The Comms Room - 2011-11-22 (page 2 of 5)

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4:00 PM

Anyone know of a visio like program that will let me diagram a 66-block?

@PeterGrace Might well be... the rest looks good to my undiscerning eye.

@PeterGrace You're close! You spotted the fix but not the why ;)

@MikeyB my assumption is the ifup script exits when the error comes from pre-up.

@MikeyB should I amend my post for that?

Speaking of - that should probably be on U&L I think.

@MikeyB damn it, you win :)

@MikeyB I'm going to give you the props.

4:06 PM

"What am I doing wrong?"
"You're not reading the error message that is printed out by `ifup eth8`."

its ok, I got 4 upvotes, maybe I'll crest 1k rep before new years.

6 now.

"/120 is all I've got from the ISP" - That's not allowed according to IANA...

@ChrisS Where does IANA say that it's not allowed?

Nothing technically wrong with it, and I have no issues with ISPs handing out smaller allocations (so long as the ISP can keep it all straight).

4:11 PM

@ChrisS It's always been my understanding that although it's considered specification to have a minimum unit of /64, it's possible and usable to use much smaller swatches of address space.

Woohoo! Whoever upboated my exchange migration answer, thanks, I just got "Nice Answer" badge.

It's both possible and works quite well, I run my home network on a /112; ISPs aren't allowed to issue blocks smaller than /64 (finding the reference......)

wahoo, 607 repeen and growing. I'll be Ron Jeremy of reputation by day's end!

@PeterGrace Part of the problem is that there will be devices that (incorrectly) puke and die when they see a subnet smaller than a /64.

Bart Silverstrim

@Chopper3: my wife recently had a concussion. First time i had to research them.

@MikeyB that's urban legend at this point though.

@MikeyB nobody can cite specific examples of this problem occuring. I say this only because I also was espousing this position (< /64 baad) until I read a very insightful blog post on the subject that mentioned the concern has been around since the beginning but nobody can ever say it happened.

4:16 PM

@PeterGrace That's good to know.

Huh, interesting: "And yep, /120 is all I've got from the ISP :( – SztupY 6 mins ago"

@PeterGrace Microsoft's DHCP Server will puke if you try to create a subnet smaller than /64

@ChrisS /64 does violate autoconfiguration specifications, I think.

Bart Silverstrim

Just read that blog post...so...this new law...is basically saying if you're in IT, you don't get overtime (for most big companies)?

@BartSilverstrim that's unfortunate

Bart Silverstrim

That's what this new law will do.

But I didn't get overtime.

4:20 PM

@ChrisS Does that mean I could get a /64 and act as an ISP? Even with just that I could give out 72057594037927936 /120s (rough calculation)

I am high on life today

Bart Silverstrim

Salaried and below market pay for me for the win!

and testosterone

@BartSilverstrim I think it's just for gov't employees

I might be wrong

Bart Silverstrim

No, not just gov.

4:21 PM

I don't get overtime anyway, so I don't care a whole lot.

@SmallClanger There's no reason you can't act as an ISP, but it comes with legal requirements and your ISP might not be too happy about it.

I'd be more concerned about SOPA breaking the whole fucking Internet.

3

Bart Silverstrim

The blog entry says that the sponsors of the bill are paid for by Bank of America, etc...other big companies with big IT bills.

I don't think SOPA has much of a chance of passing... Supporters are dropping like flies, and without supporters there aren't lobbyists, no lobbyists = no bribed congressmen => no new law.

Bart Silverstrim

Anyone working in IT making more than like $27/hr would be considered a professional and exempt from overtime pay.

4:23 PM

what????

@BartSilverstrim Unless your employer doesn't suck and still pays you overtime, that is.

People always have choice. If big companies choose to fuck you, you can always tell them to suck it and unplug some fiber on your way out the door.

3

Bart Silverstrim

I don't know how simple it is to get another job somewhere.

Starting in the 60's/70's, the US shifted to the home ownership culture.

It was promoted by business in part because if you're indebted, you needed your job more, and you were less likely to protest.

As you might remember the 60's/70's had a bit of a problem with that.

I don't see too many IT people making that much who are hourly in the first place...

Bart Silverstrim

@ChrisS: then you follow the money to find out who does...

And Simmons already posted that.

You can see who sponsored the bill and who lobbies those people.

It includes right down to tech trainers.

Team leaders.

blah blah.

I'm personally not in a place where I can give the finger to my employer and walk out if I'm unhappy. Some people are, though, I suppose.

Now we have not only a home ownership culture but a credit culture, where people are rather reliant on debt. Oh, and we had a shift about 40 or 50 years ago towards being college educated...now tuition has skyrocketed, new graduates graduate with the equivalent of a mortgage right out of the gate.

I could if I wanted to... Financially I'd be fine for at least a year on our savings account. Breaking into investments would extend that for another year or two. Unemployment would further extend that almost another year.

