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1:01 PM
@kalina approveapproveapproveapproveapproveapprove
 
good for your suggested edits statistics
I need a moderator
 
wait we're still mostly nuking version tags right? (cringes on the mention of version tags)
 
if the question isn't specific to a version it is my understanding that yes we are
if the question does related to a specific version then no, the version tag is useful
@FEichinger hey I'm less than 100 rep behind you now
 
Make sure the version information isn't lost, btw. Edit it into the question body if necessary.
 
I'm sure I can submit another 50 edits just to be ahead of you
 
1:07 PM
@kalina Told you you'd rush past me.
 
I'm about to hit an impassable wall though
 
Well, yeh, but at least you're posting ... well, posts.
 
earned 802 reputation from suggested edits
198 reputation left to get
well
198 reputation left until I switch to tag wiki edits
 
We should change the number version tags to the codenames, e.g. 13.10 > saucy
 
@searchfgold6789 that kind of information is best suited for the tag wiki excerpt imo
 
1:08 PM
nah too much work
 
@searchfgold6789 Oh hell no.
Version tags are uniquely identifying.
Codenames could conflict with programs.
 
seriously
if you guys don't get some good candidates soon
I'm going to nominate myself
 
@kalina No.
 
@FEichinger it was a threat, suddenly a bunch of really good candidates are going to come forward
 
@kalina Bwahahahah ... Right ...
 
1:12 PM
@FEichinger i'm asking about meta answers but he posted about why he got downvotes on his question.
 
@JorgeCastro is obviously about to nominate himself
 
@kalina good candidate means me ah?
ahh lol :)
 
good candidate - somebody who isn't beaten by me in any metric on the site :p
and that isn't a very high bar
 
@kalina yes,jorge is the perfect person.
 
I've only got ~400 edits, ~150 flags, ~reasonable meta score
You've got Mitch who has nominated himself, he probably beats me at everything
 
1:15 PM
@kalina You've got me beat >.>
In what, a month?
 
who knows
my interest in this site will expire once I have all the gold moderation badges anyway
 
"answering means responsibility to other newbies in Askubuntu which is somewhere a moderator job. " ... ?? but he wants to be a mod!!
oh dear - we need more candidates - please throw your hat in the ring - pretty please
 
@fossfreedom Convince me that I'm not too inactive.
 
throw your hat in first ... then we can discuss ;)
 
(Speaking of which ... I'll probably post some meta Qs this evening.)
Doing a series on "What's wrong, Ask Ubuntu?"
 
1:25 PM
asking questions is the easy part - having answers is what we need.
 
The answers I have aren't all too popular.
 
put it down on paper ... let everyone judge.
 
They involve things like "Screw the Canonical topbar, it's doing more harm than good."
 
That said, my statistics are crap. Seriously, @kalina managed to beat me at the activity game in a few weeks.
@kalina ... QED.
 
1:29 PM
 
which tag?
 
@fossfreedom You wouldn't want me as a moderator
@fossfreedom group
there is a hyperlink just there you know
you see how the text is all orange?
 
means you can click it
opens up a new page
 
tsk ... tsk
 
1:31 PM
contains exactly what I was talking about
oh right, who turned my sarcasm dial up to 11?
it has a post-it note stating "do not turn above 9.5" on it for a reason.
 
@kalina Sorry, I wanted to see what would happen ...
 
@FEichinger 70 rep to go
I am now going to go and eat
to sustain my ability to mass-edit
all that typing and clicking burns up calories
 
@kalina ಠ_ಠ
 
@kalina done
 
@fossfreedom woo ta
Coming up next... .
possibly the most useless tag I've ever seen on any site on the internet, including blogger.
 
1:37 PM
@kalina Go eat.
 
2:06 PM
i don't know why there was large number of votes on this askubuntu.com/questions/419890/… question
 
summer is here \o/
nope, sarcasm is still set too high
it's snowing.
 
Well, here it's pretty darn sunny. :P
 
@AvinashRaj and nobody fixed the darn tags...
 
finally you does
 
@kalina can you add power-management tag for power management problems?
 
2:19 PM
I'm writing a meta post as we speak
proposing merging all of the power management tags into power management
I'm going to hold off doing more lids until that is answered
0
Q: The plethora of power management tags - what to do?

kalinaWe have a large number of power management related tags: power-management suspend standby hibernate There is also tag shutdown which is used in conjunction with power management but should be allowed to survive because of its other potential non-power-management uses. Do you think it would ...

