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12:17 AM
@slhck whoa
 
12:37 AM
:D
 
12:56 AM
Total War: Rome 2 funny bugs:
@Psycogeek I heard popcorn should be eaten when if movie you are to watch, is action packed and doesn't require thinking from you I.e. turn off your brain movie.
 
1:19 AM
@Boris_yo ahh i got the whole bucket gone before they get done announcing all the productions companies and distribution logos, and the next releace trailers.
 
1:35 AM
Anyone wanna talk product recommendations here? I got a doozy
 
sure
 
I need some sort of cloud service or an automatic VPN that connects to a Linux box I have control of, and I need multiple systems connecting at at ime
Not able to use DirectAccess of Server 2012, has to run on Debian
 
@CanadianLuke wait, what? I'm not sure I entirely understand
 
ACK! I just logged in to SU and saw my rep dropped another 35 rep from a deleted question! GRRR
So we have Debian servers at the main building
 
you want the Linux box to go out on the public internet, connect to a VPN owned by someone else ("the cloud"), then connect to that VPN from elsewhere?
 
1:38 AM
And I have 9 satellite offices that I would like to have connected up to the server, so the computers on each of those LANs can see the server
 
and thereby access the box over IP through the VPN?
 
Nope
I control the Linux box
I have public IPs available
It's for my job
 
so you want the Linux box to host the VPN server itself, and others will VPN into the Linux box using some VPN client?
 
Yup
Preferably, with the Tomato-firmwared routers at each site
 
I'm not sure what the Tomato firmware is. is that Linux?
 
1:39 AM
Kinda. It's like dd-wrt, but a different flavour
 
how about openvpn?
 
Eventual goal: the user won't be able to tell the difference between being inside the main network and being at their network, in regards to shared drives in the My Computer window
OpenVPN... OK, I'll check that out
Easy enough to setup?
 
You can probably use bridged mode, and I think you can run it on the routers
pretty much
IIRC you can just install a client, and have a standard config file for all of them
hm, not bridged mode, my bad
 
@CanadianLuke OpenVPN "raw" is hard to set up, but OpenVPN Access Server is very easy
unfortunately, beyond 2 users, you have to pay like $1 per year per unique client (computer) to connect to OpenVPN Access Server
sorry, $6 per client
 
Eeek!
And what do you mean by raw vs Access Server? You mean the service they offer?
 
@CanadianLuke no
there are 3 things that are called OpenVPN something, and they're confusing in the distinctions
 
Apparently!
 
OpenVPN is an open source project that's just a source code tarball that you download and install, and configure files in /etc, like any other open source project
OpenVPN Access Server is a web admin interface (and client connection interface) wrapper around the OpenVPN open source project, with a per-client licensing fee per year, but all of the software is still hosted on your server(s)
 
2:06 AM
Ahhh
 
Private Tunnel is an OpenVPN cloud based solution where the VPN tunnel itself is hosted on the infrastructure of the company that maintains the OpenVPN open source project
 
I don't think they would pay for that
 
basically Private Tunnel is OpenVPN developer's way to make (lots of) money for their investment/work on the OpenVPN open source project
 
That'll be fine, I'll configure it myself. I just hope the CLI version is all I need, and the GUI
Err, client, not the GUI
 
OpenVPN (the open source project) has a CLI version for Windows, Mac and Linux, and you should be able to compile the client on Tomato... it also has a rudimentary GUI for Windows clients
also, the client and server use the same executable file, the only difference being that you use different options in the configuration file to tell it whether to be a client or server, so don't get tripped up by "where's the server?"
 
2:09 AM
Alright. And assuming that it's put into the router as the client, then everything behind the router should be able to see the main network's servers, correct?
 
the configuration is less painful than some other projects.... one big reason is that there's really only one configuration file (unless you count the client/server SSL certificates), whereas some projects, ahem Postfix, ahem Asterisk, have like 1000000 configuration files
 
Have you set OpenVPN up yourself?
 
