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2:00 PM
Hi, I have a lot of left-over peanut butter that I'm not sure what to do with. Anyone have any ideas for what to do with it?
@NewMainPosts I wish that at like 15k, you got a "this is blatantly off-topic" CV hammer :/
So that for questions like this, which have no place on the site, you can just hammer it closed, VTD and be done with it in under a minute
New Posts is now officially released! Install here.
how did that stay open for half an hour, lol
Not enough people saw it
quick question: is it possible for the product of a 3x2 and a 2x3 matrix to be I_3? i want to say no but i'm not too sure (asking for a friend)
2:13 PM
@hyper-neutrino Is there a mod policy on just insta-deleting those kind of questions after being closed?
@hyper-neutrino If the elements of the matrices can be any values, I think so
@NewMainPosts Rich peanut butter and softened butter are blended until the mixture is light and fluffy. Confectioner's sugar adds sweetness, while thickening the buttercream. The milk thins or thickens it to your liking. Additionally, we like to sift the sugar before adding it, just in case there are any lumps. ...
@hyper-neutrino Wait, hang on, I don't think so. AB = I means that B = A^-1, which can't happen if dim(A) != dim(B)
@cairdcoinheringaahing You can have a 2x3 and a 3x2 matrix's product be I tho
B=A^-1 isn't really true because that requires BA=I as well, which isn't always guaranteed if AB=I
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm not sure. I like to keep them around just because usually activity pushes them off the page anyway, and it gets roomba'd eventually anyway
but i don't really see any harm in deleting it instantly. i suppose i could, since it is obviously off-topic if you read our site help at all and the user can still see the close comments if i delete it, I think?
@hyper-neutrino Wolfram Alpha says no solutions exist
@hyper-neutrino Personally, I always VTD off-topic posts as soon as they reach -3, but I suppose that having a binding vote could prompt more caution/delay
2:26 PM
note that there are solutions for the reverse product being I_2
@hyper-neutrino Interesting that me and Bubbler have answer scores of 14/13, but the question itself only on +9
@Neil okay thanks. yeah the reverse product was easy. now that i think about it the original problem is asking for an injection from F^3 to F^2 and an surjection from a subspace of F^2 to F^3 which can't be possible
vice versa you can just map (a,b) to (a,b,0) and then mapping back is easy lol
@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah, kinda strange :P nominations are still getting upvotes too but my question stopped getting any after like a day
@RedwolfPrograms Can report that updating has "fixed" the API issue :D
not that i really have anything to gain except maybe a question badge, lol
@cairdcoinheringaahing that's fair. i prefer to only use my instant delete once the post is pretty much forgotten about and won't get VTD'd normally anymore but still needs to be removed
or if it's an invalid submission which i mostly find from flag handling
@cairdcoinheringaahing That's good, I guess I should probably register random question too
2:33 PM
@hyper-neutrino In this specific question, it's currently got 2 VTDs, so whoever casts the next vote has a "binding" vote in this case ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
there's now the other problem of i don't know how to delete from my phone
@NewMainPosts Go to a the home of someone you don't like and put it in their clothes. Bonus points if you bring ants with you.
@hyper-neutrino From the app or the mobile site?
app. just deleted it from the mobile site tho
@hyper-neutrino Yeah, you can only delete your own posts from the app, and I think even that's only on the iOS app
2:38 PM
Updated my random question userscripts, no new features but I'd recommend it since it increases the number of times you can click the button in a day from around 120 to several thousand
yeah the app is only really good for getting notifications, lol
@RedwolfPrograms This update reminds me of xkcd.com/619
rip flash :\
For Cat, Quine, Hello World, can the Vim quine be simply "quine", i.e. can I assume I'm in insert mode or append mode already?
nooo votecap and it's morning
I've probably written or rewritten more than half of the tag wiki :p
3:35 PM
Hi everyone!
Can we use powershell.exe executable when we write Windows Batch answers?
Batch lacks of lot of features so I want to use this
3:47 PM
that would be a different language
I think you may be able to assume it's available, though I don't know why you wouldn't just use powershell
but as John Dvorak said, you'd count it as Windows Batch + Powershell
Now I realize I shouldn't edit answers about to be deleted :/
How about creating a fork of Batch language, with added features? Then would it be valid
4:08 PM
user image
The Redwolf Curve™
@RedwolfPrograms Just like me :P
@RedwolfPrograms The Valley of "Please use the Sandbox, it's there for a reason"
Why...why did a year old post just appear in New Posts
@RedwolfPrograms Hasn't for me
Someone just posted an answer to it
How would I change New Posts to prepend new posts, rather than append them?
Ohhhh, I know what happened
It had no answers at the time that it saw the question, so it assumed it was new
I have a better way to decide which action now though
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm going to do a bug fix, I'll just add that as an option
It now prepends by default (or should, at least), and has some bugfixes
I was too lazy to test it, so it may (but probably won't) have some bugs
4:30 PM
i wonder how easy/hard it would be to make a discord bot that reports new questions/answers
i might try it when i have the time; might just steal the websocket link from New Posts and try to get something working :P
Probably pretty easy
especially since i already have a running bot, adding a thing to monitor the websocket probably wouldn't be too complex, though i don't have much experience with websockets
What language do discord bots use? Python?
most bots use Python, JS, or C# i think
there's an API so any language that has internet access can do it
@RedwolfPrograms fortunately either I skipped the bowl or I haven't even reached it yet
4:37 PM
It's surprisingly hard to type without keys
out of my first 8 questions, five of them are deleted mostly due to either being closed as duplicate and self-deleted, closed for being bad and self-deleted, or self-deleted before anyone really noticed cuz i realized it was a duplicate that SE didn't find
the other ones have scores 8, 7, and 27, so
not very consistent :P
the Random question button shows up between Jobs and Companies under the "find a job" section; does anyone else get that or is my userscript out of date
That's a bug I need to fix
They updated the sidebar and I forgot to update it
Aside from a few small things like the requirements for teams and the due date, I wish this (10k+) had been better received because I put a ton of work into it :/
I might rewrite the controller and change some rules around, then redo it
5:42 PM
Fixed the bug in random question sidebar
6:39 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

