Discussion with yoel, DhoweedYaAgov, Shmuel Brin and Double AA

12:20 AM

yeah... here he says we have to acknowledge that Torah is higher than human reason, right?

yea

i remember seeing he said something opposite somewhere else though

im going to have to look it up

yeah, idk, you probably know that in breslev we don't study ibn ezra

otoh i've heard (forget the source) that he was a gilgul of a tanna so he had the right to argue against gemara

@yoel I thought the Chassidic world in general only studies Rashi and the Metzudos (when they study tanach)

@ShmuelBrin is that right? I know the Lubavitcher Rebbe z'l was also big on Rashi

for sure Rebbe Nachman says Rashi is all you need

@yoel Yes, and Chitas.

@yoel even on Nach?

12:25 AM

@ShmuelBrin I'll have to look it up. Maybe he was only saying on Chumash.

i want to tell you that there is no such thing as gilgul

rambam said it

saadya jaon said it was a christian idea

he didnt believe in it and most likely ibn ezra didnt believe in it either

@DhoweedYaAgov really don't care about any of those opinions, and I have everybody else to stand on

@ShmuelBrin in Sichos HaRan 223 he just says only study Rashi on Mikra, but in Chayei Moharan 410 he says not to study any commentaries by people who follow the philosophers at all

what bout reb albo?

or reb leon demodena

@yoel The Metzudos (AFAIK) wasn't a philosopher

@ShmuelBrin I'm not really familiar with it

@DhoweedYaAgov I don't know who that is

@DhoweedYaAgov but sure, make a list, and I'll make one too. Whose do you think will be longer?

Not that it's about a majority necessarily

12:31 AM

yea doesn't really matter

majority doesnt mean its correct

majority of ppl bang their hands on the wall

is the correct?

Maybe... do they have a mesorah to do so? :)

yes their parents and grandparents banged their heads on walls too

@yoel haoros.com/Archive/?kovetz=872&Cat=11&haoro=1

ok, and when geniuses fluent in the whole Torah and dedicated in Avodas Hashem examine the practice, do they all say "yes, this is a right practice", whether they are Chasidim or misnagdim, Ashkenazi or Sefardi, whatever?

@ShmuelBrin thanks! R"L I wish I had more time to go through commentaries. I don't have as much time to learn as I would want as it is

majority say its ok

minority say its not

but the majority are using a wrong way of learning torah

and the minority are using the right way

12:36 AM

ಠ_ಠ

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

it's so crazy to me that a person would say the mechaber is learning Torah wrong

or the GR"A

or Rav Elyashiv

or the Ben Ish Chai

why?

are there no other rabbonim who pasken different?

if they were all correct they would all pasken the same

obviously not

@DhoweedYaAgov so when two tannaim argue, is only one of them correct?

yes

2+2=4 not 5

only one is right

12:39 AM

@DhoweedYaAgov wrong. eilu v'eilu divrei Elokim Chaim

thats wrong

@DhoweedYaAgov So why did the Rambam explain Tanayim who the Halacha doesn't follow?

to show how he got to the holocho

@DhoweedYaAgov hebrewbooks.org/…

@DhoweedYaAgov But the halacha doesn't agree with that tanna?

Q: Does Rambam include the Oral Torah in his eighth principle?

@DhoweedYaAgov careful, i'm sure it's not your intention but this is probably kefira

2

When Rambam says that a principle of faith is that the entire Torah that we now have is that which was given to Moshe, does he include both written and oral Torah, or only the written Torah? If the former, to what extent? Since he speaks of the Torah that we now have, it cannot mean the Oral ...

12:42 AM

no one said that torah sha ba alpah is not toroh

...

then you can't argue on eilu v'eilu

both are true

period

its no

t

killing bugs on shabboth is permissible

that spawn from your head spontaneously

according to me its not

i dont have to follow that holochoh

even though its eilu

mesora.org/shivimpanim.html

brb rebooting into windows

1:03 AM

back

did you read that link?

1:22 AM

i didnt see what you wrote

:/

2:21 AM

@yoel Elu v'elu doesn't mean they're both true. It means their both the word of God.

@yoel Do you think Neptune exists?

Is it true that Gilgulim are antithetical to Judaism? Elu v'elu right?

:/

is it me or your picture is a swastika

lol

@yoel Do you learn the commentary of R Moshe Butril to Sefer Yetzira?

@DhoweedYaAgov I never though of that. It was randomly generated and assigned to me.

a windows logo in a swasitka

its a conspiracy i tell you let me put on my tin foil hat

HodofHod

CAN'T UNSEE!!!!

2

@HodofHod ???

Oh my gravatar?

lol. If I rotate it will that help you?

HodofHod

2:26 AM

@DoubleAA Eh, it doesn't bother me.

@yoel That's an axiological statement not a physical one or a epistemological one. So no need to hold of the non-Jews there.

am i really the only one that noticed that in how many years you were on this site?

@yoel So you don't believe the Hacham Ovadia is a Jew, or the Rambam is a Jew?

is yoel in here because i don't see what he is saying

@DhoweedYaAgov You can't really explain away all the Raavad's questions with bad girsaot.

@DhoweedYaAgov He is not currently. He will likely return later and see all the pings to him.

2:29 AM

oh

the raavad said rambam was butchering the hebrew language

when it was really bad copies on his hand

in his hands*

@yoel Chazal are the final word because that's the way the system goes. It has little to do with if what they said is what Moshe said or not. (I'm not saying it isn't; just that it doesn't matter.)

@DhoweedYaAgov And the Rambam was sometimes using Arabic-isms. See Yesodhei HaToroh 1:1

yea

my rov argued on me that rambam never used aramaic in the mishne toroh

is that true?

i mean in one case it could be that he used aramaic

@DhoweedYaAgov Why does it matter?

because in one instance there was a word which according to the magblili mishne toroh it is supposed to be aramaic

but my rov said no its hebrew

the word is cl

chof lamad

@DhoweedYaAgov כל? That's a Hebrew word. It shows up in Tanakh numerous times.

2:35 AM

yea but it is also an aramaic word

to measure

@DhoweedYaAgov Nah Hebrew. See Yeshaya 40

mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1040.htm#12

Yeshaya 40 12

oh your right

@yoel Maybe you should read the answer again, but that principle includes very specific parts of the Oral Torah. I don't know if an aggadata about a bas kol is included.

it brings the same posuk you brought down lol

@DhoweedYaAgov It's the only example of it in Tanakh I think

2:39 AM

so i think my argument was wrong

just the poitn was right

the meaning of the word was different

in that context

@yoel Again I really think you underestimate that daat yachid-ness of the Rambam.

Ok @yoel I would enjoy responses to all my points above, but if you'll only answer one it's got to be: Do you think Neptune the planet exists?

@DhoweedYaAgov Layla Ṭov

liloh tov

Seth J

4:17 AM

@double aa I cannot believe you don't remember when I made the same observation about your gravatar as @dhoweedyaagov.