« first day (1624 days earlier)   

LvB
12:00 AM
what? why you say that?
 
You're Lari/Lawri right? (honestly unsure how to spell it)
 
LvB
Lawri van Buel yes
 
I've seen a lot of very short answers from you recently, in fact a lot of them got flagged
 
LvB
I am learning to comment more than awnser yes ;)
 
:-)
 
LvB
12:02 AM
But I've always been short writer, I prefer to stay short and to the point.
 
I'm the opposite. When I write, I write essays.
I don't know what "concise" means :)
 
I think it's important to justify/explain
some technical questions unavoidably end up looking like shopping lists
 
LvB
its why I love @SteveDL, He fixes my awnsers ;)
 
but if it's a person who doesn't understand some thing it's better to hammer it
hehe sorry about that ;P
 
12:04 AM
> expressing or covering much in few words; brief in form but comprehensive in scope; succinct; terse:
a concise explanation of the company's retirement plan.
 
@Rhino it's a synonym for donut
 
is this a thing now?
do we need LMDTFY?
(D == Define)
 
(D == Donut too.)
 
@Simon come on I need a hand here
 
Please don't tell Simon
 
(D == Dictionary)
 
Let me donut that for you....
 
(D == @Simon's D)
 
12:06 AM
goes back to work
 
@SteveDL Why would you do that, we're just the coolest??
 
@LvB if you're answering have a look at dshield.org/forums/diary/… too
Because im so tired
and almost done for today
also because I have a meeting in 10 hours
 
LvB
<-- Checking link
 
the question and first answer make some good points
 
LvB
I Wish we had something like DANE to make Certificates more bound to a domain....
 
12:13 AM
I wish I can spend the rest of my academic life carefully avoiding the topic of trust :D
DANE sounds nicer yes
 
LvB
I suspect your wife / girlfriend will not agree with that ;)
 
There are projects to redesign completely the structure of the Internet to simplfy routing and avoid some spoofing attacks
Adrian Perrig among others
some Finnish people too, and some French at Inria Strasbourg, afair
 
LvB
DANE and DNSSec could make CA's obsoleet
 
Finns = HIIT probably
yeah but are they good enough?
 
@SteveDL Were we talking yesterday about Algebra yes?
 
12:16 AM
you were, maybe
 
Redesigning the internet implies a lot of change....
 
Yeah.
Big challenges.
 
LvB
Routing is hard to do right
 
That's also dependent on the structure of your network
 
LvB
I've seen a number of scheme's now and all were just as bad as the current ones. just not bad at the same places.
 
12:17 AM
routing in some P2P topologies is easy, though I'm not sure what they'd look like at the scale of 1 internet
 
LvB
the chaotic small world inter network we call internet is basicly a pain in the ...
 
@SteveDL Ok I'm gonna go for it... how do they propose to do this? In 100 words (English or French) or less :)
 
Too tired to dig networking papers :-) Sorry
but some topologies self-maintain when clients join/exit, and the fact that they have a structure makes routing much easier
some other types of distributed networks like publish-subscribe networks can auto-balance load
well surely routing protocols do similar things
there was something very unique about Perrig's proposal
but I forgot what it even was
he had a network which I believe made it much easier to route packets, and also to circumvent nationwide censorship by creating bridges across managed groups of domain names
@Rhino what do you work on btw? and you too @LvB
((also I should mention at this point that donuts are a very well studied topology ;p))
 
LvB
Acording to my Business card I'm a "Software Quality Assurance"
 
@SteveDL yes but have you considered maple syrup bridges? Lets you route around Gen. Alexander taking a bite :)
@SteveDL I'm a Rhino, so, I generally wander around Africa, rolling in mud and things.
 
12:23 AM
@Rhino you're a Canadian rhino. Icy mud?
@LvB code reviews, code analysis?
 
@SteveDL I am not a Canadian Rhino! I am a British Rhino, lost in Switzerland.
 
LvB
yes and Code writing, some times I got some time for pen testing.
 
The edges of the lakes are sort of muddy in places
 
LvB
@Rhino thats not mud....
 
Ok serious time - well you can always StalkIn me, but, I was a software engineer.
 
12:25 AM
@Rhino oh crap yes you told me about this!
Right I have you on StalkIn
opens the StalkIn
 
gets bombared by advice about dealing with millenials
closes stalkedin in disgust
Yes I am jobhunting. I wrote drivers that did endpoint monitoring.
 
lol
Your current job achievements are quite nice for 1 year on the job
 
Also some backup software. And a brief stint with ATMs.
 
that, or I need to get out of academia and realise what the word productivity means :p
 
@SteveDL It's easy to make work sound like you did a lot. 99.99% of everything written on CVs is embellished.
I spent plenty of time writing build scripts and left eventually because the environment wasn't great.
 
