The Nineteenth Byte

3 minute close? That's too long :/

it was closed before it got into chat

that's pretty good in my book

Anything more than 11 seconds is disappointing.

epicTCK

Oh well puzzling got a redesign

6:10 PM

oooh, I could do `A

for characters

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Well, then you should've done your part and added a close vote. :p

or maybe \A

Me? I wouldn't touch C# if I had to.

What's that have to do with a close vote?

I'd have to touch it

New Main Posts

6:15 PM

1

Q: Building a Bridge

Your task is to build a bridge to connect two cliffs given an input d, the distance apart. d will always be even However, the bridge needs columns to hold it up. Each column can hold 5 or 6 spaces on each side and must have beams going down on each side. For this example: ________ ...

code-golf ascii-art

@NathanMerrill Pytek will be like Python when it comes to strings. " and ' are interchangeable, and there is no separate character type. I'll almost certainly ~~steal~~ borrow all of their string formatting stuff too.

and raw strings?

r"raw string"

are you doing r'stuff'?

ok :)

I think I do need to make strings and characters separate, so what do you think about `a to represent a character?

I think that'd be fine.

6:22 PM

the only problem is all the escaping needed on SE

`\`a`

.-.

`a

@QPaysTaxes ' is for raw strings

in python

because raw strings are useful and should be used by default

in like, 99% of the time, you want a raw string

I've never needed a raw string outside challenges here

I think your perception is skewed

I rarely participate in challenges here

When using split on strings in Java

and you want to split on a \

you need to write \\\\

6:31 PM

the other string ", will do templating, meaning that "give me $amount dollars" works (though I'm not sold on the dollar sign)

it'll also allow for \n and such

well yeah, that's why I'm saying you almost never need raw strings

so, raw strings will be faster and cleaner

the problem is that escaping causes so many bugs.

if you're doing anything more than "print this string", frequently

@QPaysTaxes by that same argument, then everybody should use C

because everything else isn't standard

perhaps. I'm ok with surprising

gcampbell

If it's a golfing language could you use Unicode symbols as part of the language?

but that adds bytes

gcampbell

true

6:38 PM

saves chars, but adds bytes

Or just use ISO-8859-N

Dennis

Still full of control characters.

I think that, as a general rule of thumb, "it will be surprising" is not a good argument against any design decision.

I'd love it if people would prefix all of their strings with r in python, but it just rarely happens

prefixing strings is awful

What does r do as a string prefix ?

6:40 PM

Objective-C and their @"", gasp

@QPaysTaxes my original argument is that it should be the default

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Nothing inside is escaped.

@El'endiaStarman as opposed to?

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ raw string

@quartata oh.

6:41 PM

@Fatalize That's because it means two different things with and without.

@QPaysTaxes In SWI-Prolog 7, " is strings, ' is atoms and ` is character codes strings :p

So if you do s = "foo\nbar"; print(s) in Python 3, you'll get foo\nbar with no literal newline.

"" is a C-style string, so char[]

i know

@"" is a NSString

6:41 PM

@QPaysTaxes right, but people should be using ' by default. If I require an additional character, people simply aren't going to use it

doesn't make it non-shitty

is it like a verb?

@QPaysTaxes an identifier, like a predicate name or a constant

@NathanMerrill I think extra char => disuse won't happen. You're already forcing people to strongly-type everything...

@QPaysTaxes I'm stating this as the style guide for my language

6:43 PM

you don't need quotes for atom normally, but if you want an atom with spaces or that begins with an uppercase you need '

@El'endiaStarman programmers are lazy. There's a reason my strongly typed language is type-inferred.

@QPaysTaxes er...not in my language.

styles are checked and enforced unless explicitly turned off

In PowerShell, " is an expandable string (i.e., variables in it will implicitly .ToString() themselves before the string is evaluated), while ' doesn't do that. The ` character is either a line-continuation mark or an escape character (used instead of \ for things like newlines).

programming language :)

sure, perhaps guide is the wrong word

@QPaysTaxes Inform?

It's like teachers who say "we're here to guide you" -- no, you're here to teach us.

wizzwizz4

6:46 PM

@QPaysTaxes I just noticed: I've seen you all around StackExchange, yet couldn't find your PPCG profile on your Sci-Fi profile. Have you... hidden it?!?

post something here

something here

@QPaysTaxes Ah, gotcha.

wizzwizz4

@QPaysTaxes a bunch == all. Huh.

> Apparently, this user prefers to keep an air of mystery about them.

6:48 PM

@QPaysTaxes msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/29dh1w7z.aspx

Underscore-underscore-int ... why, Microsoft ...

could be worse

@TimmyD you don't like python either, then?

en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/integer

like this

wizzwizz4

Never star something within two minutes of it being posted.

