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12:09 AM
@RadvylfPrograms imagine college spam.
Made by that doesn't happen here gang
12:21 AM
does it actually not
Imagine going to university within the next few years
Made by second year of high school gang
Because if not i would love to move to Australia
I can even speak aussie
Gjoink, let’s wag our chins while we throw prawns at dolls, mate
12:40 AM
@UnrelatedString I never got college spam
Purely because there aren't enough colleges here for spam to happen
There's only 43 to choose from
And depending on where you live, that number is more likely 1 or 2
Unless you're willing to move elsewhere in the country there's basically only one in your greater region
Oh collegeboard probably contributed to my info going to random colleges
12:43 AM
that is kind of when it starts
@lyxal many are (in us at least)
@user my point was more that because the 43 unis are spread over the entire country, choices are effectively limited hence no need for spam in the first place
yeah wait is moving elsewhere not considered expected
Most people I knew from school stayed local
Huh, might be a culture thing
12:45 AM
like considering i'm at a state university i don't feel too weird for being from the same town but i still feel kind of fucking weird
But also, local students isn't where unis make their most money
Advertising to us locals doesn't get the dollars in
The foreign student game is where unis here get their kromer
I didn’t start getting spam from local colleges until much later
like for starters you're actually required by the school to spend your first year in residence and i only got out of that because i convinced the accommodations team i'm too autistic
so it's not like having a house nearby is something that anchors people
12:47 AM
@user no no I mean locals as in all Australians
is tuition the same for in and out of province or is y'all's education just actually subsidized by the government
It's not that it's subsidised it's more that foreign students pay more for some reason
Uni here used to be free but that was last century
i would assume foreign students have to pay more because they aren't australian taxpayers
@lyxal oh
@UnrelatedString hâte schools that do that
@lyxal f
I feel like a lot of stuff that they claim is for your own good is just to make you pay more
Like gen eds
Could do college in 2-3 years without those
1:09 AM
Q: Will not wearing makeup affect my career?

Sigma - check out CodidactI work at a small tech company in the accounting department. Our dress code is business casual, but most of the rank-and-file dress toward the casual end of that. I am female, in my early twenties. I was raised in a very conservative family and never wore makeup growing up. I never bothered wit...