l4m2Fastest unique finder Given 4096 16-bit integers, only four of which a unique and others appeared twice (so 2030 different integers exist). Find the four uniques. To time precisely and limit RAM usage, your program will be run on a 8051. Also we aim at the worst case, so anyone can provide test c...

For some reason, it's not showing the "Cast your vote for Best Of 20XX" posts :/
Writing a bug report now
> best-of tag not showing the "Cast your vote for" posts
Now - caird coinheringaahing (30,322)
@RedwolfPrograms Some HTML escaping errors on New Posts?
Hmm, I guess so
I didn't know they escaped HTML entities
Watch, I'll use innerHTML instead of textContent then someone'll figure out an XSS vulnerability
@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm seeing 8
maybe it fixed now so idk
7:08 PM
@hyper-neutrino That'll be my report (I tagged it with cause I think that's the most relevant)
as you can see i am very intelligent
I fixed a typo on a tag wiki edit I made ~3 minutes ago, and it counted as a second tag wiki edit. Guess there's no edit grace period for tag wikis
Along those lines it might be nice if closed/locked posts don't show up when you click on a tag. — Zoredache Aug 13 '10 at 7:09
That's a random comment I found browsing [locked] on MM, but there's no reply or anything to indicate it's been implemented
Okay, I think I've fixed the HTML entities problem in my copy.
Q: best-of tag not showing the "Cast your vote for" posts

caird coinheringaahingNavigate to the best-of tag and you'll see the following: This doesn't show any of the "Cast your vote for Best of 20XX" posts, such as this one (which should be at the top, when sorting by active. Following the search query [best-of] is:q shows all 14 posts tagged with best-of All of the missin...

