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12:13 AM
I kind of wish I had a better idea of how to ask questions that push the scope envelope.
@HDE226868 so I have some more ideas about back it up; either you'll find them helpful or you won't.
@Hamlet I'm all ears.
You need to follow three steps to have a back it up policy.
1. You need to decide how you want to apply that policy to the culture of this site. Meta is useful for this.
Whatever philosophy you come up with needs to be simple and easy to understand.
2. You need to write some answers that exemplify how the back it up rule should be applied to this site. This is so you have examples of what a good answer looks like to show people.
3. You need to start leaving constructive comments on and downvoting answers that don't meet the back it up philosophy. This will be a lot of answers.
This is where it's important for whatever your specific version of the back it up policy to be simple; if it's not simple, the comments you leave wont make sense.
Point to add: when you write answers, they need to be on a diverse range of questions - not just particular topics
If you do this, you'll alienate a big chunk of the community members of this site. If you don't do this, this site won't make the internet a better place.
And doing this requires leadership. So people need to step up.
12:20 AM
@Hamlet (Starred, by the way.) I think you're right, and I think that applies to quite a few differently possible policies for anyone site - though especially this. IMHO, I think your second step is the most important. It's best to lead by example.
That (and Step 3) are how we made the policy on Worldbuilding work a little - certainly more than when it was first conceived and implemented.
@HDE226868 I did a bad job of encouraging a back it up policy on Mythology; but I'm doing a much better job on Literature -- still not perfect or even good but better.
Now, that's a minor change compared to the issue here, of course.
@Hamlet I've been watching from afar, and I concur.
I think this would all be easier if Stack Exchange added a way to "close" answers that don't follow back it up.
I think it matters more on Lit than on Mythology because it's so easy to write poor analyses of literature that sound right but aren't.
@Hamlet When we get mods, you can add post notices to answers that can signal that
12:23 AM
There's a close feature for questions, so people learn to use it to close questions that aren't suitable. If there was a close feature for answers.
@Zizouz212 I've been considering that.
@Zizouz212 yeah, but the culture around post notices is that you need a huge amount of community buy in. People want to let the votes decide, which isn't enough.
@Hamlet Don't forget that "back it up" was pointless for the beginnings of SE. If it worked it was right, if it didn't it was wrong. No "authority" was needed/
But that ties into your leadership thing, it will probably be one of the only effective tools you will have
Closing questions is built in with the software, it comes at the start of private beta, so people learn how to apply it to the site.
12:25 AM
One issue I've seen with answer quality is that it's easier for crappy answers to slide in for any question once enough previous answers have been accumulated.
Fewer people see the new ones, so fewer people are prepared to comment and/or vote.
But not only that, but votes here are "I agree - this will work" so stuff will be hard
@Zizouz212 We don't use post notices over at Lit.
But post notices are kind of useless; they're just glorified comments.
If, for example, a post notice moved an answer to the bottom of a page...
Then it would actually be a useful tool.
@Zizouz212 The one thing I don't like about post notices in this case is that while it gives the weight of authority, it's not coming from the community.
The community has to back this policy up.
12:27 AM
@HDE226868 Well, as a user you are empowered to downvote and leave comments.
That's how it starts out.
That's fair, but I fear that you'll have the majority of the community against you.
Votes here symbolize different things.
You won't get 100% buy in from the community. You'll maybe get 50%.
I don't even think it will get 50%
And that is where significant issues can start
But you don't need community consensus to leave constructive comments about how to improve answers.
(someone star that last message).
@Hamlet I'll bet ~33% at the start, 67% if it works over time.
@Hamlet Certainly, and that's arguably one of the best courses of action here.
That's how I've seen stuff like this happen before.
12:29 AM
If people will be serious about actually implementing this, then you're going to need a lot of commitment by the community. I know I'm being awfully pessimistic about gathering support, but I fear that this will all be difficult to reverse.
@HDE226868 but remember, the people who don't want to write good answers/improve their answers probably won't stick around anyway once the novelty of the beta wears off.
@Zizouz212 again, you don't need community consensus to leave constructive comments about how to improve answers.
Here are the three steps again:
1. Come up with a simple way of explaining how to write answers that follow the back it up rule.