@CanadianLuke well you will probably have to set up layer 3 routing rules for that particular activity, meaning, you'll have to use iptables to tell your router that it needs to forward packets destined for the main network's servers
I've set it up for simple client/server use cases, but not bridging networks... however, I think I know what would be required to set it up in your particular use case
 
Alrighty
 
once you configure iptables appropriately and the openvpn client on each Tomato router, then basically, what will happen is, if your private OpenVPN subnet is for example 192.168.16.0 with a netmask of 255.255.255.0 (meaning valid IPs 192.168.16.1 through 192.168.16.254), you would be able to hit an IP like 192.168.16.17 from a client connected to that Tomato router
and when you hit that IP address, the IP layer routing rules in iptables will forward the packets on through the VPN tunnel to the appropriate destination
if you need to join a whole LAN network with multiple subnets to the VPN, that's also possible, but you'll have to use layer 2 bridging on the server side, meaning, the VPN server will need to put the connecting clients into the same subnet as the clients in your LAN
so if your local LAN where you have all your internal company servers is on 192.168.18.0/20 or something like that, you'd have to assign IP addresses within that range to each connecting Tomato router when they connect to the VPN server
you'd still have to do the layer 3 routing on the Tomato routers though, that part is a given, unless you want to also bridge the remote clients into your LAN subnet
which is possible too. that way you would have remote clients in the same IP space as your local clients
meaning, 192.168.1.81 could be the guy sitting next to you and 192.168.1.82 could be a computer in Singapore
 
2:17 AM
I'd need that last way
The subnet right now is 192.168.0.0/19 (I know, fucked up), and the servers sit at 0.1 to 0.15
 
ok, that's doable too, you'd have to set up a local DHCP server on the OpenVPN server box, or use an existing DHCP server within your LAN, and in the OpenVPN configuration, tell the clients that they need to hit that DHCP server to get an IP address
and basically think of it this way: you'll have two layer 2 bridges going on.. or actually, one bridge between the LAN and the VPN server, and one bridge for each Tomato router
 
OK, seems simple enough
 
the LAN<->VPN server layer 2 bridge pulls the VPN's own subnet into the subnet of your LAN, and the Tomato Router<->client layer 2 bridge pulls each client connecting to a router into your local LAN's IP space
 
If I set it up that way, I can keep managing the systems from my main office
 
the main difference between IP masquerading (layer 3 routing) on the Tomato routers and Layer 2 is, that, with Layer 3, you wouldn't be able to directly route inbound to one of the remote clients
but if you Layer 2 bridge the remote clients in, then you can hit them directly by IP
 
2:21 AM
So do Layer 2, and I should be fine?
 
yeah, layer 2 on both ends
 
OK
And I guess I can just create some DHCP scopes for the VPN networks?
 
by the way this should be fairly efficient and performant, especially if you use the UDP version of OpenVPN's protocol; it has both UDP and TCP; TCP is generally reserved for cases where an ISP disallows UDP
and depending on the number of clients you might want to have a reasonably big pipe and decent CPU power on the main OpenVPN server
 
Business networks at all sites, so the ISP better not care!
Lol
I got a 100Mbps U/D :) Shared, but still...
 
oh, one more thing -- are you wanting to do split tunneling? split tunneling is where your remote clients will only tunnel through the VPN if they are hitting a box within your LAN
the opposite of split tunneling is full tunneling, where every single IP connection except localhost goes through your VPN
 
2:23 AM
That would be the preferred way... I'm sure that's just a setting though
I just want internet hits going out directly, and LAN hits going through the VPN
 
it's just a setting, yes, but just be cognizant that you need to set it that way
I believe the default if you leave the configuration in an absolutely minimal state is full tunneling
 
Alrighty. I appreciate the input
I gotta tweak everything anyways lol
And yea, the server I would be installing it on is a dual-processor quad-core xeon system :)
 
as far as OpenVPN configurations go, this one definitely ranks in the moderate to difficult range, since it's not just a point to point thing where you have one box connecting to one client for full tunneling, which is the simplest possible network
but I have faith in you
there are tons of examples online
 
Excellent!
 
if you know the OSI networking model reasonably well, and CIDR, I don't think you'll get very confused
most people who say "ugh OpenVPN is so weird, I can't figure it out" don't understand either OSI or CIDR
 
2:27 AM
OSI confuses me until I remember it again, but CIDR is simple
 
by the way, OpenVPN is about 100,000 times simpler than IPsec/FreeSwan/Radius, so if you hear anyone mention the word "Radius", tell them "Too complicated"; if they insist, run away / quit your job / go to another planet
 
