The Nineteenth Byte

caird coinheringaahing

4:07 PM

Oh, Adnan changed his profile picture

hyper-neutrino

Oh, huh. (I no longer remember what the old one was :/)

Wheat Wizard

doge

caird coinheringaahing

but like a cartoon version

pxeger

@WheatWizard how (and why) do you remember these things

Wheat Wizard

Specifcally drawn in MS paint.

hyper-neutrino

4:12 PM

ah, I think I remember now

Wheat Wizard

Adnan is like one of the top users. Of course I would remember.

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, it'd be like if Dennis changed his. It sticks out :P

hyper-neutrino

yeah. I just haven't seen adnan for too long and I noticed his profile picture change a couple weeks ago

"cartoon doge" is enough for me to remember tho :p

caird coinheringaahing

In fact, of the top users by rep, Martin, Arnauld, Calvin, Doorknob, Digital Trauma and WW have all noticeably changed their pfps since I joined

Razetime

I should change mine to squidward drip

Wheat Wizard

4:16 PM

I would say it is more notable that I stopped changing my pic a while back.

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing hyper has too, no? (or was that only temporary?)

hyper-neutrino

speaking of top users by rep I have finally joined the other mods there :P

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Just about to congratulate you on that :P

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger I have changed my profile picture several times, but the one I am using right now is significantly different from the one people initially recognized me by

Razetime

@hyper-neutrino woohoo

~y

hyper-neutrino

4:16 PM

(that is, my benzene ring)

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Yeah, I only looked at the first 3 rows (top 12) users by total rep

Wheat Wizard

Oh yeah you had the benzene ring.

hyper-neutrino

you can find evidence of that here :P

caird coinheringaahing

@WheatWizard I did like the blurry pictures of cats tbh :P

Wheat Wizard

Yeah those are great.

hyper-neutrino

4:18 PM

surprisingly, the flair never updated

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I love that the flair has just refused to update :D

I think if you edit the question it might, so no one edit it :P

hyper-neutrino

yeah, you can see my comments complaining about that and it still hasn't, which is actually good here lol

Wheat Wizard

Aren't flair's just images uploaded to imgur?

hyper-neutrino

oh yeah seems like it is lol

although https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/flair/$USERID.png will give you an updated flair, I think?

but here xnor used imgur which I guess I didn't notice. which does mean my profile picture is preserved in history there :P

pxeger

yes I think that was the point

hyper-neutrino

4:21 PM

unfortunately I didn't notice at the time when I tried to rotate my profile picture to match it. but at least it stayed a benzene ring

l4m2

@user ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'graphillion' on tio

pxeger

@l4m2 yes, you'll have to install it locally

rak1507

github.com/kunisura/GGCount

pxeger

@rak1507 I just ran that with n=28, and it used so much memory immediately that, after killing it, systemd-coredump itself ran out of memory!

rak1507

lmao

l4m2

4:32 PM

what if include harddisk?

0 '

@WheatWizard I hate it when discord makes you download a new version manually

pxeger

yes, it could use swap, but I imagine that would be unmanageably slow

Wheat Wizard

That does suck yes.

Redwolf Programs

4:53 PM

I saw a notification with a comment saying "there is strong meta support for xyz" and got worried for a second that I'd somehow messed something up so bad my challenge got discussed on meta lol

hyper-neutrino

lol

New Posts

0

Q: Is it a [question] or a [challenge]?

Both of these tags are active on Meta: challenges and questions One has 17 questions, the other 44. One has no tag wiki, the other does. They both, more or less, ask about questions on the main site. There is, currently, no overlap in tagging. Additionally, we have 6 tags (asking-questions, close...

