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1:29 AM
The Odd Life of Timothy Green is a 2012 American fantasy drama film co-written and directed by Peter Hedges and released by Walt Disney Pictures. Based on a concept by Ahmet Zappa, the film is about a magical pre-adolescent boy whose personality and naïveté have profound effects on the people in his town. It received mixed reviews from critics and had modest ticket sales in its debut weekend. Plot The film is told from the perspective of Cindy (Jennifer Garner) and Jim Green (Joel Edgerton), as they explain their experience with Timothy (CJ Adams) in an effort to persuade an adoption a...
@trig You didn't tell us you were a movie star :)
1 hour later…
2:53 AM
@SethJ - I very much disagree with what you just wrote. Historical ignorance may be the problem here (assuming that the OP wasn't actually intending to refer to the inquisition), but correcting people's misconceptions is not. Do we not have a responsibility - on this site especially - to clear up such errors?? Historically, when Jews described the mass conversion and the exile, they used words like שמד and גירות. They did not call it אינקוויזיציה. This is a recent problem, and I don't think historians should just let it go. — Shimon bM 12 mins ago
(notification ping @shimonbm that your comment is being discussed)
@Isaac Moses, @msh210, @doubleaa
is this our job?
@SethJ Refuting an assumption of the question seems to be considered acceptable for an answer.
(@doubleaa fair)
@doubleaa I wholeheartedly agree.
@SethJ (you couldn't have pung him. i used my all powerful mod superping :) )
@SethJ Ok, so correcting that should be acceptable. Perhaps the way to do so is via comment and edit, but if the OP made such a historical overlap, perhaps they need to rethiink exactly what they mean to ask
2:57 AM
But I think that only applies when it's relevant. Otherwise common practice seems to be, "I think you meant to ask about X when you asked about Y. Here's the information you're seeking, because your intent is still pretty obvious."
I'm distinguishing between where someone said yayin nesach when they mean stam yeinam, and more major misunderstandings like this
@SethJ Maybe he's asking why the Conversos were persecuted?
Why did God make the Conversos's lives so difficult when they were trying hard to keep Torah in secret?
ping @IsaacMoses I'm guessing you have some input to share
@doubleaa I think he's asking why the devastating era of persecution that threatened to wipe out Sephardic Jewry occurred.
FTR it's worth noting that the answer in question so far has 4 upvotes, 4 downvotes and 1 NAA flag
@doubleaa would you like to see another NAA flag? That can be arranged.
@SethJ I have no particular desire to, but I'm guessing such a flag will end up being marked helpful whether we keep the answer or not.
3:05 AM
Aiight., I'll have to catch up on comments in the AM.
@doubleaa, @et al, guten time zone.
@SethJ I think the answer is saying that's like asking why the Jews were hit with Hurricane Sandy/Katrina etc.
It's a global issue not a Jewish one, so looking for Jewish specific reasons is harder.
@SethJ TZT
@doubleaa the Holocaust and Hurbanim throughout history were part of larger events, too. Including the Batei Mikdash.
1 hour later…
4:10 AM
posted on May 02, 2013

Today is thirty-seven days, which is five weeks and two days of the Omer. Today's attribute: Gevurah ShebeYesod

