TRPG General Chat

BESW

22:00

I was kinda surprised it was flagged, yeah. I personally tend toward the "talk it out" approach to curation.

Papayaman1000

Like seriously, just say something and I'll edit it. Jeez...

BESW

@godskook Papaya's flag was for a much more intense swear that had only one letter asterisked out.

Yuuki

@Papayaman1000 Well, anyone can flag a message through the transcript. Flags have to validated by 10k chat users, but they can be validated by any 10k chat user.

BESW

@Papayaman1000 Yeah, I was literally writing a "Hey, maybe edit that" when you vanished.

Papayaman1000

Not more-or-less dissolve an active, interesting, and enjoyable conversation.

godskook

22:01

Y'know, I'm beginning to worry about my longevity in this community.

BESW

I reserve flags for egregious actions with no sign of an attempt to moderate extreme language.

Papayaman1000

Like I get it I can be a bit risque but it's frustrating

@godskook Yeah, it's pretty strict here, but it's ultimately worth those little annoyances for good curation and such.

undergroundmonorail

I'm (slowly, slowly) working on a campaign I'd like to run for my friends one day where the PCs are part of a fairly traditional fantasy world, but during the first session they'd gain the ability to jump a few hundred years to an advanced, magitek version of the same world and back as a result of being in the right place at the right time when the BBEG from *that* time first jumped *back*. They'd have to fight a war on two fronts because if they lose the present, a future where they have a chance will never come to pass, and if they lose the future the BBEG will gain enough power to be uns…

godskook

That's.....a really cool idea.

Don't do it.

Papayaman1000

@godskook What he said.

BESW

22:03

This chat has developed that culture because we want to be able to talk about Serious Topics like gender and racism in a mature way, and we've found that being casual or permissive about unnecessary invective makes it a LOT harder to maintain a mature, dignified conversation when tensions get high.

Papayaman1000

wait what

Yuuki

For the most part, as long as the flagged message doesn't visibly insult anyone, cast any racially/sexually/etc. insensitive aspersions, or isn't just like twenty expletives in a row, I'll either invalidate or (most likely) ignore.

But yeah, I have seen some really silly chat flags. It's a known problem, but not really one high on anyone's priority list.

godskook

@Yuuki, I'm a card-carrying Trump supporter. According to half my facebook friends list, EVERYTHING I say is racist, sexist, homophic, transphobic and islamaphobic.

BESW

And the wider Stack Exchange community is deeply divided on the issue, so you'll get wildly different resolution of flags depending on who sees it.

Papayaman1000

On a more light-hearted note I am quite curious at the scripting for the default user images

Yuuki

22:06

@Papayaman1000 IIRC, it's an image generated off a hash based on your... email?

Papayaman1000

@godskook I personally disagree with Trump quite strongly but so long as you're not actually saying those things I don't care and that's how it should be

BESW

172

Q: How is the default user avatar generated?

Is there a name for the default avatars that are generated for users who do not assign one themselves? Not the avatar of the blank user, but the one made up of shards, shapes, and colours: Is there an online generator for something like that? See also: How do I change my profile ...

Papayaman1000

Same with any other hot-button issue

Yuuki

@Papayaman1000 Flagged for even-tempered discussion

Papayaman1000

@Yuuki More-or-less :P

A_S00

22:07

@Yuuki flagged for including the string cuss

godskook

@undergroundmonorail, @Papayaman1000, the reason I say don't do that concept is because you're setting up HYPER specific railroad tracks that require a huge amount of player and DM skill in order to reach a successful and epic resulting campaign. And....almost all DMs and/or players can't live up to that in the same instance of the same campaign.

Shalvenay

hey there @Papayaman1000

undergroundmonorail

yeah that's pretty fair actually

Papayaman1000

@Shalvenay Heyyyy! See you in four hours ;)

BESW

Time travel games are difficult unless you're willing to take a very relaxed approach to causality.

Shalvenay

22:08

got it :)

Papayaman1000

[User was banned for using wink emote]

undergroundmonorail

i think it's a cool enough idea that i'd honestly like to give it a try but like, my only experience GMing anything was a couple games of paranoia ance and it went horribly so maybe i'd want some more time under my belt

godskook

Like....maybe you could setup this campaign to work exactly how you want it to work.