Redwolf Programs

First challenge in a while, might actually be able to repcap today

hyper-neutrino

the lack of distinguishment between meta and main posts besides the mandatory tags is a bit confusing but i'll get used to it

caird coinheringaahing

Check to the right side of the message - shows the meta/main logo

Redwolf Programs

4:55 PM

@hyper-neutrino Same, but it's better than having an additional bot in the sidebar imo

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing ._.

i am smart

@RedwolfPrograms yeah I agree

Redwolf Programs

And NMetaP was so unbelievably slow leaving it as a normal feed would be awful

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, with NMetaP, I'd have to wait ~an hour to get 3 upvotes, rather than 10 seconds :P

Wezl

@hyper-neutrino I didn't see it either

time to make a language called "discussion" and create a large amount of interesting challenges related so it becomes a main tag :D

2

Redwolf Programs

Or a new owc about programs that talk to one another

Wheat Wizard

5:02 PM

Time to make a language called "cops and robbers".

hyper-neutrino

make a language called code-golf, and then chaos ensues

Redwolf Programs

I've always wanted to make a language called <all languages>

caird coinheringaahing

Nah, the trick is to get SE to create a Code Golf badge, then no one can get the code-golf tag badge :P

Redwolf Programs

:o

I think SP isn't in the users list anymore

@SandboxPosts STATUS

caird coinheringaahing

Because Tag badges aren't awarded if there is already a regular badge with the same name :P

Redwolf Programs

5:06 PM

Success!

Wezl

>:\

Redwolf Programs

21k ws messages received lol

Okay so it looks like there's no heartbeat, you just have to detect when the socket stops sending messages and restart it

caird coinheringaahing

If you restart the socket every 15 minutes, it should never die

Redwolf Programs

Easier to just restart it when it dies

Wezl

this sounds an awful lot like manually posting challenges

Redwolf Programs

5:16 PM

?

Not manually

hyper-neutrino

manual posting minus the manual part?

Redwolf Programs

It just detects it and restarts it when necessary

I'm not saying I'll manually restart it

hyper-neutrino

i don't think redwolf means he'll go restart it by pressing up arrow + enter in the terminal each time lol

→ 2 messages moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

Redwolf Programs

And the sockets I'm talking about aren't the ones that are actually important, they're just "cosmetic" ones that handle the status requests and keep the bots in the users list

If they die it's not that bad

In theory that's the last few changes I should need to make.

At some point in the future I might make it be able to detect if it misses a post during the 2 minutes or so it's down for updates (weekly), but that's very unlikely to ever happen

Sandbox Posts

5:32 PM

RUNNING: [1] 1 1

[17:32:33] ws: wss://chat.sockets.stackexchange.com/events/240/01cf75c26ac44914bf7c6432d68e431a?l=125149424
[17:32:34] opened: nmp
[17:32:34] opened: sandbox

Redwolf Programs

Wrong room :|

Okay, you can now ping NP/SP for status in any room

hyper-neutrino

nice

Redwolf Programs

If you need the status of the bots, this room already has a message by SP so you can ping it at any time

hyper-neutrino

can confirm, they can be superpinged into any room

Redwolf Programs

Oh, that's even better

hyper-neutrino

5:36 PM

do they instantly drop out of the user list?

Redwolf Programs

No

hyper-neutrino

they don't show up in the sandbox rn even though i just pinged them in there

Redwolf Programs

That's odd

Maybe acknowledging the superping makes them leave?

hyper-neutrino

wack

Wheat Wizard

How does one forcibly reload a chat profile? Asking for a friend.

hyper-neutrino

5:39 PM

@WheatWizard on their profile > moderation tools > refresh profile from parent site

Wheat Wizard

Thanks.

hyper-neutrino

you may need to set their parent site if you're trying to update their username or copy a suspension

Wheat Wizard

I'm going to do mod abuse now.

7

hyper-neutrino

D:

ooh nice new pfp :D

Wheat Wizard

Yeah, it's so pretty.