 
2
Q: The plethora of power management tags - what to do?

kalinaWe have a large number of power management related tags: power-management suspend standby hibernate There is also tag shutdown which is used in conjunction with power management but should be allowed to survive because of its other potential non-power-management uses. Do you think it would ...

 
those are more likely xorg tags
 
Quick question about the EOL questions policy you have: Do you have a Meta discussion on that?
 
2:29 PM
We have a meta discussion about that every six months ...
 
Or to get to the point, why close questions about a release that just went EOL a couple of days ago? Shouldn't you start, I don't know, deleting the thousands of really old questions?
 
Or we close the new one so it doesn't stick around for another half a year until someone comes across it again.
 
@slhck that's the plan... just that nobody wants to take up the task :(
 
I mean, the reason I'm asking is that I had a problem with 13.04 recently, but the whole issue was because it was EOL, and if someone else has this problem, they're not going to find the question if it's deleted anytime soon.
For 10.10 or whatever, who cares, but for something that's less than a year old?
 
So, what you're really asking is if we should revise our EOL policy itself.
 
2:32 PM
No no, I'm just trying to understand where it comes from.
 
> We should close EOL questions because as a community of both Ubuntu users and internet denizens, we should want people to stop using unsupported software.
 
It's no longer supported and we only do officially supported versions, simple as that.
 
are we talking about really deleting stuff - or just closing unanswered EOL stuff?
 
I don't know, to me it'd make sense to delete it right away if it's not wanted.
 
rarely delete EOL stuff - leave that to community if it has a negative vote - we close stuff as EOL.
 
2:34 PM
So you can tell people, "this is EOL, go update your distro"?
 
that's the usual closure reason.
no need to add an answer though with that reason - just use the stock closure reason.
 
I don't see why we would (or should) go delete old answered questions
 
@JorgeCastro if the answer is mm... outdated like "hey, this stuff now works ootb" we may like to close it and delete it since is not longer relevant, if you are using non-eol
 
sure I get that
but I wouldn'
t go mass closing a bunch of stuff
 
^^^ that. agreed
 
2:38 PM
But you'd close stuff when you see it and leave other questions open even though they should be closed?
… even when it's objectively off topic per your own policies?
 
my point... you close 'em all
 
I don't close EOL questions because there are way more crap questions to use close votes on
 
Well, you wouldn't have to do that really. You could just have Stack Exchange close all where the tag is 11.10 and be done with it.
 
I don't really understand the fervor around closing 13.04 questions. Pages of bug reports, no one cares. 13.04 question? BURN THE PERSON AT THE STAKE.
@slhck Not every question tagged with a version number is version specific
 
anyways @slhck in your specific case I would downgrade to 12.04 so you get LTS
 
2:42 PM
See here's an example
0
Q: access terminal in ubtuntu

user3069326I have a couple of terminals open in Ubuntu (13.04). If I click on the terminal icon in the bar on the left side of the screen I can see all of them on my screen. However, with 1 open terminal I can't access it if I click on it in this setting (it just doen't appear after clicking on it although ...

None of this is version specific
 
@fossfreedom can you do the honors? askubuntu.com/q/418561/169736
ty
@slhck read this "NOTE: Ubuntu 13.10 (and higher) won't be supported in the repository. If you require PHP 5.4 use Ubuntu 12.04.x LTS."
 
@Braiam Yeah yeah, that's the answer to the question :P
@JorgeCastro Yeah, but then you'd have to draw a line… who decides that a problem is version-specific?
 
you can't, you have to read the question
It's a difficult problem to solve
but at the time version tags seemed to be less sucky than a new version of "How do I do Y in Ubuntu XX.XX" every 6 months
 
2:58 PM
@JorgeCastro in those case I prefer to add an answer (or edit existing) to the preexisting question with a title specifying the version it is applicable, for that there are canonical Q/A. A question that no matter when is applicable to all versions
 
Right
that's what we have for most of the ones
well, most of the ones getting most of the traffic
 
Why don't we have more nominations?
I don't see much choice.
o/ @jokerdino
 
@Mahesh easily solved -- just throw your hat in the fray
 
@fossfreedom It would be an injustice to the community on my part to contest when I clearly have difficulty making time for even chat, forget the site.
 
common problem - probably the reason for the lack of nominations
 
3:07 PM
hmm..
possible.
 
@Mahesh o/
 
I was reading through our comments on joey's article about resetting unity some days ago.
 