Bart Silverstrim

4:29 PM

So for your average middle-class person, you have a mortgage, school bills, and credit card bills which nationwide averaged $10,000 alone.

@BartSilverstrim Don't remind me about tuition bill >.>

@BartSilverstrim Not immediately, but you can certainly start job hunting.

@ChrisS for some jobs I'm paid by the day, guess that counts

Bart Silverstrim

My stepdaughter is racking up about...I think 12K a semester?

Average person in the US has a $10K credit card bill...

Another ... oh, $150K for a mortgage?

@Chopper3 Contract employment doesn't count as normal employment in the US.

4:30 PM

I don't expect the backlash the day the bill is signed, but within 2 years I fully expect the talented people that are getting fucked to find refuge elsewhere leaving those companies with either subpar IT people or salaried employees

@BartSilverstrim 10K credit card bill? Really? That's fucking crazy

@BartSilverstrim fuck credit, until I get a house, I don't plan on using credit unless I got the cash...

Bart Silverstrim

@MarkM: it's not uncommon.

In the US it's openly encouraged.

I put everything I spend on my Amex for the reward points, so the bill can hit 2-3k/mo but man, carrying that much actual debt is nuts

Bart Silverstrim

Sometimes things happen. Emergencies. Job loss. Cuts.

I guess I'm lucky that I was brought up not to spend money that you don't have.

Yeah, thats true

Bart Silverstrim

4:32 PM

Sometimes you live for awhile on a credit card.

@BartSilverstrim Not exactly the same, but XKCD has a nice graph about money up right now. Some of it is relevant to your point:

user image

Shit does happen, but for the US average to be 10k, that means that theres 1 person with 20k for every person like me with 0.

Bart Silverstrim

There are people who abuse the point, and they're held up as the example of why everyone in debt is a retard who "deserves" it. The reality is that your neighbor with nice toys may be living on paper.

And there are simply circumstances that get out of control. shrug Point is that if you're in debt, you can't just walk out when you're pissed because you rely on that check to have dinner for your kids.

And it's been carefully achieved, this situation, through decades of manipulation of the economy.

Part of it is that the previous generations saved their money for emergencies. We're programmed to spend what we get and only save for our goals.

Bart Silverstrim

Look right now at college. it's a bubble.

But we're told you go to college if you don't want to end up at McD's.

Well. some of those McD's workers ARE college grads :-)

4:34 PM

Education is a sham, for the most part

I took an economics class a while ago where I read some statistic that said that the current generation saves something like 70% less than previous generations, with value adjustments for inflation

Bart Silverstrim

If you're a manager there for a number of stores, you can make nearly six figures though. Smellin' like french fries, but you have a good check.

Yeah, most don't have awareness of how we're screwed.

@Holocryptic I have to disagree, whether or not you succeed in what you went to college for, the point of college, I think, is to teach yourself to learn complex concepts on your own.

@Shads0 Wrong. The point of college is to see how much you can regurgitate.

Bart Silverstrim

you have people that are quick to say "IT'S YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT HA HA!" but they neglect seeing other factors. Like I had a 3% raise at a time when inflation was near 5%.

4:36 PM

@Holocryptic I strongly disagree; but I think two large parts of the problem are 1. People don't know what they want to do when they pick a degree 2. Many college programs fail to explain that you're in college to learn "why", not "how" (many employers also lack this understanding)

For example, I have a degree in software engineering and networking, but I'm doing IT, but I'm comfortable because I can teach myself all these foreign concepts

Bart Silverstrim

Buying power for today's middle class is lower than it was 20 years ago or so.

@Shads0 I'm in the middle of that debate. I dropped out of school. Worked my way into a sysadmin position over 6 years and now am finishing school for free since I work at a university. I took the realllllly long road there and I'm lucky to have even been able to interview here without a degree.

Bart Silverstrim

College programs can further your understanding and give you a ticket for careers that require the degree to get an interview.

@Holocryptic If I just flat out regurgitated what my profs taught me, they'd kill me (some literally as I swear my TCP/IP prof was a Russian spy at one point)

4:37 PM

Now, after nearly 4 years of working and taking classes, I'll have my BS at the end of the summer

Bart Silverstrim

You can make more than enough money if you get into a trade school or start a successful business.

I did it strictly so that my resume would be accepted at other places, though.

@MarkM Congrats

@BartSilverstrim The middle class makes ~$20/h right now. That's the exact same as in 1965. Not adjusted for inflation.

Bart Silverstrim

I'm seeing people working around here for the gas companies fracking the shale making $25/hour or more.

4:38 PM

@BartSilverstrim I have a friend that makes $25/hr driving around reading meters

Bart Silverstrim

That's more than I'm making in some cases...and they can get overtime.

If you get in with a utility, you're set.