Redwolf Programs

5:42 PM

Chat's kinda janky...it uses post requests for anything client-to-server, when it already has a websocket set up for server-to-client

Seems like it'd reduce the load a bit to just reuse the same ws connection for everything

hyper-neutrino

I'm undecided on whether to rainbowify my pfp to show support or to leave it to avoid misleading people / people mistakenly thinking i'm lgbtqa+ myself. don't want to offend anyone or make it seem like i'm just following a trend or trivializing matters

Wezl

just include every possible permutation of pixels to not offend anyone

Wheat Wizard

Just be gay. Then you don't have to worry.

rak1507

@WheatWizard high iq

hyper-neutrino

lol

caird coinheringaahing

6:00 PM

@hyper-neutrino I can't speak for anyone else, but when I see people change pfps, or wear rainbow apparel, I never think its a bad thing unless its clearly motivated by something else (e.g. most companies)

Plus its always a positive when high-visibility members of the CGCC community (e.g. mods) show their support, whether they're LGBTQ or not

Underslash

Here's a challenge which feels too vague, but I'm interested to here what you guys think of it (its not even code-golf):

Give a challenge that would be solvable with a 0 byte solution (an empty program) in your language, but it cannot be repeated from another answer or trivially modified.

Wheat Wizard

It could be made concrete with by having you implement a checker of some sort.

But what counts as repeated is going to be a bit sticky.

Underslash

yeah

caird coinheringaahing

@Underslash "Output Hello, World!", and my language is Stuck

Wheat Wizard

And idk how to score.

One thing you could do is do it so your language can't pass any previous test and no previous program can pass your test.

Underslash

6:08 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing "+1 upvoted because the challenge needs a starting point" lol

well, I think they would need to be allowed to pass the previous tests, just so that certain languages don't get banned if another solution potentially exists

Wheat Wizard

I guess it depends, but most languages do a couple of rather boring things on the empty program. So I figured it would be good to eliminate them early on.

Underslash

true, but you could come up with creative solutions for a couple of them

another idea

write a program and input, that outputs a value x, but when swapped, it also outputs that same value

that one falls victim to both parts being the same

or that it just doesnt take input

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah, that is definitely true (also I agree, companies rainbowifying their logos and simultaneously doing nothing for LGBTQA+ people or even supporting institutions or organizations that harm them is such a terrible thing and I'm glad it's starting to be noticed more and people aren't taking the "we support gay people" at face value anymore)

since changing my pfp to a female fictional character has caused at least one case of confusion about my gender identity i am more aware of misrepresenting myself with my avatar though (hopefully nobody thinks I am an anonymous function :D)

rak1507

@hyper-neutrino change it to an anime girl with a pride flag and that will really confuse people!

caird coinheringaahing

^

hyper-neutrino

6:18 PM

3000 iq

hyper-neutrino

6:37 PM

Interestingly, reassociating my chat account with Stack Overflow doesn't remove my diamond from chat, but it removes my access from TL :P

it also removes the mod tools button on user profiles though

Redwolf Programs

I don't see a diamond anymore, actually

hyper-neutrino

nvm caching I think

Redwolf Programs

Might be a caching thing

ninja'd

hyper-neutrino

heh, I can't fix my message anymore either, because it's been 2 minutes

this would've made for a good april fools' prank

Redwolf Programs

I now have more power here than you :p

hyper-neutrino

6:40 PM

in theory you should now be able to kick me :P

Redwolf Programs

I can, yeah :p

It shows me the option under your profile

hyper-neutrino

this feels very strange :p

Redwolf Programs

CSS is fun:

hyper-neutrino

o.O

yeah huh, doorknob is the only mod who's formally an RO here, lol

Wheat Wizard

doorknob's still a mod? :P

hyper-neutrino

6:47 PM

:P

Wheat Wizard

If you look at the handled flags you would think HN is the only mod.

Redwolf Programs

I wonder what happens if there's an infinity.html which contains <iframe src="infinity.html"></iframe>

hyper-neutrino

i think i done broke chat

Redwolf Programs

It seems it only nests two frames deep :(

hyper-neutrino

the "rejoin favorite rooms" button now is totally broken; pressing it just makes it disappear and nothing happens

@WheatWizard lol, yeah the difference in flag counts is a bit larger than i remembered it being; just checked. just a combination of timezones and me having too much time on my hands :p

also thanks for clearing the meta flags that i forgot to mark helpful after applying the change for lol

Redwolf Programs

6:51 PM

If I add a random token to the URL with JS it seems it'll keep nesting, time to try that and break things horribly

Wheat Wizard

I "handled" 3 flags today where you did the action but forgot to actually close the flag.

