5:18 AM
Hyperef is well known as finkicy right?
Always has been, always will be, right?
My habit has been to avoid using it, because it will break things in unexpected ways because of odd things like a link being spread across two pages plus phase of moon causing an error,
then renenable it in the final version and fix problems then.

6:00 AM
Daylight saving time... It will take me a while to grasp it again...

6:15 AM
@PauloCereda Oooh are you already awake?

@CarLaTeX Shaky bus woes today. :) I am awake since 3:30 my time...

@PauloCereda you should not if you are still ill, take care of yourself!

@CarLaTeX Thank you! <3

6:51 AM
yesterday, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
Oct 11 at 16:44, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
Sep 28 at 15:56, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
I could go on....
@LyndonWhite not necessarily
@LyndonWhite not necessarily

Really? You mean it is common for people to use it without issue?

@LyndonWhite it depends, it is possible to get some changes and/or incompatibilities with some packages so some people would advise loading it early so you don't get surprises at the end
@LyndonWhite well yes that's common of course many templates for thesis etc just routinely load it and users just assume links will work. It may have been that the package authors had fun making things work with or without hyperref but for most of the major packages the issues are more or less understood and can be arranged not to bother end users.
@LyndonWhite that said if the initial design of latex hadn't pre-dated the internet hyperref wouldn't exist and hyper linking would be more tightly integrated into the core code, but history is history.

Oct 11 at 16:46, by David Carlisle
Sep 10 at 12:03, by David Carlisle
@HaraldHanche-Olsen do you ever get a feeling of déjà vu in this chat room?

@DavidCarlisle thanks

@LyndonWhite do you use pdflatex or latex+dvips ? (more issues with breaking links in the latter)

7:03 AM
The former
or lualatex

7:38 AM
@egreg Good morning, I apologize to you mainly but I wanted to help your colleague. I just removed the post correctly.
@egreg I hope you read my message and accept my apologies.

8:21 AM
@Sebastiano You didn't need to remove the post, just to cite the source.

5 hours later…
1:07 PM
@DavidCarlisle I think I am wrong about my last question. The example i posted in InDesign doesnt use letterspacing, when I add it now, it's not pretty
Or maybe I havent found yet how to do it properly.

@alfred I see letterspacing on newspapers and it's really awful; on the other hand, they don't have much time for finding better line breaks by editing a paragraph or doing other tricks. I'd find it unacceptable in a printed book.

I tried +/-3%, but no, I think it's a bad idea too.

1:37 PM
Quack from SP!

1:53 PM
@PauloCereda I recommended arara: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/396378/…

@UlrikeFischer anyone can make a mistake

@UlrikeFischer awwwww <3
@DavidCarlisle oh :(

@DavidCarlisle my comments only have features.
3

@UlrikeFischer good plan

1 hour later…
3:09 PM
Suppose I have \def\foo#1!#2{#1 and #2} is there any way to specify the delimiter (in this case !) with a macro?

@AlanMunn yes

8 hours ago, by David Carlisle
yesterday, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are mean

@AlanMunn oi I was producing tested code!
\def\wibble{?}
\expandafter\def\expandafter\foo\expandafter#\expandafter1\wibble#2{#1 and #2}

\show\foo
> \foo=macro:
#1?#2->#1 and #2.

@DavidCarlisle Oh, sorry, I thought you'd joined the ranks of the pragmatically uncooperative. :)

@AlanMunn you are mistaking me for @egreg
@AlanMunn actually as a linguist I assumed you wanted an answer to the question "is there a way" as otherwise you would have asked "what is the way" :-)

3:15 PM
@DavidCarlisle Thanks. I knew that I needed to do some \expandafters but the one between the # and 1 was what I didn't figure out.
@DavidCarlisle Nah, I'm all for pragmatics.

@AlanMunn people often expect that #1 is one token, but it's two:-)

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that was my implicit assumption I guess.
@DavidCarlisle BTW, \wibble? What happened to \zzz?

@AlanMunn just showing versatility

@DavidCarlisle :)

3:33 PM
\def\0#1{\def\foo##1#1##2{##1 and ##2}}
\0?
\show\foo
\bye
@DavidCarlisle Simpler ↑↑↑

@HaraldHanche-Olsen The expected input should be \0\wibble

@AlanMunn I reverted to zzz in my latest answer on site.

@egreg \expandafter\0\wibble will work

\def\1#1{\def\foo##1#1##2{##1 and ##2}}
\def\0{\expandafter\1}
\0\wibble
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ^^^^^

@egreg pffffttt…

3:52 PM
@egreg @HaraldHanche-Olsen This is a case where the simplification seems more opaque to me than @DavidCarlisle 's string of \expandafters. But maybe I need to digest it more.

@AlanMunn bon appétit!
@AlanMunn Think of \0 (in my original version) as a template for the definition of \foo, where you just need to supply the separator character as #1. Yes, the double ## take a bit of getting used to, but personally, I find it easier to follow than a long string of \expandafters.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, I see that now. (The double ## wasn't the problem.)