@HodofHod, is that your name because lag b'omer is your birthday?
I thought of withdrawing the question. No one seems to have given any thought to answer it.
By looking at the answers I gave one could easily determine I was referring to the shmad and expulsion
@shulem I agree. I think Jason was making a kind of silly distinction
@Daniel It's a very important historical one. The fact that we understood what shulem intended doesn't change that.
And now that you know, you can be more precise in the future.
5:03 AM
@HodofHod ALEX IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!
5:20 AM
I can see why he came out of retirement, too.....
Jul 24 '12 at 18:18, by HodofHod
Just spoke with Alex, he's in the other room. He's been having a grand time without us, but he should be back on site relatively soon.
.....or not.....
Collection of fun @alex related chat messages from his vacation:
Feb 11 at 5:13, by HodofHod
Just commented on one of Alex's answers and it occurred to me: If and when he does visit again, he'll probably be immediately scared off by the huge red number of inbox messages.
Feb 17 at 19:11, by Monica Cellio
@IsaacMoses I miss Alex. :-(
Nov 22 '12 at 18:33, by Shmuel Brin
@IsaacMoses We lost a lot when Alex left :(
Sep 27 '12 at 6:33, by Double AA
Mazel Tov Alex on 60K! Ad Meah V'esrim!
Feb 17 at 5:16, by Double AA
I love how Alex was just awarded a badge.
Jul 18 '12 at 17:16, by Shmuel Brin
Mazal Tov, may he be a Chossid Yerei Shamayim and Lamdan.
Jul 18 '12 at 17:17, by msh210
@ShmuelBrin Amen! Mazal tov, @alex!
Jul 18 '12 at 17:23, by Double AA
@ShmuelBrin And an Anav like his father.
5:53 AM
@DoubleAA Can we pin this?
First Mekubal and then Alex. We still need Yahu to come back for a true reunion :)
1 hour later…
6:56 AM
@Daniel Just made it up? Don't you know the story with... the Shpoler Zeide I think it was? hang on, I'll Google it bl"n when I've caught up on backread....
@HodofHod @Daniel chabad.org/2144006
@msh210 I..... may... vaguely remember this....
Great story.
7:22 AM
@msh210 That reminds me: I can't tell you how much I wish we could have chabad.org's glossary hover-pops.
7:49 AM
A: Does this site have a glossary?

DoriIn my opinion… Short term: I think that the right place for this type of information is the tag wiki. For example, if you want to know what muktzeh means, just hover over the muktzeh tag on main: Longer term: The NY Times web site has a feature where, when you select a word or phrase, a...

A: Does this site have a glossary?

MenachemWe should have a glossary. Every user should be able to send words they don't know to the glossary, and the knowledgeable users can write a definition. This way only words that are actually used on the site will appear in the glossary. There would also be a way to link words, so that (for exam...

