The Frying Pan

Cindy

12:03 PM

Hey guys!

I should get my laptop some time tomorrow.

Must have missed everyone.....

Stephie

@Cindy Miracles are bound to happen...!

Hi, btw.!

Cindy

@Stephie Hello!

Stephie

So you are still watching out for the delivery guy? And when does your company expect you to be on the road?

Cindy

@Stephie No, my manager sent me the tracking info. Re being on the road, I don't really know yet. I know it won't be this week.

ElendilTheTall

@Cindy here!

Cindy

12:15 PM

@ElendilTheTall Accounted for!

rumtscho

@Cindy so your normal job won't be done from an office, but you'll be travelling?

ElendilTheTall

@Cerberus factoids are false, so that's good

Cindy

@rumtscho The most basic structure is 2 days each week in home office and 3 days in the field. But it is flexible and does vary depending on circumstance.

rumtscho

OK, "in the field" means you visit customers? Or branches of your own company?

I realize I don't actually know what your new job is

Cindy

In the field can mean I'm working with my reps, auditing customers, or attending a meeting.

ElendilTheTall

12:21 PM

auditing customers?

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall Clarification - checking the work of my reps and satisfaction of the customers.

rumtscho

"my reps" - the company is selling stuff and you are the boss of the people who sell?

ElendilTheTall

Noted with thanks

@rumtscho basically Cindy is a massive drug dealer

* may not be true

Cindy

@rumtscho Essentially, yes. But the reps have additional responsibilities, as well.

rumtscho

haha, my next question was "what does the company sell"

ElendilTheTall

12:24 PM

like making sure bitches stay off their patch

Cindy

@rumtscho Front end products, hba, otc, etc.

@ElendilTheTall Exactly!

rumtscho

Is "front end products" an industry specific term?

Cindy

@rumtscho Yes, I would think so.

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho Cindy likes to throw these initialisms in like we know what on earth she's going on about

@NadjaCS you are sleepwalking

quick, what's your PIN number?

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall Well, I should have said 'front end products such as hba and otc'. That probably would have made more sense.

rumtscho

12:31 PM

otc is "over the counter" as in medicine?

Iäve never heard of hba

Cindy

@rumtscho Yes. Hba = health and beauty.

ElendilTheTall

O.o

How does Hba translate to health and beauty?

rumtscho

and your reps go to pharmacies and convince them to provide counter space for your products?

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall Specifically 'health and beauty aids'.

ElendilTheTall

ah

rumtscho

12:39 PM

"aids" as in pills, or machines?

is a lotion against wrinkles a hba, or is a face massage tool a hba?

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall Some people alternatively use hbc - health, beauty, and cosmetics.

ElendilTheTall

you could use PIAAS - paraffin with an insignificant amount of active substance

Cindy

@rumtscho Technically it can be anything found in that department of a store. Soaps, shampoo, first aid, lotions, deodorants, oral care, etc. The list can be endless.

rumtscho

I see, it's a broad category.

I have to go to the doctor's, see you later.

ElendilTheTall

cya hon

hope it's fruitful

Cindy

12:44 PM

@rumtscho See you later! Good luck!

I'm off to fix breakfast. Back in a few. :)

ElendilTheTall

cya

Gigili

1:07 PM

Hallo

A fugitive (or runaway) is a person who is fleeing from custody, what is the one who has helped them flee called? the individual providing the grounds for escape

ElendilTheTall

@gigili hmmm

accomplice I suppose

there is no word for that specific situation

Gigili

hmmm? No single word?

So is calling the person "the individual providing the grounds for escape" OK?

ElendilTheTall

what's the context?

the legal term is accessory I believe

but accomplice is the best fit

the definition from Google: a person who helps another commit a crime.

Gigili

Here's the context:

If a person helps the one who has committed an intentional offence escape, he is required to hand over the fugitive. In cases of murder and bodily harm crime causing dismemberment or Mutilation or property damage, ...