@AlanMunn you could use @HaraldHanche-Olsen's version without doubling the ## in the body of the definition, if that is clearer. (at some point @egreg is going to point out that xparse has functions to do this built in:-)

4:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle But then I'll have to use Google Translate, and we know how that will work. :)

@DavidCarlisle Here
\def\definedelimitedcommand#1#2#3{%
% #1 is the command to define, #2 the delimiter, #3 the replacement text
\toks0={#3}%
\begingroup\edef\x{\endgroup
\def\noexpand#1####1#2####2{\the\toks0}%
}\x
}

\def\wibble{?}

\definedelimitedcommand{\foo}{\wibble}{#1 and #2}

\show\foo
> \foo=macro:
#1?#2->#1 and #2.

4:22 PM
@egreg I was thinking of:
\def\1#1{\def\fooo##1#1##2}
\def\0{\expandafter\1}
\0\wibble{#1 and #2}

\show\fooo
@AlanMunn successo garantito

@egreg Ooooh! ####! Simpler and simpler!

4:40 PM
@egreg I like this one.
Thanks everyone, this has been very instructive.

5:06 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I guess @DavidCarlisle could easily go with ################

2 hours later…
6:58 PM
@DavidCarlisle I am in the shaky bus right now, playing a Mario RPG game on my 3DS. At some point someone just called the protagonist "mean". For a moment, I thought I was in charted territory. :)

@PauloCereda did you see above the bad effect you have had on @AlanMunn ?

@DavidCarlisle oi I am a naive and friendly duck
@DavidCarlisle did you prepare a talk for UK-TUG? :)
You could talk about pizza diversity. :)

7:16 PM
@PauloCereda some maths, two possible toppings each of which can be on or off, so four possible pizzas, base, ham, pineapple or ham-and-pineapple
@JoachimWuttke One shouldn't rely on “experimental” packages for work that's supposed to be “forever”. — egreg 7 hours ago
@egreg you mean like expl3? or use of a 0.x beta release of bibtex?

8:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle I'm Italian, for us “temporary” means “eternal”
2

@egreg you'll fit in well in the latex3 team then, we have similarly long schedules.

1 hour later…
9:18 PM
@DavidCarlisle Don't we like \expandafter? \def\TXT#1{\expandafter\immediate\expandafter\write\expandafter\tempfile\expand‌​after{\detokenize{#1}}}

Home sweet home. :)

@PauloCereda :)

@yo' <3

9:36 PM
what's the opposite of \enlargethispage{-\baselineskip}, I'm getting some strange results
when I use it in the previous pages, the text in the last page gets bigger

10:06 PM
nm

@alfred Sorry, but what do you mean by “the text in the last page gets bigger”?

there is more text in the last page. I thought enlarge meant the page gets bigger so it fits more text, pulling it from the end

@alfred when you "enlarge" by a negative value (-\baselineskip) the page gets shorter.

@alfred As a general rule there should be the same amount of enlargement on both pages of a spread.

@UlrikeFischer, thanks. I think I understood what happened. I used it between paragraphs deleting them and pulling the text. So I thought it had the opposite effect like \enlargethispage{\baselineskip}
@egreg grazie, provero a trovare dove finiscono le pagine.

10:31 PM
7

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Palindromes done properly:-)

@DavidCarlisle how long have you been luring people into downvoting you to make you 4mod10 ? :)

@yo' I had a lucky downvote when I was at around 390k and I chose not to reach rep cap that day so that it pushed me on to a 4-9 cycle:-)

@DavidCarlisle oh yeah, you've got rep cap to control the cycle! (unless you receive a downvote at 23:59 Zulu of course)

10:42 PM
@yo' then you delete the answer:-)
I wonder if @barbarabeeton wants a tugboat article on management of rep points to maximise palindromic totals
2

@DavidCarlisle you could give a talk at TUG 2018. :)

@egreg btw, can you print pages on spreads ?

11:09 PM
@alfred you can use various tools (or the pdfpages latex packaage) to arrange 2 or 4 or whatever arrangement you want logical pages on one sheet

@alfred you mean handouts? well, most commonly pgfpages is used.

I started reading the pdfpages doc, and will continue tomorrow
the printer guy will do a test in a few days to see if it's ok

@alfred don't confuse pdfpages and pgfpages, these are two completely different packages!!!

@alfred or look at pdfjam (which is a collection of commandline tools which use pdfpages internally)

PDFjam is linux, I have CygWin but I'm not very comfortable with it
@yo' so it's pdfpages I should look into

11:21 PM
@alfred GEE! pGfpages
Actually, you usually need both as pgfpages allows you to setup different logical and physical pages (to handle the 4on1 and similar layouts) and pdfpages is used to include the PDF you are manipulating (if your document is compiled separately and then rearranged)

you werent joking. this looks good \pgfpagesuselayout{2 on 1}[a4paper,border shrink=5mm] I have to change the a4paper to 210 280mm though
do you know if there is a way to customize the size ?
I see he usually understands a3 a4 a5 ..