The DMZ

According to the language union website, the usual thing to say if you have a lastname, but no gender is "Geachte heer of mevrouw [lastname]" (Dear madam or sir [lastname]")

TildalWave

@AviD not if you're addressed by the queen tho

not the hive one :)

AviD

dammit, true there are certain titles that always pertain.

Simon

I'VE GOT AN IDEA

CALL THE PERSON!

Pretend to be someone else.

Nate Kerkhofs

4:07 PM

@Simon I don't have a phone number

Simon

BOOOOOOOO

AviD

it comes back to equality. With the queen, you are excepting that you not at an equal level of footing. With a job interview, you are explicitly at the same level.

unless the Queen is interviewing you.

Simon

No you're not at the same level.

Nate Kerkhofs

@AviD depends on the company culture

AviD

@NateKerkhofs no, it does not.

Simon

4:08 PM

If you'd be working for them, you'd be at the same level.

AviD

Sometimes companies are confused, and have it wrong.

Nate Kerkhofs

@AviD What @Simon said

AviD

@NateKerkhofs what @Simon said didnt make any sense.

Simon

HERE

Nate Kerkhofs

I'm not working for them yet, and I don't want to come across as either too familiar or too distant

AviD

4:09 PM

or were you asking, what did @Simon said?

Simon

NOW YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND YOU FOGEY

AviD

@NateKerkhofs exactly.

@Simon uhh nope

Simon

Jesus Christ go to some fogey rehab classes or something.

AviD

@Simon actually, this is me trying to give you rehab.

or, an intervention, so to speak.

It's not the 19th century any more, y'all.

TildalWave

@AviD no no no nononono if you want analogies then a better one would be that as a job seeker you're doing a business deal with them... but I don't expect that people within the same company would talk to each other as if they're making a deal, at least not all the time ... thus, not at the same level, and even if, there's different protocols

AviD

4:11 PM

@TildalWave the only difference is - you don't know them yet.

Simon

Yes and when you don't know someone, you don't go "sup boi".

AviD

@Simon true.

Then again, you shouldnt EVER do that with someone you do know, either.

unless it's ironically.

okay @NateKerkhofs, after taking everyone's input into consideration, the consensus is:

8 mins ago, by kalina

why not go for "Good <time of day> <first name>,"

like "Good morning, Raya,"

TildalWave

What if Raya is not a name but a position?

> raya

n.
Any subject of the Sultan of Turkey who is not a Mohammedan.
n.
An Indian broadthroat of the family Eurylæmidæ, Psarisomus dalhousiæ, inhabiting the Himalayas. The term is also one of the several generic designations which this species has received.

AviD

or a strange slang nickname? like "boi"?

Nate Kerkhofs

I googled the name and it appears to be predominantly a female name

so I think the best idea is just to address them as female

and if they're not a female, then they probably are used to being called a female

TildalWave

4:17 PM

Dutch language doesn't have a plural form that can be used as gender neutral way of addressing a single individual?

"eervol"?

kalina

@NateKerkhofs "Jobs motherfuckers, do you have any?"

Simon

@NateKerkhofs Yeah man, at some point you just gotta say "fuck it" and go full on #yolo.

TildalWave

translate: eervol

(from Dutch) Honorable

hmmm, might be a bit much

Nate Kerkhofs

@TildalWave no, such honorrifics are usually reserved for dignitaries, like judges or public servants

TildalWave

yeah I just realized that

Nate Kerkhofs

4:20 PM

The closest we have to that is Edelachtbare, and we only call judges that

I'm going to stick with my original instinct of referring to them as female. thenamemeaning.com/raya says it's a girl name

and if they turn out to be male, they're probably used to being referred to as female

but if I call them male, and they turn out to be female and care about it, I lose a great deal of standing.

TildalWave

how about "gerespecteerde"?

translate: gerespecteerde

(from Dutch) respected

so "gerespecteerde Raya,..."

Nate Kerkhofs

@TildalWave again, rarely used, even in the situations that call for it

yea

damn

its too formal

4:23 PM

4 mins ago, by kalina

@NateKerkhofs "Jobs motherfuckers, do you have any?"

TildalWave

hehehe

Lucas Kauffman

@TildalWave the only way you would use it is in "Edelachtbare"

which is to adress a judge

Nate Kerkhofs

@TildalWave My problem is not the honorific, my problem is that referring to them by their first name without permission is impolite

Simon

Yep, so I'd do "Ms. lastname,".

Nate Kerkhofs

so I want to refer to them with their last name, but that can't be done in Dutch without a gender

TildalWave

4:23 PM

@LucasKauffman I thought that's an edelacht berry fruit bar" :)

kalina

I start all of my emails with "hey"

Lucas Kauffman

@NateKerkhofs you can just say Dear, if you are really unsure

kalina

cba with formalities

Lucas Kauffman

"Beste,"

Nate Kerkhofs

Okay, I just sent the mail using "Geachte mevrouw [lastname]"

kalina

4:24 PM

@LucasKauffman "ensure"?