ElendilTheTall

What is the sentence you are actually hoping to write?

rumtscho

1:17 PM

I seem to be more worried than I realized ;(

ElendilTheTall

hmmm?

rumtscho

Waiting at the doctors office

ElendilTheTall

ah

stay cool

rumtscho

A family hust got called in

The child, around 10, had a CI

ElendilTheTall

CI?

rumtscho

1:20 PM

My first thought was "now Ill be just another annoyance compared to this case"

Cochlear implant. I only saw one side. But it means hes si deaf at least on one ear, he had notging left to anplify wirh a hearing aid

ElendilTheTall

ah yes, I've seen them

rumtscho

And he had to go through brain surgery at 10 or less

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho tut. just because your complaint is less serious than it could be doesn't mean you are less deserving of treatment

rumtscho

I know. But my rights are one thing, the enotuonal reaction of the physician is another

ElendilTheTall

if they are any kind of physician it shouldn't make a difference

rumtscho

1:25 PM

If they are any kind of human, its impossible to not make a difference

ElendilTheTall

nonsense

this guy is an ENT specialist?

rumtscho

A, hes out. Only one ear has a CI. At least lucky in that respect.

Althozgh he had something scar like above the other ear, si maybe hes troubled there too. I dont know if people do CI with one hale ear at all, many are a bit scared.

The doctor is ENT, yes. With his own practice. I found the ones at the university clinic to be not very helpful. Too overworked.

Oh, and I have to tell the doctor something he wont like

ElendilTheTall

So he's seen every possible ENT related problem going

he is used to treating each case on its own 'merits'

rumtscho

I stopped the medicine he prescribed due to its side effects

ElendilTheTall

if he treated every patient like "Well, it's not throat cancer so what are they whining about" he would soon be struck off

rumtscho

1:36 PM

Hehe, right. I didnt mean that he wont afree to treat me. I meant specifically that I mean to reqzest days off work even though I cozld do my job if I push myself through the symptoms

ElendilTheTall

well, I don't think your request is unreasonable

no one should have to 'push through' symptoms to work; no job is more important than your health

rumtscho

Also, I think he sees very little of both meniere and cochlear implants. Both are quite rare. And frankly, he has some large holes in his understanding of meniere.

+no job is more important than your health+ is certainly right
Sorry for bad punctuatuon, xant find some symbols on phone kbd

ElendilTheTall

No problem

You forget, I used to converse with jojo pre-dragon. I am using to demangling gibberish

:D

rumtscho

The thing is, if such events start occuring every week, i cant take two days off every time

ElendilTheTall

well, I imagine you can, actually

up to a point

rumtscho

1:41 PM

Maybe im legally allowed to, but i dont see how i can find a job once this one is over

ElendilTheTall

are you on a fixed term contract?

rumtscho

Yes, ending at the end of this year

There is some chance of extension for one more year

But as time marches on, it seems less likely

And even if I have one moreyear, it wouldnt hekp in the long term

ElendilTheTall

are you legally required to declare medical issues to potential employers?

rumtscho

I dont know about legally, but if something prevents me from working 40% of the time, i cant imagine not telling

ElendilTheTall

well, as you don't know how much it will happen if at all, I wouldn't worry about it yet.

I certainly wouldn't declare it to anyone unless I knew it would have an effect, and how much

rumtscho

1:49 PM

I wouldnt vring it up in an interview if the eoisodes turn out to be rare

But last monday, I had my worst event since the start

Today is weaker, but freakishly soon

ElendilTheTall

Well, there might be more, or it might be the last one you'll ever have. You don't know, so it's pointless worrying about it

rumtscho

Im not worried about ÷i wonder how many ill have÷

Gigili

@ElendilTheTall In cases of murder and bodily harm crime causing dismemberment or Mutilation or property damage, when arrest of the accomplice may result, in appearance of the accused or in accomplice making the accused appear, the court must arrest the accomplice demanded by the victim or victim's heirs until apprehending the accused is done.

Does it make sense to you?

rumtscho

My thinking is more like ÷it may be so little that it does not interferevwith my life. It may be so much that i cant escape a disability certification, or letting them kill off my inner ear. Or it can be in the middle, so that I can have a nice life eith some careful management. Now, what will this managemenz be?÷it

Gigili

@rumtscho Are you on mobile phone?

It replaces a word with division sign, I guess

ElendilTheTall

1:56 PM

@Gigili Nope

> in appearance of the accused or in accomplice making the accused appear,

Gigili

Pah

ElendilTheTall

makes no sense

the rest of it needs restructuring and punctuating

what do you mean by 'in appearance of the accused or in accomplice making the accused appear,'

?

Gigili

Oops, I guess I wanted to say "presence" instead of "appearance"

ElendilTheTall

'in accomplice' makes no sense also

Gigili

it results in accomplice making/persuading the accused show himself

Better?

ElendilTheTall

2:03 PM

not really, sorry. it's a bit of a mess

what is the general idea of what you're trying to say?