7:25 PM
I forwarded this as a discussion to MM and got a downvote within 10 seconds
I'm gonna discipline them
nvm it went from 0/-1 to +1/0. probably a misclick xD
Looks like it was just a misclick, the post's showing +1/0 ninja'd
interestingly, that gives two rep notifications, +8 and +2, not just a +10, lol. i suppose that makes enough sense
7:28 PM
Looks to be but they just never told people :P
seems like it according to what catija said :P
i feel like half or more of bugs or weird behavior on SE have to do with caching lol
like the whole best of 2020 being pinned for a good three full months too many thing
Yep, just got tagged :P
@hyper-neutrino Or locked posts
so caching relating to locked posts should work perfectly cuz the bugs cancel out right xD
CGCC (and TNB) have a pretty solid history of finding "bugs" with SE and chat. example just for "The Nineteenth Byte"
Interesting that the never went anywhere
7:53 PM
well, CGCC does have just a couple of things we do differently from how most SE sites run :P
the best part is when you dig up a 5 year old bug and realize it still behaves the same way
@cairdcoinheringaahing we could always try that again [if there's community interest]
@hyper-neutrino Unfortunately, BlogOverflow's been shut down, so we'd have to do it all ourselves
i never knew that was a thing in the first place. TIL
Could we host the blog on Meta? (whatever it is?)
@NewMetaPosts Ok, so not ?
wording's unclear but looks like it's supposed to do this on main but not meta sites, except this doesn't seem to be working correctly
you love to see it
7:58 PM
I found a bug in my code editor :/
If I had a nickel everytime I pointed out a bug that should be easy to fix but Catija told me that something bigger was the problem, I'd have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it's happened twice
Wait that expression's used outside the US?
No, I'm just quoting the Doofenshmirtz meme :P
Normally I'd say pennies/pounds
that's why you start with 0 nickels?
what was the last time, the whole 1-rep thing?
8:02 PM
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI We could do it in the style of posting a question and each new entry being an answer
Would it be feasible?
Depends on how long we kept it going and how active it was
8:06 PM
@RedwolfPrograms If you actually want a good code editor, here are a few. I personally like VS Code, it can do most things for small-scale projects.
If we posted a new entry every week or so, it'd be the second most active meta question
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Problem is I'm on a chromebook
notepad is all you need
plot twist: redwolf's editor is vs code
8:07 PM
@RedwolfPrograms There are some online editors there that you access on your chromebook too
Mind you, a desktop application is best
I've used vscode in codesandbox on a chromebook
SE typically doesn't like questions with more than 30 answers (hence the warning when you post in the sandbox), but that would require 30 posts (assuming 1/week), which most blogs don't get to
I'm not sure if posting as answers to a thread or as a new question each time would make more sense
the latter would probably generate too much clutter though..
A new question would clutter meta, and be difficult to follow
8:08 PM
@RedwolfPrograms That looks cool, but here is a better alternative (still free)
Answers you can sort by oldest, and we can lock answers when a new one is posted, meaning that "sort by active" would also work for the most recent first
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Link won't work on school wifi :/
Oh great
@RedwolfPrograms Never mind, it was a rickroll
I don't trust rr.noordstar links anymore because of rickrolls :P
Wait really? First time my school's blatant censorship has actually helped :p
8:10 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing See that v
yeah. also, we could accept the most recent one each time so everyone sees the current newest one at the top even if they sort by vote (since i don't think you can sort differently between questions? granted it's not too hard to switch orderings each time)
@RedwolfPrograms You mean you don't want to hear Rick Astley's amazing music?
Not in the middle of Latin no :p
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Rephrasing (sorry to hijack): CMM: Should we have a discussion about holding a blog on meta?
we could also set up the blog not on SE so that it doesn't generate clutter and can be sorted properly, but that might create more issues than it solves, and also then the content is no longer on SE
8:13 PM
* Wezl is using an old version of babelfish, which crashes bc infinite recursion
@Wezl For translations?
@RedwolfPrograms do you do poetry? if so, look up 'Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo'
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI right, newer versions have poor support for weasels
@rak1507 Heh, I recognize pedicabo
Anyone else think it's kinda sad that the CEO of SE has 2k total rep, and has been a user for that same amount of time they've been CEO?
8:15 PM
Not sad, but insulting
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

goodguyPoor Man's DRM Write a program that only prints Welcome at the first execution and first execution only. All executions after the first execution should only print Where money. Anything is allowed as long as the following condition is met: An execution ends after the program exits. So the second ...