Don't!
 
@jokerdino Don't what? :P
 
I'm not even runnning
 
3:10 PM
@Mahesh Don't go back and visit the past.
 
@jokerdino Well, too late. I already did. mixed feelings from reading that..
 
We put ourselves in bad light, didn't we?
 
I don't know.
We may have, but it looked like we handled criticism kind of okayish, patiently explaining everything.
May be I still am biased, but I didn't think "Man, we screwed up" when reading that.
 
That's encouraging.
2
A: Asking elected moderators: Some inspiration / thoughts for current canidates

OliIt takes a while to reach a balance. I used to be the guy who answered everything. As soon as I become a moderator, I wanted to be the guy that kept us at zero flags. In my mind, keeping the site clean was the most important thing and I spent all my time doing it. Is that a real question? Is tha...

That's an abuse of codeblock Oli.
 
-1
Q: My question was closed by what I consider over-zealous moderation

bigbadonk420Here's the question. It was closed simply because I tagged it as "14.04" (I am using Xubuntu 14.04 which is not released yet). However, the question is not specific to 14.04 in any way, it is specific to Thunar 1.6.3 which has been released for almost a year. The moderator that closed my question...

 
3:34 PM
@hbdgaf nah, I don't think he is following it. (github account active 9 months ago) and he probably hit one of "those" bugs that was feature removed. I see you commented ;)
 
@BrunoPereira Don't be too hard with the guy..
 
Oli
@jokerdino It is. I'll try   instead to preserve the indents.
 
We do allow questions asking how do I do xyz with abc tool, so why not this?
 
@Mateo yeah. they pulled almost all of the thing you need to snoop on the data directly. the appsink 'pull-preroll' signal doesn't work either... which is how you should do it...
afaict this should work, but doesn't:
def get_frame(self, offset=5, fname=sys.argv[1]):
    pipeline = Gst.parse_launch ('filesrc location="' + os.path.abspath(fname) + '" ! videoconvert ! pngenc ! appsink name=sink')
    pipeline.get_state(Gst.CLOCK_TIME_NONE)
    pipeline.set_state(Gst.State.PAUSED)
    pipeline.seek_simple(Gst.Format.TIME, Gst.SeekFlags.FLUSH, offset * Gst.SECOND)
    pipeline.get_state(Gst.CLOCK_TIME_NONE)
    sink = pipeline.get_by_name('sink')
    my_buf = sink.emit('pull-preroll')
    pipeline.set_state(Gst.State.NULL)
 
hm
 
3:42 PM
it just is. no crying over spilled milk. move along.
 
ouch. questions are averaging a half point :(
 
I was in the process of writing up a meta Q about low voter count, so I made a query for statistics ... I was shocked.
The large ditch seems to start around Feb/Mar last year, interestingly.
 
Right before a release date? I guess that figures. Stress levels for avid users were higher then and I think it's just about the last major site cleanup time-frame too.
 
3:57 PM
@FEichinger then again, we didn't used to get as many of these askubuntu.com/questions/419964/…
 
@hbdgaf Of course. But these problems are all interconnected.
 
We're just supposed to know if they're using virtualbox, vmware, openstack, etc etc. But, yeah I suppose I see what you mean.
 
Lack of good answers stems from lack of experts stems from crap questions stem from low moderation stems from low amount of high rep users stems from low voter count.
 
I suppose it could be made a circular logic problem. I'ld look at the longer term trend lines and see if the down-trend started when we started getting loads of ZOMG I hate unity rants and just picked up downward momentum.
I'ld also look for significant changes around release cycles.
I say that because my guess is that the people that were reading and voting tend to get pretty burned when stable drops and you get the surge of bug questions.
Your other problem is that your caps lock appears to be broken. Please edit your question. — hbdgaf 50 secs ago
 
Oli
@jokerdino You don't think I was too brutal though? I think some people think we sit around on beaches sipping Mai Tais while deleting swathes of accounts because we want to. It's hard to capture how abrasive it can be at its worse.
 
4:11 PM
@hbdgaf It now groups by months, as well. Graphifying the data right now.
 
@FEichinger I'ld be genuinely surprised if my guess is wrong, but it's possible. We'll see.
Does anyone know of a website that holds usage statistics specifically for linux applications sorted by application type? Percentage using which web browser - percentage using which email client - etc etc
@AvinashRaj why on earth would you want that on meta?
 