hyper-neutrino

yep :D i've done that a couple of times since deleting the answer clears custom flags (specifically the "this answer is invalid" flags) which is... pretty much all of the flags we get

Redwolf Programs

No way

It works

hyper-neutrino

uh oh

when redwolf says "it works" either he has made a userscript / bot work or he is about to unleash the 10th circle of javascript hell

Adám

Is it just me, or is this page annoying to your eyes too?

hyper-neutrino

6:54 PM

@Adám that page is absolutely hideous (IMO)

Redwolf Programs

redwolfprograms.com/infinity.html

(WARNING: Close quickly :p)

Those are infinitely nesting iframes

hyper-neutrino

even before the horrible background animation started it just looks cluttered cuz it takes up 100% of my screen to show just the title and the color is just weird

Redwolf Programs

Technically they'll stop at some point, at a random point long after the sun has exploded

Due to the random token possibly being the same as the previous one, causing a security error to prevent what I just did

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms for me it seems to stop after 10 iterations

Redwolf Programs

You must be using a "sensible browser" :p

hyper-neutrino

6:56 PM

firefox

Redwolf Programs

Anyway, gotta groom the goat for now o/

hyper-neutrino

since the iframes are the same size as each other, they can scroll when nesting, leading to this pure art

Adám

@RedwolfPrograms 10

This looks dodgy:

<noscript><iframe src="https://www.googletagmanager.com/ns.html?id=GTM-MNTH5N"
  height="0" width="0" style="display:none;visibility:hidden"></iframe></noscript>

hyper-neutrino

where is this?

Adám

That horrid site.

Also, why do they even bother asking me about cookies? I rejected all, and Privacy Badger still caught 9 trackers.

hyper-neutrino

7:03 PM

:/

but yeah that noscript block definitely looks extremely sus.

i forget why i stopped privacy badger - i think it was breaking a lot of things? not sure

Adám

Worth it, imo.

hyper-neutrino

it was causing weird caching-like issues where sites would be loading a totally wrong version or something liek that

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino I worry about doing things like that to show my support for [cause] because I think people will think "oh but you didn't do that for [other cause]; do you hate [people]?"

Adám

Never noticed that.

hyper-neutrino

maybe that's something else then.

Adám

7:04 PM

@pxeger Good point.

hyper-neutrino

i'll re-add it and see

Adám

These days, I use Privacy Badger's tracker count as a non-GDPR-cmopliant flag after I reject all cookies.

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger yeah, that's definitely true as well. hence why I try to keep out of "siding" with issues and rather just make sure this place is a safe environment for everyone (barring the whole "you can't tolerate intolerance if you want to be tolerant" paradox) to the extent of my ability

rak1507

@Adám you can be both

Adám

Who decides what "white" means? To my knowledge, I have zero Indo-European blood.

rak1507

7:11 PM

People not being discriminated against doesn't diminish other people's identities

Adám

I just happen to have light skin.

terdon

OK, let's please not start a contest about what group of people have been most discriminated against. That is not going to lead to anything good or productive.

13

Adám

Agreed. Sorry, I didn't want to do that either.

terdon

No worries :)

Adám

However, I do feel an external pressure on me to actively express support for certain causes, and I don't think that's right.

rak1507

7:17 PM

Well, in the past people would have felt pressure to actively suppress support for those causes, so it's not like it's a new thing, it has just been shifted in a way

terdon

There's nothing new about it at all, it's as old as humanity. Everyone feels pressure from society to support whatever cause the society they live in is currently espousing and it is always hard for those who don't necessarily agree.

Adám

@terdon So, what do you recommend? Resisting or bending over?

pxeger

oh for crying out loud have you not got the hint that most of us don't want to have this discussion?

2

rak1507

@Adám do what you want just don't be surprised when most people think that the views aren't necessarily compatible with modern views

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám Neither - show basic respect for everyone regardless of their religion, sexuality, race or whatever. Beyond that, this isn't something we should discuss here

terdon

7:23 PM

@Adám If I had an answer to that, I wouldn't be hanging out here with you all, would I? :P

caird coinheringaahing

@terdon Pinning this as it clearly needs to be more prominent than just starred

terdon

I'd be teaching the world the Right Way® instead!