But the odds that you could do that and also run it, and ALSO find a full team of players to run it who'll rise to the challenge.

That's.....not as likely as you'd probably like.

Papayaman1000

@undergroundmonorail IMO Paranoia is the worst possible system for a first-time GM in every way

undergroundmonorail

@BESW yeah my plan was to have a couple nods in the future to their actions in the present and let the party use the time travel mechanic to do stuff they think up if it's sufficiently clever or cool and otherwise basically ignore causality altogether

BESW

22:10

Yeeeah, Paranoia is a satire/parody of a particular RPG paradigm. I can't imagine what it'd be like to take that as my first RPG experience.

undergroundmonorail

BTTF rules: there are no rules

Papayaman1000

Like I love the system but it's just so incredibly different from how you should run a campaign that it concerns me

godskook

My first experience with DMing was reading DM of the Rings.

And then Darth&Droids

Papayaman1000

Just, for the record, you should never be a killer game master

@godskook Chainmail Bikini, then Erfworld... I guess?

godskook

OotS before Erfworld.

undergroundmonorail

22:11

yeah, i realized once i was in over my head that it probably wasn't a great first system for that, but now i'm the only one in my group who can run it because players aren't supposed to know the rules lmao

BESW

@Papayaman1000 Unless everybody wants it (that happens!), in which case use a system designed for it.

(great-ork-gods is my group's go-to system for "We want a night of slapstick violence and sudden meaningless character death.")

godskook

@undergroundmonorail, so far, my best experience is with E6 variants.

Papayaman1000

Well, they can... but demonstrating that knowledge is treason and punishable by summary execution. The computer is your friend, right?

I guess not. For shame.
[You have been terminated.]

undergroundmonorail

@Papayaman1000 haha, true

despite my difficulty running the game i'm still in love with the setting

godskook

@Papayaman1000 and anyone else who read it, what'd you think of that setting dump?

Papayaman1000

22:14

@godskook It was good if a bit complicated

godskook

Honestly, all a player ~really~ needs to know is a rough draft of Kintarra.

Everything else can be improv for all I care, including where the PC is from.

Papayaman1000

I like slowly revealing the plot throughout the campaign for many reasons
1. It's on the players to take note of vital plot points
2. If you make a contradiction then you can handwave it away by saying the earlier bit was wrong
3. If you change your mind it's a lot easier and keeps suspension of disbelief
4. Generally easier to be lazy
5. Also it's more involved or something I guess

godskook

That's....not plot, though. That's what the other PCs did this winter.

And the new guys are joining the setting, so I re-told what the last group did in a more history textbook-friendly manner.

Actually, on some level, I don't "do" typical DM "plot".

Papayaman1000

@godskook Improv everything except maybe encounters? Who doesn't?

godskook

My campaigns and setting don't have a "BBEG" anymore.

Papayaman1000

22:22

@godskook Moral dilemmas and actual natural plot? Who doesn't?

godskook

lol

Erik

To be fair, I have some friends that I DM for that aren't capable of handling moral dillemas. Or plot. Or NPCs. They are very interesting to run games for.

godskook

Well, like, I plan encounters and reoccurring villains, but I keep them down to earth and without absurd effects on the setting.

Shalvenay

@godskook I prefer BBEG-less campaigns myself although I haven't really gotten a chance to DM one

Papayaman1000

@Erik More of a pure kick-in-door-pick-fight-steal-treasure-repeat?

JuneShores

22:23

Hi hi.

BESW

[wave]

What's new?

godskook

My most "epic" villain with this group is the son of a fallen Paladin who's now carrying out his father's work to bring back the gods by forcing there to be a need -for- gods to come back to defend against.

And....

Papayaman1000

Frankly I just refer to whoever is the most immediate concern as "the BBEG" in most cases

godskook

He's just in the background building a cult atm.

Erik

No they WANT interesting stories and fun NPCs and hard choices, they just then dissolve into joking around 10 minutes into the game and try generally try to do all sorts of stupid stuff

godskook

22:24

off in "nondescript-land"

Papayaman1000

"Go get the BBEG now!"
"But he's like half a continent away in the evil doomfort"
"I mean the shaman you dolt"
"But he's not the--"
"Right now he kinda is"

godskook

But like....literally, if I were to TPK the Party, nothing hugely interesting would happen on the planar scale.

