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5:00 PM
-1
Q: Should we refresh our standard loopholes?

Wheat WizardWe have a list of standard loopholes which are forbidden by default. This is pretty good, it does good for the site. But it's also 8 years old, and it is showing its age. We occasionally inaugurate new loopholes with 5-20 votes, while answers posted very early on have score in the triple digits ...

 
as for specific timing, idk, but i thought id fill you in on what i did know :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing It has arrived.
 
mycelia is something related to mushrooms
 
Mycelium is the material formed by mushroom "roots" IIRC
The mushroom itself is only a fruiting body
 
yeah i know that
read it from A series of unfortunate events, book 11
The Grim Grotto
 
5:06 PM
Oh cool lol
I read that series a while back
 
@Feeds I may turn these into an actual answer, but for now, just my thoughts: I agree that some of the loopholes are definitely out of date, and could do with refreshing. I worry that some of the more niche, but important, ones may be overlooked during a refresh. I think 2 weeks is far too short, and would like to see a month minimum, as I anticipate a decent amount of discussion on the refreshed loopholes. Overall, while I'm not opposed to it, I'm ambivalent as to whether it's necessary.
@py3programmer Probably
 
which one was your favorite @RadvylfPrograms
 
Probably #12
 
the penultimate peril?
 
Personally, I liked the school one best for the books, but prefer the netflix show over the books as a whole
 
5:08 PM
mine was book # 8
i've only watched one episode
 
Election starts in 2 hours
 
in netflix
11:00
which is a bad time
 
@RadvylfPrograms Looks like it's just gonna be me vs lyxal
 
im voting for @cairdcoinheringaahing
 
I appreciate that, thanks :P
 
5:10 PM
Can I vote for both?
Equally
 
I don't think so
 
can you vote for both biden and trump?
 
@mousetail Yes
 
Yes, you are encouraged to actually vote for both, but as it's likely to be 2 candidates, you do have to rank one of us over the other
 
@mousetail No
 
5:11 PM
You can vote for both equally, but only by not voting
 
Maybe if one candidate nominates himself twice then Ill rank 1 2 1 and it will be effectively equal
 
Riddle me this: What exactly is the "GNU" in "GNU/Linux"?
 
got no underwear
 
It stands for "GNU's Not Unix"
 
5:11 PM
Gross noodles underwater
 
No, what does it refer to?
 
linux is the kernel and gnu is... what?
 
GNU simply is
 
5:12 PM
> GUN
 
@py3programmer IMO the Medusoid Mycelium is the most terrifying thing in the entire series.
 
GUN/Linux: The distro for southerners
 
@Ginger I can tell you what it's not :P
 
linux is the kernel and gnu is the gnu
 
\:
 
5:12 PM
@hyper-neutrino When do you see this message? Looking at it myself it does seem like I can nominate myself for moderator.
 
It seems nobody knows
 
I thought Savannah was the kernel
 
@WheatWizard Have you been suspended in the past year?
 
@DLosc what about count olaf
 
Linux is just the temporary solution
 
5:13 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing No I haven't. But I probably shouldn't be allowed to nominate myself anyway.
 
You've got 2 hours.
 
@WheatWizard How else will you become moderator²?
 
@py3programmer A small-time crook who's not as clever as he thinks he is. :P
@py3programmer I liked The Slippery Slope the best.
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing If you leave a moderator position you can become moderator again without a vote.
 
5:15 PM
TSS is where Violet meets the thought-to-be-dead guy Quigley right?
 
Can we move the off topic discussion? There's been a lot of it today.
 
so nobody knows what GNU is? does this mean I can just call it "Linux"?
 
you may @WheatWizard
 
@WheatWizard MSE post. TL;DR: pro-tem mods need to run for mod once a site graduates, so there's no system in place to prevent a moderator running in an election
 
Interesting.
I wonder if it has ever been done.
 
