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12:00 PM
Probably people that don't pass the Turing tests
Interpersonal Skills -> walking through a minefield
@SurajRao yes, but still, don't use "it" unless that person specifically requests that
@Cashbee I never asked.
@sphennings good call
@Cashbee sticking to they
12:00 PM
@SurajRao wait, you didn't know? I mean, it's commonsense stuff
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ didnt know about the dehumanizing part
Honestly using it makes me very uncomfortable. Because of what it signals to people who aren't aware of the preference it's use.
@sphennings I agree with that, it can seem very rude.
as I said walking through a minefield.. Crossing signals and escalation begins
Now I recall Gollum
12:02 PM
Note the above strong response to not use it as a pronoun for a human. By using it I'd be identifying myself as a bad ally.
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ my precious
You can call me "it"
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I'll remember that.
I'm a dodecahedrane now, so
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ and you can call me "maybe"
12:04 PM
@SurajRao in general They is an acceptable singular pronoun when you aren't sure someone's gender. If someone has expressed a preference go with that.
@Cashbee maybe
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ yes?
Maybe maybe isn't a pronoun, but I'll refer to you maybe as maybe, as it may be
@Cashbee I was testing. Maybe
@sphennings We're currently having a stormy law debate about singular writing in my country (like, people can't accept the idea of adding an "e" at the end of words to include women). I think the existence of such pronoun (i.e. an equivalent to "they") would be very useful. Unfortunately, our nouns and adjectives are gendered, so it's a bit more complicated than that.
Ha, now that's maybe a mess
12:07 PM
@avazula french?
@Cashbee Bingo!
Bingo isn't a language
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Nor maybe a pronoun
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ yes it is xD
Since the flag fest worked so well, do we have 3 4kers here with delete votes to use?
12:09 PM
@Cashbee (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@sphennings, @avazula, and @Tinkeringbell?
@avazula That sounds complicated. The singular they has been around for a long time in English. Though attempts at language reform in the 1800s tried to remove it and standardize on he as the default singular pronoun.
@Mithrandir Mine are all consumed.
12:10 PM
@Cashbee (/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻
@avazula :(
@Mithrandir I have some still. I think.
I linked three answers above that all have pending flags.
I'm on mobile though so it will have to wait.
@Mithrandir I have a lot of delete votes, but I will not help you
12:12 PM
(In case it wasn't obvious, I'm trying to get as many flags handled without mod involvement as possible.)
@Mithrandir no
Hmm, maybe @EmC is available
@Mithrandir Can people see your messages when out of the chatroom?
@avazula Yes. It will show up in their inbox.
@avazula it'll ping them
12:14 PM
Why would those three answers warrant deletion?
That is, appear in their inbox
@AJ @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Noice.
@doppelgreener IKR, IPS is hella weird
@doppelgreener They don't provide any reasoning/explanation for their advice and/or aren't actually answering the question.
They look like they're not great answers, but they're valid answers. Bad answers are an important feature of our Q&A system too.
12:15 PM
Or Mith is. But that's not news
@Mithrandir flag as NAA, let the community review queue handle it. Deleting site content via chat cabal is inadvisable.
We have a policy that answers can't just say "do this" without explaining why.
@Mithrandir I thought attempt at answer nullifies nullifying
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ wat
@Mithrandir if it tries to answer the question, it's not NAA
Not deleteable
Downvotable, sure. But not deleteable
12:17 PM
Not on IPS.
On Soviet IPS, answers delete you?
@doppelgreener They've gone through the queue and they still have flags pending on them, which means that either the mods are going to have to deal with it or users VTDing.
It's very easy to get VLQ privileges on this site. One popular answer on an HNQ post is enough. Many people who have access to the queues don't any idea of the existing meta discussions about site policy.
@Mithrandir That means the flags aren't valid and they're not NAA and shouldn't be deleted, meaning coordinating for them to get deleted anyway would not be appropriate
Let the mods deal with those and/or allow them to age away
12:25 PM
They weren't declined or disputed... Just... passed through and still pending.
Anyway, I don't care enough to argue about it, so I'll drop it.
I agree with answer, and would like to give an alternative to the example. In India do you actually owe them an explanation (I.E. your phone troubles previously)? You said you do not wish to explain personal reasons. Why not explain that you do not like phones? How I explain this is to say "I view mobile phones as human leashes.", and I even leave my phone at home openly to prove my disdain if I am being social. btw I have a company phone, and it has been made clear that for this I am expected to -always- be available, so they are used to control people's time and lives in some cases. — NOP 10 secs ago
#9861 NOP (101 rep) | A: How can I convincingly communicate to a friend that I don't have a 'personal' mobile number? (score: 62) | posted 76 days ago by Spagirl (9593 rep) | edited 75 days ago by Anne Daunted (8686 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
@Mithrandir yeah, i think in trying to address those you're losing sight of the importance of community oversight & due process, in order to achieve the goal of reducing moderation workload. those NAA flags being not even disputed or declined or validated means nobody reviewing it feels it's a problem enough to remove, which means we probably shouldn't try to remove it anyway.
@doppelgreener That would mean revisiting a whole bunch of old meta-posts though...
Like, I know you get this stuff -- you're a competent and experienced user and a moderator in your own right -- I'm saying this because I think you got distracted away from it by other pressing issues.
It sounds like your friend may be struggling with some mental health issues. Normally those issues can't be fixed by simply choosing to not be moody. Are you wanting to suggest to your friend that they seek help for what could be a mental health issue? — sphennings 9 secs ago
#13315 sphennings (5190 rep) | Q: How to deal with moody friend? (score: 0) | posted 55 minutes ago by Daniel (2608 rep) | edited 15 minutes ago by Daniel (2608 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]
12:35 PM
@Tinkeringbell Do you have any in mind? This may be a learning experience for me in IPS's practices
Q: Should we be more strict about one-line answers?