I realize that, but many of these answers are likely to be highly upvoted
Sorry, I'll be quiet.
@Zizouz212 we have that problem over at lit.
Not really sure what to say other than (1) this is Stack Exchange's fault for not doing a better job of getting "back it up" going right from the start of a beta, and (2) you can't do anything about old content, focus on new content.
Here's a proposed (generic, for now) comment I have. Does anyone have some feedback?
> This answer doesn't seem to [back up](Link to page of choice) its conclusions well enough. A good experience-based answer should explain the experience, and how it leads to the conclusions drawn therein. Please edit this answer to better Back It Up.
explain from experience :)
How are you proposing to compose the back it up policy though?
12:35 AM
> This answer doesn't seem to [back up](Link to page of choice) its conclusions well enough. If you're writing from experience, it's not enough to say "I have experience with x, listen to me." You have to explain how you obtained your experience in x, why you think your experience in x is applicable to the OP's situation, and what you think will happen if the OP implements your advice.
But I'm horrible at writing these sorts of comments.
Some advice I've gotten is to frame comments in terms of you not understanding the answer, i.e. you've failed, not that the person who wrote the answer failed.
@HDE226868 I'm not really sure what you mean by "explain the experience". What experience. Also, if I'm the person who wrote the answer I'm probably not sure what an "experience-based answer" is.
Here's another thing to keep in mind - how will you judge experience? I will have different experiences than you, and others may actually "downgrade" others' experiences.
@Zizouz212 well, it's not just enough to have experience, you need to explain why your experience is applicable.
That brings me to another issue - the questions. These questions need to be specific to what kind of stuff is happening. And I know there's a lot of crap that comes from private betas, but we also need to get better questions - a back it up policy and better questions need to come together.
@HDE226868 it was a start
@Hamlet I feel like the last phrase "what you think will happen" bothers me a bit, but I'm struggling to improve on it. "Think" feels a bit weak, but "know" is obviously not true
@Hamlet Perhaps a phrase like "the experience the answer is based on". Your "writing from experience" is better.
12:44 AM
@HDE226868 believe will happen?
Not sure if that's overly redundant.
(Sorry, my Internet connection wonked out there for a second.)
@Hamlet Maybe.
BTW I'm writing an answer on the site to give you all an example of a good experienced-based answer.
@YvetteColomb Not really. :P
1:05 AM
I'm asking questions out of my experience - I'm wanting some feedback on the last two I've asked. I think one is better then the other - but I'm curious to see what people think and why - trying to define scope and how to ask a good question
@HDE226868 @Hamlet @Zizouz212 ^^
@YvetteColomb I definitely like the second one, in part because I've had similar situations. Also, it presents reasons both for and against talking to the dog, and describes a specific instance.
The first one seems overly broad.
Taking a look...
@HDE226868 yes, I'm happy to edit it. That's the one I'm not so happy on
The other question is - I don't know why I have this idea that we shouldn't talk about the guide dog - I googled to see if it was anywhere - so I cannot say why I think that and I'm not sure if it's a more universal thing or some quirk I've picked up @HDE226868
I like the newest one. It's very specific :)
A lot of the questions discuss things that a lot of people experience - so I guess this is opening up the idea of things that are user specific
1:10 AM
I think it's the issue with disabilities posing barriers
@Zizouz212 thanks, so I need to refine the first one. What do you suggest?
In general, I'm a fan of specific questions.
Specific cases -> specific answers.
Same here
I think it's just a specific situation that we need. Where were you? Were you joining a conversation? Leaving it? New thought entered your head?
@HDE226868 ok
@Zizouz212 ok
On the other hand, I can see that some problems transcend situations. Like this one.
1:13 AM
I will edit it
I've decided to nominate myself for mod on stack overflow :)
@YvetteColomb Great.
@HDE226868 I think for me it's the context. Depending on the answers to what I asked, it definitely is acceptable to just interrupt
@YvetteColomb Way to take a leap!
I will finish my thing on stack overflow and then edit the Q
You did look before you leapt, right?
1:14 AM
@HDE226868 look I've got nothing to lose - except the election
@Zizouz212 yes :D It's terrifying - I'm scared I'll be unpopular
And your mind, if elected.
Took the words right out of my mouth :P
But best of luck!
the thing is - if I get a chance of being elected on stack overflow - I don't think I should mod here - there's an off chance I could get a position here.
Honestly I don't think I will win either.
1:18 AM
Here's an example answer that I think meets the criteria of an experience-based answer.
A: How can I ask an autistic volunteer at camp to be more independent?