TildalWave

@NateKerkhofs I understand, but I don't see a good way around it

Nate Kerkhofs

so "Dear miss [lastname]"

TildalWave

translate: Geachte mevrouw

(from Dutch) Dear Madam

Lucas Kauffman

@kalina sorry Im emptying all my half full whisky bottles

@TildalWave didnt know you spoke dutch :P

TildalWave

@LucasKauffman me neither :)

Arperum

4:25 PM

@LucasKauffman All mods speak google translate.

Nate Kerkhofs

@TildalWave It's somewhat more neutral than Madam, but that's the gist of it

Lucas Kauffman

It really depends on corporate culture tho, I know at EY I would never send an email with lastname, always firstname

internally

kalina

when I worked for ungratefuls I never started my emails with anything

it was normally just WHAT HAS HAPPENED ZOMG?! <screenshot>

or "LOL look at this developer including the binary column storing images in the index"

"Are you really running DBCC in the middle of the day on production? REALLY? REALLY?"

oh, stressful times

I'm glad life isn't like that anymore

TildalWave

@kalina well rejecting is always so much easier, no need for any of this formal crap you just reply with "I'm afraid we're wasting each others time" if you wanna be polite or "Stop wasting my time" if you don't care for that :)

kalina

@TildalWave that's still too polite

Arperum

4:28 PM

At my previous job I had to start all mails with "Dag firstname," Didn't matter if it was addressing a client or internal.

kalina

"WASSSSSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAP????! ps I have removed <managers> login from production because he keeps doing select * from bigtable"

AviD

@LucasKauffman and this is at Big4.

literally the most corporate place you can find.

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD ey has a very flat hierarchy

AviD

@LucasKauffman oh. uh huh. Sure sure. Riiiiiight.

Remind me again, how Partners work?

TildalWave

with a mallet

kalina

4:31 PM

well basically the partners are the bosses

and everybody else are... present

Simon

are present

Nate Kerkhofs

what is ey?

kalina

yes, they're those people that the partners don't care about and turn up for less money than the partners would accept for a short game of golf

TildalWave

@NateKerkhofs Ernst & Young

Nate Kerkhofs

oh, I see. I thought it was an abbreviation for something else

ah, so it is an abbreviation

Simon

4:32 PM

That'd be an acronym, I believe.

TildalWave

nurd

Simon

fkin rekt

One could argue that an acronym is an abbreviation, though.

Colin Cassidy

@Simon you'd have to try really hard to make an acronym that was not also an abbreviation

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD depends on the partner, but in general i can just walk up and have a chat, there are no issues there mostly

Simon

HELLO COLIIIIIIIN

HOW IS IT GOING MR. CASSIDY?

Colin Cassidy

4:34 PM

HIIIIII!

Nate Kerkhofs

Acronym

An acronym is an abbreviation used as a word which is formed from the initial components in a phrase or a word. Usually these components are individual letters (as in NATO or laser) or parts of words or names (as in Benelux). There are broad currents of consensus but no universal standardization of various names for such abbreviations and of their orthographic styling. In English and most other languages, such abbreviations historically had limited use, but they became much more common in the 20th century. Acronyms are a type of word formation process, and they are viewed as a subtype of blending...

Colin Cassidy

fine, just finishing up, and figured I post something here

Nate Kerkhofs

yeah, so an acronym is literally an abbreviation

kalina

and that post rekt simon

10/10 would read again

Simon

pls, I did say that

kalina

4:35 PM

it's a bit of an assumption on your part to assume I read the nonsense you type

Simon

blablabla

kalina

have you written an arrangement yet?

Simon

What do you think I'm doing right now?

kalina

masturbating

Simon

pls

kalina

4:36 PM

sorry

tweezerbating

Nate Kerkhofs

@kalina Isn't it always an assumption to assume something? or did you mean presumption?

Simon

all

kalina

it's getting a bit hot in here

like something or somebody is about to burst into flames

Nate Kerkhofs

@kalina Because you got burned?

Simon

rekt

kalina

4:37 PM

I'm fireproof

we've established this already

many times

Simon

PULL DA TRIGGER MODAFUKA AM BULLET PROOF

AviD

@LucasKauffman I meant their existence. And Junior Partners. And Directors. And etc.

Nate Kerkhofs

@kalina so you mean you're covered in flame retardant material?

kalina

@NateKerkhofs no I have extreme levels of control over space and time

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD I play league of legends with one of my directors and the other one offered to pick me up before we went to Texas because he knew I had a goodbye party the night before :P

Nate Kerkhofs

4:38 PM

@kalina Hello Doctor

kalina

sssh

you can't do that in here, a Rory might see

Simon

a roro

kalina

I've been told that if I am any character from Doctor Who that I am a weeping angel

Nate Kerkhofs

@kalina Weren't you sad when you had to say goodbye to Amelia Pond during the Weeping Angel invasion of Manhattan?