For the crimes listed...

if they arrest the accomplice...

Gigili

Article 434. Whenever an individual provides the grounds for the escape of a person who has committed a deliberate act of crime, the former shall be obliged to deliver the latter. If, in cases of murder and crime against body organs leading to dismemberment or physical defects or the loss of an interest of the injured party, the detention of the individual providing the grounds for escape contributes to the perpetrator’s appearance or to the person providing the grounds for escape being obliged to make the perpetrator appear, the court shall—upon the demand of the avenger of blood—detain th…

@ElendilTheTall This is the text I am proofreading

ElendilTheTall

Ok... and you're trying to reword it or what?

Gigili

2:20 PM

Yeah. rewording

ElendilTheTall

Whenever an accomplice provides the means for the escape of a person who has committed a deliberate criminal act, the former shall be obliged to deliver the latter TO WHERE/WHO?.

If, in cases of murder and crime against body organs leading to dismemberment or physical defects, or the loss of an interest of the injured party, the detention of the accomplice contributes to the perpetrator’s appearance, or to the accomplice being obliged to make the perpetrator appear, the court shall—upon the demand of the avenger of blood—detain the accomplice until the perpetrator is arrested.

If the perpetrator dies, it becomes impossible to arrest the perpetrator, or the avenger of blood assents before the perpetrator is arrested, the accomplice is released. The avenger of blood may, in all cases of soul or organ avenge MAKES NO SENSE, claim blood money from the possessions of the perpetrator or the accomplice, if the perpetrator dies or it becomes impossible to detain the perpetrator. The accomplice may, after paying the blood money, claim such money from the perpetrator.

> the accomplice is released.

'is' is the wrong tense here

but if this is some kind of law or guideline, the wording is important to replace it

you could say 'the accomplice may be released', but that leaves room for whoever's detaining him to not release him

or you could say 'the accomplice should be released'

or you could say 'the accomplice must be released'

Gigili

@ElendilTheTall to the government? Jail?

ElendilTheTall

something like 'to the relevant authorities' would probably work

Gigili

@ElendilTheTall Got it, thanks

ElendilTheTall

'crime against body organs' is an odd phrase

'bodily harm' would be better

Gigili

2:31 PM

@ElendilTheTall Yeah, that's the one I replaced the odd phrase with

ElendilTheTall

> in all cases of soul or organ avenge

that might be 'in all cases of mental or physical harm'

what is this for, out of interest?

Gigili

I don't know, since I work for a translation company I take projects and deliver them to the customers without getting into the details of where it will be used

ElendilTheTall

ah, ok

what are you translating it from? Farsi?

Gigili

Yes

ElendilTheTall

so how much shall I bill you for my services? :D

Faheem Mitha

2:44 PM

@ElendilTheTall You could charge her in oranges.

ElendilTheTall

I am allergic to oranges

Faheem Mitha

@ElendilTheTall Seriously?

If so, sorry to hear it.

ElendilTheTall

I am allergic to fresh fruit in general

Oral allergy syndrome

Oral allergy syndrome or OAS is a type of food allergy classified by a cluster of allergic reactions in the mouth in response to eating certain (usually fresh) fruits, nuts, and vegetables that typically develops in adults with hay fever. OAS is perhaps the most common food-related allergy in adults. OAS is not a separate food allergy, but rather represents cross-reactivity between distant remnants of tree or weed pollen still found in certain fruits and vegetables. Therefore, OAS is typically only seen in tree and weed allergic patients, and is usually limited to ingestion of only uncooked fruits...

Not allergic in the sense that I will go into anaphylactic shock or anything, but it is intensely irritating to the point that I basically cannot eat fruit and some raw nuts

Gigili

@ElendilTheTall a heaping bowl of fesenjan and some tahdig?

ElendilTheTall

@Gigili now you're talking... but the tahdig will also have to be heaping

Faheem Mitha

2:55 PM

@ElendilTheTall Oh, I've never heard of this before.

ElendilTheTall

@gigili and there needs to be some zereshk in there too somewhere

and that smoky aubergine dip

@FaheemMitha a relatively small medical cross to bear

Gigili

@FaheemMitha Oh, so that's the way you charge people for the services they provide to you? makes notes

@ElendilTheTall takes notes

Thank you for your help @Elendil

Faheem Mitha

@Gigili It was intended frivolously.

