@HodofHod you had asked why does Islam reject torah as corrupt , then answer is No. Early scholars of Islam never claimed the text of torah to be corrupt, what was claimed by them was that Rabbis added new interpretation and framed laws in contradiction of torah. but later scholars claimed both change in text and change in interpretation. The latter view is true for christianoity
I would prefer not assuming torah to be corrupt in text. And the Quran never said so
Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?
– 2:75
So what this verse says that when Quran was heard by them(Jews) then after understanding that what quran said was truth and was agreement with their own torah . So they wanted to make quran disagree with the torah out of ego and jealousy of following their own forfathers. This was done by introducing new interpretations by the rabbis @HodofHod
Bukhari (Vol.8. Hadith No. 809): “Narrated Ibn Umar (RA): A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah’s Apostle (S) on a charge of committing illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them: ‘What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?’
They replied: ‘Our priests have innovated the blackening of faces with charcoal and Tajbiya’ (being mounted on a donkey, with their faces in opposite directions, then mortified in public). Abdullah bin Salaam said: ‘0 Allah’s Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah.’
The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajm (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salaam said to the Jew: ‘Lift up your hand.’ The Divine Verse of the Rajm was under his hand. So Allah’s Apostle (S) ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned.”
You see the Jew spoke lies and wanted to escape the punishment of the torah and the Prophet muhammad pbuh exposed his hypocrisy . The judgement of Quran and Torah is same regarding adultery
So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good. - 5:13 These verses seem allude to a distortion of sense/interpretation, over a textual change.
It is commonly believed among Muslims that Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son Ishmael, even though Isaac is clearly named thus in the Old Testament.
The Qur'an confirms the story of the sacrifice, but does not name the son involved.
Is there any Islamic basis for the belief that it was in f...
@Ali Maybe it's a really old Hadith. That doesn't mean it wasn't made up and full of nonsense. We don't believe it to be true. You can't prove anything to us from it.
@DoubleAA The Bible says, ‘take thy only son’ (Gen 22.2) Isaac was never his only son; Ishmael was his only son for 14 years. This one argument is irrefutable. The meaningfulness of the sacrifice was that it WAS his only son who had been given after hears of Abraham(pbuh) praying for a son, hence the name of Ishmael means: ‘The Lord hears’ (ie: hears prayers)
@DhoweedYaAgov where's your proof that the authentic Ahadith contradict each other? I understand if it contradicts judaism, but they don't contradict each other, unless they are inauthentic, or at different time periods
He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus – to establish the religion and not be divided therein.
Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were witnesses thereto.
@DhoweedYaAgov as for that one, you are going to need to cite it, and it's authenticity, but no I was talking the one saying not to prostrate like a dog, there are other Ahadith that tell us to go down hands first than knees, and not to come down like a camel, but non of these are talking about Jews
[Abu Daawood] There is no difference in this ruling on whether the prayers are performed in a mosque, a house, or outside, or in the desert, for the general meaning of the Hadeeth. Some Ahadeeth even prove that performing prayers in mosques with shoes on is permitted as reported by Imaam Ahmad and Abu Daawood
i dont know who these guys are but if they are not authentic is still doesnt mean anything because somewhere in time and space there were people who believed it to be authentic, or it wouldnt have been written down
@DoubleAA The Bible says, ‘take thy only son’ (Gen 22.2) Isaac was never his only son; Ishmael was his only son for 14 years. This one argument is irrefutable. The meaningfulness of the sacrifice was that it WAS his only son who had been given after hears of Abraham(pbuh) praying for a son, hence the name of Ishmael means: ‘The Lord hears’ (ie: hears prayers)
Abu Sa'eed Al-Khudri may Allaah be pleased with him narrated: "While the Prophet,was leading the Companions may Allaah be pleased with them in prayer, he took off his shoes and the people behind him did likewise. When he, finished the prayer, he asked them: “Why did you take off your shoes?” They replied: “We saw you taking off yours.” He said: “Gabriel may Allaah exalt his mention came to me and informed me that there was some impurity on them.”
during war most likely his shoes were impure so he took them off
Ibn 'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to Madinah and saw the Jews fasting on the day of 'Ashura'. He said, 'What is this?' They said, 'This is a righteous day, it is the day when Allah saved the Children of Israel from their enemies, so Musa fasted on this day.' He said, 'We have more right to Musa than you,' so he fasted on that day and commanded [the Muslims] to fast on that day."
[Reported by al-Bukhari, 1865] "This is a righteous day" – in a report narrated by Muslim, [the Jews said:] "This is a great day, on which Allah saved Musa and his people, and drowned Pharaoh and his people." "Musa fasted on this day" – a report narrated by Muslim adds: " … in thanksgiving to Allah, so we fast on this day."
According to a report narrated by al-Bukhari: " … so we fast on this day to venerate it." A version narrated by Imam Ahmad adds: "This is the day on which the Ark settled on Mount Judi, so Nuh fasted this day in thanksgiving," and "commanded [the Muslims] to fast on that day" – according to another report also narrated by al-Bukhari: "He said to his Companions: 'You have more right to Musa than they do, so fast on that day.' "
for we fast on the day of asara not because of Mosha(PBUH)
and Mosha(PBUH) did not fast on asara he fasted on Yom Kippur which is also on thr 10th day (asara)
2 fasts mixed up into one story
and what is this none sense that mohammed students have more right to Mosha(PBUH) than all of banei yisroayl?