We use FreeRADIUS right now
 
god help you
 
Already set up, I won't touch it!
Actually, I'm finding out who my true work friends are right now, so I don't know how long I'll be there... But I want to at least help the people who have supported me
Hopefully, one big issue that came up is resolved in a HAPPY way though, cause otherwise I love the job
 
big issue? uh oh. hope it works out for you
 
2:33 AM
Apparently, permissions got changed on the server and opened up sensitive information to other teachers and students, should they have decided to be snoopy... But of course, when I'm running around fixing stuff all summer for the few staff members that are there, I don't have time to rush through all the folder permissions that the last guy set
So, I've been a bit paranoid about setting permissions these last few days
 
yikes
I'm in a, uh, let's say, extremely customer-focused white collar job where a customer is basically paying my entire salary as part of a contract, so my bosses within my company are extremely careful about what we say to the customer to avoid the perception of any issues or weaknesses on our part
one time when I was a newbie I said something to a customer that made it seem like my managers weren't really taking care of my stuff -- it wasn't rude or offensive in any way, but I was basically asking the customer for info that my managers should've provided me, that got me a talking to lol
 
I'm waiting for the committee meeting to determine what will happen, but my main boss says that he made that mistake before and he turned out fine, so I feel better
I hate when that happens!
I've been there too, but I also told that particular manager that unless I'm the one responsible for a system getting setup, I'm not taking responsibility for the previous administrator
If I see something wrong, I will fix it, but I'm not hunting for irregularities when other people are not able to do their job for unrelated matters
 
then there was that one damn email that got forwarded to like, the customer's boss's boss's boss's boss, and it contained a one-paragraph micro-rant about the capabilities or competencies of certain members of a department within the customer's organization which we ... don't particularly love (and to be honest, the guy I sent the email to 100% agrees with me on that point; that's why I felt OK sending that to him)
but he forwarded it up the chain because 90% of the email was literally "we have a huge issue and this needs to be dealt with ASAP"
and once people started re-reading the email, then the shit hit the fan
at first everyone was super thrilled that I identified the problem and that we were able to get it fixed
reaction 1 was just a pure, blind panic to stop the app from going to production with that particular issue
 
I think I handled the email-discipline well that I had before this incident... I closed a ticket cause the user was no longer with the company, and the computer had already been swapped out... Got in big shit, but explained that I was following what the previous techs did. No more trouble on that one
 
then someone re-read the email and complained to my boss
bleh
 
2:38 AM
Don't you love users?
:P
 
well I'm extremely careful about what I write in emails addressed to the customer now
when I'm talking to people within our company, I can pretty much say anything in an email that isn't a personal attack and it will have zero consequences
but if I'm talking to the customer I have to put on my "what would happen if this got forwarded to the boss's boss's boss's boss" face
sometimes when I really need to lay out a complicated email to the customer, I'll send it to a team lead or my boss and get them to clear it first before I even send it to the customer
 
True
That's what I do as well, just good practise
 
the thing is, the people I work with on the customer side on a daily basis really like me, and I have a great rapport with them, but even so, the customer relationship is a much more formal one than it could be, and the overt formality is sometimes a barrier to frank and useful communication
 
My customers are now just my staff
 
I feel like things sometimes end up being sub-optimal because I don't have the ability to speak to them as I would a coworker within my company, like, offering suggestions and opinions, or asking them why certain things are a certain way, because maybe I have ideas for doing things better
I prefer business relationships where people can speak their mind, as long as it isn't hate speech or personal attacks
 
2:45 AM
I have lots of great ideas! And I can express them all I want, then it gets shot down if it costs money :)
 
lol
I have lots of great ideas! If I express them to the customer, I'm likely to get fired... if I express them to my managers, I'm likely to get pat on the head and then promptly ignored
 
Well, that's stupid...
 
there are a few cases where there are opportunities to sneak things through, but usually they are very minor cases, and the opportunities are a special case
I'd say that the #1 reason why I like my job is that some of the customer folks I work with are cooperative, easy to get along with, and share my interests
 
No, I'm wondering why ideas to the customer can get you fired...
 