6:50 PM

@QPaysTaxes Apparently not

Good gravy ... how does it not just have byte

standard C++ is lacking in a lot of things tbh

std::string has practically no useful method

you can't even split a string

@NathanMerrill No, I'm not a fan of Python.

@Fatalize You can use C's strtok I suppose

It's still ridiculous that you have to use C functions to split strings in C++

6:55 PM

@NathanMerrill Whenever I'm working with Characters

Character as a type makes sense after I thought about it (casting to int and such)

but using a character literal is pretty rare

zyabin101

@Doorknob How do you read a Babble program out loud? ~_~

@zyabin101 How often have you asked that question?

zyabin101

@El'endiaStarman idk shrug But I was very interested, but Doorknob always delays the answer by an indefinite period.

7:13 PM

7

Thanks GitHub, but I'm not really into that >.> ...

hahahahaha

hmmm...python string literals are weird

I mean, if you string starts with a ", then you have to use the r' format

@NathanMerrill I don't follow

'"string' should be valid in python

I'm talking about raw strings

and you are right

r'"string'

is valid

but r"somethingelse" is valid, as well as r""somethingelse""

but if your string starts or ends with a quotation mark, then you can't use it

oooh... this means that the string "quote me' is impossible to put in a raw string

You shouldn't put that in a raw string anyways...

VTCAKAVSMoACE

7:27 PM

@ArtOfCode Ended up never finding anything wrong. :P Nice job.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I just saw your Reng answer to tangential-quadrilateral ... good gravy. There's something to be said about using the right tool for the job ;-)

@NathanMerrill just tested and even with triple quotes it still doesn't work. I haven't had reason to use raw strings so I've never run into this though...

Rust has a pretty nice system, they use r##"string"##

you can put any number of #s

which deals with the problem nicely

not pretty, but it's clear

So no matter how many #s you want in a row inside the string, you just use one more as the enclosing symbol?

Or are the "s part of the enclosing symbol too?

the "s are part of the notation

so r#"string"# comes out as string

7:31 PM

ah OK. so you could represent the whole thing as

r##"r#"string"#"##

which would be r#"string"#

Great - I get it now. That does seem fairly bomb proof

using multiple characters is pretty smart

@TimmyD :D thanks! most reng answers are like that.

For a lang supposed to be better than ><>, it's over 3x the length XD

Hah

7:39 PM

> Well, I didn't implement inequality in Reng. ... Reng doesn't have square roots, either. Nor does it have power.

Well, there's your problem.

ArtOfCode

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Excellent :P

hmmm, I actually think Go does it best

They simply make raw strings use ``, which is rarely used in HTML and the like

JoshK

How long should the person who asked a question wait until they pick the best answer?

and if you want a ` in your string, use something besides a raw string

@JoshK I'd wait a week

but sometimes I forget until months later :)

JoshK

@NathanMerrill ok thanks

7:42 PM

@El'endiaStarman shrugs I want to make a language that focuses on algorithms, so it has a minimal instruction set. I've narrowed it down so that only a number X, log_X, and addition over a stack provides a good deal of math functions. I'm crazy.

@NathanMerrill Oooh, backticks? I could do that in Pytek. I think it wouldn't be too confusing alongside the use of ` to basically substitute a variable's expression in place of it. Especially if I stipulate that it be prefixed with r.

Also, multiline strings in javascript compiler. it works for the most part

@El'endiaStarman you would need r stipulation, otherwise your code would be impossible to parse

Yeah, true.

though, I'd argue for _ instead of `

7:45 PM

Well, technically, impossible to parse correctly. :P

_ already has a meaning.

so many magic variables!

Not really?

@JoshK The informal rule is about a week. There's plenty of people that think that PPCG should get rid of the accepted answer feature, since it tends to discourage additional answers unless people are already familiar with the culture.

For example, see here and here on Meta

kysxi - good
vuxqu - new
joq - first
rufzu - last
ruqwi - long
kuqsu - great
ruwza - little
buqwa - own
bufzi - other
boxwi - old
gyfqa - right
cyqsi - big
lexza - high
dixqa - different
hyxxa - small
rysqu - large
nezza - next
hewqa - early
pyfwa - young
moxfa - important
jozqu - few
cifza - public
cyfza - bad
hoffa - same
bowza - able

Did up some adjectives.

it's kinda creepy how.... familiar... sounding some of them are.

The word gen might have become self aware

alex-is-not-gyfqa

7:53 PM

@quartata To...Lojban? :P

Oh shit, I knew I was forgetting something.

I never did negation

@El'endiaStarman No, but when I say them out loud I immediately can kinda guess what they mean.

It's something about the tone.

I don't get that sense at all.