ElendilTheTall

no problem

Faheem Mitha

3:10 PM

@Gigili And you may have meant "for the services you provide to them".

rumtscho

3:24 PM

OK, doctor odysee over for today

I got written sick until end of the week, but it was a theatre

and not in the way I expected

the ENT doctor was quite forthcoming with writing me sick for the new hearing loss

I had to mention it, but not ask or even beg

but his office only gave me the attest from today

because even though they are allowed to backdate it for yesterday, I did not have an ENT diagnosis yesterday during worktime

but the work regulation is: I am allowed to be away from work for up to 3 days without a doctor's note. But if I am away for more than 3, the note has to cover the whole time since the first day.

So, I wouldn't have been able to use the ENT's note

I had to go to my family physician

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho well, there you go. Now you have a week of rest to plan for

rumtscho

I explained what happened, and he gave me the note starting monday

in fact, he gave me a note for the whole week with the two diagnoses on it, saying that it would be probably too confusing for HR to get two separate notes overlapping

@ElendilTheTall I have so much dissertation stuff to do! But I plan to take it slowly indeed

I'll probably have to set myself timers for short periods of work and long breaks

else I'll work through and then stand up from the computer and notice suddenly that I'm dizzy and overtired

@ElendilTheTall thank you for holding my hand over the internet during the doctor's office wait

ElendilTheTall

3:42 PM

@rumtscho any time :)

Faheem Mitha

Hi @rumtscho. I hope you are doing Ok.

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho there's an app idea there. Virtual hand holds for people who need one. Instantly connect to someone to a hand holder.

Bah, phone. You get the idea.

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall I don't know about an app. A large part of why it works is that you know the person doing the hand holding.

on the other hand, there are cuddle groups for strangers, so maybe there is a market

Jolenealaska

5:51 PM

@rumtscho are you still here?

ElendilTheTall

@jolenealaska I am, if that interests you at all

Jolenealaska

of course it does :)

ElendilTheTall

You're just saying that <blushes>

rumtscho

@Jolenealaska yes, although not all the time at the computer

did you sleep well?

Jolenealaska

@rumtscho what you have said lately brings back memories of my first few months with an MS diagnosis.

Yes, I slept well. I have an errand I have to run, but I woke up with my usual AM double vision. AArrgghh.

ElendilTheTall

6:04 PM

What happens if you close one eye?

Out of interest?

Jolenealaska

I've got about a half an hour to try to get to being able to drive.

@ElendilTheTall I do that so naturally that sometimes I don't realize that I'm doing it.

The double vision goes away, but of course I have no depth perception that way.

rumtscho

@Jolenealaska is there something you can do about it? Or is it simply a matter of wait it out?

@Jolenealaska in what ways?

Jolenealaska

@rumtscho anything that "wakes me up" helps. Chatting here and a cup of coffee is probably my best bet to be able to leave in a half an hour.

@rumtscho it's hard to explain in a nutshell, but a new scary diagnosis has a way of permeating everything. We give it unnecessary power over our lives.

let me give you an example, something that both of you can probably relate to in different ways.

rumtscho

@Jolenealaska yes, I've read about the danger, but this doesn't make it disappear

Jolenealaska

no, knowing about it doesn't make it disappear, but it is possible to fight it back.

rumtscho

6:13 PM

ok, I'm listening to your story. Didn't mean to interrupt.

Jolenealaska

In the past few months I have lost any semblance of fine motor skills in my right hand.

@rumtscho You didn't :)

my right leg is very weak and nonresponsive.

That makes driving really hard, and dangerous. I sometimes have to physically lift my leg with my hands to move from the gas to the brake.

So, in order not to kill myself or anybody else on the road, I have to avoid needing to brake suddenly. the VA will pay for hand controls and train me to use them, but even that's going to be difficult because I'm going to need a "left-handed" version, even though I am very right side dominant.

I drive very slowly and ignore honking.