oh -- I mean, suggesting things to the customer is generally left to formal documents that have to go through all kinds of bureaucracy... only the most minor things can just be flat-out suggested like "it'd be nice if..." etc
our management doesn't like it because they always want to be in charge of coming up with the best way to "sell" an idea
I like to meet the customer in-person though (it happens occasionally; I work in a building about 2 miles away from where they are).. if I'm there with one of my "buddies" on the customer side, and none of my own management are there, I can pretty much say whatever and they won't tell my management I said it, lol
 
2:53 AM
Ahhh OK. Job security for the managers
 
that much is really nice because I get to let them know how I see things from my perspective, even if nothing comes of it, at least they know
customer wanted to hire me as a direct employee working for them at one point, but the job req came and went before I even knew about it, and the guy who asked me to apply didn't let me know about it until it was too late
so that says something: they want me to stick around... lol
 
That's always nice
I love how my bosses (not on the tech chain) are also recommending me to their friends though to fix their computers
 
lol I get that all the time
and my coworkers will come to me in the middle of the day with their smartphones asking random questions
"how do I install FoxFi?"
it's amazing how many people working in IT (in my case, a mish-mosh of testers and developers) are essentially computer illiterate
I forgive the people who are 50+, but like, 35 y.o.? come on. you should know better
 
Yea, but you know, learn it from Googles and Exchanging Stacks :P
 
I definitely learn from teh Googles, but I like to think that I arrived at SE over a year ago with pretty much a fairly comprehensive computer literacy overall, despite all I've learned since
I learn more about programming from SO than anywhere else these days, but for non-programming tech knowledge, it's all in my brain, most of the time
SO never fails to amaze me in how a well crafted google search will yield a question that's already been asked and answered about exactly what I need, with an accepted answer and at least 4 upvotes
I rarely have to ask (or answer) questions there anymore because there's so much already there, and all I can do is laugh, copy and paste the answer, and upvote the damn thing
 
3:02 AM
Same here!
I struggle to find some new questions, but I've been expanding onto new networks
 
Yea... Look at the last few questions I posted on SU, as opposed to gaming.SE or Freelancing.SE (where I'm a mod)
 
3:26 AM
this is the kind of thing I end up asking >_>
0
Q: Slower Engine Start When "Cold"

somequixoticI have a 2012 Honda Civic EX (4 Cyl Automatic, 5-speed transmission, Regular Gasoline). I get it serviced regularly and it has around 28k miles. The engine light has never come on. I am noticing this summer, in moderate to high humidity weather, 70 - 85 F, in the morning (when the car has been o...

 
yeah, I end up asking questions on sites where I am not a domain expert, and answering questions on sites where I know my shit -- basically, I use the site correctly, lol
 
Yup lol
OK, server is up and running on my home server... Now to try the client connections
 
3:47 AM
that doc looks extremely helpful. have you looked at it?
 
Not yet, but it's loading now
 
that diagram looks like what you want, except that you'll have more than one client
 
Very nice... Except I won't be able to use the GUI :P
 
and the OpenVPN client is the "Site 1 switch" (same computer/box)
basically you'll use Linux's bridge-utils to create a "br0" device that bridges between tap0 (the OpenVPN interface) and eth0 (or eth1, whichever eth is the internet interface)
 
And that's already setup for the wireless
 
3:52 AM
oh... well you'll have to make another bridge device then
it can go higher than br0... br1, br2, br10, br100
 
Understood
 
i guess the new bridge device will have to bridge tap0 and the bridge device that serves as the gateway
so you'll have a bridge bridging a bridge....
 
br0 is the "standard" for the wireless config, but I can add more!
 
yo dawg
 
It's easy enough
 
3:53 AM
yo dawg i herd u liek bridges so we made u a bridge so yo can bridge while yo bridge
 
rofl
 
When doing a game of Telephone with my cadets during a leadership weekend, I gave that quote... I can't remember what, but I think "How many" was all that was left at the end
 
4:05 AM
!!info
!!tell CanadianLuke welcome
 
@CanadianLuke Welcome to Root Access chat for Super Users! Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help.
 
well, got all my virtual containers on my server up and running -- that's superuser, 4freedom, my personal container
with 14 gigs of RAM free (with cache/buffers counted as not free) or 30 GB (minus cache/buffers)
 
virtual containers?
 