HamletI used to work at a camp where I had volunteers, and I know/worked with people with autism, but not at the same time. The camp I worked at was within the US, so hopefully my advice is applicable to your specific cultural situation. The thing you have to remember is that as a camp counselor, the ...

And I've spent way too much time on this, so I'm out.
@Hamlet Taking a look right now :)
I don't understand the downvote, but I haven't read the whole thing yet.
I downvoted, but that's more on a factual basis
I'm reversing it for right now, but there are many factual components of the answer that I have big objections to.
I'm just trying to figure out how to word what I'm thinking
omg I've done it - the stack overflow nom I feel light headed
Hip Hip Hooray!
1:31 AM
> candidate score 32/40
Not bad at all.
ok I've edited this interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/633/… still too broad?
1 hour later…
3:16 AM
@Zizouz212 worth mentioning that I understated the extent of my "experience" with autism in that answer, but also worth mentioning that my "experience" is by no means representative of everyone's.
Anyway, if you disagree with the "factual" components of that answer, feel free to leave comments/downvote/write your own answer.
@Hamlet Yeah, and after reading a little bit more, I may have been a little bit too trigger happy
The spectrum is really wide (I've worked with it before, and I've helped develop educational frameworks to help ensure the success of students with autism and other disabilities) - so it may not be fair to provide a down vote.
@Zizouz212 absolutely fair to provide a downvote.
I'm still interested in hearing your criticism.
Not necessarily. My experience is also far different from yours, and in hindsight, my criticism is probably of both the question and the answer in their own respects.
@Zizouz212 still interested in hearing it
(stack exchange sites are allegedly for "experts")
I'm not going to provide it with an upvote, just because I can't exactly say that I would vouch for the answer there, but give me some time and I'll either write another answer, or write a series of comments on the answer.
My thoughts are too messy right now. It's nearly midnight :P
3:30 AM
@Zizouz212 going through the answer, I did realize that I made a pretty big mistake
> How to tell whether or not you are busy with work. Ask your volunteer if there are times when they feel like they are standing around doing nothing.
Replaced that with
> How to tell whether or not you are busy with work. If you see the volunteer doing nothing, try asking them what they're doing at the moment. The answer will reveal what they are thinking when they are "standing around", and you can use that information to tailor your advice about what is expected of a volunteer.
3:49 AM
@Zizouz212 rethought my answer and made some significant edits: let me know if this improves things.
3 hours later…
nice :)
5 hours later…
11:18 AM
Good People I am here to say:
Today is the DAY we go PUBLIC!!!
A: When are we going to public beta?

Robert CartainoBarring any technical delays, the site should go public tomorrow afternoon (Tue, 18-Jul). The nomination thread was posted last week, so the selection process typically begins about a week after the site launches; however, I will be out of town next week and I am slated to make the initial contac...