@kalina because you stiffen up whenever someone looks at you?

AviD

@LucasKauffman that doesnt mean there is no hierarchy, it means there is no inappropriate overformal distance between you.

kalina

4:40 PM

I don't watch Doctor Who so I don' tknow

Simon

She doesn' tknow

AviD

@NateKerkhofs heeey SPOILERS

kalina

I assumed they were ridiculously badass and dangerous

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD there is hierarchy in decision making, which is normal

but there isnt hierarchy in terms of formality

Nate Kerkhofs

@kalina Weeping Angels turn into stone when someone watches them, including the camera. That's what makes them so creepy

AviD

4:40 PM

10 mins ago, by Lucas Kauffman

@AviD ey has a very flat hierarchy

@LucasKauffman thats not what that means

kalina

@NateKerkhofs well that correctly suits my introverted nature

AviD

@NateKerkhofs and then they hit you so hard you literally go back in time.

kalina

I think it's because I used to randomly appear in the Bridge, hold a conversation with nobody and then immediately leave teh second anybody became active

Simon

aw yo lil friendz from da bridge gave u a lil nickname

kalina

I have several nicknames I have collected over the years

including pixel for "small and insignificant but a massive problem if you upset her"

like dead pixels

oh right, that would have been an op sec fail

apparently the name before pixel returns google results

!

well not that massive, seems to be just a collection of game forums

#chatkiller

#monologuer

#angel

#innocent

#outspoken

#riskeverythingfearnothing

Rоry McCune

4:56 PM

@kalina apart from telling us your DJ name :op

kalina

that's not fear

that's being sensible

Rоry McCune

@kalina it's also not risk

but then I suppose risk implies reward, and the only reward to telling us would be a small blip in your twitter followers

and @Simon gawping over the fact that he has a picture with you already

kalina

"small" is being generous

Simon

wat

kalina

@Simon doesn't have a picture of me already

well, I suppose he might have

Rоry McCune

4:58 PM

@kalina we talking about @Simon again?

kalina

@Simon doesn't have a picture WITH me already

Simon

pls leave my ween alone

Rоry McCune

@kalina right steph

Simon

HEY LIGHTY HOW'S THE MISSIONARY GOING?

A LIL' BORING AT TIMES, YES?

kalina

"Guys, I've had enough, I'm <X>, here is proof <link>"

"Simon: I feel dirty"

well delete your crank bank collection

Simon

4:59 PM

I'm sure that I own 0 tracks of yours.

kalina

that's even worse

you'd steal my music and then call yourself a friend?

Simon

o pls

Rоry McCune

@kalina you've upgraded him to friend?

when did that happen?

kalina

@RоryMcCune re-read what I said

I didn't say anything about what I class him

Simon

There's literally one track that wasn't bought in my tracks and that's because it couldn't be bought.

Rоry McCune

5:00 PM

@kalina I did , I was purposely finding it ambiguous to make a point

amusingly from the few I've seen, there's an easy way to rule out most DJs from being @kalina 's IRL persona which is that the grammar on their sites is awful.

Rory Alsop

5:16 PM

@RоryMcCune I have narrowed my list down to 31 possibles. But I have no obvious way to narrow the list further, other than to visit each one and whisper "*** pixel" into their ears. I foresee that being high effort and likely to get me slapped

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop website grammar check I'd wager would rule some out :)

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune that ruled a few - also ones I knew had gigs on when @kalina was active in here

I have almost resigned myself to the fact at some point she may well tell me, and I'll find out she was one of the ones we ruled out ages ago :-)

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop you mean Taylor Swift ...right

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune Taylor is on my list of likely to meet, but not likely to be kalina

AviD

@RoryAlsop what is "*** pixel" ?

Rory Alsop

5:28 PM

@AviD a username @kalina had

AviD

@RoryAlsop oh never seen that

why wouldnt you just whisper "kalina" in their ears?

or "flyk" ?

or "PONIIIIEEEEEESSS!!"

though that last one would likely be misheard, and definitely get you slapped.

Simon

weenies?

AviD

see, this is why I dont go to dance bars, I dont think these things through, then I go and whisper inappropriate things in the DJ's ear and get myself slapped.

@Simon c'mon man.

Simon

I just liked that exact comic on FB 10 minutes ago.

Stalker.

AviD

it just came up in my feed literally moments ago.

made me think of you.

Simon

5:33 PM

ghey

AviD

like, that guy IS you.

you ARE that guy.