1:26 AM
@NewPosts And this is why underspecified C&Rs are so annoying...
I think SPDT would be really cool if it had a graphical interface
That'd be quite hard to implement though
Also maybe two-ended wires?
1:49 AM
Huh, Aaron Shekey, one of the main designers for SE, left recently
The idea of eternal life is kinda terrifying to me. Like, death's scary and all, but living forever after that would be awful
Like, a thousand years in, you'd be having a lot of fun still. A million? You've probably met everyone you've ever wanted to meet from your life and from history, seen the future of mankind, and done nearly everything there is to do. And that's only a drop in the infinitely large bucket. A billion? You'll be pretty tired of...existing. A trillion? Maybe you decide to simulate a universe. A quadrillion quadrillion?
I just learned about minecraft shulker farms and they feel illegal
The old ones with duping?
@RadvylfPrograms [insert xkcd 505 here]
@RadvylfPrograms No, the new (1.17) farms
Why do they feel like cheating? Bullets causing them to split into two is intended behavior
2:00 AM
I guess
@RadvylfPrograms At some point, you'd stop the simulation out of pity for the people in your universe, not wanting them to suffer from eternal, soul-crushing boredom for infinity in the same way you've been doomed to
And, after the entire universe has reached maximum entropy, inflated so large it's just space, you're still there. And you will be for...ever.
And like, at some point, eternal happiness is just eternally the same day every sunrise. You'd just curl up into a ball, and wait.
And maybe eternal happiness means the boredom and lack of productivity wouldn't literally crush you, and your mental health would stay stable and stuff, so you'd just be a lukewarm pillbug, feeling moderately pleased while lying in bed for the rest of time and far beyond that.
2:18 AM
Okay, while the voting and discussing's not entirely finished for the proposal to make a room for off-topic discussions, it seems people mostly just want stricter enforcement of our on-topic-ness rules, and moving conversations to dedicated rooms more proactively. So, I'm putting on my RO hat (which is sparkly and covered in dust) and making an announcement:
While TNB is a room that allows lots of off-topic discussion, it's gotten out of hand recently. Our chatiquette disallows excessive off-topic posting for a reason, and the silliness has recently been making it difficult to discuss things on-topic to the site, and has discouraged people from participating in TNB. So, before posting anything, please take a second to consider whether it belongs here, or if it would be better in its own room, or just not posted at all.
I haven't seen any on-topic discussion in the last few days
I've been partially responsible, quite a bit actually, for this, and I think a lot of the off-topic-ness has to do with a lull in activity on CGCC and a wave of new users in TNB, not any particular problematic user or group of users. But I, and according to the voting so far, y'all too, think that we should calm down a bit and make a better environment for CGCC and golfing conversations.
@allxy There's been some stuff about golfing language design, a bit of dicussion about sandbox drafts, and the meta-discussion about the off-topic-ness.
I think "Don't: Make Noise" is a good principle to keep in mind too. TNB's been pretty chatty, but we certainly don't need to be. There's nothing wrong with breaking a 2 hour gap in messages, for sure, but I suppose twenty minutes of silence is overall better than twenty minutes of clutter.
@allxy What do you mean by two-ended wires?
They can connect to any number of components, by the way
Wires can only connect to two things, and each other
You'd need to add a simple "connector"
Like, for realism?
Pretty much :P
2:29 AM
The thing is there isn't really enough stuff going on on CGCC itself to keep this chat room active and so we'll have discussions that are not technically on the topic of code golf / Stack Exchange, such as mental health or education related discussions, so the question is whether or not we think those should belong to another room (IMO the former probably should be opt-in but the latter is pretty inconsequential for the most part).
In theory I suppose you could use r - 1 2 - to connect wires 1 and 2, and restrict yourself to only using wires that connect to two things
(Though the main issue is still noise; non-CGCC related topics can still exist and we can decide what to do with that but there's a lot of noise that isn't even on-topic to a technically off-topic topic.)
Yeah, if we should keep or move relatively thoughtful (as in, non-noisy) discussion about off-topic things is something I'm not too sure about.
Like, especially for things only a step or two away from golfing, like conlanging or discussing the school you go to.
Unicode spam, random screenshots, and totally off-topic streams of thought (both of the latter I'm pretty bad about doing myself) definitely aren't needed though
I think I made an IRL friend today though so I can direct some of my off-topic streams of consciousness elsewhere :p
We should have something like a directory for where messages should go
like memes should be redirected to the meme stash
2:38 AM
A flowchart
AI stuff should be sent to the edge of propinquity
Wordle stuff to that math.se room
Screenshots to a screenshot room
Unicode spam to the unicode spam room
Gaming to the gaming room
and that should cover most noise
2:40 AM
And I guess for the more specific noise we can make rooms
Followup announcement: I'm going to be really aggressive about moving off-topic stuff for the next week or so, probably more so than is necessary, but this can be a sort of...practice
Over the last few days:
- Cursed code in general
- Server discussion
- JavaScript * several
- Tinylisp
- canvas
- Windows
- GPT-3
- KoTHs
- wordle
- Vyxal
- Esolang design
- flags
- meta-discussion
- minecraft
- trig trolling
- VLQs
- ukraine
- College spam
(And "aggressive" as in "moving stuff a lot" not "growling at you when you say something not golfing related")
The third-to-last item of that is quite important
Many recent questions haven't been good
where should complains about assignments go?
Cursed code, JavaScript being wack, tinylisp, KoTHs, Vyxal (though a better room exists), esolang design, flags, meta-discussion, and VLQ questions are all perfectly fine here IMO