Adám

People "teaching the world the Right Way®" has lead to a lot of suffering in the past. :-)

@cairdcoinheringaahing That is very much what I try to do. And I think you'll have a hard time finding any messages or other communications from me where I show disrespect to anyone based on any characteristic of theirs.

terdon

@Adám past, present and future. Anyone who thinks there is such a thing as a Right Way® let alone those who think they know what that way is, is someone I do not want to interact with.

caird coinheringaahing

See, as far as I can recall, requiring code to be as short as possible has never lead to suffering, so I have at least one suggestion for what the Right Way® should be :P

rak1507

7:26 PM

@Adám 'Resisting or bending over?' does not seem particularly respectful to me

pxeger

> requiring code to be as short as possible has never lead to suffering

press X to doubt

terdon

@cairdcoinheringaahing RW®?

Adám

@terdon Uh oh, that sounds discriminatory to me ;-)

terdon

Damn straight. I have no interest in people who think they know The Right Way®.

Wezl

[](youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

@pxeger oh, uhhh... I rebound X to do that

caird coinheringaahing

7:27 PM

@Adám Yes, I agree (which is why I voted for you in the RO election). I wasn't telling you to change any behaviour, rather, advocating for action I believe is the most appropriate for us all to follow

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing You'd be surprised. I've gotten criticism multiple times for making my code too terse.

terdon

I only hope that wasn't on the main site!

Mast

@cairdcoinheringaahing Maintenance hell is suffering.

Adám

@terdon No, at my job!

terdon

Ah :)

caird coinheringaahing

7:28 PM

@Mast Once its as short as can be, there's no need to maintain it :P

Adám

I'm one of the very few people that do code golf for a living, but separating code golf from other coding can be hard…

@cairdcoinheringaahing Until someone points out a failing case…

hyper-neutrino

The shorter your code is, the less you need to look through or change if you need to fix it :)

caird coinheringaahing

Pesky empty inputs :P

pxeger

> I'm ~~one of~~ the ~~very few people~~ person that does code golf for a living

FTFY

caird coinheringaahing

The person :P

Adám

7:30 PM

1∊few, no?

pxeger

specificity

caird coinheringaahing

1 is insignificant, at least according to Jelly. It doesn't have a "Is few" builtin tho

Wezl

@Adám yes but 1 is golfier

Adám

Who knows, maybe there are more. But it is actually in my official job description.

Wezl

:O

caird coinheringaahing

7:31 PM

Hey, do y'all mind if we go to war with this guy?

rak1507

lol seen it before pretty dumb article

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing Not at all. How do you want to approach him? Quiet assassination or nuke from orbit?

hyper-neutrino

"golfing production code is stupid so code golf as a whole is bad"

caird coinheringaahing

@Adám How about both? Send in an assassin with a pocket nuke?

The whole "Here’s a real world scenario that actually happened in my working career a few years ago." example isn't an argument against code golf, its an argument against a shitty coder

hyper-neutrino

give 'em the lyxal fridge treatment

using anecdotes as proof of a point is a classic and unfortunately too many people will actually give it any thought

caird coinheringaahing

7:35 PM

Also, what kind of parent calls their child "Other Developer"? That's nominative determinism 101

Wezl

@cairdcoinheringaahing this is the first time I've seen centered code :O

caird coinheringaahing

Given that we have some CR mods in the room, what do y'all think of calling a sum function sumOfTwoNumbers?

Peilonrayz

@cairdcoinheringaahing Please no D:

caird coinheringaahing

Seems to go against a lot of what I see in answers on CR in that its overly complicated :P

@Peilonrayz In which case, CGCC and CR finally have a common enemy :P

2

user

I sense this alliance will be rather short-lived :P

Peilonrayz

7:38 PM

Indeed ;)

user

const x = (a, b) => a + b

Adám

Official document from my work:

user

@user ^^ That's crappy code by both CGCC and CR standards

rak1507

woo, my laptop had issues earlier and had to rollback to a backup, it seems to work! cautious optimism... I wonder if the issue had anything to do with my bodged installation of q a few days earlier

user

@Adám CGCC's that important to Dyalog, huh?