Fasting on 'Ashura' was a gradual step in the process of introducing fasting as a prescribed obligation in Islam. Fasting appeared in three forms. When the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to Madinah, he told the Muslims to fast on three days of every month and on the day of 'Ashura', then Allah made fasting obligatory when He said (interpretation of the meaning): "
… observing the fasting is prescribed for you … " [Al-Qur'an 2:183] [Ahkam al-Qur'an by al-Jassas, part 1]
if anyone makes a claim about someone else without backing up that claim, it is not a claim but a false statement until that claim is verified by that certain sombody
therefore if this hadeeth makes a claim about jews you come to the jews to verify if its true
this is not true therefore this hadeeth and all other hadeeths like it are false
@DhoweedYaAgov what Islam teaches is a more simple and practical forms of worship, what the Jews did was make it hard for themselves, do you like it hard? also I observed that your beliefs are different from others here on Judaism.SE, and I know there are different sects, so how do you know the Jews back in Muhammads time were following what you believe?
the story of asara and fasting on yom kippur is on books not in interpretation
also if all the hadeeths and stories in the quran which pertain to jews, only pertain to jews in the time and place of mohammed, then obviously muslims after mohammed did a bad job in figuring that out because you can observe history for yourself to see that muslims took it as all jews
also regarding simplistic worship, that is the point of christianity and islam
to make things simple for the dumb people and the uneducated people when the religions first started
only the jews were educated in those times and the goyim around us were envious
romans and greeks couldnt read or wright, therefore they created plays to tell stories
jews were able to read and wright, and were persecuted for being "different" than the rest of society, aka dumb
now, since you said that, don't you think it is now more understandable that God sent Muhammad as mercy for the whole world? since Jews weren't uneducated
If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one quarter of one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly, the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk.
His contributions to the world’s list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine and abstruse learning are also very out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world in all ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself and be excused for it.
The Egyptians, the Babylonians and the Persians rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greeks and Romans followed and made a vast noise, and they were gone; other people have sprung up and held their torch high for a time but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, and have vanished.
The Jew saw them all, survived them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmaties, of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert but aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jews; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?
Upon reading the recent CNN article, That Actually Isn't In The Bible, one not-really-in-the-Bible misconception they cite is the idea that serpent in the Garden of Eden was the Satan.
The article cites several biblical scholars who correctly say that the Satan is not mentioned in the creation a...
A Noble prize winner scientist maybe too confident about his knowledge but that cant save him if he finds himself in a flood and does not know how to swim. His all learning and knowledge would drown with him lest he holds on to the divine
I dont know about ashura matching up with the calenders of Yom Kippur etc i guess this was discussed in islam chatroom by @HodofHod or @DoubleAA so i dont know about it
perhaps @goldpseudo knows about it
Friday prayers time! I heard some Jews also pray on friday?
@Ali Judaism is not about purely academic study; Torah must be studied amidst reverence of the Almighty, and it is a primary means of cleaving to Him. In fact, the Talmud teaches that one's knowledge will endure only if it is surpassed by his reverence for the Almighty.
@DhoweedYaAgov Muslims pray every day 5 times too but friday is a special worship day like sabbat and one of my old accquaintance in Israel told me that both friday and saturday are special days in Judaism , he was not religious so he did not give reasons for the significance but he did special worship on friday and saturday
So i was curious to know significance of friday worship in Judaism
@AviD. I'd say that performing any form of elective surgery or body modifications on an infant is just morally wrong. I'm also very uncomfortable with inducting babies into a religion (I'm not a fan of infant baptism, for example). Circumcision combines two ethically dodgy practices in one easy bundle. I'm not impressed. — TRiGJul 19 '12 at 17:43
@Ali There is none, technically. In Judaism the day starts after the previous day ends (which is at sundown). Hence, Friday night is not actually Friday night, but the beginning of Shabbath. As such, one familiar with the Western way of deeming the end of a day to be at 11:59pm would observe that on "Friday night" Jews get dressed up, attend synagogue, recite special prayers, and have a fancy meal with wine and songs. But this is because it is no longer Friday, but Shabbath.
@Ali The only exception might be some Hasidic customs to "prepare for the Sabbath", but that's why I said "technically". Here and there people might do things differently. I eat with my right hand and switch hands to cut meat (hold my fork with my left and my knife with my right). But there is nothing wrong with cutting with my left hand. That has nothing to do with religion, by the way, but it is meant to segue into a religious point:
If I decide to make my Shabbath prep more spiritual and less mundane, that is my right, but I cannot fault anyone else for not doing the same thing.
room topic changed to Discussion about Islam's view of Judaism and assorted extended discussions: Note that this room is not being heavily monitored by the Mi Yodeya moderators. (no tags)
@ali muslim special friday prayers are different than jewish prayers held on the day of friday. Our special prayers start on friday night but according to jewish law the day starts at sun set therefore it is not friday it is already Shabboth.
It is commonly believed among Muslims that Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son Ishmael, even though Isaac is clearly named thus in the Old Testament.
The Qur'an confirms the story of the sacrifice, but does not name the son involved.
Is there any Islamic basis for the belief that it was in f...
Since Jews don't believe in hell for unbelievers, what will happen to Satan? Will he be punished for eternity?