12:29 AM
oh so you left already
 
not formally, but actually, they didn't want me near their driver code
 
LvB
Well a rhino near a driver.... I see a point running in :p
 
Haha yes it's a tad risky...
but yes. I mean, I'm a professional so I wouldn't do anything, but I see their point.
 
LvB
The problem when others can not understand your code ...
 
but yeah. The situation wasn't working out.
 
12:33 AM
@Rhino plenty of work elsewhere :-) Are you looking only in UK and CH or also in FR?
 
@SteveDL I'd consider FR. Ideally I didn't want to move from my apartment, but in reality I might have to .
Although, since I have no degree FR might be difficult. I'm told having a degree in France is pretty much mandatory.
 
AH
 
Yeah exactly
 
Not in small companies, or not if you can access people beforehand and show projects
 
LvB
What sort of work your looking for @Rhino?
 
12:36 AM
You don't get past the HR filters of big corp without showing you're a member of the engineer cast though
but get to talk to a head of dept/group and show them you got skills, and you'll land interviews
 
@LvB That's a very good question. I have options - one being to simply do my OU degree for a full year and therefore be close to having the magic bit of paper.
Although tbh I'm not sure what a degree in maths will do to helping with programming skills.
 
@Rhino consider sstic.org/2015/news, it's only industrials
i'm not amazed by the quality of most presentations (because i'm picky/bitchy) but there are job opportunities there, and it's soon
+ Rennes is awesome
 
@SteveDL Unfortunately I have an exam in Zurich on the 2nd.
 
LvB
I know of some ppl in need of mathematician in Eindhoven
not sure if the position is not filed yet though
 
@LvB I assume they want a qualified one though, right? :P I'd happily apply, but usually when people say they want a mathematician they mean postdoc.
 
12:39 AM
true that.
 
LvB
no someone that can add the insides of a mathematician to a webapp development
 
well there are applications in ML and NLP among others
and modelling
we have mathematicians in my group, but usually with the BSc yes
 
@SteveDL Exactly. I'm in no dire straits, so I have time to work out what I do next.
I've got an opportunity I'm looking into at epfl
We'll see
 
LvB
cool
 
In CompSec?
they're freaking excellent people
 
12:42 AM
@SteveDL Software engineering for a compsec team, basically
 
would be great to do engineer work there!
which one which one
:D
 
@SteveDL I'll tell you when I know the outcome :P
 
Fair enough
 
Tbh, I'll be surprised if I get it. What usually happens is "oh right great you know about..." and then they realize I don't have a degree and boom, jobs down
 
who still asks for a degree, when there is actual experience on the table?
 
12:44 AM
@Rhino applied already?
 
@AviD Well a large German company recently turned me down for a post on this basis, having contacted me via SO careers to ask if I wanted to do it...!
 
LvB
ppl that value external validation.
 
I don't look at degree/school names too much myself if hiring interns/students. I have no issues with taking a non-UCL student from some unknown place. I like to see evidence of competence and solid thinking skills in a cover letter, and no fluff or "pls i need to eat donuts"
 
@SteveDL Of course. As soon as I saw the job I was like wow... ok all jobs suck sometimes but that'd be a cool one even when it sucked.
 
They usually want MSc Comp Sec for research engineer though; so yeah the competition will be tough
you need to provide proof of skills in the cover letter
 
12:46 AM
this is usually the point where I say "so, you're better off not working for clueless people like that, anyway", but @Adi has made painstaking efforts to clarify to me that I speak from a position of privilege, and not everyone has alternate opportunities.
 
@LvB the truth is more about managing high volumes of applications
 
I still say it, but realize that often people need to take the crappy place regardless.
 
sometimes knowing a person has been through the ordeal of a degree in a ruthless school means you're less likely to waste your time reading their CV
 
@SteveDL exactly. What do you do? Turn over half and reject them just because you've got too many.
 
@SteveDL if someone actually puts in "pls i need to eat donuts" in their cover letter, I think you should hire them on the spot.
 
12:48 AM
Then throw away the ones without degrees
THEN, and only then, read the 50 or so you narrowed down.
 
@AviD erm :D
 
@SteveDL well, yeah, except for @Simon, obviously.
@Rhino that's stupid.
 
@AviD ironically I maintain a PHP codebase
 
LOL
so ironic
 
@AviD That's also the hiring process in some places
Or, more or less the hiring process.
 