JuneShores

Not much. Seeing about getting some playtesters for some Dungeon World compendium classes.

godskook

I'm never left in a situation where I have to re-write the story for 9 hours because the PCs decided not to drink any potions before fighting a Dragon.

Papayaman1000

@godskook Anything beyond the oh noes she was supposed to clear out the mine scale?

godskook

22:26

Well, like.....my format inspiration is NCIS and similar shows.

JuneShores

I sometimes prep wide scale stuff, but only a session in advance. It gets... messy.

Papayaman1000

@godskook Okay then. That would be a no.

BESW

@JuneShores I hear that. I'm practicing episodic campaigns lately.

godskook

Well like....at one point, the PCs saved the last dying God who was entombed in a demon pit in order to keep a hell-gate shut.

BESW

Tonight I think we're going to be doing preliminaries for a Stargate campaign.

JuneShores

22:28

@BESW Yeah. Episodic campaigns are my favorite to run. It's so much easier to manage scale and expectations.

godskook

But like......if the PCs had never found the place, then someone else would've been sent to deal with it.

And the hell-gate eventually closed permanently.

trogdor

@BESW ooh, we have the people for that?

BESW

I'm working on how to take what makes Stargate awesome without indulging too much in its kinda offensive premise--I think the key is recognising that its premise is a ridiculous and offensive conspiracy theory played straight, and keeping that in mind as it plays out.

trogdor

IE probably just us two and greener

Papayaman1000

@JuneShores My players and I are writers so anything short of a Tolkien trilogy is laughed out of the room

BESW

22:29

@trogdor Greener thinks he can join us.

trogdor

@BESW niiiiiice

godskook

Stargate has an offensive premise?

trogdor

@godskook huh?

what?

Papayaman1000

@godskook Kind of

godskook

Ok, I'm going to get flagged for this, but what's the offensive premise?

trogdor

22:30

@Papayaman1000 well like, I guess if you count the fact that the aliens are all gods of historic cultures,..... but I mean

BESW

yeah, its high concept is "Aliens built the pyramids," which is rooted in some very unfortunate ideas about race, civilisation, etc.

trogdor

I don't find that so offensive when everyone knows that isn't reality,.......

Erik

If only everyone knew that, but sadly the craziest ideas can get followers.

Papayaman1000

@trogdor You don't really watch much History Channel do you

trogdor

fair enough I guess

doppelgreener

22:31

@BESW @trogdor I am going to bed in just a few minutes to help this happen.

trogdor

@Papayaman1000 that is such a joke channel

BESW

The TV show expanded that to basically say "Every culture's faith except the Abrahamic religions are actually worshipping aliens, and every culture's greatest achievements prior to about 2000 years ago are probably actually alien events."

trogdor

@doppelgreener yesssssssss

godskook

How does that have a negative implication on "race"?

In the non-scifi sense?

trogdor

@BESW I mean, I would find this more offensive if it didn't basically include all the cultures it could

though on a religious spectrum they did miss the one

Papayaman1000

22:32

@godskook "If you're not Catholic you're not just wrong, you're so wrong that you thought the magic space man made the crops grow"

BESW

Unfortunately, not everyone actually knows it isn't reality: there are STILL plenty of scholars who operate on the notion that any culture that isn't modern and/or European couldn't have done the amazing things they did, and do their research accordingly.

Papayaman1000

And as both someone supportive of other races and religions [a decent person] and an atheist that pisses me off on a deeply fundamental level

trogdor

@Papayaman1000 I wouldn't even pin it to Catholocism specifically, Christianity as a whole really, even protestants

though I personally think they were just afraid of the backlash if they messed with that

godskook

@Papayaman1000, uh, that's a rather unfair way to characterize that.

BESW

(eg, here on Guam scholarship about a local indigenous chief tends to be focused on how people think a white guy actually wrote the speech attributed to him.)

godskook

22:34

Considering that the Catholics are left with a much worse conclusion in that universe.

trogdor

@BESW yeah this is fair

godskook

Not only are they -wrong-, they're relying purely on fairy tails.