5:17 PM
we can be the first
 
Incoming spam on new posts
@WheatWizard FWIW, SE can remove the nomination of any user at any point I believe, so would probably just ask the mod what they're doing, then remove it if they didn't
 
gtg do homework bye
 
@Ginger GNU is a organization that builds a ton of stuff like coreutils, gnome, and wanted to make it's own entire operating system, called Savannah. It isn't finished yet but a lot of the "side projects" are part of linux now.
 
so the correct syntax should be "Linux + GNU"
 
@Feeds 2 weeks is waaaay too short
 
5:21 PM
Usually it's called GNU/Linux but both work
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing what is it with these spammers?
why code golf?
 
Linux is just a kernel, pretty much every layer in between came originally from GNU
 
We like short code, clearly we all trade bitcoin
(also, SO and larger sites get way more spam than we do :P)
 
but you never see them spamming in the chatrooms
 
I managed to get Marshal on MSE just by hanging out on /new and flagging all the incoming spam. Took me about 3 months
 
5:23 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Very true, when hanging out in smoke detector there is a spam post like every 5 minutes
 
@Ginger 20 rep to chat
 
oh right
 
It's a small, but powerful, barrier
 
do we ever get spam here? I've been here pretty consistently for about 8 months and haven't seen any
 
> Real Fake
That's how you know it's good
 
5:24 PM
@Ginger I don't remember seeing any true spam here in 6 years. We occasionally get people being "spam-y", but nothing to the extent of main
 
wow
 
Hmmm maybe I should write a spam bot
 
don't joke about that! d:
 
that wasn't a joke ofc
 
All it would post would be rick rolls
 
5:25 PM
Did you mean: lyxal
 
using a custom GPT-3 model trained to maximize clicks
 
I really don't think 2 weeks is to short, most meta posts reach consensus far faster than that. But I always feel like CGCC users suggest ridiculously long time frames for waiting for things. Ultimately it doesn't matter at all because none of this is really time pressing at all and if we want to way a month or a year or whatever it certainly doesn't matter to me.
 
And it's user name would be "Rick" or something to make it really obvious
 
we like to be completely absolutely sure
@cairdcoinheringaahing Don't see any
 
rick is too obvious
 
5:27 PM
I'd bet people would still fall for it a few times
 
perhaps user45563
 
@Ginger It's already been nuked, the question is if the feed will still post it now it's deleted
 
kachow
 
Or "Give up"
 
@RadvylfPrograms Have you fixed NP/NSP yet?
 
5:28 PM
"Let down"
"Turn around"
"leave"
 
thats also obvious
 
If you do just one of those I think people would only spot it in hindsight
 
@py3programmer Book discussion is on-topic at The Reading Room, so we can take the Lemony Snicket conversation over there.
 
okay then
 
the point is that it's obvious, but hopefully only in hindsight
 
5:29 PM
perhaps I should reprogram GingerBot to be a replacement NP/NSP
 
Do it
NP except 1/20 posts should be a rickroll instead of a link to the actual post
 
porblem: I need mod approval to run bots in TNB
 
Run for mod
there is still time
 
fair point
 
do you really think that people would willingly vote for me?
 
5:32 PM
Not willingly
 
i could program a bot, but i'll need help hooking it up
or maybe not
 
I'll see if I can get GB to work like NP
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing concur with the at least month extension. As for necessity: It'd be nice, fresh polish from a more experienced community, and could make the loopholes more easily navigable / coherent / intuitive. one single loophole could stand in the place of probably several individual realizations which essentially should have amounted to the same thing.
(if that makes sense)
 
how did this happen overnight
sus
 
uh
 
5:35 PM
note: i havent read the loopholes in a while, my intuition for how they look might be different from how they actually are
 
wow
 
@Steffan looks like the badge requirement update came through ?
see pinned, could be related to that? :P
 