12:49 AM
@SteveDL so that guy with pls donuts cover letter would be perfect.
3 mins ago, by AviD
this is usually the point where I say "so, you're better off not working for clueless people like that, anyway", but @Adi has made painstaking efforts to clarify to me that I speak from a position of privilege, and not everyone has alternate opportunities.
 
Especially if hes Canadian, right?
 
It's not my fault. We had that intern build a website for some colleagues, then I needed to build sites for my own remote studies, and I used the same technology so I could merge the student's nice bits into my site later one
 
I am a Canadian called @Simon and I can haz donut svp pls @SteveDL ? I would like to specialize in eating donuts in your department/group. I believe I bring maple syrup to the table, and what the hell, yolo, right?
 
LvB
well im going to bed...ltr all
 
@Rhino any of your work that you can release as standalone software?
ttyl LvB
 
12:51 AM
@Rhino needs moar maple syrup and jumpstyle. Yolo.
 
@Rhino would not hire, not sweary enough. Lacks confidence in donut eating throughput evidently
Also my code appears to be working
So i'm off too
 
@SteveDL Not really. One of the downsides of doing an OU degree is that I work what the Swiss call 100% at work, and then 50% at home. So my work week is 42 hrs + whatever I need to do to pass my degree.
 
@SteveDL reminds me of that dilbert where PHB is trying to evaluate Wally's goals, which he defined himself.
 
Sadly I can relate to that being in pluridisciplinary research. It's good that places like OU exist though
 
> "Well fine then! okay, how may cups of coffee DID you drink??"
 
12:54 AM
@AviD nice :D
 
@SteveDL Amazing. My reasons for not doing a degree the traditional route are basically that I was ill enough to have to withdraw, and the OU provided me a way to keep studying.
 
Is the degree as costly as elsewhere?
 
@SteveDL Not even close, especially if you started before they hiked the prices :)
 
@SteveDL I dont remember the punchline, but Wally had the foresight to even cap that, so it was more of aiming for a consistent average.
 
Also, when you consider I work full time too (usually)
The tricky thing is balancing the two
 
12:57 AM
@AviD still I wish I could tell my boss that instead of admitting to being 2 weeks late on schedule because I failed to hack some code into glibc :P
 
Actually, every employer I have been to has at one point or other expressed a negative view of my OU studies.
 
of course
if you work out of hours you lose overall productivity
 
Yeah but it's not a second job, it's effectively employee development
Most of my employers have also expressed "we should have hired a graduate" or some variant thereof too
 
What I meant was that it mobilises your concentration, makes you more tired
 
which do you want? Pick one
 
12:58 AM
What's the point if a math graduate?
you having done the last course on complex numbers or z arithmetic or whatever weird things mathematicians do wont make you better at using Git
 
many employers have so many cognitive biases and counterlogic positions.
so sick of those.
 
@SteveDL I know, but no graduate, no job. Even with my experience.
If I was 40, it would be a different story, but I'm not.
Plus, I like maths - the degree is for me.
 
it might be good to take some time to wrap it up then :-)
maybe some security certs would help too if you want to pursue there?
(well I hire programmers so I wouldnt rely on certs personally, I'd rely on your Github, but I'm special)
 
@SteveDL It is a strong possibility I do that. I'm in the position to do it (which is very lucky) and to focus on it and stop balancing the two.
 
right
let me know about your application
 
1:04 AM
I tell you what though, if you see "OU graduate" on a CV and they worked FT while doing it, please take a moment to appreciate their time management skills :)
 
im dead, and im walking home now
still in the office
hahaha
 
There's time in the day I didn't know was there!
Also how do you create a github profile as a working software engineer? Oh yeah, extracurricular activity. Saps your concentration :) At my previous employer contributing to opensource was frowned upon.
This is assuming they knew about it.
 
Fair enough
I meant for you to publish the software youre writing now
if allowed to
 
Which, as @AviD says, is kinda stupid :)
 
Thats what I do
 
1:06 AM
I'm not writing anything right now (exam) but yeah
building a github profile is my next step
I have code around that can be cobbled together into small stuff
anyway go to sleep, I'll let you know about the application :)
 
night!
 
As for the security side of things, tbh, I'm not sure anymore.
 
1:47 AM
@SteveDL I'm not giving a hand to your D.
@Rhino You've just described my entire life in 3 sentences.
 
@Simon You're welcome.
 
Here lads, have some decent Techno in your life:
 
 
2 hours later…
3:29 AM
Hey guys...i just saw this question security.stackexchange.com/questions/90259/… ... and i was wondering...if i ask a question about where i could get some certificates on pen testing field online and that are recognized...would be a good question or no?
 

« first day (1624 days earlier)