Math stuff like the trig trolling and Minecraft stuff like Minecraft CPUs can be on-topic, depending on the context
I think more general programming related stuff is mostly on-topic here, as with math, since they're pretty necessary skills for code golfing.
2:47 AM
I now have a less juicy meme stash for random funny screenshots that aren't exactly memes
just so that non-memes don't get moved to the juicy meme stash
so actual memes causing noise go to the juicy stash and images that aren't memes causing noise go to the not-as-juicy stash
Maybe give it a less specific name, so we can move in more generally off-topic memes and funny screenshots. "Lyxal's stash" feels more like you're the museum curator :p
Maybe add a tag to rooms aimed at redirecting noise?
I've added it to both meme stashes and the edge
I usually have disdain towards ants because they crawl all over everything and bite you and all annoying stuff like that. But somehow, I just felt enough concern for an ant to save it from being eaten by a spider.
Tf did they put in my McChicken to make me feel compassionate towards ants?
Which room would this sort of discussion be moved to?
Should we create an ant simping room or put it in the not-so-juicy-memes one
This is why I think we need a more general off-topic-TNB room :p
It's not a screenshot and nothing more is going to be said about it
It's not going to start a conversation about ants or anything, so a room isn't really justified for a single message
Yeah. A general off-topic room would really be useful IMO
Fragmenting into a dozen canonical noise overflow rooms is just a less efficient version of that
Having to maintain and remember to use the unicode spam room, the bakery, the meme stash, the not-so-juicy stash, the edge of propinquity, the wordle room, any rooms we make in the future for things like politics, language-specific rooms like Vyxal, and any topic-specific ones like Canvas is just too much
4:05 AM
I'm just going to avoid TNB for the next week
Shoudln't be hard because:
in canvas, 6 hours ago, by allxy
Announcement: I'm leaving for a week in about two days, do whatever y'all want with canvas. I'll try to get some stuff working before I leave.
@RadvylfPrograms I agree that most of our recent tinylisp discussion has been reasonably on-topic here. However, I've also been very close to moving it to the tinylisp room. The main reason I haven't is because I know it'll get more eyes here. So feel free, anybody, to say "This is getting out of hand" and I'll gladly migrate.
Since it was LYAL, I think it gets a free pass for discussion here in any amount of detail for the next week or so :p
On that note: I've officially started implementing tinylisp 2, and I got lexical scope / closures working just now. Quite a thrill.
And it's not like Vyxal where it's in active development and multiple maintainers need to coordinate and ensure all messages discussing it are in one easily accessible place
Well scratch the "not in active development" part xD
4:10 AM
CMMP: Unfreeze TNH?
TNH is not really an off-topic room
it'd make more sense to create a new one and leave TNH in the past
@hyper-neutrino yeah i knowthat, its for more sensitive stuff
What was TNH again?
if we have a need for it we can unfreeze it but if y'all have a need for a room unfrozen just ping me directly; no need to vote to pre-emptively unfreeze a room before there's demand
@DLosc Nice :)
4:12 AM
@RadvylfPrograms if you're familiar with the RPG.se chat split, it's just that. if not, basically I made it to move controversial (political) discussions out of TNB since it may make the environment too uncomfortable for some users so it's better that it's in a side room to be opt-in rather than opt-out
That and maybe the macro evaluation thing is probably all you need
Oh, could you unfreeze TNBakery while you're here?
We haven't gotten spam in a while apparently
Steps to be hyper-neutrino:
1. Constantly get pinged about unfreezing rooms
@allxy Well, I'm kind of starting from scratch (with a lot of copy-pasting), so it also needs a bunch of builtins, including load, and a library. It does have the new macros, tho--I basically just copied the implementation from Appleseed. :D
4:15 AM
many mods would kill to have a job as easy as mine :P
@RadvylfPrograms At this rate it's going to freeze again lol
I'll just set up a roulette bot that randomly moves one on-topic message per week to the bakery and then comments "lol"
sounds like an excellent idea
@DLosc I can help with implementing macroes in tinylisp
(e.g. short-circuiting and/or)
4:17 AM
if we need it to stay unfrozen the easiest method is for me to just ping makyen in tl and ask him to keep antifreezing it lol
time to port this thing to flax: O’4ḍ-*Ä+ƲỤs2Ṣị, lets hope it works
Also, can you add the Y combinator to the stdlib this time?
@PyGamer0 Trying to figure out what that does
Is that the most recent challenge?
I'm not really sure what people dislike about the concept of a room for off-topic discussion alongside TNB. it has downvores, but not much in the way of explanations of way other than "it's not really practical"
Unrelated String had a 10-byter?
@allxy pair my socks brackets
4:20 AM
I recognise about half of that and I'm misinterpreting the other half from Vyxal lol
Like, sure, chat's designed to have disposable rooms for off-topic discussions, but a lot of what we get is just a couple of messages, like lyxal's ant thing or my occasional college spam updates or occasional existentialism. Having twenty different rooms for different categories of stuff, like unicode spam, screenshots, etc., will always miss some types of off-topic content, is hard to maintain, and makes it so that people kind of have to post off-topic stuff here first then have it moved.
Dec 21, 2021 at 18:01, by Redwolf Programs
Uh...unfortunate typo
Although the idea of a room parallel to TNB that requires constant subjective judgements about what's on-topic enough to be worthy of the main room would be difficult to get used to, I think it's the only real solution other than either having to allow lots of off-topic clutter to slip by, or moving it to an irrelevant room like the bakery.
Meh, I think off-topic is fine when there's nothing on-topic
@allxy Thanks! It'll probably be a few days before I add the new repository on GitHub, and then I will be happy to merge some pull requests. (Including a Y-combinator.) I should probably put together a library coding conventions document...
4:24 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