Simon

It looks like you haven't seen the tweet I've sent you this morning yet.

AviD

@Simon pls

and it was this afternoon.

hopeless.

kalina

@RoryAlsop hmmm

Rory Alsop

@kalina I'll wait and see if you say hi IRL at some point. Don't worry, I'm really not the stalker type

Although I was quite impressed at the mobilised power of this chat room to try and locate and help that poor individual last week

kalina

5:44 PM

you're not?

Simon

u r not?

Rory Alsop

@kalina nah - too much effort, and doesn't lead to an outcome I like

anyway - I'm obvious. So if folks want to say hi, I'm not difficult to find

Arperum

@RoryAlsop I can't remember that. Was I involved?

Rory Alsop

@Arperum not sure - I wasn't useful, but was a spectator

Rоry McCune

weirdly google image search was very useful in that

led to the connection from the first alias to the second

which was what led to skype

Arperum

5:52 PM

What was going on? Who had some problems?

Rоry McCune

@Arperum @Ohnana had seen a person on reddit who had taken an overdose and was keen to help them out, so asked if we could help find some IRL details based on their reddit profile

Arperum

@RоryMcCune Oh right, I vaguely remember seeing some aftermath of that.

Or maybe the start. Or some random point of it anyway.

Rоry McCune

6:08 PM

Simon

You have to be one hell of a ween to be scared to ask a girl out.

Arperum

@Simon You have no idea how hard it is for some people, being introverted and being bullied does not help.

TildalWave

I also don't recall my default browser ever paying for a night out, so it's a bit unfair to compare it like that

Simon

tildol

pls

TildalWave

frankly, in my student years, I didn't hesitate to ask a girl out because I didn't dare to, but out of pity for my dried out wallet

Simon

6:24 PM

I didn't ask girls out when I was a teenager because most teen gurlz are idiots.

As are teen dudes, before ovid complains.

Mark Hulkalo

6:53 PM

Speaking of Ovid

I just drove past that town a while back and laughed. Thanks a lot, Simon

Simon

My pleasure, sir.

Simon

8:13 PM

@RoryAlsop You might wanna check this Villican guy out again.

Now that he has auto-edit powers, it's even worse than before.

e.g. security.stackexchange.com/posts/106564/revisions

AviD

@RоryMcCune ooh completely missd that

Simon

You were probably too busy putting your kids on a timeout.

AviD

@Simon hey I have a couple of teen girls. I know what youre talkng about.

Simon

o

AviD

Bears per 1000 square km in Finland, visualized as bears. #dataviz http://makijarvi.tumblr.com/ https://t.co/Ff6ZlZA9EI

Tweeted by randal_olson on November 25, 2015 at 2:34 PM

/cc @adi

Simon

8:18 PM

... That's the only person you cc this to?

You can't think of anyone who's obsessed with bears in here?

AviD

that live in finlnd? .... no.

Simon

pls

AviD

okay, cc @ThomasPornin too, on casevyou decide to visit finland.

Simon

casevyou

What keyboard layout are you using to hit "v" after typing "case"?

Thomas Pornin

@AviD I have already met a Finnish polar bear. I ate it.

Simon

8:23 PM

wat

Thomas Pornin

In a soup.

AviD

@Simon typin a tablet. notvseeing what im typing, and hitting v instead ofvspace.

Simon

You like bears yet you don't mind to eat bear?

@AviD looool

Thomas Pornin

@Simon Bears eat bears.

Simon

@ThomasPornin pls

Thomas Pornin

8:24 PM

Usually smaller and/or deader bears.

That's Nature for you.

Simon

Mother Nature is evil.

AviD

not to mention the rowdy two year old bouncing on my other arm...

Simon

You're the one who thought it was a good idea to reproduce 134 times.

AviD

heh.

Simon

Seriously how many kids do you have?

At least 5?

Rоry McCune

8:38 PM

@Simon x, where x is the number more than is sensible to have

Simon

So, that's at least one.

Rоry McCune

@Simon well he mentioned "A couple of teen girls" earlier so I'm guessing it's 2+

Godzilla Dance - 10 hours

@Simon "at least"

9:00 PM

9:13 PM

@RоryMcCune why are they wishing us a happy Thanksgiving?

ManishEarth

10:07 PM

Wait there are Doctor Who fans here? \o/

AviD

@ManishEarth Spoilers!

ManishEarth

:D

Rory Alsop

10:39 PM

@Manish - it's an entrance requirement for this room

kalina

11:07 PM

I don't like it

Rory Alsop

Shhh

kalina

I haven't watched many of them though, perhaps I missed all of the good ones

TildalWave

11:48 PM

Except that one guy. He's not doing a good job. You know who you are. GET WITH THE PROGRAM, MAN — Jeff Atwood ♦ 13 hours ago

I don't get it. Is that some Fallout ref?

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