@thejonymyster That's just for Generalist, I think
 
Shouldn't give you rep either
 
oh hm
 
5:40 PM
This loophole no longer applies right: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5800/91213
 
@Steffan oh wow
 
@mousetail correct, woah
 
Not sure if this one still applies, creating languages is allowed but the general "using prior knowledge to avoid other rules" might still be relavent: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5772/91213
 
is the + unary operator utterly pointless (in c langs)
 
whats it do
also by c langs do you mean specifically languages with C in the name (C++ C# etc) or like, general C-like langs (would include js etc)
 
5:52 PM
the C family (C(++/#/--), Java, Kotlin, etc)
so yea ur second option
 
+ is useful in JS to convert string to number
 
but thats in a weakly typed lang
 
Yea
I guess it can be used as a type of assert, +n will crash if n is not numeric, in C# or maybe C++ templates
 
I don't understand what it is with all these people posting low-quality questions that are all vaguely similar
 
at least leave a comment
 
5:55 PM
oh right, sorry
 
Is there a previous code bowling fizz buzz?
 
@Ginger we need a code bowling meta explaining all the consistent issues with people posting them more or less naively
or at least a copypaste for it :P
 
Who are these people though?
 
IMO the only valid code bowling is pristine code bowling
i.e. cannot remove any substring and still work
 
people who think theyre clever but dont realize we look down upon "non observational requirements" / dont always use languages that match the paradigms people expect
 
5:58 PM
they all have Indian-sounding names, they all seem to have been inactive on the site for months before posting questions, they all have sub-200 rep
most of them only have 101 rep (ie the "trusted" bonus)
@mousetail you misspelled "relevant"
 
i cont spel
 
lol
amused by this user's bio: "exposure to the latest technologies" are the latest technologies violently radioactive or something?
2
 
theyve seen the latest technologies
no guarantee theyve used them
actually i like that
ive been exposed to the most clever and efficient algorithms
 
@Ginger That name doesn't really sound indian, the shw sound combination is uncommon in indian languages
 
@thejonymyster relevant xkcd
frickin embeds
 
6:03 PM
@mousetail plus isnt it just the name of a food :P
 
Yea Turkish food
It's really good
I feel compelled to upvote all their answers now
 
lol
1 more close vote needed
 
dont you wish you could leave an upvote on food
#reddit
 
All the time
The guy who make the pizza I ate yesterday deserves 1.2K karma
 
@Ginger voluntarily removed
 
6:31 PM
@Ginger The only thing that stops a bad guy with a GNU is a good guy with a Linux
 
eeeee 1 hour till election
can we see votes live?
 
That would be bad since it would allow just voting for the most popular candidates
 
true
who yall voting for :P
 
I'm voting for hyper neutrino
 
6:44 PM
koth idea: win a vote, but you cant see who youre voting for, only how many votes there are for each candidate
 
hm
 
i'll just wait till the last few minutes of voting and force a tie
honestly deciding between caird and lyxal is hard
 
caird: mature, experienced, top editor
lyxal: visited every day for 3 years, made vyxal, funny cool guy
 
Wait 3 years really
 
yes
 
6:47 PM
That sounds unhealthy
@lyxal go outside
 
yeah go touch some grass
 
CMC Go outside and touch grass. Fastest wins. Your time starts now
 
done
 
Little Alex Horne?
Is that you?
 
Yes, I'm his alt
 
6:49 PM
...no, I'm ginger
 
I hope TM gets back on youtube soon :(
 
Tall Mouse
 
I love how ginger has no idea what we are talking about
 
no I totally do
 
I think they have licensing issues that mean they can only put full episodes for the series that are more than a certain amount of time ago
 
6:50 PM
Yea I know
 
Okay, I've decided to update my election countdown timer, finally
 
@mousetail when is now
 
they keep saying "soon :tm:" but I'm impatient
@thejonymyster In taskmaster rules it's when you read that line
 
@RadvylfPrograms ah yes countdown,html
 
6:51 PM
@RadvylfPrograms If you posted this in 1 hour it would be funny
 
Yes I have become Luxembourgish
 
Cool, you live close to me then
You should visit
Anyway are you aware the timer is stuck at 0?
 
