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7:00 AM
@DJMcMayhem yeah, pretty much
everything is better with grave accent
icèd cream
stripèd green rabbit
Speaking of lulz, the longest of my three(!) Jelly answers to the Mertens challenge is the one that keeps getting votes. I usually fail at predicting which of my answers is going to be popular...
Simple explanation: the other 2 have math in it; too scary.
That can't be it. My Python answer is way scarier and by far more popular.
It's a beautiful implementation though, if I'm allowed to say so myself.
python more popular than jelly
that's unpossible
7:06 AM
Python is usually more popular.
Not that surprising
People are more likely to vote for something they understand. It's also hard to tell a well golfed and a poorly golfed answer apart if you know nothing about the language.
I could have sworn that in past experience jelly got many votes... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
python has the highest voted answer on site though
It's not like it's unpopular. My best-scoring code golf answer was in Jelly.
7:13 AM
yeah, the one for hyperprogramming
Most of the highest scoring Jelly answers are extremely trivial though.
well obviously
Answers that contain nothing more than one or two built-ins rarely get an upvote from me.
what about three built-ins though?
Jelly really shines at complex problems, where its tacit form and automatic vectorization can save a ton of bytes. Those are the answers that mostly get overlooked though.
7:16 AM
Also what's your opinion on having built-ins like this one in Jelly?
It's a bit too specific for my taste.
It is for me too
this is why people hate golfing langs
^ partly yes. People are legitimately upset that those langs have built-ins that are basically useless outside PPCG
It's weird to see that answer getting so much heat though, considering the poster had nothing to do with the addition of the built-in. Meanwhile, the CarmichaelLambda submission in Mathematica has a score of +42.
7:19 AM
as in, the people who dislike them seem to do so because of ridiculously specific builtins. in fact, some believe that golfing langs ARE just ridiculously specific builtins, especially due to the fact that higher voted posts are more visible, and ridiculously specific builtins get more votes somehow
Well Mathematica is a language full of built-ins for math so it's pretty much expected that the answer would be this
Voters love built-ins.
A: Index of a multidimensional array

DennisAPL, 1 byte ⊥ Test it on TryAPL.

Didn't even write an explanation...
Not that there's much to explain.
Whereas in Jelly you could probably solve this challenge in a few more bytes than that built-in, which makes you wonder why you even need it at all
> MseShpdCttr (1 step), 25 upvotes: I used this device called MseShpdCtter that takes a lump of dough and shapes and bakes and spits out a mouse shaped cookie.
which is in teh analogy for why someone hates golfing languages
Sep 18 at 8:15, by Destructible Watermelon
user image
7:21 AM
golfing languages are not just a couple of builtins, but the perception by new users is contrary to that
@betseg thanks, I was looking for that
Quite frankly, I didn't even know what the Carmichael function was when I accepted the pull request. I'm glad that I did though, since it came with a lot more atoms.
@DestructibleWatermelon ninja'd
"Well, the Carmichael function is important in number theory (as the currently top answer reflects), so I wouldn't call it useless"
Not so important that you would need a built-in for it
Golfing in a well designed golfing language is actually pretty hard, since the approach you'd usually opt for in traditional language will probably not score well.
I started learning GolfScript because it seemed to win all the time, just to discover that I was terrible at it.
My first stack-based language...
I was thinking I might just call the golf lang I'm making tè, because those are the most important letters in the name of original lang
7:25 AM
Not only were my programs too long, I constantly was confused about what was on the stack and needed a gazillion attempts to make it work.
but then Dennis did a deal with a divine entity and overtook the site, outgolfing everyone. the end... ?
With my first tacit language (APL), I started out with what I thought was the right way, them made seemingly random edits until it did what it was supposed to or I gave up.
Not quite. Once I managed GolfScript and CJam, Pyth popped up. It was roughly comparable to CJam at first, but was almost impossible to beat after a few months.
After that, our collection of golfing languages pretty much exploded.
@Dennis (about understand part) my 5 years C+py+bf answer is more upvoted than destructible's 6 years answer
Well, it's 3:30 again. I should go get some sleep.
I should too, but it's 9:30 and I'm at work, so I can't…
7:30 AM
Als 10:30
You should clearly all move here.
here being?
no habla español
7:32 AM
Neither did I when I moved here.
7:54 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

NeilBalanced Columns I have a number of paragraphs of various heights which I would like to be distributed between some columns as evenly as possible. Here evenly means that you should minimise the total height of the tallest column, and then maximise the height of the shortest column, excluding emp...