@Hamlet The one thing that bothers me is that I don't see how your answer follows the model you've outlined above.
You mention your experience in the first and third paragraphs, but besides that, the relationship between your experience and your conclusions isn't that clear.
It's possible that I misunderstood what you were saying before.
11:36 AM
@HenryWHHackv2.0 everything will happen on tuesday in Stack Exchange
Today we go public
Today the ethereum election will be over
Today a new site may come out.
All in one Tuesday .
Please note the last one may not be correct.
11:52 AM
Don't say that.
oh sorry, did I offend you?
Your avatar is cute, so it's like a cute dog being so happy and it made me smile :)
Your enthusiasm
@YvetteColomb It looks like a love message.
@YvetteColomb Ok,
@HenryWHHackv2.0 Oh no!! Not at all. I view you as a child figure to me
I will be careful
it is interpersonal skills after all - well that was awkward
11:55 AM
You have to make it clear it's my avatar you are talking about.
@YvetteColomb I am a child. (14 years old.)
Is that your dog?
Also our good friend: Mithrandir
well I can assure you I do not give any love messages on here and I appreciate you telling me
11:57 AM
Is also nevermind
Ok game: Who can stay silence the most longest wins. (A popular one.)
I haven't talked for 5 hrs and 30 minutes. Did I win? ;P
@AJ That was before the game began.
You talked. You lose. :P
@AJ lol
12:01 PM
@YvetteColomb You won.
Yes I did!
That was quite clever
@YvetteColomb :P
Maybe I win
Are we playing another round?
On a similar note,
Q: What methods help to avoid "that awkward silence"?

Zoltán SchmidtIntroverted people tend to become embarrassed either when approaching someone or when a certain topic in a conversation runs out. It is often followed by apparently "losing the ability to find a new topic", resulting in silence from both sides. How can someone prevent this situation?

12:03 PM
@AJ yes we can!!
You could just not talk to people
Awkard silence sucessfully avoided
we are the most dysfunctional group for interpersonal skills
At least we exist
unlike my female companion :/
12:05 PM
ooh no
you mean you don't have one?
I actually do, I just really like to make self-deprecating jokes
It's actually a good thing that I can't really make any true self-deprecating jokes
just realised that
yes that is good
Cue awkward silence
12:09 PM
sounds good to me
I have to do some work O>O
I do too. I'm just not doing it. ;[
too early to do work
I did see the awkward silence once.
In real life, or on here?
I have seen it many a time. Conversations with my grandparents always end that way
12:27 PM
I went to a place with my junior, his friend, and his friend's sister. While returning back, we decided to take a walk instead of cab. I and his friend's sister were left behind. So, I talked to her for one mile and after that I had no topic left, so we stayed silent afterward. That was quite an awkward silence.
1:25 PM
Like this one? xD
1:56 PM
probably more awkward tho
just popping in
I have the tab open
so technically I was already in here
2:18 PM
@HDE226868 it turns out that it's harder to write experience-based answers for this site than I thought.
@Hamlet I know
@HDE226868 what I found is that the more I thought about your question, the more I realized that I needed more information, and the answer turned into more of a collection of suggestions (admittedly the suggestions were backed up with "logic", which did make them better than a lot of the answers here.
@Hamlet Yes, especially when talking about multiple experiences of the same kind of scenario.
The other problem is in retrospect, I don't have experience in your situation, I just have experience with two related experiences.
But I think it's a decent attempt
> I used to work at a camp where I had volunteers, and I know/worked with people with autism, but not at the same time. The camp I worked at was within the US, so hopefully my advice is applicable to your specific cultural situation.
Here I explain the source of my experience. This also includes an explanation of the cultural context.
Both very important pieces of information to have, and information that isn't being included in a lot of answers here.

The thing you have to remember is that as a camp counselor, the volunteers are secondary--your main priority is with the campers (or at least it was at my camp). If you spend too much time with the volunteer, you won't be doing your job. Remember that they aren't staff, they're volunteers; they're there in part to get experience functioning in a job-like environment. So if things aren't clicking, that might mean that they need another year of being a volunteer before they're ready to take on more responsibility.
The source of this is just my experience with volunteers.
Maybe these three paragraphs aren't great, but they're based off of my experience, and I include an explanation of why I think my experience would be representative.