opens about me page, clicks google translate: "I like money"
@cairdcoinheringaahing How long have they been a CEO?
Just under 2 years now IIRC
His Meta posts definitely remind me of "I was hired as CEO to turn this company into yet another business-facing, money/ad-driven internet service" rather than "Hey, I really care about this company"
I wish SO could just split off from the rest of SE
Make SO a private company that makes a ton of money, and make SE some sort of nonprofit like Mozilla
8:19 PM
I wish that SE had a specific SO-oriented team and a "rest of the network" team
I feel like SO has grown too large as a corporation + help-site rather than actually being a "repository of Q+A content" or having a community, like SE is supposed to
@RedwolfPrograms I hear Mozilla's made some questionable decisions too
like, to some extent, it seems to me like what makes SE different from other forums is lost with SO
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI They have, yeah, but better than SO
@RedwolfPrograms Fair enough, yeah
8:20 PM
I don't get SO, it seems pretty crap for everyone involved
@rak1507 ? Not for SO
I mean for people who ask questions and also people who answer them
SO should have been frozen years ago, all new content is just dupes of old content or stuff that's too hyper-specific to be helpful
How? SO is great
There are way too many low-quality questions coming in, but it's not as if there's no new material.
The problem is that sites like CGCC don't get enough love
I feel like SO is more of a constantly flowing Q+A site as in new questions come in, get solved, the OP gets help, and it is forgotten
8:23 PM
If the question has less than 25 votes, it's going to be completely forgotten
Only if it's a question that the OP could have solved with better debugging skills
which doesn't fit with SE's philosophy that all content should be good enough to be around forever as a repository, and SO just doesn't have enough of that, which I don't think necessarily has to be bad, but it's just not quite what SE intends to be
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI Which is 99% of them
@RedwolfPrograms Hardly. Tags like python and java get tons of garbage, but that's because their communities are so big.
Well yeah, but the big communities have more people, and if they produce more garbage more garbage gets produced
8:24 PM
most SO questions are just "you have a bug because you didn't debug this part correctly", "you have a semantic issue because you didn't read the language spec for the feature you're not using right", or something similar, and of course, there are good questions that are helpful to stick around, but they get diluted by the other stuff
@cairdcoinheringaahing That's unlikely, questions with fewer votes are still linked to as duplicates, and I personally am often helped by them
TBH I wouldn't mind SE enough if they gave enough of a shit about the other 170 sites in the network
The older questions that stick around as a repository of knowledge are great and that's why almost everyone who's written code has probably looked at an SO question. But there's only so many of those that exist to be asked.
Believe it or not, we're lucky as a site. We regularly hit HNQ and get enough questions to be popular enough that SE will (from time to time) pay attention to us. There are ~150 other sites that languish in beta because of SE neglect
@RedwolfPrograms Right, but new frameworks pop up all the time, with new bugs or features that can cause confusion, and it's important that questions about those are asked.
8:27 PM
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI I agree. It's just that most questions aren't for new frameworks.
@RedwolfPrograms Yup, and those should be closed as dupes or as not being reproducible.
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI definitely, and we're not really denying that SO doesn't have important questions, it just has an extremely low signal-to-noise ratio, which is why i think it works better like how most forum sites are set up and not as much like how SE wanted to be
The problem really is that new users should be forced to read the Tour page and heavily encouraged to do as much work as possible themselves, and SO needs more curators.
also I don't think SO's bad, like I find it extremely helpful; most of the time i don't ask questions because i can just find exactly what i need by googling it and clicking on the inevitable first-result being SO
but too many people just sign up and ask a random question without spending a second figuring out how SO is actually meant to be
Yeah, I don't know where programmers would be without it :P
@hyper-neutrino I think we all agree there
8:29 PM
I don't get the 'programmers couldn't do anything without SO' stereotype/joke, personally I don't think it's ever been very helpful to me
Eternal question: How did Jeff and Joel create SO without using SO?
it's the modern day "what came before God" question :P
@rak1507 Asking questions on SO has never helped me, but googling old ones has for sure
@RedwolfPrograms even when I google things often solutions are either outdated or just unhelpful
But what I want to say is: even though there's a low signal:noise ratio on popular tags like java, less popular tags are often better (e.g. scala, a tag which I regularly answered questions on, is pretty good about this)
8:30 PM
actual documentation (or reading the damn code) is normally better
I'm going to do an interest check on hosting a CGCC blog on meta, meta question should be posting in a hour or so
@rak1507 Actual documentation is sometimes lacking, and reading the code is not very easy.
By asking a question that many future users will have, you're saving a lot of people hours of work
But yeah, I do feel like screaming "RTFM!" sometimes :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing Sorry for pulling the conversation to a tangent
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI No problem, I'm the one who brought up the CEO :P
8:35 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Wait, I didn't know the CEO was your son. Do you have any influence with him? You could use nepotism to get us what we want :P
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

goodguyTwin Quines Write a Program A such that: Program A outputs Program B. Program B outputs Program A. Program A is significantly different than Program B. code-golf quine Inspired by: Program that creates larger versions of itself (quine-variant) I am not sure how to specify "significantly different

9:15 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Out of interest, how are you finding old questions to VTC? The random questions userscript?
@OriginalOriginalOriginalVI It seems like every second link on the internet is to that song.
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

jumbotAfter deciding against my first KOTH proposal, I'm back with a second, simpler one. I appreciate any feedback :) Counting - Python 3 KOTH Have you ever tried to count to 100 in an online forum or comment thread? It normally goes something like: 1 >2 >>3 >>>4 >>>>69 xD xD the point being that som...