At least Thor was *REAL*(In Stargate)

doppelgreener

@BESW There is a current theory that they built water shafts which floated the materials upwards, meaning nobody has to carry them or slide them or even use rolling logs with ramps; they just have to build the canals around the pyramid itself & then remove them afterwards like scaffolding would be.

BESW

@godskook You may be interested to research the history of archaeological white-washing of ancient Egypt. It's honestly fascinating, and has repercussions even down to the architecture of Washington DC.

Anyway, I think I'm going to experiment with the idea (which so far as I can tell is coherent with the text) that the Goa'uld are copying Earth cultures, rather than bringing their cultures to Earth.

Papayaman1000

It's kind of similar to the kind of 'scientist' that went around with calipers, measured a guy's head, measured a woman's head, saw that in this particular instance the woman's was slightly smaller, and decided this is conclusive proof that men are all smarter than all women

like just

everything about that

no

godskook

22:38

@BESW, at the GUAM-thing, without context, that doesn't actually seem like a controversial thing if there's reasonable supporting evidence for it.

Context would help immensely

Erik

Is it mentioned anywhere in Stargate that Christians are wrong? I'm not super familiar with the setting, but if all the religions are clearly fake and nothing is ever mentioned about Christians, then it seems their idea is that it's actually the only religion that is real.

Otherwise it would come up at some point and be discarded like the others.

godskook

@Erik, the SG setting necessitates that the CHristians are wrong.

BESW

@godskook The primary issue is focusing on that element to the exclusion of other scholarship about Hurao; it re-frames the chief as a side note in a Jesuit priest's story rather than as a historical figure in his own right.

Erik

Why?

BESW

@Erik Christianity is never addressed directly, though the Knights of the Round Table were aliens and/or influenced by aliens and the Grail was an alien artefact.

Forrestfire

22:40

huh, godskook. Been a while.

BESW

Which is interesting, because the last two seasons of the show, after they milked pantheism and polytheism for everything they could, tackled monotheism.

godskook

@Erik, Christianity's central tennants aren't really compatible with the idea of the Ascended.

BESW

And they specifically invoked Christianity in response to the False Alien Monotheism, but on a matter of faith rather than a matter of history.

godskook

Heya, Forest.

doppelgreener

@BESW I think that's appropriate. Goa'uld arrive in a place, mimic that place's culture and emulate its gods, and effectively become civilisation-level cuckoos.

BESW

22:44

@doppelgreener Exactly.

doppelgreener

"HELLO, IT IS I, RA, I APOLOGISE FOR THE LONG ABSENCE."

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN I LOOK NOTHING LIKE HIM HA HA HA HA HA HA OF COURSE IT'S ME" [nervous sweating]

A_S00

@doppelgreener the Lord of Light approach

godskook

Honestly, I don't think there's any support for or against the idea that the myths pre-date the aliens.

Within the show.

BESW

It still has the problematic "savages deceived by the civilised" theme, but within the text there's plenty of room for commentary if I come at it from that angle--and that's what's important, I think: that our game not simply accept the problems inherent in the show's premise and let them go uncommented.

trogdor

@BESW I kinda like this idea yeah

BESW

22:47

The commentary won't be a major part in the game unless we want it to be, but we can't just go Full Thermian on the setting.

(Internal consistency is not sufficient justification for ignoring real-world problems with a concept.)

trogdor

@BESW which is weird because the monotheistic god was technically multiple amalgamated entities

BESW

@trogdor I'm not sure if they were going for commentary on the Trinity there, or just stepping on their own toes.

trogdor

it is weird either way

BESW

So I'll use Hanlon's Razor and assume they just didn't think it through.

Those last two seasons were very rushed.

trogdor

@BESW it isn't really that though, the Guald are literally just technilogically advanced parasites

godskook

22:50

@BESW, why is that theme "problematic"?

trogdor

like, they are not "civilized"

they are literally barbarians with better tech

BESW

@godskook The Trinity thing? If they were intending the parallel, it'd be a kinda nasty anti-Catholic jab.

godskook

In every context in the show, its portrayed as either morally wrong within the theme or as a tragic necessity.

doppelgreener

@BESW This theme halted my ability to watch The Road to El Dorado a few minutes in D': I want to watch that movie to know what all the fuss is about, but the plot arrives at "the natives mistake these two guys for their gods" and I just ... can't ...

godskook

No, the "savages deceived by the civilised" theme

Specifically in the context of Stargate.