It is not
 
Ok it's stuck at 0 for me
 
Browser?
 
6:54 PM
FF
 
Any console errors?
 
You know Chrome dies next week right?
No console errors
 
@RadvylfPrograms were using european file extensions now?
aaaa my wifi
 
will you not work
 
6:58 PM
@mousetail Try again
@mousetail In what way
 
@RadvylfPrograms Manifest V4
 
Didn't they just make a v3?
 
might be v3
 
They're still displaying tutorials all over the place on migrating to it
 
@RadvylfPrograms countdown,html
 
7:00 PM
Concensus is it's terrible and if you use any extensions people suggest switching browsers
@RadvylfPrograms No change
 
@mousetail it's v3
 
@mousetail It's an FF issue then. Not my fault if it doesn't understand basic HTML and JS. This is why I use Chrome.
 
and the problem is that a bunch of adblockers get broken by v3 so people are pissed off
 
Firefox actually follows standard
chrome does whatever
 
I am not breaking any standards
 
7:01 PM
[citation needed]
 
Why is chat so active
 
we have things to talk about
basically the issue with v3 is that it removes support for a specific API that is used by adblockers to intercept requests and replaces it with an API that requires the extension to explicitly specify the domains it can modify (and has a max of 150k domains)
 
The issue is that it will break addblock
 
which understandably causes adblock issues
 
7:06 PM
It's so blatant abuse of their position
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

97.100.97.109Show a balanced binary tree code-golf Given an integer \$n > 1\$, output a balanced binary tree with \$n\$ leaf nodes. The tree should be constructed out of (space), \ and / (slashes). Each slash represents a branch. A node is represented by adjacent slashes: /\. There must be a root node at t...

 
mozilla does not intend to migrate FF to v3, probably for this reason (although tbh this whole fiasco does paint them in a pretty good light so maybe it's also a business decision)
 
Other browsers aren't migrating either, like brave and vivaldi even when based on Chrome's renderer
 
basically once the migration finishes adblockers will no longer work on chrome
which conveniently increases ad revenue for google
 
"Rollout" is bad phrasing
 
7:08 PM
We should croudfund to make all advertising FIrefox adds on that day
 
V3 is already working, I just made a v3 extension like a week or two ago
The problem will be when V2 stops being supported which isn't for a year
 
Yea V3 has been working for a while, stoping support for v2 is the issue
 
sorry
 
Also the ironny of calling it "privacy focused" when it's actively harming your privacy
 
youur keyboard seeems to be dupplicating some of yyour keypressees
 
7:11 PM
@mousetail Aw dang, I was just outside, but I don't think I touched any grass. :(
 
@Ginger That's how I type when angry
 
huh
 
when I type fast keypresses jumble up
 
when i type fats thusi happends
 
@pxeger Meanwhile I'm currently watching season 7
 
7:14 PM
when I type fast my ceiling fan spins in both directions and my toaster begins to spray molten lava all over my kitchen
3
 
@mathcat sma
e
 
When your typing speed is so good you accidentally hack IOT devices
 
lets all type slowly, golfing is a sport for the patient
 
FGITW
 
[fasters-code]
 
aight guess ill go dig my own grave
:P
 
bury me under the 18th hole so my skeleton eats the golf balls
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
7:18 PM
in the "code golf" metaphor, what is the ball and what is the club?
the hole/grass/field or whatever is the challenge ofc
and stroke count is byte count
 
the ball is the program and the club is the interpreter/compiler
 
ouch
 
7:34 PM
CMC print the first 100 digits of e
@Ginger it should exist!
 
@RadvylfPrograms This page is way too resource intensive, please consider using DOM or at least something.
 