@hbdgaf link wrongly posted dmn kybd
 
@FEichinger it appears my suspicion was correct
 
4:22 PM
@oli does the job
0
Q: How do I change my username on ask ubuntu?

raj legalHow do I change my Ask ubuntu username because I pressed enter by accident and now I have this one.

 
0
Q: How do I change my username on ask ubuntu?

raj legalHow do I change my Ask ubuntu username because I pressed enter by accident and now I have this one.

 
i'm the first
 
@Mateo that's possible... or crawling launchpad ppas to see what edgers are using. i didn't know if there was a canonical data set for that type of thing
 
Can anyone make a userscript based on this concept design?
It looks awesome
 
^-- Across site lifetime. Beta is cut at the top.
 
4:33 PM
@AmithKK that might take a lot of work
O_o
 
@FEichinger looks like we rally a little before release, then tank at release with a steady decline generally over time.
 
Pretty much, yeh.
 
when did they put AU in the installer as a go-to support site instead of a general knowledge base? that would be an interesting line to snap on the grid
 
@FEichinger what is this graph supposed to show?
 
@kalina Average score per post.
 
4:37 PM
also the release of unity, would be good
 
ah
well yeah, that demonstrates the lack of voting problem
this is why I don't think you should elect any of the candidates who don't have electorate
 
that's already there - 12.04 release cycle is pretty obvious, but i guess it's not general knowledge everyone jumps straight to
 
those people are taking part in actively killing the site
 
@kalina I'm fetching the data for SO and Arqade for comparison right now.
 
@FEichinger similar graphs for sure
 
4:39 PM
@hbdgaf wasn't unity in a prior version?
 
the Arqade one shouldn't drop as low though
 
@Mateo You could get it in prior versions, but it became the default in 12.04 LTS
 
The graph is also very left-biased.
 
that confused me for a moment there
 
I'm using CreationDate, not the actual vote date.
 
4:39 PM
ah, ok
so riding the wave of 9.04...or 10.04?
 
@FEichinger why don't you use the vote date?
 
@kalina Because the queries would take too long if they were to aggregate the actual votes, instead of the post score.
 
@Mateo you have to lop off the first six months to a year of the graph because everything was new. then take in to account pre-release clean up events. see how the reduction in noise makes it easier to vote on good questions? then most questions posted just after release are bugs... so it tanks. i just think the SNR has been growing out of control.
well shrinking, but you know what i mean.
 
SO and Arqade respectively.
 
I presume arqade peaks are from new released games...
 
4:49 PM
I'm not sure Arqade is a fair comparison since new games coming out all the time don't exactly relate to a release cycle. SO is probably a closer correlation because there are only so many languages with so many logic problems.
 
wonder if those can be lined up with the number of users
 
@hbdgaf The result is the same: New posts don't generate nearly as much score.
And that's not just posts having more time to get votes - there's visible dents in the graph where it just plummets down.
 
Yes, I can see that. SO is a steadier decline, where our curve is much less steady with dips hard after release. Are you seeing something else?
 
Ideally, the graph should look like SO's graph.
A steady line slowly going down.
Simply due to how it's aggregated.
What we get, instead, is a much faster decline over the last few months.
 
These graphs would be more meaningful with the plot of the post counts (the denominator) too.
 
5:02 PM
@FEichinger this should work
select sum(votes) as votes, orderbyYear, orderbyMonth from (
  select
    case
      when votetypeid = 2 then 1
      when votetypeid = 3 then -1
    end as votes,
    datepart(mm, creationdate) as orderbyMonth,
    datepart(yyyy, creationdate) as orderbyYear
    from votes where votetypeid in (2,3)
) votes group by orderbyYear, orderbyMonth order by orderbyYear, orderbyMonth
 
@kalina ... I was just writing that ...
 
yes well my sql is better than yours
:p
I'm going home now BAI
 
@kalina o/
 
(you should test that though)
it executed with no errors and therefore it must be right
but that's the extent of my testing
 
0
Q: Is it possible to add granular permissions on a folder without installing acl?

codecowboyI have a folder public_html with several subfolders on Ubuntu 12.04 server. Is it possible to add different permissions on individual subfolders for individual users without changing the group ownership of the folders or interfering with apache permissions? If so, how? I would like to add two ...

 
5:06 PM
@kalina my app didn't crash when i ran it... test complete ;)
 
Oh I don't get to leave yet
Somebody parked in front of me
 
5:19 PM
Chatting while driving... No problem
 
You should def not do that... I'ld hate to feel responsible for body damage to you or your vehicle.
 