BESW

22:51

Because it's rooted in real-world colonial attitudes that pervade archaeological and historical interpretations of the past.

trogdor

@doppelgreener ah, I saw it when I was a kid so yeah

to be fair though, they do pay a price for that deception

doppelgreener

@trogdor Is that like ... the majority of the plot of the movie? Is it a movie about them being mistaken for gods, then having to keep that up, then faltering & it coming out OK in the end somehow?

trogdor

but like, it still happened, and they are still painted as the heros

@doppelgreener baaaasically

doppelgreener

shoot.

trogdor

though as I recall, they do like, I think,..... cause something horrible to happen because of all that nonsense

BESW

22:53

The problem isn't that the show says it's okay (as you say, it doesn't). The problem is that it rides on the real-world idea of primitive civilisations needing a technological or social uplift from an outside source, with the implication (or outright statement) that they couldn't have reached their level of society/technology on their own.

trogdor

it was a while ago admittedly

godskook

@BESW, that doesn't really answer my question in any real meaningful way. "Its rooted in attitudes someone else had at some other time, and that some else was wrong" basically applies to everything.

Papayaman1000

@doppelgreener Pocahantas was *barely* better, but probably only because actual members of the culture are still alive to not pay Disney if that wasn't the case

doppelgreener

@BESW Also rides alongside the implication that tribal civilisations != advanced, and advanced civilisations != tribal, and thus any tribal civilisation is "behind the times" and not living correctly and need to grow to more Western standards, with the implications those are the progressive most advanced standards.

godskook

@Papayaman1000, they fucked up basically everyone for that movie.

trogdor

22:54

@BESW I mean, I can see that yeah, but there was also the whole thing about the aliens all being evil, and the whole world literally revolting against them hard enough to actually make them leave

Papayaman1000

@godskook Welcome to Disney my friend

BESW

@trogdor The "revolting to make them leave" thing, I plan to lean on heavily.

godskook

@Papayaman1000, like....Ratcliffe wasn't the douche that movie portrayed him to be either.

trogdor

@BESW I will agree with you on the obvious point that they made that a plot point, but did not touch on it enough

Papayaman1000

@godskook and again be careful with language, I don't want you getting shunted out of chat

trogdor

22:56

cause that was a much cooler plot point than they treated it as

BESW

@trogdor yes.

trogdor

^^

BESW

I imagine it as kind of "Battlefield Earth: 3000BC," but done right.

(Same pulpy feel though; Stargate lives and dies on its pulp roots, for better and for worse.)

trogdor

yeah, that would be pretty great XD

Thyzer

Completely uninformed guy here... what was/is game-rec?

nitsua60

22:59

@LegendaryDude I thought the most-recent UA spells made marriage magical, though =)

BESW

@Thyzer game-recommendation was a topic that RPG.SE tried to allow for several years. Basically, "I want to play in a game that does X, Y, and Z. What system should I use?"

A_S00

@Thyzer game recommendations (questions that were like "what would be a good game system for X") became off-topic because they attracted a lot of bad, open-ended, more-or-less unanswerable question

BESW

It had offshoot topics like tool-rec and adventure-rec.

Yeah. The community wasn't interested enough in applying rigorous standards to recommendation questions and answers, so the effort of keeping them up to site standards outweighed the benefit it added to the site. Nobody liked admitting that.

trogdor

yeah, I bet game rec would be nice and useful if it didn't take that kind of apparent upkeep

Thyzer

Well in times of "too broad" and "primarily opinion based" it seems they would all fall into that and be shut down instantly

Were those flags not there then?

Also: do other SE's have something similar? Arcade.SE for example?

trogdor

23:04

I think part of the issue is, people actually have to flag it like that, and get mod attention, and there is only so much mod attention

BESW

@Thyzer Oh, they were. Recommendation answers were expected to adhere to strict guidelines based on Good Subjective, Bad Subjective concepts, and questions were required to provide enough information to allow those answers.