@Dennis I'm confused as to how the input works with your example of file reading binary, because I replaced the file reference thing the argv with input(), and typed a file that contains a single *, and it prints this:
8:11 AM
@DestructibleWatermelon Yes, that's a bytes objects, as the b tells you. docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#typebytes
I'll be happy to help, but it will have to wait until after I wake up.
confuse... how do you use it as a list index?
The elements of b'...' are integers. Try b'*'[0].
now I need to make the codepage
Of course, the 95 printable ascii first
8:27 AM
Allo allo!
My keyboard seems to be able to write 213 unique characters (without using hex codes).
Anyone know why ÿ is a composition of ¨ and y, but Ÿ isn't?
Someone is staying up real late @Dennis :-D
Thanks for the feedback on the natural-number challenge!
Q: Interpret loose ranges

downrep_nationInterpret loose ranges ListSharp is an interpreted programming language that has many features, one of those features is a 1 index based range creator that works like this: You define a range as (INT) TO (INT) or just (INT) where both or the single int can go from min to max int32 value Then y...

@LuisMendo Yeah, can't sleep. I'll try again in a while.
@Emigna Not exactly, but that letter is weird. Lowercase is U+00FF, uppercase in U+0178.
Can't sleep at 4:30 am?
8:38 AM
Yeah. I wonder if there is a reason for that. Can't easily write it on the keyboard due to that.
"When he woke up, the 100k rep was already there"
Congrats, @Dennis!!
hello i am not here
8:56 AM
Can someone chat-ban @TùxCräftîñg ? At this point it feels like he is just trolling: his second chat post of the day is deleted and he wasn't even talking to anyone
@Fatalize mod flag and link to the meta post?
on mobile now so i cant @Fatalize cc @trichoplax
@Dennis congrats!!1!!!100000
Congratulations @Dennis on being the second ever Programming Puzzles & Code Golf user to reach 100k rep!
@TùxCräftîñg I usually have some leniency with people deleting a message as a one off, but since you do it often enough to annoy a range of people, you're getting kicked for it. Please think before deleting posts that could happily stay in the transcript
@mınxomaτ Thanks for drawing my attention. I'd much rather hear complaints than quietly lose interesting chatters
9:19 AM
@trichoplax (removed)
@orlp (kicked)
CMC: post a weird unicode char
Please note that (removed) just before another message can be the result of trying to edit on the mobile chat, which sometimes results in the message being deleted and reposted. This obviously won't be held against anyone...
@DestructibleWatermelon 𒀘
you cant compete against that
9:37 AM
cannot see it :(
@DestructibleWatermelon ⛳
+1 for one I can see
except it isn't really fair to star
-1 for outdoor golf themed...
@DestructibleWatermelon You like it because it has your colours
no, because it is bizarre
9:40 AM
what does a code golf course look like?
> The Grid. A digital frontier. I tried to picture clusters of information as they moved through the computer. What did they look like? Ships? motorcycles? Were the circuits like freeways? I kept dreaming of a world I thought I'd never see. And then, one day...
its the most weird & assymetric cuneiform symbol in unicode
But........ Why does it exist?
for most other characters it's internationalization but here...
Looks to me like its the start of a mathematical proof for the area of a convey 4-gon if you zoom in reeeeeeaaaallllly close
9:54 AM
wait nvm i found a weirder symbol
That's about where androids unicode support ends
@7H3_H4CK3R You can edit your recent posts by pressing up or by clicking on the drop down arrow to the left of your message, if that helps
If you look sideways it resembles a ship... Kinda....
@trichoplax thanks for the info. Does it also work for mobile?
There's a mobile website version, and an app, and in theory you can edit on both but they don't seem to have fixed all the bugs yet
9:58 AM
there is chat on the SE app?
I think it is - I may be wrong - will check now...
Well, kind of... It only opens chat in an internal browser frame
The se app should probably integrate better chat support
98/100 for fanatic :D
@TùxCräftîñg waaat
10:04 AM
There is?!?!
No, @TùxCräftîñg is right, there isn't a real chat app. I was mistaken
Was there an unofficial chat app? I heard something a while back but didn't need a chat app so didn't look into it
10:09 AM
paku paku face (not really): ᑈ
Ⅸ < this is one character
Ɯ < two characters
I'm thinking of posting on Meta to announce I'm not going to accept answers anymore, and considering removing all my old acceptances.
ſ̉ <- wat
I don't think you can unaccept
10:14 AM
ſ + ̉
@betseg You can, but I'd like to hear the community's thoughts before doing it in case there's a reason not to
TIL I have can type this: IJ with my keyboard
@trichoplax it gets locked until an edit or a new answer if im not mistaken
Up and downvoting both get locked, but you can always remove the accept tick (you might want to apply it to a new answer, even if the old answer hasn't been edited)
10:19 AM
why do I even have that on my keyboard
fi fl ff ffi ffl < 5 chars
i have it with my compose key
alt + shift + e then f on mine
alt-gr + f + , for me
10:21 AM
@trichoplax I don't think that's worth a meta post. IMO it's best to just silently stop accepting answers. I'm not so sure unaccepting answers en masse would be a good idea - I'd imagine you'd get some backlash from SE.
@Fatalize CP437 0x9F
It executes a function on top of the stack :P
At least that one is mnemonic
Sy is hardly borked but anyway i will put it on GH
Yep, that one was chosen back when I had good choices :P
10:24 AM
CM update: Eleven: Do not uppercase unnecessarily mods eleven'd the app that yelled at them
@Mego Thanks for the thoughts - this is why I wanted to mention it in chat rather than going straight to meta. Do you mean official backlash from the company rather than the community?
@Mego Did you get your call?
@betseg So "Eleven" isn't just a TNB thing?
@trichoplax it's the name of the app :D
10:36 AM
Ha ha I'll go back to sleep... :)
@trichoplax No I mean you'll probably get some sort of ban from the system
@TùxCräftîñg i think you should stop making small langs and develop one lang hard
@Fatalize Not yet. I tried calling my recruiter yesterday, but she was out of the office
10:41 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