@kalina Stop it.
 
@Mateo - still around?
 
5:34 PM
0
Q: flagging a question that is taking lots of "thanks" comments

Mina MichaelI know that questions taking comments as "thanks" and "me too" should be "protected" from that, right? Well how do I do that?

 
sup @Mahesh - how are things in the ubuntu settings tool arena? i'm working on something with Mateo. started as something small and ballooned really badly.
 
@hbdgaf its prettymuch stagnant. I work on it once in a while. i've gotten busy these days, and now its more of bug squashing and finishing the grand rewrite I started a year ago. :P
 
yeah. that's how it goes i think. it's "get it working" kdone. "shouldn't it be more like this?". starts over from scratch.
 
:P
yup that.
 
if you guys are using hotkeys and you want them global at all, i'm working on something more intuitive for that.
 
j0h
5:44 PM
0
Q: where are pannel aplet infomations stored?

j0hI had an Ubuntu installation that no longer boots. I had mate-panel. There were useful bits of code I wrote into the custom panel applets. where is the information about custom application launchers stored inside of mate panel?

Can i get that un froze?
 
@hbdgaf actually, no hotkeys at all, but sounds interesting. whats that?
 
it's essentially a user-mode keylogger for global keypress tracking with a state-table so you can register global hot-keys with callbacks and not worry about what you're stepping on.
or traps. i hate it when things trap keys or my window loses focus and i have to fight with things.
think alt not working in wine with unity...
 
Ah...
Sounds good, how'z it coming along?
 
Is this accurate?
 
@Mahesh everything but the keystate table is done. it's an adaptation of a piece of code from somewhere else. i have to fix some bugs in the mouse tracking too, but that's a different barrel of monkies.
 
5:55 PM
@Seth Must be. data.SE is not behind the live site by much.
@hbdgaf What language are you working on?
 
Hmm... My profile says I've been a member for 2 years, but I joined the month jrg was elected, wasn't that 3 years ago?
 
@Mahesh python3.x
@Seth that might round down.
 
@Mahesh The SQL doesn't sound right for reviewing though.. of course, I don't know SQL but...
@hbdgaf must be.
 
2 years 11 months could logically round down to 2
 
@Seth definitely more than 2 years ago. I was here for 2 years and jrg was consumed by the evil diamond long before that
 
5:57 PM
@hbdgaf Most illogical logic I've ever seen..
 
@Seth drop fraction is less expensive than round
makes sense to me...
 
@hbdgaf true. I didn't think of it that way.
blame @JeffAtwood
 
I find myself in good company.
 
We are debating the cost of drop fraction vs round, when atleast a sixth of the planet's population has a device within reach that is far more capable than the one used on Apollo mission.
Actually, doesn't my statement sound illogical?
 
Yes, but thrust vectoring is much less complicated than managing stats for a bazillion (exaggerates everything) users.
 
6:00 PM
@Mahesh Aha! That isn't top reviewers, that is top suggested edit reviewers. Big difference.
 
time for me to actually work on my notes and then sleep.
@Seth Ah. Yup.
Mis titled.
 
yeah
 
BBT
Good Night
 
@Mahesh nice work on that answer!
 
I'm starting to think Thunar is nicer than Nautilus. Especially the "open terminal here" feature.
 
6:10 PM
@Seth there's a nautilus extension for that. i like thunar though.
 
@hbdgaf I used that extension, didn't work all that great and got removed when I upgraded :-/
 
Fair enough. I'm on XFCE with thunar by default, so I shouldn't tell people with nautilus how to do things.
 
I'm sure the plugin is great for some people.
 
ctl-alt-T/cd something is faster than mousing around for me anyway....
hiya @JorgeCastro - long time no see.
are you excited about the juju charms that crux on nginx now that it's going to be in repo?
 
@hbdgaf I think you meant @JorgeCastro ?
 
6:15 PM
^^ thanks
 
yeah! nginx in main will be awesome
 
i think it will unlock LOADS of charm development for stack deployment
how much cooler is juju deploy my-django-stack than michal.karzynski.pl/blog/2013/06/09/… or pastebin.com/pnnusVk4
 
6:31 PM
> 136 rows returned in 72167 ms
 
6:43 PM
I don't seen any instructions.. so I guess I have to do something?
nevermind. got it.
 

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