1 hour later…
9:10 AM
@DoubleAA I never even got around to watching that one.
4 hours later…
1:19 PM
@msh210 hmm never seen that one
Here's a remarkable Alex fact. Even with more than 1000 posts, Alex averages 6.275 upvotes / post
1:44 PM
@DoubleAA Good enough, but it's still (or perhaps more so now) not a valid answer.
2:08 PM
@DoubleAA woo hoo!!!!
2:21 PM
@shulem Don't withdraw the question. It's a perfectly good one, and as valid as any other asking about similar historical events. Just because some people are more focused on terminology than on answering the question, is not a reason to delete it. It's been edited, I think fairly, and, in my opinion, the edit invalidates the non-answer (not that I thought it was valid in the first place).
2:38 PM
@DoubleAA @Daniel, The distinction isn't silly, and it's proper to point it out and/or correct it. However, any interpretation of the question other than that it actually meant the Expulsion was, IMO, silly. @SethJ is right that this is not a case of the question being based on an incorrect premise, such that undermining the premise is a valid answer.
@IsaacMoses Yeah, that's really what I meant by the distinction being silly.
... consider Q: "I aged my whiskey in casks that had previously stored wine for my local church. Is the whiskey traif now?" A: "No, the whiskey is not traif, since it never had a body that could be torn." No, this is not a valid answer.
@IsaacMoses Exactly. Do we have some kind of policy for that type of question?
Where what is technically being asked is different from what is obviously intended?
@Daniel I don't know that there's a written policy about it, but the right thing to do is to help the question's words better express its meaning and answer the question as intended. If the actual meaning is truly ambiguous, then ask the author to clarify and possibly close in the mean time.
@IsaacMoses I think the problem is that for both this question about the Spanish Inquisition and this one that you have just brought up, it is so obvious what the questioner intended that perhaps nobody would even notice that something was wrong until someone else comes along and posts an answer for the wrong question
2:48 PM
@Daniel So fix it.
(... The "traif" case is not a perfect example, since the word actually means not-kosher, generally in Yiddish, so what I'd probably do in that case is just link the word to this definition, but you know what I mean.)
@Daniel in retrospect we probaby should have closed the question while awaiting clarification. I don't think there's a formal policy; it's all a judgment call. (Remember, anybody with 3K can vote to close, and closing is not permanent.) This case, and @IsaacMoses's example, are complicated by the fact that it might look like we know what's being asked...and we're wrong. Unfortunate, but it happens.
Thanks @IsaacMoses. I am sorry my knowledge of our tag set is still so deficient; you and msh210 do a lot of tag cleanup for us! Much appreciated.
@MonicaCellio I don't quite deserve to be in the same sentence with @msh210 wrt tag cleanup, but thanks! :) When I see a new question with only one or two tags on it, it tends to stick out to me as begging for more tags.
3:06 PM
@IsaacMoses it does stick out, yes. And sometimes my reaction to seeing a tag cleanup is "we have a tag for that?". (Not so much in this case; the tags you picked make sense and I should have remembered them. But I know I've had this reaction with some of @msh210's retags; his memory for this is amazing.)
@MonicaCellio Memory, which comes from years of practice :)
hello all
You know why I am here
ok will leave then bye
@shulem, Do you have something in particular that you want to discuss?
@IsaacMoses Memory, which I should probably save for more important use, since I always forget other things.
3:22 PM
@msh210 I don't think you have to worry about running out of memory :) You have about 2.5 petabytes of storage up there
Yes well too late now I have deleted the post
@shulem Why did you delete it?
Do you really want to know
@shulem Yes
I consider it kefira to talk like that about the MB and MGa
and i dont want to be part of it
to downvote a MB and MGa just because you dont like them
3:25 PM
@shulem I don't remember what was posted there?
Ooh are you not talking about the Spanish Inquisition post?
well I posted an MB and was downvoted
Just because the MB couldnt speak English
@shulem I'm almost 100% sure no one downvoted a post because he didn't like the Mishna B'rura.
the comment is still there
... or because the Chafetz Chayim couldn't speak English.
He spoke polish russsian and yidiish so he couldnt speak english so what
3:27 PM
(I assume he couldn't, anyway. I actually have no idea.)
@shulem I think you were misunderstanding him
yes that is the MB the chofest chayim
didnt you know
@Daniel Of course he was: he spoke Polish.
because the prefix "ha" in hebrew does not just mean the
why call him different names
so why say he couldnt speak english
the comment is there
3:28 PM
@shulem Because you were making an argument based on an argument in English
i understood him very welld
well its the same in polish yiddish russianb chinese as well
@msh210 You can go all the way to 100%. There's only one downvote, and it's mine, and it was due to the fact that the answer was based on incorrect reasoning.
i know its yours
@shulem But not Hebrew
and the herd willl follow
so why mention he couldnt speak english then
3:29 PM
Unfortunately, as a site mod, I'm not supposed to ignore people in the chat. For those who wish to, you click on the user's name or avatar on the left side of your screen and then click "ignore". (I don't know how to do it on mobile; sorry.)
moshe rabeinu also couldnt
@shulem Because you were making an argument based on English, not Hebrew
@shulem May all herds merit to follow after such a leader as Isaac.
i dont follow the herd
@DoubleAA Oh, please. Follow reason.
3:30 PM
i have only given one upvote so far
and only one has deserved it
@IsaacMoses ... Avinu.
ok will leave you
@shulem That's unfortunate. I have given you many more than 1
@shulem Perhaps your standards aren't in line with the standards of this site
no i meant the chat
there are a few decent people
3:31 PM
@shulem This canard, as always, is inappropriate. You have no right to assume people are judging based on personality, especially when they are explaining their reasoning.
here i mean real people who understand a svoro
@shulem I assume this one?:
Q: Surviving the zombie apocalypse?

not-vramOne of Maimonidies 13 principles of faith is believing in the resurrection of the dead wherein the dead will arise from their graves. My question is have chazal provided any guidelines for how we are to survive this zombie apocalypse? This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be take...