@Thyzer Several SEs have tried. To the best of my knowledge RPG.SE was one of the last holdouts before giving up.

trogdor

and a lot of them didn't follow the guidlines, so they were a lot of work to make work

I assume

BESW

@Thyzer So, for example, no answer was allowed if it was speculative; you had to have experience with using that system for something very similar to the question's goals.

Thyzer

Thanks, helps understanding the meta-post/wall'o'text, even though I was not active here when the problem was at its peak, it seems

BESW

Which means the question had to be clear enough that an answer could outline how its experience matched.

The meta tag game-recommendation should have a lot of the history, if you're interested in primary documents.

nitsua60

23:07

@DForck42 A 20 on a roll, a +5 stat, +5 proficiency (L13) expertised gets you up to 35. Throw in a guidance/bless and a bardic inspiration for a few more points, or a stone of good luck or magically-enhanced stat and you're living around 40. It's not impossible, but you've got to be working for it.

BESW

A lot of people took exception to the idea that their speculation wasn't sufficient for the site to accept.

And it's VERY hard to write a question that's self-aware enough for really good subjective answers.

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

Thyzer

I must admit, I am not really active in meta, actually I started a couple days ago to look there and participate in chat. Until now I don't feel anything like superiority from the moderators.

BESW

Yeah, as Greener's post says there's been a LOT of improvement recently.

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 I might have flagged one of yours that time... I'll admit it. (I've thrown a flag within the last week--don't remember who it was directed to.)

@Shalvenay hiya

BESW

23:09

There are still a few dangling problems, and a backload of history that can't just be brushed away.

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Meh, whatevs.

BESW

(To be clear, I don't agree with everything in Greener's post; our discussions helped him clarify his own positions, and I helped with copy-editing. It's a massively important post, though, regardless of my reservations about a few of its conclusions and speculations.)

Thyzer

I this whole superiority thing the reason for the new moderator election?

nitsua60

@Papayaman1000 I'd just hate for you to be assuming it was BESW if it'd been me, and it certainly might have been.

@Shalvenay Okay, better if I could remember off the top of my head what day it is.

A_S00

23:14

@Thyzer naw that's mostly because our nominal third mod hasn't been active on the site for a while

Shalvenay

@Thyzer no, waxeagle got kidnapped by a dragon ;o

nitsua60

I think it's Friday, and that that's a good thing.

Papayaman1000

@nitsua60 Bah, I don't care who it was. I'm more miffed with the culture than those upholding it.

@nitsua60 Several times today I've come to that conclusion

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Don't know if I was really ready to write that suicide-answer; that's got me a bit pensive.

doppelgreener

@BESW I am enormously appreciative of it. And I am also going to go to bed now. I expect I will not be there quite at 7pm, but will do my best to be there by 7:30pm.

BESW

23:17

ttfn. Get sleep.

Thyzer

Oh crap, we had a third moderator? In my whole time being here I did not know that

doppelgreener

goodnight!

BESW

@Thyzer Yup, that's why we're having an election. [grin]

You can see our elected/diamond/blue moderators here.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Fine day's work, my green friend.

trogdor

@Thyzer yeah, I get confused by that too, especially since we have mods from other places in here some of the time at least

BESW

23:19

(High-rep users have access to many moderator tools as well, but the elected mods have hammer tools for exception handling, and they liaison with our Stack Overlords.)

Shalvenay

hey there @Forrestfire

Forrestfire

hi

BESW

[wave]

Shalvenay

how're things going?

trogdor

also, last time I talked to Wax Eagle about it, he said he was a mod for some other SE

A_S00

23:20

@trogdor christianity.stackexchange.com/users?tab=moderators

trogdor

@A_S00 ah yeah mhmm

that was it

BESW

Oh, man. People think RPG.SE is a stickler for adhering to the network policy guidelines.

Christianity.SE is where we ~~learned~~ larnt it.

nitsua60

I think at that level you call it larnin'

[C.SE mods] We larnt 'em good!

=)

Forrestfire

@Shalvenay going okay

Shalvenay

alright here.

BESW

23:23

Some Stacks just have a lower catch-fire point than others, and need more aggressive work to keep 'em civil. Christianity.se, parenting.se, gardening.se (yeah, really), rpg.se...