sanchisesInspired by this awesome answer. Testcases based on that answer are coming up. Sandbox questions: Obviously, is the challenge any fun? Is there something unclear in the explanation? Is there a 'domino falling rule' I forgot? Create a Dominoes interpreter Challenge Create a function or prog...

Did you know Old Turkic Script had a symbol for "oq" sound? "𐰸"
@Mego Ah I see. I might unaccept one a week, or just not accept for future challenges
11:14 AM
@Dennis That's how I started with Seriously. Now stack-based programming comes naturally to me.
Space thingy happening live in 5 minutes - livestream.com/ESA/rosettagrandfinale
Spacecraft Rosetta colliding with comet
@Sherlock9 I feel dumb. Even with the LCM builtin, I can't seem to solve the Carmichael function challenge :P
Also wow, we don't seem to have just a basic LCM challenge
I need to decide on the unicode characters for the commands in my language... halp please mebbe?
11:24 AM
for complex commands use 'namespaces'
ie ms for sin (math sin)
also kind of weird coming from the guy with all the superfluous accents
I feel like I have an obligation somehow to include ⛳...
Ello ello
11:27 AM
olle ollE
hmmm, so many cool unrelated unicode chars... (♖ for example)
@DestructibleWatermelon Are you working on your golfed Turtled?
esolangs.org/wiki/Sclipting < the most dense esolang
A: Graduation Design Ideas

MaltysenNo relation to the sport golf There should be nothing related to actual golf in the design. Our name may make for good puns, but it would be way too cheesy to be used.