Adám

7:40 PM

Yup.

pxeger

@user it's outreach advertising

Wezl

addition functions should be called "+" . >:

Wheat Wizard

"sumOfTwoNumbers"

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Random Prisoner's Trilemma - Python 3 KOTH The Prisoner's Dilemma, but with 3 choices, and the payoffs are random! Each round, your bot recieves a 3x3 grid and chooses a row to play. The grid might be this: 4 5 7 3 1 9 9 9 0 Each number in the grid is between 0 and 10 (inclusive). Your s...

rak1507

@Adám if this is actually confidential you should probably delete it, there are almost certainly ways to deblur it

there was that password depixellation thing I saw a while ago there are probably things for blur too

Adám

7:41 PM

@rak1507 There's nothing really secret there. We don't really do secrets at Dyalog, other than customer info. The main reason for the blur is for the emphasis.

pxeger

@rak1507 I can nearly de-blur it just with my eyes. The line containing Code Golf says Stack Overflow, Code Golf, Code Review. Tag ...

Adám

@pxeger Wow, well done. The last is actually "Top An".

If anyone wants to see the whole section, I'll happily share it.

pxeger

@Adám years of trying to read from too far away without glasses will do that for you

@Adám ...swers?

Adám

Yes.

> Usually Spaces and line breaks don’t count as characters, just so that judges can actually read the solution properly.

Lies ^

pxeger

HERESY!

Adám

7:44 PM

Now can we nuke him?

Wheat Wizard

That's just a way to encourage whitespace answers. Which is a way to guarantee that the judges can't read the solution.

user

Look at the comments. Someone's already made a big argument about why code golf doesn't suck because it's an enjoyable activity

Adám

@WheatWizard But it is objectively wrong too. We don't count function sumOfTwoNumbers as functionsumOfTwoNumbers.

user

@Adám This article isn't necessarily talking about us. Maybe he stumbled upon some other (false) golfing site that made the ridiculously stupid decision of not counting whitespace

(btw, why did moderators from CR come here?)

Adám

But it also says you can use any language you want, so Whitespace is fair game…

Wezl

7:47 PM

why does anyone come here?

user

Good question

Redwolf Programs

They've decided to betray their site. The code golf side is a path to many abilities...

Wezl

> You’ve got a point. It’s been a while since I wrote this article. If I recall correctly, my motivation was against using it in projects.

a very good motivation (from the blog)

Redwolf Programs

That's...not the point of code golf lol

Adám

@pxeger I just remembered that my father once did too.

user

7:49 PM

Probably a rant inspired by one idiot who used halfway-golfed code in production

Redwolf Programs

"I heard about 'malware', but I think it's not a very effective technique for including in my production code"

Wheat Wizard

Depends on how much your getting paid.

user

That's devious

> Remember, it’s not all bad. Just don’t use it in the workplace, interviews or in personal projects!

^ Who tf does this guy think he is to tell me what I can do in my personal projects?

Redwolf Programs

I think they thought that code golf was some sort of technique meant to be used in real code, not a totally separate hobby

"Remember, F1 racing is not all bad. Just don't use it in the workplace, interviews, or day-to-day driving."

Adám

^

user

7:53 PM

@RedwolfPrograms Unless your "workplace" is the racetrack

caird coinheringaahing

@user A flag was raised, and resolved. See the starboard for more

user

Oh

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms "F1 is awful. I remember a time when I drove my Ferrari at 200mph down a residential street and hit someone, therefore no one should ever drive fast"

user

"Using spices is a terrible idea. One time, I poured a ton of it into my eyes and went blind, so no one should ever consume it"

Wheat Wizard

Ok, I don't think that is a fair analogy.

user

7:55 PM

It's (very) exaggerated, but it's a joke, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

caird coinheringaahing

More like "I added a crap ton of cumin to my pizza and it was bad, so no one should ever use seasoning"

pxeger

"I added garlic to my strawberry ice cream and it made me throw up. Ban garlic!"

Adám