@graffe Fig, mE
i think i built in 100
maybe 50
 
7:49 PM
truly the essence of language design is having as many digits in our constants as possible
 
6 minutes
 
@RadvylfPrograms found the error
const birthday = new Date('December 17, 1995 03:24:00') // DISCOURAGED: may not work in all runtimes
const birthday2 = new Date('1995-12-17T03:24:00')   // This is ISO8601-compliant and will work reliably
103
Q: new Date() is working in Chrome but not Firefox

pixeldevI am creating a datetime string that looks like this: 2010-07-15 11:54:21 And with the following code I get invalid date in Firefox but works just fine in Chrome var todayDateTime = year + '-' + month + '-' + day + ' ' + hour + ':' + minute + ':' + seconds; var date1 = new Date(todayDateTime);...

:62127384 i saw that
 
I'm gonna make my own countdown website
and I will start in 4 minutes
1 minute!
 
45 seconds
 
8:00 PM
ooo voting is ranked
uff that makes it worse
 
does that even matter when there's only two candidates?
 
yeah
it forces me to choose one over the other
 
@Seggan No it doesn't.
 
why tf haven't I got Explainer for codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/252491/…?
 
Or at least only if you want the badge.
 
8:03 PM
@WheatWizard how
 
I edited it, I answered it, my answer has >0 score
 
@Seggan Don't vote.
 
@Ginger whats explainer
@WheatWizard well, other than that :P
 
@Seggan Edit then answer a question (within 12 hours of each other) and have your answer get >0 score
 
ah
i thought it was some userscript or smth
 
8:09 PM
@WheatWizard will two mods be elected?
 
no just one
otherwise an election would be silly
 
I wonder which chat user has the largest "last seen"
 
"user" doesn't seem applicable in that case :P
 
8:42 PM
@Ginger Maybe wait 24 hours and it'll show up? I forget how often the system checks for badge criteria.
 
8:53 PM
0
Q: Word wrapping is broken on the election page

Joseph Sible-Reinstate MonicaSome, but not all, of the paragraphs on https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/election have broken word wrapping. Here's a screenshot of what I see for lyxal's answers to questions 5 and 6: The question 5 paragraph is wrapping a bunch of lines mid-word, leaving only one letter at the beginning or e...

 
Hi
It's my first time in chat, I came here for the sandbox, which says "If you think one of your posts requires more feedback, but it's been ignored, you can ask for feedback in The Nineteenth Byte. "
Thank you
 
Welcome to TNB!
You want feedback on that question?
 
Yes, thank you
 
hmm
however
not everyone in TNB is online at the same time, and several sandbox reviewers don't use chat
so you should still wait for at least 2 more days before posting
that is all
 
9:04 PM
I am a dumbass
sorry lol
sure, it looks good to me
sane part of brain said "hey what if they actually did write part 1? you should check" but then rest of brain said "naaaaaah"
 
Thanks
 
np! happy to help
new pfp: DEPLOYED
 
so ive been reading up on arithmetic coding: do I need to know the message's length to decode it?
 
9:19 PM
I think you need to either know the length or have a terminator character, like C strings
If you look at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… the decoding stops when it hits the terminator character, otherwise it could continue forever
Since there's no terminator character, if you don't know the length:
I gets encoded to .1
then decoding it could be I, II, III, or similar if you don't know the length
 
9:34 PM
mhm
so i will need a terminator
arithmetic coding is very similar to huffman coding
 
9:47 PM
CMC: Choose 8 integers. Your score is the number of distinct ways you can write 8 as a sum of some subset of those integers.
(Distinct up to associativity, but not commutativity so 1+(2+5) is the same as (1+2)+5 but 1+7 is counted separately from 7+1)
 
10:09 PM
negatives allowed?
 
10:43 PM
@WheatWizard Is this /s or /srs
@Seggan Fixed
 

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