not really
golfscript is shorter most times
11:28 AM
well sclipting have a lot of commands
also, must include ⛄ (oh wait that isn't as cool as the one I saw in the unicode browser)
🐢 must obviously be included
what character for terminators of loops and stuff?
Something bracket-y
When will Dennis wake up and see 100k rep? :D
11:33 AM
Or anything with a clear contrast really.
I think it's 7:30 in his timezone
@DestructibleWatermelon ⊐
11:36 AM
can't see
Does Dennis have 100k?
@Qwerp-Derp ye
Oh yeah
11:38 AM
you said 'too small' :P
something that might be a thing for writing hello:
oh jeez, the pencil is even smaller in chat
that's better
Unicode character fest?
I'm in 😄
11:44 AM
↶↷ is good for turning, any better?
i will try to understand logic programming and create a logic language
@DestructibleWatermelon ↩↪ are objectively more emoji.
why do I care about emoji
also they don't have the right look
because I want it to curve and point at the top, not the bottom
@Sherlock9 planning on posting the divisor tree challenge? :) 6 upvotes isn't bad for being in the Sandbox :)
11:47 AM
@betseg Gersberms, mah frevrit lang
what char for setting the string variable pls
@zyabin101 i think this is LOLCODE
@DestructibleWatermelon "
I meant unicode
11:48 AM
@betseg Nope, it's a meme.
eg π←3.14
I kind of want there to be mainly unicode chars for writing, and use the ascii chars last
ehhh, maybe I'm going about this the wrong way, I guess...
11:49 AM
@StewieGriffin I thought the rule was wait a bit after a major change
@Mego It takes some work. The Wikipedia page isn't very helpful
I like how there are three chars that are indistinguishable except when viewed up close
@Sherlock9 Can you explain how to compute it using LCM? I'm not able to follow your explanation in your post for some reason.
@Mego @Dennis This has been my trajectory with stack-based languages
I hope to do the same with Jelly and other tacit languages
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MegoLeast Common Multiple Given at least two positive integers as input, output their least common multiple. Rules Builtins are allowed, but you are encouraged to include a solution that does not use GCD/LCM builtins. All inputs and outputs will be within the natively-representable range for your...

⛤⛥⛦: also they don't render consistently at all (can't see them here)
now to find good loop chars
11:55 AM
Zoomed in full they look only a pixel or so different. Is the difference that two of them have gaps where the lines overlap, and go in opposite directions?
regex need a \w like thing but without the numerals :/
one of them has overlap merged, the other two have gaps where it's written over by other lines or whatever
the two differ because of handedness
one is the mirror image of the other
I don't remember why, but I got the idea that I should save the ascii command values for less essential things
which seems weird to me now
I'm starting to think I should go back now... but then again, I guess I still have the rest of the byte anyway
because I already have 95 values
I guess I could do some witchery with 7 bit commands, but that would be difficult
maybe I could make it so that ascii chars just make some kind of while loop with the ascii char as the value to check to
I could also make loops that have an implicit ▶ at the end...
12:23 PM
Dang it
My brain's still in Mountain time, just woke up 2 hours late
ruby class static variables are shared agains subclasses of the parent class
@ruby ಠ_ಠ
Q: Make Ascii buildings with arguments

Zesty CitrusMake 2d ASCII buildings, with variable-length command-line arguments. eg an input of 5,3,6 would output ┌──┐ │┌┐│ ┌──┐ │└┘│ │┌┐│ │┌┐│ │└┘│ │└┘│ │┌┐│ │┌┐│ │└┘│ ┌──┐ │└┘│ │┌┐│ │┌┐│ │┌┐│ │└┘│ │└┘│ │└┘│ │┌┐│ │┌┐│ │┌┐│ │└┘│ │└┘│ │└┘│ │┌┐│ │┌┐│ │┌┐│ │└┘│ │└┘│ ...