fred seems to be
shulem, you did not post what the Mishna Berura said. You couldn't have. Your post had to do with English grammar which R Kagan didn't know.
its the same in pollish russain chinese and what not
yiddish or whatever else they spoke
3:32 PM
@shulem But it is different in Hebrew
Different languages work differntly.
I have no idea about those other languages
The question was about a Hebrew formulation
So the answer, if about grammar, should be about Hebrew grammar, not English
or Polish, Russian, Chinese, or whatever
@shulem Did the M"B explain his reasoning based on translation into another language or not?
As proof Hebrew's treatment of articles differs from English's, consider the indefinite article, which English uses extensively and Hebrew does not even notate.
If not, then when I impeach an argument based on such translation, that has nothing to do with the M"B.
3:35 PM
@DoubleAA Do you know that for a fact, or are we all just assuming it?
(Of course, it's a very reasonable assumption.)
@msh210 I don't think it really matters unless it turns out that the M"B was actually making an argument based on English translation
@msh210 Whatever; it's beside the point.
@Daniel @IsaacMoses I agree. Just wondering.
@msh210 I assume it. At the very least we can feel confident that he didn't use it in his analysis of the Bracha. I hold him to too high a standard for such an error.
@SethJ Just FYI only mods can undelete what a mod has deleted.
@DoubleAA did I act prematurely? I'm sorry; I saw the flag and comment discussion before I saw chat.
3:40 PM
@MonicaCellio I was not judging your decision. It just means the OP needs to request undeletion via flag or in chat instead of doing it themselves.
On the other hand it might have been quite a hassle explaining to them how to delete it from the outset.
@DoubleAA I see the rollback now, and I'll undelete so everybody has access for further improvement.
@MonicaCellio I don't think the chat added anything.
@IsaacMoses you're probably right, but I didn't mean to stomp on an active discussion. Fixed now, and if @shulem (or anybody else) wants to edit further, go for it. Shulem, if you want to delete a post, please use the "delete" link under it (next to "edit").
Wow. Am kshei oref hu
He seems to be right on the cusp between becoming a great contributer and just walking away
I guess we'll see what happens
3:52 PM
@DoubleAA Admit it, people who say "the indefinite article" instead of "a/an" just like typing more! ;)
@HodofHod ajsflkasdjfl;sdhfjsahf;jkdahfkjshflkashdfkldf
@HodofHod What about those who say both?
(sorry; couldn't stop myself)
@Daniel We've had similar before. Mi Yodeya is not just about the content, it's also about the community. Some before have been good contributors, but not the greatest fit for the community. Usually they adapt, or leave. (Or leave and only pop in once in a while.)
@HodofHod There's also "some"
3:55 PM
@DoubleAA I remember an early 00's chatbot that would respond to that with "Please stop hitting your keyboard" or "Shall I put you in touch with Mavis Beacon?"
Although I guess Hebrew has "some"
@HodofHod You don't need to be able to fit into the community as long as your contributions can fit into our format. Good contributions need to have both good content and fitting (in various ways) format.
@IsaacMoses "Need", no, you're right. But we've had some who could have been great contributors (and even started down that path) who left because of community mismatch.
@HodofHod True.
@IsaacMoses It's my personal opinion/theory that complete community mismatch precludes good contributions.
4:06 PM
Can anyone help me? I'm trying to think of a good word that means "what one learns/studies" (the particular bit of Torah that one studies). One word for it is "study" ("my study today is daf...") but that has more common meanings so will be confusing.
@msh210 study material?
educational focus? meh..
@msh210 "The text I'm focusing on / studying"
@DoubleAA @IsaacMoses yes, but I was hoping for a single word, since I'm using to translate a single (Aramaic) noun
@msh210 What word in Aramaic?
:9245132 That's a general course of study, not a particular piece of Torah.
@IsaacMoses "גירסא". In this passage:
> ואמר ר' יצחק אם יאמר לך אדם יגעתי ולא מצאתי אל תאמן לא יגעתי ומצאתי אל תאמן יגעתי ומצאתי תאמן הני מילי בדברי תורה אבל במשא ומתן סייעתא הוא מן שמיא ולדברי תורה לא אמרן אלא לחדודי אבל לאוקמי גירסא סייעתא מן שמיא היא
4:12 PM
@msh210 Can you think of a context outside Torah study in which this concept would be used frequently enough to get its own noun?
@IsaacMoses The concept of "what one is studying" is used in education contexts generally. I can't think of a noun for it, though.
@DoubleAA That's a different connotation I think. And is for a class.
@msh210 "reading" "subject" "concentration" Or, we could go Germanic and coin ourselves up a hyphenation: "focus-text"