Since you're working with someone who is autistic, one problem that you might be running into is that some of the tasks might be very difficult. Reading to kids and/or participating in social activities are involved tasks. Maybe there are different tasks this volunteer can do? It might be that the volunteer doesn't even feel comfortable telling you that they don't want to do these talks, leaving you with the impression that they aren't taking initiative.

With regards to taking initiative, the first thing I would do is try to figure out what's going on. The next time you see the voluntee
What I would fine more useful in an answer such as this would be a way to weave together the experience with the advice in the answer. That's slightly different from the three-step approach. You started to go through (1) and (2), but then part (3) essentially took over.
2:31 PM
This is where I realize that I don't really have enough information, and explained how I would get information. I think both of my suggestions here are backed up by "logic"
@Hamlet That's basically what I had been trying to push before.
Most people won't have identical experiences, as illustrated here.
But they'll be similar enough that the relevance of the answerer's experience can and should be justified.
@HDE226868 was my answer helpful at least?
@Hamlet My slightly tongue-in-cheek response would be that I'll try some of it out today. Yes, it did give some pointers that I can use.
I haven't yet voted on it, though.
I'll get back to you on that later, if that's okay.
I have mixed feelings, but this is a problem where I do need a solution.
@HDE226868 a big part of my answer is there might not be a solution.
@Hamlet I know.
Which is something I was prepared for going in.
2:48 PM
I have to go soon, and I won't be around for the moment when the site goes public and the Internet comes pouring in. However, I do want to leave a little note for the folks who come and join us:
Welcome to Interpersonal Skills Stack Exchange, new users! Our site is a bit peculiar, in that it deals with some pretty subjective topics, and we know that. We still have some problems to solve, and we'd love your help. If you have any questions please ask them here in chat; we'd also like to hear your voices on meta. I hope to see you around on the main site.
It's too long for the starboard ;(
What time (eastern murica time) will it go live?
3:33 PM
I don't thing we have a specific time... the "afternoon".
who's afternoon :)
I think Robert's in Florida.
So, in a couple of hours from now.
2 hours later…
5:37 PM
@YvetteColomb Wow!! You have accounts on every SE site.
Anyway, good luck for mod election on SO. :)
@AJ I'm part of a team in here chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/11540/charcoal-hq and we flag spam across the network, which requires having accounts on every site
@AJ thanks so much, If by chance I am elected there, I'll withdraw my nomination here
It's a hard work to be a mod on SO.
yes it is
but I've been active in the review queues there
I've been there too, but I don't have access to CV review queue yet.
4k helpful flags
15k reviews (adding queue totals)
9k votes (all vote types)
1.7k edits
5:42 PM
I hold 5 Steward badges there.
6:03 PM
@HDE226868 now I'm thinking that I should delete my answer, since I am not in the exact situation that you were in.
One of the reasons answering questions here is hard is that in most cases, I haven't been in the exact situation that the question describes, or that the question is vague so I have to guess things about the situation.
1 hour later…
7:51 PM
Jus got a beta badge... I think that means we are live.
[Congrats Interpersonal.SE for]: Getting into public beta! :)
@Catija Yep
@Catija Just got the badge also :D
...but the banner is still up never mind, opened the site successfully in incognito mode. We're in public beta!
What banner?
Never mind
Yes but still tell me. ;)
7:54 PM
> got a question about the site itself? interpersonal.meta is the place to talk about things like what questions are appropriate, what tags we should use, etc.
I thought that only showed in private beta, but maybe not. Weird that I don't see it on Literature though, which is also in public beta.
Maybe it's only shown to users below a specific reputation threshold?
It will be removed.
Trust me.
1 hour later…
9:08 PM
@Hamlet Yes, that's definitely hard. I've significantly lowered my goals for number of posts because of it.
I would be okay if you deleted your answer (though of course it's all your call). It does still help; I'm not sure whether it ended up being what you were looking for in an experience-based answer.
Also, the volunteer did not show up today.
The irony.
On the other hand, if he doesn't come back, my case of the problem is, from one point of view, solved.
9:30 PM
Except that leaves you short handed.
@Catija Yes, and we're a bit short-staffed this summer.
Still, we got by last week with preschoolers and no volunteer, and that was a bad group. I'm optimistic for the next few days.
You said 14 of them and only 2 of you? Youch.
I know.
Each day, I say six words: "I'm just thankful it wasn't worse."
But if I see a little kid smile . . . it makes everything else worth it.
Does that even meet the minimum student-adult ratio for that age range?
max... whatever.
Or are the camps exempt?
@Catija I'm not sure.
Occasionally, extra naturalists are shunted onto a camp for a brief period, like during snack time, when I'm the only one minding the kids while the camp's naturalist sets up for the second half.
That makes things a bit better.
Today, only 10/14 showed up. All boys. Only 1/14 is a girl, by the way.
Though she coped really well yesterday.
9:40 PM
Hey guys
@Catija facepalm
Just joined the chat.
A: Accepting Nominations — Who should moderate this site?