NutronStar45Multiples Game Given an array of divisors A, loop n from 1 to infinity and do one of the following: If n is divisible by an even number of divisors of A, print out n If n is divisible by an odd number of divisor(s) of A, print out * (clap) Examples Input: A = [3, 5] Output: 1 2 * 4 * * 7 8 * *...

@DLosc Yeah. Feel free to close that PR I added. 'cos I'll be away for a week in two days, I won't be able to help until I get back
@allxy I kind of don't. Occasional off-topic-ness is fine, esp. programming and math related topics, but the excessive silliness, noise, and wildly off-topic discussion is harmful to the room overall in a number of ways
@RadvylfPrograms Devil's advocate: what's wrong with people posting stuff here first, then having it moved? And why does the same type of off-topic content necessarily have to go into the same room, rather than a new room each time it happens?
Well, moving requires an RO or mod to be present and move it, and it leaves behind the "xyz was moved" message.
@allxy I'll do that--also because the new version is going in its own repository, and keeping the original repository consistent with the version on TIO feels appropriate.
4:26 AM
And making a new room for four messages about saving an ant, an unfortunate typo in my english assignment, or today's college spam to their own rooms just isn't practical.
@DLosc Yeah, although I guess you'll need somewhere to host it
Maybe RTO/ATO (@RadvylfPrograms/@pxeger)
The most problematic form of noise IMO isn't the long but thoughtful off-topic discussions, like ones about politics or subjects like math and science. It's the clutter and noise, streams of consciousness, and other things which don't require prolonged discussion.
Ooh... I wonder if I can get pyodide to run it?
@allxy Yep, I'll definitely request for it to be added to ATO once I have something worth adding. Might also try again to get it working on Replit. Now that I've got a Pip REPL running at Replit, I really like the idea of being able to run a language in REPL mode there as well as non-REPL mode elsewhere.
I might be able to get it running as a repl in js
4:29 AM
RTO's going to have a REPL built-in
Yeah, but a JS repl is (while not native speed) instant.
There'll be a "Run" tab for individual programs, and a "Try" tab with a REPL or some other interactive thing
@allxy yeah, true. Language specific online interpreters will always be more efficient and configurable.
alright i think i ported it: i˜SÇ⍋+K¯*ᶲ4ḍ{
Is it just me or is that shorter?
it is, but i have to test it to see if it works
just 1 byte short
obviously it doesn't work
4:36 AM
I propose an experiment: After one week of our current plan, we create an off-topic-room for one week, and see how well both seem to work
Write it like you'd write a normal program
@RadvylfPrograms I can get behind that
see if either idea works
i give up
1 hour later…
5:41 AM
>>> "{]([(}]{)}"
so umm, it sort of works
except it doesnt work
this is hard
in flax, 11 secs ago, by PyGamer0
CMP: New release?
@lyxal @allxy ^
I would say so
i will just carefully read the code and then make a new release
6:00 AM
@lyxal ^ done
6:20 AM
9 hours ago, by Unrelated String
it's still probably possible to make pathing that beats the default attackbot by some margin
> Will write a challenge soon™️
when will you?
i had a challenge idea like two months ago but cba to salvage it
CMP: What questions should I answer in my new language?
i guess my bookmarked ones
i am waiting for ato to have flax :P
6:38 AM
Q: Diiference between performance testing and load testing