4:17 PM
"What's your current ___?" "Several papers on the airspeed velocity of unladen swallows."
@IsaacMoses hm, ok, thanks
Not happy with any of the above ideas (no offense), not that I have any better ones.
@msh210 African or European?
@msh210 I think "subject" or "topic" works there, although admittedly not all the way precisely to mean a piece of text
@msh210 "Focus" works well, in that context, though perhaps not in the gemara passage you quoted.
@IsaacMoses Right, I meant the blank as "readable material being studied" not "topic being studied".
@IsaacMoses I'd use "reading" -- it seems best -- except that it has other meanings also, which will confuse.
"object of study"?
My translation without the troublesome word:
> And they say nothing about Torah except about sharpening: but to establish ___ is help from Heaven.
Maybe I should just use Soncino. :-)
4:23 PM
@msh210 I'd say "And they only apply this to Torah regarding sharpening"
Soncino uses "remembering what one has learnt".
@IsaacMoses I used "say" on purpose: the context is:
> These words speak of Torah: but business is help from Heaven. And they say nothing about Torah except about sharpening
But the double negative is probably a poor choice, yeah.
> And [even] about Torah, they speak only of sharpening
@msh210 Oh, I made the wrong assumption about the antecedent of "they."
@IsaacMoses Maybe I did. (I mean, maybe I'm translating it wrong.)
@msh210 What does Soncino say?
> This is true in respect of words of Torah, but in respect of business, all depends on the assistance of heaven. And even for words of Torah this is true only of penetrating to the meaning, but for remembering what one has learnt, all depends on the assistance of heaven.
4:31 PM
@msh210 Looks good to me :)
@IsaacMoses :-)
I'm going with "study material".
4:49 PM
@MonicaCellio I disagree. I don't think closure was warranted, either. I actually think @IsaacMoses' example of "treif" wine is a good one. That word is used colloquially, and nearly universally, to mean non-kosher; it is very similar to the usage of "The Spanish Inquisition".
Re: @Daniel's point that someone might have pointed out the technical incorrectness one day, I think that's what this answerer did, and I think that, had there been 4-5 answers from different Hashkafic approaches already in place, a year or longer before this answer had been posted, we would have all had the same reaction to the answer that we did, with the only difference I can think of being that there might have been a mini-edit war or at least a debate about rewording the question.
(I'm not sure it would have been reworded in that case, to be quite honest.)
Thanks for your help, folks. (Choosing a word.)
@DoubleAA I'm not sure what this is referring to.
5:05 PM
@DoubleAA @HodofHod @MonicaCellio @ShmuelBrin @msh210 thanks for all the kind words. The baby y'all wished me mazel tov for is now 9 months old, and my other "baby" - the daily shiur I give - is also just as old; the two of them keep me busy enough that, regretfully, I can't come here very often anymore.
@HodofHod: the "unread notifications" maxes out at 99. I just read the last few ones, though.
@MonicaCellio No, you did not act prematurely. I did.
@Alex I'll be very glad to see you when you can come. There have been quite a few times when I read a question and thought "this is something R'Alex would have a complete, well-sourced, and articulate answer to".
@Alex Welcome back! Good to have you!
I shoulda kept a list of such questions, to present to you now. :-P
@msh210 In the future, consider just marking them with a code like Aik"u, so we can find them all in one search.
5:10 PM
@Alex You can see the full list in your profile here: judaism.stackexchange.com/users/37/alex?tab=responses
@IsaacMoses I'd say two of the most important aspects of the MY format, courtesy and patience, cannot be taught.
@SethJ Well, not to adults
@SethJ I gather you don't have any kids.
@IsaacMoses Jinx.
@Alex Is your shiur (daf yomi shiur IIRC) recorded and put online?
@msh210 Funny you should say that. As a matter of courtesy-chinuch, we've outlawed that exclamation in our home. (It's a lot more annoying out loud and with expected consequences than in text and without.)
5:15 PM
@msh210 Well, I generally try to keep personal information offline, but I think I've historically divulged the information that may confirm or contradict that assumption. I'll allow my good friend @IsaacMoses to privately inform you one way or the other if he chooses to do so (ie., finds it relevant).
@IsaacMoses There are no expected consequences in our home; we allow it.
(Because I do not know how to contact you privately.)
@SethJ No need.
But I did mean that in reference to adults, yes.
@SethJ The server is gmail.com and the mailbox is msh210. But there's certainly no need to contact me about whether you have kids.