A JThere have been a lot of one or two line answers (very brief) on the main site. Most of them, almost all of them IMO, only suggest one or two things to do and never explain why they would work. Though, such answers might be correct, but since sometimes they get upvoted and stick around longer, it...

Q: What do we expect from an answer on Interpersonal Skills?

JADWe are trying our very best to remove low quality answers from our site. But there are no clear guidelines on what we, as a community, consider to be a good answer. So let's try and make a few guidelines on how to write answers on IPS questions and what every answer should contain or discuss. W...

Q: Should we be deleting old answers that don't meet our new standards?

Arwen UndómielA couple months ago, we had a discussion about Should we be more strict about one-line answers?. The verdict was that yes, we should be enforcing stricter standards on the answers on this site. Great! That means that we can keep our quality high, and new answers have been deleted accordingly. Bu...

Q: What do we delete, and what not?

TinkeringbellI had an interesting chat with @Catija yesterday. She stated: This is something I've argued with the Cooking mods for over a year. If an answer has even a whiff of an actual answer, they decline NAA flags. So, with my time spent there, I have to decide whether I think we should follow them o...

Q: Can answers be off topic? - How to deal with answers that address legal issues

CatijaWe have had a couple of questions that ask about ways to deal with interactions with others. These questions are perfectly on topic here because they are asking about interpersonal issues. Sometimes, these questions may have solutions that are less about what is "polite" or "rude" or some other ...