Some american company tried fracking in the UK in one small area - caused a small earthquake - great idea

It's not a phenomenal amount of money, but it's a cushy job for someone without a degree

Bart Silverstrim

I've not heard of fracking causing earthquakes.

Without a degree?

4:39 PM

@BartSilverstrim You're not fracking hard enough

Bart Silverstrim

Making 25/hour? Unless you're in the city that's pretty good now with a degree.

Because my wife has a degree for her job, she gets taxed at a higher rate by our town.

@BartSilverstrim The Eastern US is pretty solid overall. It's hard for humans to screw that up. Other parts of the world, not so much.

@BartSilverstrim That's what I'm saying. If you can get in with a public utility or something similar, you make decent money. It's just that a lot of those jobs are manual labor. My buddy lucked out and drives around reading meters all day.

@ChrisS It's a clearer distinction in Canada I feel - College covers why "how" and University covers the "Why".

Bart Silverstrim

So if we keep fracking Britain, we'll not have to watch more royal wedding stuff?

4:40 PM

@BartSilverstrim But, but Pippa!

@MikeyB What's the difference between College and University in Canada?

Bart Silverstrim

Nothing wrong with the manual labor. The US (again from the 60's/70's onwards) gained a cultural bias that if you're manual labor, you're stupid and the jobs were to be derided.

@MikeyB Draw the line where ever you like; I don't mind. Our problem is that they aren't drawing the line... or it's a muddied mess of a line...

The problem with Manual Labor is that anyone can do it... It should be paid relatively little.

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@BartSilverstrim Definitely nothing wrong with it at all. I did manual labor most of my (short) life. But, it's not something that's sustainable as you get older and then those people are up the creek.

4:42 PM

@BartSilverstrim In the case of my step-father (who drives a trash truck for an independent company) that's true...the man barely knows how to read...

Bart Silverstrim

That's why I'm agog at people who mock the general OWS movement. It's a sign that people are starting to find an uneasy feeling with the way the economy has been shaped. They may not know why, or how, but they know something's in their diaper and want someone to change it.

user image

@MarkM You can only get a degree at a University (may be some exceptions)

@MarkM Good summary: youthink.ca/yt/careers-ed/edtraining/…

Bart Silverstrim

A lot of it involves just the way our culture has glorified debt, now much of our population is in debt, and the bubble is another one about to go poof and the people who are near the top don't worry about it except that they might see a time coming when people can't afford to pay for goods and services and then it might affect the ones closer to the top.

Education is quickly rising to the top because it is so damn expensive and the payout is very little now for many kids.

@BartSilverstrim Agreed; I really wish the OWS people could articulate the problem better. Mass Media seems to be content to mock them because they can't really say what the problem is or how to fix it.

Bart Silverstrim

4:45 PM

The simple reason OWS is so unorganized is because they embody the 99%, meaning most people are ignorant and stupid and selfish. So of course they're not organized right now. The average american still believes "in god we trust" has always been on our currency and that Rush Limbaugh has half a brain.

But like a baby, they know that something is wrong.

It doesn't take a fucking genius to see that the odds are stacked against the average person here.

@MikeyB Here universities are made up of colleges. We have a College of Arts and Sciences, a College of Nursing, a College of Business, and a College of Continuing and Professional Studies. Post-secondary schools that only offer a small range of courses in one field like Arts and Sciences only, or Business only are generally called Colleges as well, though. It's an ambiguous distinction and a lot of people use them interchangeably here.

Bart Silverstrim

So they lash out and whine and cry until someone can just "fix it."

People in a more comfortable position or carrying a more fundamentalist mindset just dismiss them as people being entitled or were stupid enough to get themselves into trouble...I think that dismisses things too quickly.

@MarkM We call those Faculties. e.g. "I got a Bachelor's degree from the Faculty of Mathematics with Honours in Computer Science."

Bart Silverstrim

If they're in a more comfortable position, then that's great...they won't be immediately affected.

But when you're a person making a decent wage directly or indirectly from your community, what happens when your average moron citizen who "deserves their debt" can't afford anything anymore?

@MikeyB Ah. Here, a faculty is a group of professors in a department. It refers to the specific people in a department. A like group of departments are then lumped into the "Colleges" that I described before.

Bart Silverstrim

4:48 PM

... well you have taxes in arrears, you have fewer purchases, suddenly even people in better positions of income see their incomes affected eventually.

Never seen @BartSilverstrim so serious o.x

Bart Silverstrim

As your community's health degrades, eventually everyone's affected, unless you're not just rich but wealthy (there's a difference, after all.)

Wealthy people can live off their investments. So they can outlast longer.

@MarkM We divide larger colleges and universities into smaller colleges for accreditation and association purposes. The requirements for say a business college are fairly high, much higher than we'd want to hold the Arts & Crafts people to.