@NewMainPosts iz not ascii
Currently the tag mentions only the 95 printable ASCII characters. Should this be extended to say "and sometimes one of the extended versions of ASCII" or should the tag only be used for 7 bit ASCII?
TIL Obama did an AMA on reddit...
12:35 PM
@trichoplax Either it should only be used for printable ASCII (including spaces and newlines), or it should have a better name (like ).
I'm in favor of the second
I can't believe some laptops in 2016 still ship with 100MbE ports.
@Mego The second does seem generally useful. I wonder if both could coexist? Like we have and
Augh, I hate the slow reply time for the highlight.js repo
When are they ever going to reply (if at all)?
Quality code review takes time.
12:40 PM
@trichoplax is a subset of . exists because there's a need for a catch-all tag for stuff that doesn't really fit into the other tags. Using instead of would be better in my opinion. Having two tags for basically the same thing is unnecessary.
This is not some random JS mess, this is a serious plugin used in serious software.
@mınxomaτ Sigh... true, I probably need to be more patient
@mınxomaτ Seriously?
Yes (to both).
But I don't really like the looks of things... some of the reviews take a week to do
12:42 PM
That's a pretty good response time.
animal[X] -> bird[X];
Fact(RuleDef(Name("bird"), [Name("Flappy")]))
Rule(RuleDef(Name("animal"), [Name("X")]), Call(Name("bird"), [Name("X")]))
I probably couldn't be bothered to review some random PR in a week.
correctly parsed \o/
But for something this important, it really shouldn't take long.
@Qwerp-Derp Well, it depends on the importance of your addition (In the grand scheme of things.).
12:43 PM
But there should be plenty of people in a project with this scale (yet there seems to be only 1 or 2 people in highlight.js that can actually do anything).
There should be someone who can reply within 13 hours.
@Mego Would that mean that the tag should include things similar to in that each challenge would need to explicitly specify encoding?
13 hours is half the SLA'ed response time for most enterprise class services. So no, that's definitively not required for FOSS projects.
Wot are those
A service-level agreement (SLA) is defined as an official commitment that prevails between a service provider and the customer. Particular aspects of the service – quality, availability, responsibilities – are agreed between the service provider and the service user. The most common component of SLA is that the services should be provided to the customer as agreed upon in the contract. As an example, Internet service providers and telcos will commonly include service level agreements within the terms of their contracts with customers to define the level(s) of service being sold in plain language...
Free and open-source software (FOSS) is computer software that can be classified as both free software and open-source software. That is, anyone is freely licensed to use, copy, study, and change the software in any way, and the source code is openly shared so that people are encouraged to voluntarily improve the design of the software. This is in contrast to proprietary software, where the software is under restrictive copyright and the source code is usually hidden from the users. The benefits of using FOSS can include decreasing software costs, increasing security and stability (especially in...
Wait it's half the time in an SLA?
12:46 PM
The usual ones.
@TimmyD I don't think so. As long as the characters match in some encoding, it's fine.
Example: For a German data centre we colo in, the SLA is 30h for hardware failures (for a drive).
People, a SPAAACE-themed xkcd was released:
Doesn't really matter in RAID 10/50, but still.
12:47 PM
@Mego I think having something more specific than "text" is unnecessary, so the only reason to cling to "ASCII" is that ASCII art is a well known term. I suppose it could be used as a synonym, but then it won't mean just the 95 characters. Maybe this should go to meta?
@trichoplax I agree it should go to meta. I was just expressing my views on the subject. :)
@Mego Sorry. Meant to reply and IRL stuff started up
@TimmyD For example: if you needed to output Σ, \xCE\xA3 (UTF-8), \xE4 (CP437) and \x59 (CP875) would all be acceptable.
@Mego I like your views - they make me realise this needs a longer discussion on meta...
@Mego Ah, so you're arguing "does it visually look the same" rather than "this exact byte stream" -- I think that's a careful distinction where we need to be cautious.
12:51 PM
So, Euler totient of x is the product of the Euler totient of p_i**e_i that divides x. Carmichael of x is the LCM of Carmichael of those prime powers.
p_i being a prime that divides into x and e_i being the largest exponent such that p_i**e_i still divides into x.
@TimmyD For languages where the output encoding is fixed, "this exact byte stream" would be infeasible for some outputs
@Sherlock9 So lcm(product(totient(p**e) for p,e in prime_factorization(x)))
Wait no I'm still confused
lcm(totient(p**e) for p,e in prime_factorization(x))?
@Mego Yes, this one.
With the special case when p_i equals 2 and e_i is greater than 2 (i.e. 8 divides into x), you need to divide by 2
12:58 PM
Then why do I get 192 for 40320 when you get 96?
Is it because I'm missing the special case?
Ah yes, was just editing :D

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