I have a "comfort zone" of a few roads that take me most places I need to go, and even a tighter perimeter where I even know exactly where I want to make lane changes.

having to use my left hand the things I have always used my right hand is really challenging not only because I am very right dominant, but because (Tall will understand this) everything is engineered for use by the right hand.

rumtscho

I think I can relate - last week, I (thought I needed to) knit something backwards

I learned knitting when I was 4 or so, I've never had trouble producing perfectly fine, even-tensioned loops, even though I'm not a speed knitter

now I had to knit in the other direction without turning, which is mostly the same thing as knitting the way a left handed knitter would (I won't bore you with the technical details of where the small difference is)

Jolenealaska

The right side difficulties are not going to go away. Is a progression of the disease, not an exacerbation. So, I can not do things that require dominant hand fine motor skills, or I can become left-handed at 48.

rumtscho

after an hour of exercise, I found a way of doing it, extremely awkward and slow and unpleasant, with uneven ugly effects :(

So I have some idea of what is involved in the difficulty of one switch

of course, the idea of having to switch everything, and probably forever, and that due to a stupid, unfair disease which makes life difficult on every step and now adds that on top - I don't claim to know what that is like.

Jolenealaska

6:30 PM

so, I can legitimately say that I can't write with a pen and paper because I can't use my right hand, or I can take it as a challenge to learn to use my left hand to write. 15 years post-diagnosis, the choice was easy. It would not have been easy had I been dealing with this particular difficulty when I was still thinking of it as a "stupid, unfair disease".

I think of it now as playing the cards I've been dealt.

Only chronic, intractable pain with no relief or end in sight can cause me to fold. Barring folding, all I can do is make the best hand I can.

I am forever making little tools for myself, little workarounds, little cheats.

rumtscho

well, we still have to give up some things. With a chronic diagnosis, it's impossible to keep everything.

I have actually surprised myself a lot by my choices in that area

Jolenealaska

for example?

rumtscho

For example, I'm not willing to give up the kayak. Even though it means I can drown. (Although this might change after I experience a full incapacitating episode and the danger becomes more "real" to my emotional I)

but I gave up cheese.

Jolenealaska

cheese?

rumtscho

Reduced salt has been recommended for MM (short for Morbus Meniere) since the early 20th century

there are no firm data on it, sadly

but recently, there is a theory that the whole thing is related to a specific hormone, vasopressin

which regulates the amount of water kept within blood vessels and lymph-filled cavities (such as the inner ear)

Jolenealaska

6:39 PM

my double vision is cleared up enough that I can drive, and I have to make a cash deposit to keep my rent check from bouncing (pita), so I have to run do that.

This will only take a few minutes, I hope you are both here when I come back.

rumtscho

so, the recommendation to eat < 1 g salt per day is rather popular

I can never get it so low

but I gave up a ton of foods I enjoy

yes, go

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho I feel your cheese pain

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall yes, I know :( we are fellow non-eaters now.

It's not exactly the same pattern of abstinence: it's not just ripe cheeses for me, I can't have feta either. Basically, out of the salted stuff, only Emmental and mozzarella are low enough to not max out my salt allowance from a single teaspoon.

and I can still have quark. I guess there are a few other unsalted cheeses, but haven't seen them.

but your diet is quite restrictive in other ways. With me, it's not a case of "certain trigger" - if I mistakenly eat something with more salt, I probably don't get an episode from it alone

ElendilTheTall

Ugh, quark

rumtscho

at least that's what I think. One of the reasons I decided to try out the salt idea is that one of the episodes (back when they were purely hearing related) occured on a morning after I had dined on salami with a side of feta.

yes, that's what I meant: some people can give up a certain thing easily :)

I actually enjoy quark, but more in a yogurt-like way.

Say, mixed with fruit pieces and topped with whipped cream.

ElendilTheTall

6:51 PM

Yes, it's barely a cheese

Stephie

Send your salt over here - I exceed all dietary guidelines because it keeps my blood pressure high enough (with the help of coffee and black tea) that I at least don't faint in public any more.

rumtscho

@Stephie ouchies

really, if I ever get to meet you, I know what to do with the leg of serano ham sitting around here!

ElendilTheTall

Mrs the tall gets a lot of orthostatic hypotension

Cindy

Hello all!

rumtscho

hi @Cindy

Stephie

6:55 PM

@ElendilTheTall As in "I have to sit down quickly because I got up too fast" or "I'd like to get up in the morning bit my blood pressure stayed in bed"?

Cindy

@Stephie I used to have to deal with that when I was younger.

Stephie

@Cindy Does it ever go away?

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall Hubby has it, too.

Stephie

I had better and worse times and currently it's at least "fine with enough coffee".

Hi @Cindy, btw.!

Cindy

@Stephie Mine did when I got my blood pressure up, probably due to aging. These days it always runs around normal or slightly low sometimes. But back in earlier years it was just normally very low. 70/40 was a likely reading at any given time.

So mine didn't just occur when rising up, it could be at any time.

Transcript for