everyone was forced to have >3-letter vars (inclusing math)
 
@trichoplax QED?
 
@NathanMerrill I think that's fine in context. I have a problem with just using any old letter when a word would make it clear. Where the letter already has established meaning I don't see a problem
 
@NathanMerrill How would it prevent things like aaa, bbb, ccc?
 
3:09 AM
@NathanMerrill Yeah but my point is, if the quadratic formula wasn't known for using a, b, c, what would you prefer it to have used instead? My view is that anything else would be too long to be practical
 
@MarsUltor I was referring to "algebraic multiplication"
 
@Sp3000 Because in math, the variables are few enough that one letter is enough
@quartata Yeah, but that doesn't really apply to programming languages
 
And when there are a lot of variables, they're just subscripted
 
@trichoplax Definitely. I immediately saw that as a discriminant. I wasn't sure what Sp's equation was doing
 
@quartata wait my bad
 
3:11 AM
@AlexA. What are these arbitrary letters...?? :P
 
@NathanMerrill Math also has one letter variables partly because of juxtaposition meaning multiplication
 
@NathanMerrill Because most people learn it that way, and it helps them remember
 
:P => probably kidding
 
I'd still prefer named constants
aka, Phi is a great example
 
Not pi, though. Just phi.
 
3:12 AM
@NathanMerrill phi is a letter
 
Pi is good too
 
How's phi any different to a, b, c?
 
@MarsUltor I was joking because of the discussion about arbitrary letters :)
 
that's just because greek phi is not ascii
 
because it has a longer name, and its unique
 
3:12 AM
27 secs ago, by Maltysen
@NathanMerrill phi is a letter
 
It's still just a letter though
 
@NathanMerrill Math.CONSTANT_PI is kinda ridiculous
 
Pi is good ish....we've still attached multiple meanings to it
@quartata right I'd still do Math.PI
 
@QPaysTaxes Your code goes into its address book, finds a friend in a foreign country, dials them up, and chats the day away.
 
Phi's also not unique, if I understand your meaning of "unique" correctly
 
3:13 AM
oh it isn't?
:(
 
@NathanMerrill But people might use ϕ = Math.PHI
 
Phi has sevral meanings in different fields
 
@NathanMerrill totient
 
Golden ratio, totient function, to name two
 
angle
 
3:14 AM
bah.
 
humbug
 
@quartata Math.THE_RATIO_OF_A_CIRCLES_CIRCUMFERENCE_TO_ITS_DIAMETER
 
@NathanMerrill The thing is, it's usually extremely clear from the context
 
Variables are confusing if they are too short or too long. Ideally you know your audience and judge it from that
 
@QPaysTaxes FFI?
 
3:15 AM
I see it used to denote hash functions sometimes too.
 
@HelkaHomba Too short, needs to be Math.SQUARE_ROOT_OF_SIX_TIMES_THE_SUM_OF_INVERSE_SQUARES_OF_POSITIVE_INTEGERS :P
 
@MarsUltor foreign function interface
 
@HelkaHomba Math.BASE_WHOS_EXPONENTIAL_FUNCTION_IS_ITS_OWN_DERIVATIVE ^ (Math.IMAGINARY_UNIT * Math.THE_RATIO_OF_A_CIRCLES_CIRCUMFERENCE_TO_ITS_DIAMETER) = -1 :P
@QPaysTaxes its was exponentiation: e^i*pi = -1
 
(e^i*pi)++
 
@QPaysTaxes oh lel
 
3:17 AM
i fuckin lost it at base whose exponential function is its own derivative hehehehe
 
@Maltysen s/IMAGINARY_UNIT/SQUARE_ROOT_OF_NEGATIVE_ONE/
 
POSITIVE_SQUARE_ROOT_OF_NEGATIVE_ONE
 
Could have used Math.AMOUNT_OF_MONEY_YOU_WOULD_HAVE_AFTER_ONE_YEAR_IF_YOU_PUT_ONE_DOLLAR_IN_A_B‌​ANK_ACCOUNT_AT_ONE_HUNDRED_PERCENT_INTEREST_PER_ANNUM_CREDITED_AT_AN_ARBITRARILY_‌​SMALL_TIME_INTERVAL
 
@QPaysTaxes We're helping Nathan design his new golfing language
 
@trichoplax "golfing"
 
3:20 AM
@QPaysTaxes aughh you're right, some mod move the last 15 minutes to the trash so we can eliminate this shame from the public record :P
 
@QPaysTaxes Yes
 
@QPaysTaxes yeah the, "CREDITED_AT_AN_ARBITRARILY_‌​SMALL_TIME_INTERVAL" part
 
@MarsUltor :)
 
@QPaysTaxes Here
 
Watch ya damn mouth
 
3:22 AM
@NathanMerrill anyways.... style is style. It's something personl. i don't think that pure aesthetic style should be something forced upon a user at least not like this
especilly considering it'll be impossible for you to create a style that covers everything
 
@quartata sure. I'm not planning on a minimum variable name length. There will be style enforcement, but I need to be careful with it
 
dammit a key get your act together
 
@QPaysTaxes Gosh dangit to heck >:U
 
Every time I wonder "why did I close the TNB tab", I reopen it and then I remember
 
@Quill you should stop closing it
 
3:26 AM
I usually have two or ten open.
 
@Quill But this has been a coding style discussion...
 
You should open some more.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ The best way is to probably install it from github and run it from there. I have instructions on the github for how to do that
@HelkaHomba but I don't think Martin even lives in the US
 
No he doesn't
It was a joke
 
@AlexA. I know. I was just being a smartass
 
3:40 AM
Okay
 
It'd be fine anyway, Obama isn't born in the US; Martin has just as much chance
 
@Quill wait really? Then how is he president?
@Quill ^
 
It's a joke; he never produced a birth certificate or something
 
@Quill I think he did?
 
@Downgoat Irkbot is staying python. Or maybe not.
I can't decide.
 
3:42 AM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ pls no python
 
Maybe jsify tomorrow.
 
python = evil
Python code also looks messy
 
@Quill pick random integer in range 1 - 2 with both ends inclusive.
@Downgoat -_-
@Downgoat he is lying.
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ no I'm serious
 
okai fine
js it is
 
3:44 AM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ 4 + avodad x pizza^2
 
:D :D :D :D :D
 
@Quill He did
 
@Quill parseInt("4 + avodad x pizza^2")
^^
 
You forgot the radix flag
 
3:47 AM
>>> parseInt("4 + avodad x pizza^2",10)
> 4
 
[0,1][Math.floor(Math.random() * 2)]
 
I'm looking for the programming term that includes variable names, class names, and special words like function
 
Keywords?
No
 
@NathanMerrill keywords?
tokens? (not really but w/e)
 
token includes numbers
ooh, identifier?
 
3:53 AM
@NathanMerrill You could just say "word"
@NathanMerrill "identifier" doesn't encompass reserved words
 

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