5:16 PM
@SethJ You can comment on whether you're familiar with the concept of chinuch banim without confirming or denying anything about your personal circumstances :)
@msh210 So, the jinx-ee isn't expected to be silent until some unlocking event? Maybe all we really need is to outlaw that aspect.
I'm not sure how to read the chat above. Have we -- those who have been in chat -- decided that the top-voted 404 idea (something based on yaga'ti v'lo matzasi) is the way to go (because it's top-voted)?
@msh210 It may one day prove relevant to discuss these issues. This morning on my way to work, I was thinking of ways to implement this, possibly involving some medium-large scale Shabbath gathering.
@IsaacMoses Right. When I was in elementary school, we did have such a rule; and in my home now the rule is known but completely unenforced.
@msh210 Can't speak for the room, but I, for one, support that statement.
@IsaacMoses You mean you support that that's what the discussion above has decided?
5:19 PM
@msh210 No; I support selecting that idea, in part because it's top-voted.
@SethJ True. I imagine many users will be loath to divulge such information publicly.
@SethJ Shabbaton - Mi Yodeya?
@IsaacMoses I like, I like.
@msh210 I'm still catching up on comments, but would "text" satisfy you?
@SethJ Yes! Thank you!
@DoubleAA I am so glad that tag exists!
@msh210 You're welcome. Glad I could help. :)
5:25 PM
@IsaacMoses That sounds awesome! Too bad I don't live near where probably the majority of users of this site do :(
@Daniel Me neither
@msh210 subject (broad)? topic (narrower)?
@Daniel Ditto. Any meetup should be in New York, New Jersey, or Israel, I'm guessing.
To think, it was right under your nose!
1 hour ago, by Isaac Moses
@msh210 I think "subject" or "topic" works there, although admittedly not all the way precisely to mean a piece of text
@Daniel ... but hey, if you ever come down to St. Louis, look me up!
5:26 PM
@MonicaCellio No: keep reading the chat. :-)
@SethJ :-)
@IsaacMoses We could have three shabbatons: midwest, east coast, and Israel. Then, the motzei shabbos activity is posting all of the questions that were discussed and having everybody from the other shabbatons try to answer
@Daniel Not a bad idea. There could also be some sort of A/V linkup
@Daniel ... or N Shabbatons, where N is determined by the number of locales in which there's someone willing to host and others willing to show up
chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9246255#9246255 // Disregard, figured it out. (@DoubleAA)
@SethJ oh! to be honest I disregarded it as soon as I read the next post :)
@Daniel I wonder how many users are from southern California.
5:32 PM
@msh210 haha If you're there, then probably 1
@Daniel No, I'm in St. Louis.
@msh210 I'm surprised that I haven't run into anybody else from Chicago
@Daniel Southern California has a huge number of affiliated Jews.
@msh210 Oh yes, in LA there is. I always forget about LA somehow
I think that as a computer programmer, I think of southern california as being San Francisco
@SethJ yeah, should have finished back-reading before replying...
5:35 PM
@IsaacMoses True dat. And very unfortunate, too. :(
SF is south, but LA is south-er. :-)
@msh210 Yeah, I know it's far. I just don't really ever think of Los Angeles
@Daniel Fair enough. :-)
@msh210 Really, do you and @IsaacMoses see much of each other?
@Daniel Wow, how far north are you thinking when you think of non-southern Cali?
@SethJ Unfortunately, no. It's a huge frum community, as you might imagine.
5:39 PM
@msh210, You can divulge whatever you want about our proximity and acquaintance, within reason.
@IsaacMoses Ah, okay, then.
@SethJ Who would go there? :)
@SethJ More seriously, then: Unfortunately, no. We live in different cities within St. Louis county.
Those discussing meet-ups: while large scale meet-ups may be hard to arrange, those who are interested in such things should consider posting their location with an open invite to ping them if one is in their area.
Just a thought.
That way, at least some small meet-ups may occur
Ping me in St. Louis
5:44 PM
And me in Chicago
@IsaacMoses ping me at the fair... ♫♪♫♪
One time, a user I had always wanted to meet was in my shul on a weeknight when I wasn't there, and he assumed I lived on the other side of town, which he wouldn't have time to get to, so he didn't bother to contect me until after he'd left town.
Should we have a meta post?
@IsaacMoses No one is stopping you. perhaps an answer to the existing one is better
@Daniel If there's only one interested person there and two here, perhaps we should meet at the weighted average, Springfield.
@IsaacMoses Sure.
@msh210 Assuming Daniel is working with public transport (or at least mass transport) that might not be a desirable compromise
5:51 PM
A: Will there ever be a Meet-up?