Those three answers linked above look bad, but having them present & downvoted in their badness would be instructive and helpful in its own right. ("This answer is bad. Do not use this answer. Do not provide answers like this answer.") They also seem like they pass those guidelines (which I'm still getting across), they're just low quality.
I completely agree with removing one-liners.
interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/10884/… is essentially a one liner. It also doesn't address the question asked and isn't a frame challenge because it doesn't suggest an alternative way of looking at it.
interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/13210/… is a "try this" answer; it just says "you could do this" without explaining why their solution would work. It also contains no references or backup.
(you have no idea how much i wish i could actually downvote IPS posts)
12:42 PM
The third was deleted, so I can't look at it now, but from what I remember it was also a "try this" answer.
@doppelgreener grins that would probably be useful
@Mithrandir Non IPS solution actually.
Just like their other post from a week ago that just popped up in the First Posts queue :/
Anyway, we have meta consensus on deleting stuff. We've got strict policies. Unfortunately, lots of people have access to the review queues but are not familiar with the policies, so it gets very difficult to actually delete stuff without chat or custom moderator flags.
@Mithrandir Don't forget that the top answer here actually suggests keeping certain kinds of stuff...
@Mithrandir ..you rang? :)
wow it's a busy morning in chat!
(now I'll be AFK for a bit. Have to get ready - it's Memorial Day for soldiers and terror victims and I volunteered to stand next to a flag for ten minutes)
12:47 PM
@Mithrandir Good luck! Thanks for the effort :)
@EmC Had to make up for a very silent night ;)
@Tinkeringbell all is calm, all is bright? :p
@EmC Exactly ;)
Which is kinda nice for a change ;)
Q: How To Respond to Rude Cashier

Artie LadieOnce in a while I get coffee from nearby shop. Lot of times, the ladies at the counter are rude --- especially to me because I look like a soft target. Really, I am not confrontational unless I am at the end of my rope (on a side note, my co-workers were surprised when I was assertive and nearl...

^^ lol, I'm sure I'd get answer banned if I posted how I'd respond
@EmC It's evening here, so it's not bright. :P
1:01 PM
@AJ Where are you? :)
@avazula India. :)
@AJ Ha, you're in the future ! ;)
@avazula LOL.
@avazula based on some of her other posts, I believe artie ladie is from India and living/working in the US, please correct me if I am wrong. — Link0352 33 secs ago
exactly the point of the current meta Q
Q: Trying to reconnecting with childhood friend

MikailoDuring elementary school one of my close friend groups was composed of three persons all living next to each other. Myself (m/22), another guy(m/22) with whom we are still best friends and hang out everyday and this girl(f/22) who moved away after elementary and we both soon lost touch with her a...