Christopher Notes: I would like to be a mod since I really believe that I could make a difference, I was not active at first as other items (in real life) were more pressing. I am active on PPCG another Stack Exchange and would like to help everyone here change for the better. I know that I only have 1...

@Christopher Good to see you here!
I'm going to delete that, though. Probably not appropriate.
@HDE226868 I decided to run for the temp mod :P
9:41 PM
Q: How should a question asker explain the results of using specific advice?

HDE 226868I asked a question yesterday that was about an issue I'm currently dealing with. I was going to apply the advice of some of the answers to the situation during the next couple of days. For better or for worse, it's turned out that the problem might be moot, but I was planning to try to write up t...

@Catija It's not great if that's one of the first things a new user sees, no. :P
@Christopher For now, I won't vote on your nomination simply because I haven't seen as much of your actions as I would like to have an idea if you'd be a good mod. Hopefully, that'll change in the coming days. :-)
@HDE226868 :P yeah well I am mostly on PPCG XD
@HDE226868 you can watch. I am starting to answer some questions :P
@Christopher I would advise maybe explaining more in your answers why you think your suggestion works - in a little more detail.
Quality > quantity here.
@HDE226868 yeah finished edit
@HDE226868 Quality is always > quantity
(Except in upvotes to my posts)
@Christopher Oh, I meant on the main site, not just meta.
9:54 PM
@HDE226868 XD
10:09 PM
By the way, I'll just add that the content we post now needs to be good. When someone looks at the homepage, this stuff is going to be the first thing they see.
(By "this stuff", I mean recent posts in general.)
Well this sucks. Might lose my job since I can only work the 2 other shifts that I don't work. (Car situation changed)
Sup folks
10:58 PM
@Zizouz212 waves
wow! more peoples
That will make the silences more awkwarder
@10Replies That's my line!
@HDE226868 Hey!
11:20 PM
Proposed site theme song/anthem: The Sound of Silence, Simon & Garfunkel.
Well I deleted the answer.
11:41 PM
HDE226868 I have a problem with one of your comments this one:
I just wanted to say thank you to the Stack Exchange team for helping get this site off the ground. It plenty of potential to deeply help people on an individual level, and I'm thankful that we've gotten the chance to dip into that potential. — HDE 226868 2 hours ago
Shouldn't the community itself also be thanked for helping the site get off the ground?
@Hamlet why?
Zizouz212 What is wrong with your hair?
hahaha somebody noticed
@HenryWHHackv2.0 Yeah, definitely.
Thank you, Interpersonal Skills Stack Exchange community!
But there's also a lot of behind-the scenes stuff that SE does that we never see.
And I wanted to recognize that.
@Hamlet Okay. Let me know if you have further thoughts/changes/etc. on/to it.
@HDE226868 Dude IPS is a forum software.
11:46 PM
@HenryWHHackv2.0 It's also our site nickname elsewhere, AFAIK. :P For better or for worse.
I think you should of made it clear that it's SE we are talking about really.
Interpersonal Stack Exchange or Interpersonal.SE
OK go back to doing your science stuff.
I like Zizouz212's old avatar better.

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