Isaac MosesThe following users are interested in getting pinged by other Yodeyans who happen to be visiting their locales. Isaac Moses - St. Louis

@DoubleAA True. Same for either St. Louisan, if he uses transit.
A: Statistics Jokes

Reinout RoelsA statistician confidently tried to cross a river that was 1 meter deep on average. He drowned.

@msh210 True, but Daniel claims to be a student whereas neither of the St. Louisans do AFAICT, so he is more likely to be using that sort of transportation
@DoubleAA Ah, I see.
A: Statistics Jokes

J. M.A mathematician, a physicist and a statistician went hunting for deer. When they chanced upon one buck lounging about, the mathematician fired first, missing the buck's nose by a few inches. The physicist then tried his hand, and missed the tail by a wee bit. The statistician started jumping up a...

5:54 PM
@DoubleAA @msh210, I actually do have a car available for use. I work full time 40 minutes away during the summers and every so often during an academic quarter
@DoubleAA Averages, I understand. Most real math concepts, I do not.
... and I mean "real" the way normal people do.
@IsaacMoses Very well then. @msh210 see above
@IsaacMoses Well then here's another non-real-math stats-y joke:
Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'.
@msh210 ooh xkcd. It never gets old
6:01 PM
@msh210 :)
@DoubleAA heheh some of those are very funny! (I'm just going down the list in order of votes, haven't gotten far yet)
> I went to visit him while he was lying ill at the hospital. I had come in taxi cab number 14 and remarked that it was a rather dull number. "No" he replied, "it is a very interesting number. It's the smallest number expressible as the product of 7 and 2 in two different ways."
I have a friend who often tells people that their mamas are so fat that they don't fit in R^4
@msh210 I get that one! But there's more history than math in that one.
which is basically the same as one of the jokes in there
@msh210 He forgot the other reasons
Q: Arba'a Asar - mi yodeya?

Isaac MosesWho knows fourteen? Please cite/link your sources, if possible. After about one business day, I will: Upvote all interesting answers. Accept the best answer. Go on to the next number.