@CanadianLuke it's complicated -- I have a Debian server too, a dedicated server, running various workloads. up until today, it was running OpenVZ as a virtualization platform, but I magically migrated all the guests over to Linux-VServer
the problem with OpenVZ is that it's basically a fork of Linux kernel version 2.6.32, and they aren't upgrading to a newer kernel... like, ever (until Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7 is out)
 
Oh lovely! I've heard about VM to VM transferring being easy :P
 
4:09 AM
@CanadianLuke VM to VM transferring is usually a royal pain in the ass, but OpenVZ and Linux-VServer are similar enough in their implementation that migrating from one to the other is not so difficult
 
Awesome
 
basically, OpenVZ is this enterprise-grade, moderate-overhead (3 to 10%) container virtualization where everything runs on the host kernel, and all the guests have to be Linux, but it's way faster than, say, VMware because it doesn't do full OS virtualization
Linux-VServer is more of a hobbyist / enthusiast project that aims to be better than OpenVZ, but it has less enterprise backing, although its main advantages are lower overhead (more like 0.5 - 1%), as good or better security and guest isolation, and you can run new Linux kernels with it
OpenVZ is like, 20 kernel releases behind mainline. Linux-VServer is one kernel release behind mainline. Both kernels require a third-party patch and rebuild of the kernel unless your distro ships it, though.
 
Nice
I'm just going to find a way to import my client certificate over to my cell... Test this sucker out! One sec
 
sounds like you're learning OpenVPN very fast...
 
Learning? Fuck no! Following a tutorial and correcting 7 errors with Google searches? Yea
2
 
4:15 AM
same difference
 
Bob
@CanadianLuke that's the definition of learning :P
well, to us anyway
 
oh hi @Bob
 
... Good point @Bob
 
Bob
@somequixotic hi
 
!!say Bob "I'm working again :D"
 
4:15 AM
@somequixotic Bob "I'm working again :D"
 
.......
 
Bob
It was broken? o.O
 
well.
 
@somequixotic tell: Redirect command result to user/message. /tell msg_id|usr_name cmdName [cmdArgs]
@somequixotic say: User-taught command: $0
 
Bob
!!help learn
 
4:16 AM
@Bob learn: Teaches me a command. /learn cmdName outputPattern [inputRegex [description]]
 
Bob
!!info say
 
long story short, I wanted gigabit port speeds on my dedicated server, and the ability to start up a working KVM guest as a build server, because OpenSUSE 12.3 requires full virtualization thanks to damn systemd
 
@Bob Command say, created by Bob on Mon, 12 Aug 2013 16:31:23 GMT, invoked 1 times
 
I was running OpenVZ kernel 2.6.32, which had a bug in its ethernet driver for r8139 and KVM was too old for the userspace tools
solution: migrate all my virtual containers from OpenVZ to linux-vserver :D
and upgrade to Linux 3.10.9 with the Linux-VServer patch
 
Bob
!!learn say $0 .* "Repeat a message. Best used with the tell command."
 
4:17 AM
@Bob Command say already exists
 
Bob
..
!!forget say
 
@Bob Command say forgotten.
 
:( I can't copy the client.key file via SMB to my phone! :(
 
Bob
!!learn say $0 .* "Repeat a message. Best used with the tell command."
 
@Bob Command say learned
 
4:17 AM
@CanadianLuke email it to yourself
 
Bob
!!help say
 
@Bob say: User-taught command: Repeat a message. Best used with the tell command. $0
 
Bob
!!tell somequixotic say hi
 
!!tell Bob say "I'm working again! :D"
 
@somequixotic hi
@Bob "I'm working again! :D"
 
Bob
4:18 AM
yay!
!!forget say
 
@Bob Command say forgotten.
 
Bob
!!learn say $0 .* "Repeat a message. Best used with the `tell` command."
 
@Bob Command say learned
 
Bob
!!say test
 
@Bob test
 
Bob
4:19 AM
!!help say
 
@Bob say: User-taught command: Repeat a message. Best used with the tell command. $0
 
!!learn howtolearn "Learning? Fuck no! Following a tutorial and correcting 7 errors with Google searches? Fuck yea!"
 
@CanadianLuke Command howtolearn learned
 
!!howtolearn
 
@CanadianLuke Learning?
 