1:09 PM
@Cashbee I couldn't agree more. But even if she used indian-culture tags or sth if they'd exist, it doesn't solve the problem which is that she didn't give that context in the question
@avazula with the solution proposed by oldPadawan, she would (ideally) have used the tags and , which would resolve the irritation.
Now that I say this, I agree with oldPadawan that having country tags and culture tags is best
@Cashbee Would it though? That assumes the cashier is Indian as well ;)
@Cashbee And to you, this would have been enough to avoid her mentioning her origin and living place in the post?
@Tinkeringbell >.< true dat
Having read those comments, I'm curious if the 'usual' behavior for a cashier isn't based on Indian culture
1:15 PM
@avazula what NO i never said that
@Cashbee I think we didn't understand each other haha :)
I may have poorly expressed my opinion, which is that it's too bad she used the tags but didn't make the connection with them in the post.
@avazula no matter how you tagged your Q, don't leave out anything in the question body "because you have the tag already"
@Cashbee That's exactly what I think, thanks. I asked her in a comment
the question body always has to include the whole question with all important information. The tags are only meta-information about the question to help categorizing them. The same with the question title: it only sums up your body. The actual question still has to be present in the body.
@EmC yeah, I had been looking for delvotes
@avazula I added India because of link to clip from movie. Plus I'm second generation, if that is relevant — Artie Ladie 26 secs ago
1:28 PM
Why are we posting replies to avazula in here?
@Tinkeringbell I have no idea.
Because we have to give @avazula a hectic day in chat, of course
@Mithrandir It's the last time I come, I swear
Holy macaroni, I'm having such a bad time here ;)
@avazula we'd better get the glue, then
@Mithrandir You only want me to stay because you care about my flags
1:32 PM
Oooooh! :P
I'm going to grab popcorn now ;P
@Tinkeringbell Aren't you at work? Isn't popcorn a bit loud for open spaces?
@avazula I'm actually at home, and supposed to be studying. Although I think I already know my stuff, so I'm taking a break till dinner :P
@Tinkeringbell You lucky! Popcorn's the best.
@avazula Hahaha, I'm not actually going to have any ;) I'll be going out for dinner tonight, and I want to save space :P
I'm puzzled though: I thought you were a SW engineer too, did you get back to studies?
Haha, I'm thinking about a question for IPS, "Is it rude to ask a stranger what they're doing for a living". IPS, what have you done of me?
1:37 PM
@avazula As a SW engineer, you'll always have to study! I'm learning a new programming language on company time :D
@Tinkeringbell That's so cool!
I'm already fighting to get the right to working remotely one out of 5 days, but I'll keep that other fight in mind ahah
@avazula Haha :) Well, my company isn't big on the working remote either, depending on the team you're working with. I never struggled with that, I didn't mind having everyone in one place so I could ask them all questions like 'WHY WOULD YOU EVER DO THAT!'
@avazula hides
@Tinkeringbell It reminds me of the versioning softwares, that allows you to blame when someone pushed some pretty bad code. I love it: "you've written broken code! I BLAME YOU!"
@Mithrandir starts counting
@avazula We had GitHub for that ;) So, look up who's to blame, and then shout at em :P
1:42 PM
@Tinkeringbell This is a part of programming I'm lovin
Things were a little harder until we implemented a versioning system on the buildserver as well... I can't count the times people meddled with the settings just to have their builds succeed...
@Tinkeringbell Sounds messy and difficult
@Tinkeringbell which language are you learning?
@avazula Meh, it apparently was quite easy ;)
@avazula Magik... proprietary GE stuff.
@Tinkeringbell Still oriented-object, haha :)
@avazula Yeah, I like those languages ;)
1:46 PM
@Tinkeringbell I do/did both OO for my work and non-OO for my studies, I don't have a preference, I think they serve very different purposes. On the other hand, I'd be completely confused by proprietary languages. I'm fond of open source and freewares ahah
@Mithrandir And you haven't even mentioned a skill
Put the culture in the question and leave it out of the tags
I haven't even written the question yet :P. I was planning it in my head.
@Mithrandir Let's play a round of guess the question based on tags XD :P
@Mithrandir Only by the tags it seems quite interesting
1:48 PM
Or tag-bingo :P
I'm guessing and would probably be applicable as well? :P
@Mithrandir Since when is etiquette impolite? :P
"How can I refuse teenagers to put etiquettes on the forehead of my neighbors from both America and Eastern Europe?"
Unless you're deliberately violating of course
@avazula ._.
1:49 PM
@Tinkeringbell your turn to guess!
@avazula Nah... I'm outta inspiration. Although I do have a BINGO!
@Tinkeringbell Ooh, what new language are you learning?
"Is there any specific Russian etiquette for declining offers of food while visiting someone?" would probably be my title.
9 mins ago, by Tinkeringbell
@avazula Magik... proprietary GE stuff.
oh, I must have missed that
1:53 PM
@IPSCommentBot this can be deleted
@Rainbacon Don't worry, I was just too lazy to type it again :P
@Mithrandir aren't you only able to have up to 5 tags in any single question?
@Mithrandir24601 'xactly
@IPSCommentBot are there enough people to flag delete this?
2:13 PM
@Mithrandir turns out yep :D