Sriram UrvamWhat is the key difference between performance testing and load testing and what open source tool i can use for this.

that's a new one
why is it already bookmarked lol
look at the tag lol
and yup, both the question asker and the answerer have the same IP
like it's some really confused attempt at spam or something
6:52 AM
@lyxal look: Ï⅀
do you recognise that
@NewPosts Laughed out loud
The tag is the cherry on top
7:09 AM
@PyGamer0 oh no is that original vyxal code page?
Goodness me that's a blast from the past
Original Vyxal codepage was kinda cursed ngl
@lyxal When do you think Vyxal became its own language instead of Keg 2.0?
Which is still going slowly btw
Although I'd argue that it never was Keg 2.0
That was your design intent tho :P
7:48 AM
@allxy design inspiration
Not intent
The intent was to make anything but Keg
I guess lol
And apart from a few stylistic syntax things, I'd say I did a pretty good job of accomplishing that
@lyxal thats a keg program :)
1 hour later…
9:06 AM
@lyxal i promise I’ll get mist of it done in june/mat
Just busy with exams and life rn
@user I more meant that the element planning has a while to go
9:28 AM
Ouch... Combining Python and JS promises is hard.
Also wtf python - try...except...else???
tfw radvylf created tinylisp
Just found this gem in the tinylisp source code:
(def tinylisp (q awesome))
1 hour later…
11:01 AM
Okay so I've had a little idea on how to help address the noise issue here. What if instead of trying to reduce the noise, you increase the on topic conversation to "drown out" the noise. My suggestion would be to have a full day purely dedicated to people asking for feedback on code golf related projects they're working on.
That's never gonna work
Kind of like LYAL but for on topic subjects in general
Let stuff come when it comes
I'm not done yet
I'm thinking of a new chat event that really draws people into being on topic
People would nominate on topic things they would want help with and the chat focus would be helping them build or solve whatever they're working on
They'd sort of be like community directives - things that are on topic that people would want to collaborate on
Is that really more on-topic than what usually happens?
11:05 AM
It would be a hyper focus on on-topic conversation
Just to get people into the mindset of on topic
This is just an idea at this stage
An idea to be discussed
A community directive about community directives so to say
Oh and it'd be reoccurring event too
Maybe taking the place of BMG
24 hour long events seem to perform better than 1 hour events
This is either just a phase or a feedback cycle
canvas + CGCC inactivity -> silence -> off-topicness -> some users temporarily leave -> silence
And what even defines "on-topic" and "off-topic" anyway? The line's very blurred.
I'm kinda glad that I'm not here for the next week
Y'all are overreacting, I think
Although maybe I'm a bit biased, since I've been moving away from CGCC over the past few weeks
> Storing Data using that sessionStorage object is a really useful way to keep data on the client-side. Obviously this has some outstanding security flaws where data could be easily accessed without the user’s permission. Always ensure encrypt your data before storing them.
11:22 AM
Are they suggesting storing sensitive information on the user’s side?
Yep lol
Or just random site settings and stuff?
@allxy oh no
"But encrypted, so it's fine"
Where is this from?
11:23 AM
@lyxal oh ok
@allxy I agree with this too
> Wisdom Ekpot
@allxy finally someone gets it
Do browsers prevent other tabs from accessing that tab’s storage?
If so, this is somewhat more reasonable but still weird
11:27 AM
Hey wait why are we letting JS do the session handling?
That's to be done by the controllers
@allxy how about we change that temporary to permanent
Not the views
@PyGamer0 boutta do that myself tbh
Once I’m done with vyxal I’m probably going to leave cgcc
Eats up too much of my time without giving much in return anymore
> done with Vyxal
One does not simply stop using Vyxal
Instead, one uses Vyxal for everything
I mean like 70% done implementing the Scala version
11:35 AM
vyxal on arduino
@allxy joke’s on you, i never started using it
@allxy oh god no
Q: Sieve of Eratosthenes in Vyxal