6:06 PM
@IsaacMoses @DoubleAA True.
6:21 PM
^ What does that remind me of, from the Jewish world? Some saying of some rabbi I think....
Here, lemme quote it instead of just linking:
> A young mathematician comes to present to a famous mathematician his conjecture and ideas. "You are absolutely wrong," the famous mathematician dismissed the young one. Next enters another young mathematician and presents precisely the opposite conjecture. "You are absolutely wrong" replies the famous mathematician. The famous mathematician's wife interferes. "How could you tell both of them that they are wrong," she sais. "They have made completely opposite claims, one of them must be right!"
> "You are also wrong," replied the famous mathematician.
> A Jewish congregation was arguing over whether one should stand or sit during the Shema Yisroel. Half of the congregation said one should sit, the other half insisted one should stand. Every time the Shema was recited they shouted at each other, “Sit down!” and “Stand up!” The fighting became so bad that the congregation was split in two, each half contending that they knew the tradition in that synagogue.
> Finally, the rabbi decided to visit a one hundred year old member of the synagogue who was living in a nursing home. He took a delegation from each of the arguing sides with him to see the oldest member of the “shul”. “Now, tell us,” said the rabbi, “what is our tradition?” “Should we stand during the Shema?” “No,” said the old man. “That is not our tradition.” “Well, then,” said the rabbi, “ should we sit during the Shema?” “No,” the old man, “that is not our tradition.”
> “But we need to know what to do,” said the rabbi, “because our congregation members are fighting among each other.” “That,” said the oldest member of the congregation, “that is our tradition.”
@IsaacMoses No, it was something else. Something about how two parties are right but the one who intervenes (or something) is wrong. Don't remember the context though.
@msh210 Oh, man. Thought I'd nailed it.
@shulem, people can reverse their votes. New visitors can see the revised answer and ignore earlier downvotes. I don't know why you have such a negative view of the users of the site who are trying so hard to welcome you and help you contribute meaningfully. — Seth J 1 min ago
I'm somehow getting exhausted from all of this.
@doubleAA, @IsaacMoses, @MonicaCellio, and yes, @shulem, care to opine on my most recent edit?
6:36 PM
ooh! Speaking of the Inquisition and conversos, this is very cool! israelunseen.com/…
@SethJ Me too
@SethJ It certainly improves the clarity, which I appreciate, but the reasoning in the answer is still flawed on its face.
@CharlesKoppelman The backstory has been debunked. It's still cool, though. popchassid.com/…
@CharlesKoppelman ... and you're in excellent company, in that @Jin was the first to mention it in this room! :)
@IsaacMoses Only that one sentence about "lezman" vs. "lizman" seems weird to me. Did I overlook something?
6:39 PM
@SethJ Yes; that the awkwardness of Hebrew phrases translated piece by piece into English is irrelevant to evaluating their correctness in Hebrew
Apr 17 at 15:59, by Jin
just wanted to share this with you guys. found it via a reddit thread I think it's amazing.
@IsaacMoses I thought that stemmed from the lizman/lezman stuff.
@IsaacMoses Maybe I missed the forest for the trees. Heading back for a new read.
Who's the PM"G?
@Daniel Pri Megadim?
@Daniel peri megadim i suppose
6:41 PM
@SethJ No, it comes from him complaining about the "ha" translated as "the" in English is awkward
@SethJ Honestly, I'm just happy it exists. It's beautiful and ingenious. (I was a little surprised to see an etrog holder as something a converso would need)
(or a seder plate)
@DoubleAA @IsaacMoses ooh, nice. I got no bones with that mistake, them
@Daniel Right, so that was my original assumption, but I don't think that's what he was saying at all.
@Daniel Are you saying that everyone else thinks that he was getting hung up on extra "the"s in English?
@IsaacMoses ^^^
@SethJ I'm not sure what everybody else thinks, but that's what I understand his point to be
@DoubleAA ^^^ you too?
@SethJ That's what the answer says. He's claimed in comments and chat that it's the same Yiddish, Polish, Russian, and Chinese.
6:47 PM
@SethJ, how do you interpret it?
Wow. OK, so try to follow my train of thought here:
1. He can't possibly think there's a difference based on the English translation of the Hebrew word.
2. I don't get what this lizman/lezman distinction is.
3. He seems to be mistranslating the word and assigning too much significance to the spelling in the question.
4. He must think the difference is conveying different vowels in Hebrew (easy enough to correct). But, oh look, everyone's arguing with him.
5. They must also be bothered by his lizman/lezman focus.
I got to point 5 because I'd already mentally ruled out the possibility in point 1.
So what I think is going on is a mistranslation (point 3).
Still a bad answer (of bad first half of an answer) because of the mistranslation.
I think he inserts a definite article in lizman and therefore assumes that there is an "extra", thus redundant, definite article in lazman.
@SethJ I assumed that lezman/lizman was a side point and based on assumption of a distinction that doesn't exist.
Which is factually incorrect.
@SethJ "Hazeh" contains a definite article.
@SethJ, what do you mean by mistranslation?
6:57 PM
@IsaacMoses Right, I think that's fair. But I thought you were arguing about that.
@SethJ OK. Nope. I was ignoring that in favor of dismissing the central argument.
@IsaacMoses Yep, that's true. The grammatical point that needs to be weighed is whether the first word needs to match up (having a definite article itself) or can rely on the article in the second word. Which is actually a confusing point to a lot of people.
@SethJ B"H the Torah has plenty of familiar examples

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