Forrestfire

... gardening?

nitsua60

@BESW You're right: no contraction in the third principal part.

Forrestfire

can you elaborate

nitsua60

It's growing your own food, usually in small plots.

=D

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah. I find aviation.se is on the other end from what I can tell

Forrestfire

23:25

ack

I gotta go

have a good one all

trogdor

@BESW gardening SE has this problem? sheesh

Papayaman1000

@Forrestfire you mess with planto you get the bano

it doesn't work

it never worked

BESW

@Forrestfire So far as I can tell, there's three major tensions in gardening communities: environmental concerns like pesticides and invasive species; concern about being able to live off your crop; and the fact that like RPGs, everybody's situation is MASSIVELY different (soil, precipitation, sun, etc) but a lot of people forget just how different it can be.

trogdor

fair enough

gives me some Dr Light ideas :P

not really, I am already bursting with ideas

BESW

A couple months ago I saw somebody rip apart an apocalypse seed bank kit.

Some companies sell personal seed banks: the idea is that when the food infrastructure collapses, you can plant these seeds and grow your own food.

Papayaman1000

23:27

@BESW Oh, those are hilariously awful.

usually.

BESW

That's a great idea, but most people who are selling seed banks don't ask where you live, so half the seeds won't grow for you at all.

And they put in the great big fat tomatoes, which are a nightmare to grow under the best conditions, when they could've put in the little tomatoes are practically impossible to fail.

Papayaman1000

plus I think all the zombie blood makes the soil a tad too alkaline

Shalvenay

@BESW whereas, to contrast Aviation -- everybody is dealing with the same laws of aerodynamics, largely similar regulations (because planes hop around the world all the dang time), and lots of similarities in situation otherwise (nobody wants to crash an airplane)

BESW

And some plants won't give a foodworthy harvest until two to five years after you plant them...

Joel Harmon

In "your fantasy society isn't weird enough", I learned today that the Tipperary Hill neighborhood in Syracuse, NY, has an upside down traffic light (green on top, red on bottom). The local Irish population apparently found it offensive that the Irish green appeared below the English red, and they kept breaking the red light.

@Papayaman1000 basically, yes

2

BESW

23:30

So I think that's a good microcosm of examples of how easy it can be for supposedly simple issues in gardening.se to explode.

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon makes me want to whack them over the head with the MUTCD (and tell them to mount the head horizontal if it bothers them that much)

Papayaman1000

@JoelHarmon ...I hate you.

BESW

Oh, and a generic seed vault will necessarily include invasive species.

Joel Harmon

@Papayaman1000 Really? I thought there might be some friendly chemistry there

Papayaman1000

@JoelHarmon stahp

Shalvenay

23:31

@BESW never mind that some species' invasiveness is highly context-dependent

BESW

@Shalvenay Exactly: any generic seed vault will have invasive species, because which seeds are invasive will depend on who's using it.

Shalvenay

I mean, even within a single user population and biome...

(compare say a pre-WWII North American lawn seed mix with one from 10-20 years ago, I reckon)

BESW

Also true.

Joel Harmon

not to mention the newfangled genetically modified/cross bred grass

BESW

@JoelHarmon That seems consistent with my understanding of the area, yes.

Joel Harmon

23:34

since it displaces native weeds, it's literally engineered to be an invasive species

BESW

(And is a great example of why logic and reason and pragmatism aren't sufficient for fantasy culture-building.)

Here on Guam we just mow our weeds.

...and plant food gardens. It's pretty deeply ingrained in the culture that if you have room to grow food, you do.

Shalvenay

yeah, I never understood the whole "perfect green carpet" attitude towards lawns myself

Joel Harmon

@BESW When I first heard that I thought of the random "your world isn't weird enough" posts here

Papayaman1000

@BESW This single comment will make every single mainland American look pathetic in comparison.

Shalvenay

@Papayaman1000 oh, I know the "mow the weeds" attitude -- its how we were when we lived in the 'hood xD

Papayaman1000

23:36

@Shalvenay Hell, it's how we live here in the decently well-off suburbs.