Probably just me going nuts then.

Hmmm, how should I do negation

Definitely you going cashews.

I'm already using ! for imperative

7:55 PM

_?

Possibly, yeah.

Yeah, I think I'll do that.

verb_clause = ["?"], ["_"], (past_verb | present_verb | future_verb | progressive_past_verb | progressive_present_verb | progressive_future_verb | imperative_verb), [adverb_list], compound_noun_list, [compound_noun_list], [compound_noun_list];

I didn't golf this very well

Actually, should ? or _ come first?

Like if you had a negated question.

_?lowqi lua nyx or ?_lowqi lua nyx

?

nyx nyx nyx nyx

I think I like _? better

Yeah, same. It's clear that you're negating the question, not the next word.

7:59 PM

@quartata Happy to have helped. :D

what if you want to negate the word and the question?

is it ?_?

But you are negating the word

the verb at least

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat I can't work on Irkbot more today, but will resume tomorrow.

@Sp3000 did you use to be @Sp1000?

@quartata I don't see a "avocad" word???

@NathanMerrill _? _word, I would presume.

8:34 PM

@El'endiaStarman youtube.com/watch?v=EOtduunD9hA

@flawr Look at the star board. :P

Ninjenga.

I was still working 5h ago, that is not fair.

Hehe. Anyway, yes, that's really cool.

I haven't even finished watching=)

I also actually really like the alternate notations at the beginning. I mean, a big plus makes a lot of sense for summation...

Cyoce

8:37 PM

"if you like this, please upvote this locked post"

Great job, SE

@El'endiaStarman I dont think the Sigma is to bad Sigma=S=Sum

Pi=P=Product

@Cyoce Probably more trouble than it's worth for that banner to check the lockedness of the question.

i misread that as dennis

@flawr Yeah, it makes sense, but a big plus gets the point across immediately.

or m i the first one who is dyslexic here

8:40 PM

Hundreds of millions of email accounts breached -- reuters.com/article/us-cyber-passwords-idUSKCN0XV1I6

@El'endiaStarman Or lets replace the plus with small sigmas=)

Cyoce

@flawr Pretzel uses Σ for sum and Π for product

quick question. It looks like Unicode comes in 2 notations: U+0000 or U+00000000

57 million Mail.ru accounts, 40 million Yahoo accounts, 33 million Hotmail accounts, 24 million Gmail accounts

are those the only two? is there a page I can find them all?

8:42 PM

@Cyoce Math too=)

But what is Pretzel, except some delicous food?

@NathanMerrill UTF-8? Yyyes, I believe so. With the former, some byte values are reserved as surrogates, which is not necessary for the latter. There's also UTF-7, UTF-16, etc...

hmmm, it looks like languages pretty much support UTF-8

@TimmyD what kind of flaws ?

@NathanMerrill Takes work though, be warned. :P

I know :)

I actually plan on making all strings UTF-8

because it should really be the default by now

Wood Turned Bamboo Death Star

8:50 PM

I don't know if anyone here is into woodworking too, but I thought I'd still share this video of Frank Howarth

►

If you are a US or EU citizen and you're concerned about TTIP('s impact), we collected all trustworthy leaked documents and categorized them here: git.io/ttip. I also encourage you to share the link on social media if applicable :)

@Agawa001 The typical username/password combinations leak.

@mınxomaτ What is TTIP?

Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

@flawr Do you live under a rock? :D

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) is a proposed trade agreement between the European Union and the United States, with the aim of promoting trade and multilateral economic growth. The American government considers the TTIP a companion agreement to the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). The agreement is under ongoing negotiations and its main three broad areas are: market access; specific regulation; and broader rules and principles and modes of co-operation. The negotiations were planned to be finalized by the end of 2014, but will not be finished until 2019 or 2020, according...

@flawr google.de/search?q=ttip&tbm=nws

@mınxomaτ Do you see that little gray spot in the green area? :D

8:54 PM

I know where you live. It will still impact you.

@TimmyD typical combination ? does this leak have a known name ?

is it a breakthru to the server

@mınxomaτ Sure, but I really haven't heard of it up to now. It seems it really isn't discussed very much in the swiss media

@Agawa001 "The Collector Breach" ... "typical" here meaning that it's a gigantic database of millions of username/password combinations available out on the Internet in plaintext

So, if you use Mail.ru, for example, your Mail.ru username/password may be out in the wild

@TimmyD dear lord !

Yeah - one of the biggest ones ever.

8:57 PM

i hav a hotmail

@flawr The latter is really bad. Because it regulates global trade, hygiene and safety standards as well as surveillance.

@TimmyD does this actuality have any relation with this

And judging by what I read so far the US is putting a lot of pressure on the EU, right?