Bart Silverstrim

This is probably going to be the first generation to really see a shift of the economy from shitter to the septic tank. I really think in my lifetime we're going to see a shift where wealth no longer moves from parent->child at the time of death because parents won't have anything to pass on.

0

A: Input traffic shaping

What you are referring to is TCP Explicit Congestion Notification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explicit_Congestion_Notification.) I don't think what you're looking for is technically possible, since by the time the packet has been received by the Linux server itself, you've already received the...

Is this a good answer?

I seem to be hit or miss with my answers, sometimes I respond to something and it's awesome, other times I get downvoted into oblivion.

4:52 PM

money for nothing? Chicks, for free!

Bart Silverstrim

There are so many signs that show things aren't going to go well. Just heard there's a study saying people are holding on to cars longer now than before (average 9.25 years, I think?) up from 8.something years in 2005. Buying power for middle americans is lower. college debt is out of control and we no longer have the loans going to the student. We have "parent plus" loans taken directly on the parent, shifting the burden because they found students were graduating and couldn't get a job.

@PeterGrace Yep. You can't control incoming traffic... As you said, it's already here or you wouldn't be concerned with it.

Bart Silverstrim

Oh, and unemployment and underemployment is higher now than during the depression, as I understand it.

@BartSilverstrim, see also decline of union strength, started by Ronald Reagan in 1981

Bart Silverstrim

Basically we don't see breadlines now because we have our social programs from the government now.

Yes, unions have helped and hindered. most of them are political farces with their own agenda's now.

4:53 PM

@BartSilverstrim Sure that couldn't be because of several factors like car quality improving as well as handing down to children?

They absolutely helped the "middle class" become what it is today

@chopper3: Seen my little adventure today?

@BartSilverstrim Unemployment is lower. Underemployment is higher according to many (I agree).

Bart Silverstrim

@Shads0: I've asked that. It seems that more people are holding on to cars to run them into the ground because they can't afford newer ones.

@pauska No, sorry, been busy

4:54 PM

28

Q: Construction workers filled my SAN with concrete and mineral dust

EDIT2: EMC has dropped our warranty and support, so this is going to be an insurance case. Don't know how HP/Dell/Cisco will respond yet. Here's the story.. The owners of the building we lease office space from decided to do a renovation of the exterior. This involved in some pretty heavy work ...

server-room disaster

@Aaron They helped 100 years ago... Not anyone who's around now...

shit

4

Bart Silverstrim

Cars are kind of a fashion thing in the US. People like getting new ones like changing underwear. They rarely buy a new one because the engine mounts failed.

I dunno about 100 years ago

My last 2 cars have only been gotten rid of because they got totaled

@BartSilverstrim I call those people idiots and/or douchenozzles

Bart Silverstrim

4:55 PM

Now it's starting to change towards holding on to vehicles to get more out of them.

Fashion is funny that way.

@Chopper3 I just got back from the server room, opened up one of the g6's and I couldnt find any trace of dust, except some in the fan housings.. but thats normal

@BartSilverstrim Every single car I've owned I've driven until it died (which is quite the feat as I can fix 95% of car problems)

My first car was a '95 pontiac grand am, just died on me last year ($2k repair for a $200 car) so I just got a '10 hyundai accent (would've loved a new pontiac, damn you GM!) that I plan on keeping for at least 10 years if I can control it, I have more important things to spend my money on, like gaming computers and hookers

Bart Silverstrim

So with so many signs of problems, I find people who outrightly dismiss OWS people as just stupid or lazy or entitlement babies to be grossly oversimplifying or simple self-interested. It's a complicated issue, and there are a lot of actual problems here.

@BartDeVos Sorry if I sniped that answer off of you, I see you edited that guy's VPS question as I was answering it.

4:57 PM

@Shads0 My second car was a 95 GAM. My current car is a '00 GAM, next will probably be a G8. I never buy new, costs too much.

Bart Silverstrim

I was driving a 96 cavalier until it got totaled.

@BartSilverstrim I think the original have a point, I view the ones that seemed to have jumped on the bandwagon which makes me cry Y U NO GET JOB

@BartSilverstrim Coupe or Sedan?

Bart Silverstrim

coupe.

Nice, I liked the J-Body Coupes.

Bart Silverstrim

4:58 PM

@Shads0: oh yeah, there are definitely morons out there protesting too.

Didn't have the 2.2L though did it? The 2.3L was so much nicer an engine.

Bart Silverstrim

That's the problem with having so many people with a general problem :-)

@ChrisS I had 2 days to get a car as school was starting up (40min commute, no busses, etc) so new was the only way to go. I was surprised that they approve me (just turned 21, no prior credit) for the cost, and I've been 2 months ahead of my payments ever since.

Bart Silverstrim

@ChrisS: I don't recall. It was totaled about a year ago. Nice little red thing. Crunchy crunchy.

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