Bob
4:19 AM
lol
 
Bob
try quotes
 
!!help learn
 
@somequixotic learn: Teaches me a command. /learn cmdName outputPattern [inputRegex [description]]
@CanadianLuke Command howtolearn learned
 
!!howtolearn
 
4:20 AM
@CanadianLuke Learning? Fuck no! Following a tutorial and correcting 7 errors with Google searches? Fuck yea!
 
can you write commands in terms of other commands?
 
Bob
@somequixotic oh, you completed the mad-scientist experiment? :D
@somequixotic example?
 
@Bob !!learn thay !!tell $0 .* or something like that
so that !!thay Bob foo would cause Cavil to say @Bob foo
 
Gah, it was readable as root only, my client.key file
 
@Bob On IRC, I talked to the Linux-VServer kernel patch maintainer and lead developer, Herbert Potzl, from Austria, and he helped me through the migration from OpenVZ, then I donated $25 to him over PayPal because I was feeling generous because he was so nice, and then we talked about various things
it was pretty neat.
that guy is way smarter than me -- I mean, every time Linus Torvalds releases a stable kernel, he ports several thousand SLOC of kernel C code to the new kernel, tests it, updates based on any ABI changes, etc.
 
Bob
4:23 AM
@somequixotic not afaik
 
guest isolation isn't particularly simple to do, and several hosting companies rely on linux-vserver, so it has to be airtight
yet somehow he does it :)
 
Bob
Can anyone see anything to edit in this answer?
16
A: My RAM sticks got wet, can I still use them?

ernieThey'll be useable if you haven't created any new electrical paths. That means: no corrosion which created new paths no leftover liquid (which would be conductive) To address the first, you'll have wanted to make sure you cleaned them quickly and thoroughly, especially as you mentioned you s...

 
OK, port forwarding, then I can tet! Finally!
 
Bob
I accidentally downvoted it on mobile about an hour ago D:
 
@Bob D:
 
4:25 AM
Just remove a space or something, then undo your vote
 
Bob
eh. bump + step closer to community wiki. ah well, he doesn't deserve the downvote either. a wasted edit is probably bettter
 
BRB, rebooting router for updating port forwarding :S
 
Bob
lol. thanks @somequixotic
I was just about to change that i.e. to an e.g.
 
:( Connection Refused when I try connecting
 
Bob
4:29 AM
@CanadianLuke what are you doing? can you summarise or should I go reading above? :P
 
@CanadianLuke check netstat -pan for openvpn listening, then check iptables -L
@Bob just looking at this diagram should give you a good idea of wtf he's trying to do.
 
Bob
bridging... @_@
 
he's trying to use OpenVPN as a way to layer 2 bridge disparate networks over the public Internet.
essentially.
 
TLS Handshake failed
Putting server in DMZ then I'll try again
No, I'm doing a personal one first, my phone to my server on my carrier's network
 
@CanadianLuke ciphers? try in verbose mode to see if it's a cipher mismatch
and ... er... make sure the certs all match up :P
@Bob once he does this on his work network, the end result will be that every computer is going to belong to the same subnet for LAN communication purposes, but for public Internet access, they'll just go directly through their local default gateway (Internet traffic won't be routed through the VPN).
 
4:34 AM
How do I check the ciphers?
And no, netstat -pan doesn't show ANYTHING with vpn
 
@CanadianLuke running openvpn client and/or server with -v (verbose) should spew errors if the cipher negotiation fails for the TLS tunnel
@CanadianLuke on the server???
 
Right, on the server... On the client, I have logging level set to 1
The client is Android
 
hm
I've used the android openvpn client successfully before...
 
I'm exhausted... I'll work on this another time!
Lol. Thanks though @somequixotic for all your help
 
okay. I need to sleep too.
you're welcome. problems are to be expected; be persistent though!
 
Bob
4:37 AM
@somequixotic works for me with tun, not sure about tap
though, I need to set up something to persist my iptables past reboots
some of my VPSes were restarted at some point and my VPNs are broken now :\
@somequixotic 'night
 
@CanadianLuke wtf, google maps?
 
I think that's the SE office
 
ah, I figured as much
 
Bob
> Microsoft could've done this with UAC by sub-classifying their UAC Alerts, and if it was specifically a virus, then disabling close for a few seconds when the window opens, and having gigantic type that says Hey, so you know, you're getting a virus.
12
A: How Do I Avoid Users Becoming Numb to Warnings?