userI'm trying to learn the golfing language Vyxal because I occasionally contribute to it, and I'm slightly ashamed I can't even use it. To do this, I started with implementing the Sieve of Eratosthenes in Vyxal. I'd like to know how to make this code more readable and idiomatic, and, if there are i...

Vyxal ffi would be so painful
@user The binary would probably be too large :P
True lol
@allxy ignore plz
I think this sort of “off topic “ conversation is fine because no one else is speaking rn
Tnb id informal anyway
11:41 AM
@user Yeah, there's nothing really to do one you get 2⅓ best ofs and 25k internet points
@user you right
So TIL npx http-server appears to mess with sessionStorage
... never mind
sessionStorage is being weird on its own and I can't figure out why
@lyxal he no right, he user!
Lowkey just tried to connect to my wireless headphones not realising that I hadn't turned them on yet. Big brain time.
11:51 AM
Q: i won a guessing type game and they sent me $9500 and they are asking me to send it back trough different ways and that i will get more money

Kayla DavidsonI won and ended up giving them all this info I got $9500 in my account but now they are asking me to send it back thru different methods with the methods that don't work now. They say it's to prove to the company that they can trust me. and that I will get more money back. is this a scam and if ...

12:06 PM
vyxal ported to CircuitPython
I intend to stay with CGCC
@RadvylfPrograms I like this idea
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

GingerWill this makina program halt? makina is a cell-based esolang composed of automata which move around a grid. These automata follow paths of instructions that direct their movement. Your task is to, given a makina program using the below instructions as input, output a truthy or falsy value depend...

^ onioni?
12:35 PM
This is all I'll mention of it here, but is anyone up for some uno?
(respond in gaming room)
@lyxal link?
I'll give it next round
tfw you almost post a hashed version of your IP address to some random chatroom


For CG&CC users to discuss and play video games and board game...
12:43 PM
prediction: this challenge will never be solved in makina.
in fact, I'm so sure of that I'm going to make a bounty
tfw you want to make a makina answer but it's too hard
here's an awful idea: self-modifying makina
here's a prototype makina program for print 0-100 w/o 1-9:
v  Ltaaa;
1:10 PM
A: List of bounties with no deadline

Ginger1000 rep to an answer to this challenge in makina Pretty self-explanatory. If you manage to post a functional answer to that challenge in makina, I'll give you 1k rep. I'm pretty sure this is impossible, but would loved to be proved wrong!

there's a feed for that too?

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