English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2016-09-08

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user227867

00:09

@Tonepoet I have two thumbs and ten fingers.

Tonepoet

Is that counting the thumbs or not? I ask that because some people don't count thumbs as fingers. XP

1 hour later…

user227867

01:12

@Tonepoet That is including the thumbs, lol.

paulzag

02:12

Is this the right place to ask 1) why this answer was downvoted english.stackexchange.com/a/347284/194321 (not my answer) and 2) if I upvoted it would the "balance" out.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

02:31

@paulzag it's currently at -1 so if you upvote, it goes to zero

But it's not much of an answer. It suggests a phrase but does nothing to explain or substantiate it.

1 hour later…

paulzag

03:36

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Thanks for the answer. I guess it's minimalist, but it does answer the question. Oh well I'm learning

Tonepoet

04:36

@paulzag I suppose you could ask here, or on Meta but be sure to read through the Help Center first, and you should keep in mind that only the anonymous voter knows for sure. My guess is that although the line is idiomatic, it's unsubstantiated and lacks explanation. In order to differentiate ourselves from other sites for our answers Stack Exchange answer need to be based upon verified fact, disclosed expertise or trustworthy reference material.

Even if the voter doesn't care about those things, he might distrust the answer without the provided if he has never heard of them before, if we suppose that it's a dialectical phrase for instance. He may also just dislike the phase, even if it's a valid answer (since we use a mostly secret ballot, people can vote upon a mostly arbitrary basis, so long as they're not serial-voting).

6 hours later…

user227867

10:19

I just posted a question on the word 'pussy'.

Andrew Leach

10:30

Yes. I've never heard it used as a term of endearment, presumably because of the other connotation.

terdon

11:00

I have seen it used in writing, but I've also never heard it.

user227867

11:21

I hope the controversial word will get my question many views, LOL.

user227867

It's time for dinner now.

Matt E. Эллен

@JasperLoy because you weren't here when I ate them!

@Mitch I don't think so.

3 hours later…

tchrist

14:16

Is it, like, September already?

Andrew Leach

Not only already, but a week ago already.

tchrist

We seem to have an entire term's worth of September posts today.

Tonepoet

What's so special about September?

choster

New academic year, presumably

Mitch

14:38

@Tonepoet It has a history...Eternal September

MetaEd

Technically that's when September stopped being special.

Mitch

wait...how can you tell it's September if it's always September

MetaEd

jinx

Mitch

@MetaEd September is when traffic gets bad because everyone is back from vacation.

MetaEd

I remember before Eternal September. I was there.

Mitch

14:39

That's like when before Skynet achieved consciousness

What was it like?

Did tomatoes taste sweet?

Could you see the sky?

Tonepoet

@Mitch Punches Mitch

You spoke while jinxed so I get to punch you in the arm. =P

Mitch

@Tonepoet That's not how it works. MetaEd might.

user227867

15:14

OMG, I got 1000 views for my question posted a few hours ago!

Tonepoet

Terdon's answer is interesting.

user227867

@Tonepoet I must thank you for recommending me the AHD!

Tonepoet

Is that where you got the idea?

user227867

Yes, indeed, LOL.

user227867

I am very happy because I never got 13 votes for a question.

user227867

15:19

But considering there are 1000 views I really should get at least 40 votes.

user227867

Does it mean I can start calling people pussy now?

Mitch

@JasperLoy It should get a badge for fastest views per unit time.

@JasperLoy No, it does not.

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy You stand a good chance of doing that since your question is presently a hot question.

Mitch

Or rather, it doesn't change anything.

MetaEd

@Tonepoet Actually, he owes me a Coke.

user227867

15:23

@Tonepoet I think this is a sign for me to now purchase the AHD, and this is a sign that I will make it to America!

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy It's a shame that the American English - what is the best dictionary? question on meta got put on hold as Primarily Opinion Based. Aside from that for being an odd reason for closure on Meta, I'm sure you could've written an interesting answer given how much you've researched the contemporary dictionaries.

Also I sent you an email. One of the paragraphs is a little choppy because I forgot to finish it.

user227867

@Tonepoet If you meant the one sent a few hours ago, I have already replied to it.

Tonepoet

Ah, I see.

Færd

15:40

When you flip a coin, do you assign heads and tails to things, or do you assign things to heads and tails? Which way does assign work?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Færd I think you can look at it either way

I can assign work to you, or assign you to a task

For your first assignment, I'd like you to come weed my lawn.

Mitch

@Tonepoet weird. The OP is pretty underspecified. Is this related to the recent question "which dictionary is best to buy?"

Færd

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Great. It always confused me.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So we can say that the assignment is assigned to me, or I'm assigned to do it.

Tonepoet

@Mitch I don't know which question that is, nor can I find it on Meta but judging from the fact that there's a comment from 2013, I doubt it. Eye kant reed.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Færd I think so, yes

Færd

15:52

Thanks.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

16:06

whoa, I just noticed that Mari-Lou A has been suspended for a year!