speaking of delete votes, if anyone has some left I just rediscovered this q hanging around interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/11781/…
Yeah, that's probs a good one to get off the site
Don't forget to check out interpersonal.stackexchange.com/…
@Mithrandir that page confused me for ages, until I discovered the hovertext on the numbers in parenthesis
2:36 PM
how do delete votes work on positively-scored answers? some of them show up on the mod tools page but there's no delete vote link or even count
@EmC That probably means they were upvoted after the delete votes were cast. Maybe they were edited into shape?
@Tinkeringbell oh, that would make sense. do the delete votes still exist, like if it were downvoted again they'd reappear?
@EmC Yes
@Tinkeringbell aha, thanks :)
You're welcome :)
3:04 PM
@Mithrandir you didn't find a way to formulate your question?
I'm waiting a bit, for reasons.
ok :)
Didn't know we have interpersonal SE as well.
H'o everyone o/
@TheLittleNaruto Hi there!
So what's hot question for today ?
@avazula Heya o/
3:12 PM
@TheLittleNaruto I guess this one, since it's the top HNQ question for IPS right now: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/13282/…
Hello :)
@TheLittleNaruto Actually it's pretty calm today
@Tinkeringbell Wow, I should remain modest
@Tinkeringbell Nice
@Tinkeringbell o/
@avazula Hahaha ;) Ever visited the Hot Network Questions list?
Yup. Don't post often but got in it every time. Seems like boyfriend and mean superior is a hot shot for HNQ ;)
If anyone finds a question with delete votes without a comment suggesting how to improve the question, Please add a comment yourself. Many of the complaints that new users have about this site stem from opaque community moderation.
3:18 PM
9 messages moved to Trash
I'll introduce myself,
I am TheLittleNaruto. I am from Village Hidden in the leaf.
@sphennings Roger that. When I cast for deleting there's already a comment most of the time. I'd add another only if I think that the previous comment does not cover all the problems raised by the answer.
Time to take cab, leaving for home.
@TheLittleNaruto Welcome here. And so you're quite active on Hinduism, I don't get that wrong?
Will join the chat soon o/
3:20 PM
@TheLittleNaruto Bye :)
@avazula Yeah I am quite active there and also on SO. 😀
If the user is relatively new, and you're casting the final delete vote, it might be a good idea to add a sentence explaining that if they edit the question it is possible to get the question undeleted.
ok later o/
@sphennings Before today I didn't know how many casts were needed to close. But everytime I'm casting for closing and there's no comment, I add one.
3:22 PM
2 hours ago, by avazula
"How can I refuse teenagers to put etiquettes on the forehead of my neighbors from both America and Eastern Europe?"
genius, can I ask that question? :D
@sphennings But I agree it's super de-motivating for new users to see most of their actions deleted, closed or downvoted.
@Cashbee Go for it! I'll definitely upvote ;)
@Tinkeringbell be polite, thorough, and mention something good about it
@Mithrandir Meh... That's basics, but there's more to it ;)
I guess the other site of the world is waking up too... comments are starting to pick up again.
then we should start picking up comments again
@Cashbee You're already ready for another flagging fest? :p
3:32 PM
@avazula I missed the last one, was working
@Cashbee Too bad. I get why you're impatient now!
@Cashbee I've got 18 for you
If this is indeed sarcasm: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/13221/… it can go :)
gimme those flags flags flags I want them flags flags nowwww
@Mithrandir is on fire!
3:34 PM
@Tinkeringbell I don't think its sarcasm
The Awkward Silence never knows rest
@Cashbee This is surprising because Catija clearly stated what options are possible to disagree
yessss flaaaaaags
3:38 PM
@TheLittleNaruto Yes we have.
@TheLittleNaruto o/
@Tinkeringbell @avazula You should visit HNQ list. It does let you know many interesting questions across the network.
@TheLittleNaruto I think I know you. I just don't remember. Your name sounds familiar.
@AJ Actually I'm using the side bar, which offers a bunch of them
@AJ And there's way too much stuff going on here to be distracted by it for now ;)
alright everyone, have a nice rest of the day!
@Cashbee Bye!
3:41 PM
@Mithrandir no time for those now, but i did the rest
@Tinkeringbell wait, I am catching up. ;)
Alright. Later!
Ok. Done!
@avazula I got into a slight argument with an IPS mod about the number of flags I raise, so I'm attempting to get comments deleted without requiring mod intervention and to lower their load.
@Mithrandir can't flag cause I am on phone.
@Mithrandir Good
3:46 PM
@Mithrandir Oh sorry, I hope I didn't offended you with my joke.
@AJ You can flag from a phone. I do it all the time ;)
@avazula nah
@Mithrandir I should admit I'm a bit surprised (I obviously don't know everything about this SE functioning) but, is it like mods don't like to have so many comments flagged?
@Mithrandir I know I can flag, but I can't find that comment in the pile of comments and phone browser doesn't highlight it like it does on computer.
@avazula some do some don't
@avazula It's that there are essentially two mods and if I raise a hundred flags a day they'll get overwhelmed. Hopefully some new mods will be coming on board to help soon, but until that happens, HDE and Cat are crazy busy.
@Mithrandir Which explains why they don't post/answer as much as before...
3:53 PM
Q: Friend wants rare vinyl record collection back after 7 years