Shalvenay

(we'd still be that way save for our landlady insisting on the mowed green carpet)

BESW

Heh. While at college in South Carolina, I once had some upper-middle-class-suburbia friends take me to visit some less affluent friends at their semi-rural house, and they gave me a lecture before we arrived about how it was going to look kind of run-down and I shouldn't look surprised or shocked.

When we got there, I felt much more at home than in the suburban McHome.

trogdor

lol

Shalvenay

yeah -- I do not like the McMansion line of thinking myself.

BESW

Granted, most Guam homes are built on the military-housing principle of "Shaped like a concrete block and made out of concrete blocks."

Building codes for typhoons and earthquakes have, until very recently, somewhat limited the variety of affordable architecture.

Shalvenay

23:45

the Canadians have a much better idea with their concrete igloos ;)

Papayaman1000

Today on BESW's "This Guy Isn't Even Considered American By Most People Yet He's Better At Following American Ideals Than Actual Americans"...

trogdor

lol

not all American ideals are that great

BESW

[amused]

ACuriousMind

@Papayaman1000 You have a gift for catchy titles ;P

BESW

It usually takes folks one to three months to get culture shock when they move here from the mainland.

trogdor

23:52

then again, a lot of them are but just are assumed to be already in effect when they are not, so there is that too

Papayaman1000

@ACuriousMind Next time on "Wow I'm Terrible With Coming Up With Quick, Catchy, and To-The-Point Titles"...

trogdor

@BESW 'I realize this is silly of me to say, but I just don't even get what is so weird here that people can't accept it XD

Shalvenay

hey there @KorvinStarmast

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener Doppel, your finding the clean version of that BBEG link ref was awesome. Thank You, mate!

Shal, howdy

BESW

@Shalvenay That's pretty flash.

KorvinStarmast

23:54

Doppel just did an awesome thing.

Shalvenay

how're things going?

KorvinStarmast

He was able to dig a bit deeper and find via the wayback machine the post where Trollbill first used BBEG. I'd been mucking about in wayback and had not quite gotten it.

BESW

Doppelsome?

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah -- best part is that the idea scales from a single-family house up to 10+ story apartments/condos

KorvinStarmast

Things are well, we are heading to the Old Settler's Music Festival tomorrow, in Dripping Springs Texas, and I am very excited. Always a good time, and some good family friends will be joinin us.

Papayaman1000

23:55

so if it's a bad jump scare is he doppelscreamer

BESW

@Shalvenay My immediate thought, of course, is "Earthquakes and typhoons?"

KorvinStarmast

@besw Yeah, Doppelsome.

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast ah. I'm hopefully getting a chance to ride on one of the touring Ford Trimotors that's coming to town a couple months from now

@BESW I'm sure it can withstand pretty much anything you can throw at it storm-wise (this is the kind of construction that has been reported to laugh at F3 tornadoes)

KorvinStarmast

Whoa, I saw one of those as a kid at the Dulles Airport Air Show, circe 1966. Also saw a Vulcan and a couple of F-4s doing low level aerobatics

Shalvenay

@BESW re: earthquakes -- you design with proper reinforcements just like any other masonry design, I'm sure

BESW

23:57

Typhoon Pamela (1976)

Typhoon Pamela was a powerful typhoon that struck the U.S. territory of Guam in May 1976, causing about $500 million in damage (USD). The sixth named storm and third typhoon of the 1976 Pacific typhoon season, Pamela developed on May 14 from a trough in the Federated States of Micronesia in the area of the Nomoi Islands. It executed a counterclockwise loop and slowly intensified, bringing heavy rains to the islands in the region. Ten people died on Chuuk due to a landslide. After beginning a steady northwest motion toward Guam, Pamela attained its peak winds of 240 km/h (150 mph). On May 21, the...

KorvinStarmast

Eh, back to hearthstone, I have not fulfilled my daily quest ...

BESW

@Shalvenay I hope so. One of the things that saves our homes on a regular basis is that instead of basements, we build on a concrete pad wider than the house. Lets it float when the soil liquifies.

(And talking to almost anyone else, I might feel the need to explain or link about soil liquefaction during earthquakes.)

Papayaman1000

@BESW Now for our premier show, "This Guy Is Absolutely Better Than You".

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