ArmanTo the question of: How do I keep the user aware of important events without innundating them? Make sure your updates are meaningful. UAC, TOS', and EULA's are constantly skipped over because they don't provide meaningful content to their user. UAC, for many, is simply annoying - users fee...

...
No, no they couldn't.
 
4:43 AM
@Bob well, actually, if Windows Defender detected a malicious executable that's requesting elevated privileges, they could. right?
I mean, if a virus sneaks past Windows Defender, it can't detect it obviously
but if it knows it's a virus, it could be like, HEY DUDE, REALLY, SRSLY... R U SURE???????
 
Bob
@somequixotic Except that would be outside the jurisdiction of UAC.
UAC is for elevation. Nothing else.
If it were to run a full A/v signature check on every program I wanted to elevate... fuck no.
 
also, Windows Defender on Windows 8 will by default quarantine any virus files to begin with, so they won't even get the chance to load into a process, much less request elevation
you won't even get that far without extracting your virus-ridden file from Windows Defender with tweezers
 
Bob
Actually, mine just warns me.
But I like that behaviour more.
 
hmm maybe i changed the setting then
 
Bob
Norton will either quarantine (with no warning) or delete if it's too big to quarantine (!!!)
 
4:46 AM
rofl
 
Bob
At least it usually warns before deletion, but there's no way to refuse.
I've had to move a certain file, 'delete' and move it back.
 
Windows Defender can quarantine with no file size limit (why the fuck does Norton care how big it is?!) and it'll definitely let you know that it quarantined it
unfortunately, it seems to think that everything from cheathappens.com is a virus -- which I guess is fair because online game companies consider trainers to be hacks and can get you banned if you login with an online achievement account or whatever, even if you're playing singleplayer
but I'm pretty sure that cheathappens trainers aren't like, trying to steal your data or be malicious, aside from messing with the game you downloaded it to mess with
 
Bob
@somequixotic more that they hook into the memory of another program
 
@Bob right.
 
Bob
I've created my own trainers in Cheat Engine before, that keep getting flagged by Norton.
I wonder how debuggers avoid that.
 
4:49 AM
i wonder if it scans plain text files for scripting language lines that do trainer-like things.... XD
in Ruby you could redefine the functions to different names and it'd be none the wiser, haha
oh no; what have I unleashed? I think I've created a new monster.... now Norton will take 7 minutes to scan a 30 kb text file for heuristics that look like virus-y ruby script, when it's just a note to your professor
 
Bob
lol
 
shhhh, don't tell Norton's engineers that Ruby can call arbitrary win32 APIs and therefore makes for a very sneaky virus vector (with a ruby runtime, of course)
 
Bob
I also find it rather amusing that Norton calls their heuristic scan engine "sonar"
 
sonar in absolute zero temperatures, maybe... judging from its speed
 
Bob
hardly the most accurate
For those finding this question off the MultiCollider-SuperDropdown, stick around! We have many more interesting questions here. The environment is friendly, and our mods don't usually poke people with sharp sticks. — Undo 10 hours ago
heh.
 
4:59 AM
@gerrit I bet you can guess - he was probably taped to the next launch. — Undo 15 hours ago
bed for real. see you guys in a few hours
 
Bob
@somequixotic cya
 
5:34 AM
hm
poking with sticks is how science is done
heh, another question I can post horror story pictures to ;p
and not get complaints from harrymc over encouraging people to accidentally set stuff on fire
 
wut?
 
lol
so I DID post an image with attribution of someone who claimed to have run a computer in a bath of alcohol. With lots of warnings.
In an entirely obvious attempt to rep-whore.
;p
 
Ah, haha
Harry and bountied questions…
 
@slhck: yeah ;p
and this is one of the things I am too familiar with
my computers end up pretty icky on the inside after a few years
then there's my SGI keyboard
I'm actually afraid to clean it cause its so horrid ;p
 
5:57 AM
But why do they get so dirty?
I mean, I've only used laptops over the last 10 years
 
@slhck: Its where I live mainly
 
Heat, dust? Or smoke?
 
at the moment, I have 2 constructions sites, 2 demolition sites, about 20 lanes of roads, and port nearby ;p
 

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