PSA to anyone who uses the mobile app for notifications: soon you won't have to
(It's only rn, Des says they're looking at doing it "eventually")
9:34 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes
9:48 PM
Q: Should we start a blog?

caird coinheringaahing7 years ago, we asked about having a site blog. The idea sort of just stopped and was never followed through. Unfortunately, since then, BlogOverflow (the site supposed to host site blogs) has been shutdown. I brought up the blog in chat, and it was suggested by a couple of users that we give it ...

@NewMetaPosts +3 on both Q and A with 6 views (5 of whom could vote) is probably the best I've ever done on a meta question :P
Check again
One of those 6 views forgot to vote
Well, the view count increased by one as well :P
Also, it felt weird saying that we should have a blog. Blogs have always felt like a mid-2000s internet thing that have kinda died out in favour of video/sound versions (vlogs/podcasts). Not that it's a bad idea given that SE is primarily text-based, just... odd
So where would we be hosting it?
Here somewhere or externally?
@Lyxal That's literally the follow-up question in the meta post :P
I've suggested as a meta question where each entry is an answer
10:09 PM
I accidentally opened one less chat today, and I am a more productive person for it :)
@hyper-neutrino @JoKing Now that it's April, this is the latest we've gotten into the year without being refreshed (ignoring the graduation bug). I don't want to start a meta question about it first, but could you guys poke the CMs to see what's happening?
10:25 PM
wow, wiktionary says golfiest is a word
but it gets its meaning wrong :(
10:52 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing nothing stopping us from organizing a podcast :P (other than logistics and the other things that might make a blog fail anyway)
I support doing it on Github (either as markdown pages on a repo or a github pages thing), I don't think the Stack Exchange format would work very well for a blog sort of thing. Github would provide familiar markdown, no need to sign up or pay, no need to pay for any sort of hosting, etc.
i'll poke the CMs after dinner when i get on my desktop
@hyper-neutrino cough cough
@hyper-neutrino No need (sorry for not searching before pingin): meta.stackexchange.com/q/360627/355458
Hearing other CGCC people's voices would be weird
10:56 PM
I'm used to the only sound y'all make being the ungodly screech of the ping noise
NGL tho, all of the voices in the first episode of the podcast sound kinda like I expected
Not meaning this in a mean way, but they all sound exactly like most 20 something US guys I've met :/
I didn't really expect American accents, except for Doorknob
I knew Mego's in Texas and DJ lives in Colorado, wasn't sure about Nick
Wait really?
I think Doorknob's in Texas too
That's a lot of Texans on one site
I would love for there to be a blog, podcast, anything really. Bringing the community together more would be nice.
@RedwolfPrograms I believe, at one point, Dennis was the only mod not in the US
I think Alex, Doorknob, DJ, Mego and Dennis was the mod team just before Monica got fired, and those first 4 all live in the US
@RedwolfPrograms Agreed. It definitely feels like the community was closer back in 2016 than now :(
@RedwolfPrograms The major problem I have with an external host is that things die off here easily enough. Hosting it off the site is unlikely to keep it going more than a couple of posts
11:11 PM
I'd prefer a new question for each post rather than an answer on an existing question if we do it on site.
We could just create a tag for it, and that gives you just as many (if not more) ways to sort it
Plus it means the title of the currently (presumably) hot and/or featured blog post would change when a new one is posted, so people can know when there's a new one
Should I post that as an answer on the meta post?
Yeah, it'd be good to get multiple opinions
I should probably work on Ash now, all I've managed to complete today is documenting half of one of the 256 operators :p
11:27 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing oh yeah i forgot about that :P
also no worries about the ping
11:51 PM
Lots of vim answers recently
...considering we haven't actually had that much lotm activity in general
it actually is kind of shocking
Oh yeah, it's LotM :|
Vim is surprisingly cool
You guys aren't the one's getting notified every time someone edits the "Answers in Vim" post :P
Let me post another Vim answer, then :P
11:59 PM
Combine that with the fact that the app tells me I have a notification, but doesn't show edit notifications in the menu, and you've got someone who isn't a fan of Vim :P
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