SolomonAbout seven (7) years ago a older friend of mine Craig was having living and financial problems , I think he was getting some type of public assistance after he had to move out of his old family house after it was sold . I'd known him since I was 19 and am in my early forties now . I was a up and...

@ExtrovertedMainMan Wow, this'll be tough to enhance and make it on scope.
@avazula agreed. It's pretty off topic right now
I'm waiting for IPS Comment Bot to show my "please edit your question so it won't get closed" comment as "chatty" ahah
I gattago. Bye everyone!
4:10 PM
@avazula If you're going to be writing lots of comments suggesting improvements magic links make it easier to direct people to helpful resources.
@Mithrandir what is your reasoning behind flagging the link to the related travel.se question?
I guess Extroverted Main Man doesn't pick up migrated questions
4:27 PM
Q: How to tell the difference between flirting and friendliness?

Emily CampbellI'm in my late teens, and my mom is close friends with my best friend's mom, so she knows my best friend - "Abigail" - quite well. My mother thinks that "Abigail" is "boy-crazy." For my part, I think "Abigail" is just extremely extroverted, and I see little-to-no difference between the way she ac...

@EmC Oh. Hmm. Someone removed the second link to the Travel.SE that had been worded in a better way. :/
@Mithrandir ah, so it wasn't that comments like that are bad in general?
Not at all.
ok, cool :)
@Rainbacon the mod that migrated that has 3k rep here, that's a little disappointing :/
@EmC I agree, that's very disappointing
5:21 PM
Q: Should I reintroduce myself in an email to someone I met a year ago?

EmKayDeeAbout a year ago, I did an informational interview with a friend of a friend. We connected on LinkedIn shortly after, and I did a basic follow-up "thanks for meeting with me" email, but we haven't had any contact since then. I'm now planning to apply to a position in the same department she wo...

@TheLittleNaruto No, I am not.
@AJ \©/
@AJ Oh ok! Then we might have interacted on SO.
5:47 PM
Q: Should "Is this polite?" questions be on topic?

BlackThornOccasionally people ask questions like: Is it polite if I do/say X? Sometimes these questions are closed (the reasons for closure are often varied) and sometimes they are left open. In my mind, these two example questions are very similar; they both ask if a certain action is polite, and t...

6:12 PM
So the allow to talk in chat thing works now?
6:24 PM
What a headache
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ The comment bot?
Hey @Loong. I always knew your interpersonal skills were lacking :p
@Rainbacon no, the amount of bullsh€t on the site
That's not a particularly nice thing to say
@Rainbacon I mean all the chatty comments
6:26 PM
Then it would be better to say that in the first place
@Loong was that a sigh of relief, or pain?
That was a sigh of flags
@Rainbacon well, when I'm saying "what a headache" after IPS comment bot posts chatty comments, I mean they're the headache
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ a sigh of me
@Loong that's, descriptive
That escalated quickly
6:50 PM
Reading some meta, you've done a fine job of restricting site scope. I envy you @Cat
In less than . . . Ugh . . . Fewer than 500 questions, even
@Tinkeringbell How do you say "thanks/thank you" in Dutch?
Google gives me 3 different translations

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