Tonepoet

!!!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Last-seen Sept 2, but the suspension ends Sept 7, meaning she was suspended 5 days after whatever rule it was she broke.

Færd

Life has its forceful ways to detach you from old things and give you new occupations. Can be very constructive for some.

Mitch

16:27

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Very strange. Most of her activity stopped on August 24th, two weeks ago. Of course, activity since then may have been deleted.

Andrew Leach

16:49

Please don't discuss suspensions in chat.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@AndrewLeach really?

Isn't it instructive to know why users are suspended, so that their misbehavior can serve as a lesson to others?

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah. Experience has shown that it is generally a bad idea. The suspended user can't take part in the discussion. The mods can't share the reason for the suspension. Therefore, the discussion can only be speculation and is often taken badly by the person being discussed.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@terdon It seems odd to me that mods can't share reasons for suspension.

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Suspension details are private. Mods can't explain them unless the suspended user gives explicit permission.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's like if the police jailed you but couldn't tell anyone why

@terdon I see no reason why that is necessarily the case.

terdon

17:02

Well, no. Suspension means something bad was done by the user in question. You know the rules, you know what "bad behavior" is, there's no need to advertise exactly which of the various rules was broken.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@terdon not necessarily. I think I know the rules.

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, them's the rules from on high. Suspensions are deemed private by SE. But I do agree with it. The idea behind suspensions is that someone can come back and no harm done as long as they behave themselves. Airing their dirty laundry in public would make that hard.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You do, there's no seeecret rule you might run afoul of. Don't worry :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@terdon If the rule breaking was done privately, then I'd agree. If the rule-breaking was done publicly, then I disagree. Besides, there's also the question of accountability. The police aren't always right.

@terdon But obviously, this isn't just about me. There are lots of users who know the rules less than I do.

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, presumably it was private, otherwise we'd know what happened.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@terdon Absent any explanation whatsoever, I can't assume that.

terdon

17:08

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, you could always ask one of the local mods but they are actually under orders not to tell you. Nothing specific, anyway.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

When I try to figure out what happened, I'm told not to even talk about it.

terdon

I'm trying to find the relevant meta discussions but the best I've come up with is:

152

Q: Avoid the Streisand Effect - be clear about the reason when suspending an account

This sort of thing has happened a few times now... "Hey, did you see? User X was boxed!" "User X? Why?" "I donno... Maybe he... " (wild speculation ensues. waffles are blamed.) It's generally quite easy to notice when a user gets thrown in The Penalty Box. You see the tell-tale 1 when...

feature-request status-completed account-suspension

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, that's the Mos Eisly effect, I think. The suspensions of certain users were discussed in chat and that led to a huge storm in a teacup.

Andrew Leach

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's right. Speculation is not a good thing, because no-one who is in a position to confirm or deny anything is actually permitted to do that.

So: please don't discuss suspensions in chat.

terdon

Which, in turn, led to the general idea that such things are best left alone and are nobody's business but the suspended user's.

user227867

My pussy question has over 1600 views now.

user227867

17:12

I can use 21 more upvotes on it to reach rep cap.

NVZ

@JasperLoy So, caps, huh? I prefer hats.

user227867

I did not know you cannoy buy alcohol in Russia after 11 PM. Wow, Russia is so conservative.

NVZ

@JasperLoy won't that automatically raise a flag on your comment?

user227867

@NVZ No, because a pussy is a cat. But I don't know.

NVZ

@JasperLoy yea, and the other words are Richard, rooster, etc. :/

user227867

17:18

@NVZ I do not think there are autoflags in chat.

NVZ

That question sure surprised me.

Like a knee-jerk, I was about to flag it, but had to read it. Nice question, hey. :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@AndrewLeach So mods can't say anything because TPTB don't want them to; there is no transparency; it's a police state; don't try to figure it out; cross your fingers that you don't run afoul of the rules. got it.

user227867

@NVZ Why would you flag it? Questions about offensive words are certainly on topic.

NVZ

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 exactly. "Stack Exchange is run by you", not in these matters, though. :)

@JasperLoy I didn't. I just told you that I had a sudden urge to flag. But I calmed down. :)

user227867

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Besides Mari-Lou A, Josh61 renamed to xxxxxx is also suspended, and both seem to be from Italy. We will not discuss the matter further, as the mods have told us not to.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:22

I can understand some judicious use of "private" suspensions. But ~~this~~ some suspensions are a year-long thing, they must have been egregious.

user227867

@NVZ Then I must say you are very impulsive, even if you did not actually flag it.

NVZ

@JasperLoy Maybe cuz I'm young? Hot-headed, cold-hearted. LOL

user227867

@NVZ We are all young. The oldest woman in the world lived till 120.

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah. Or a lot of minor offenses over a long period of time. It might not be a single thing. Either way, it really is something that only the user can choose to disclose.

user227867

I hope my mum lives till 120 and I live till 90, and then we can leave this world on the same night.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:24

@terdon so, a lot of minor things over a period of time could lead to a sudden 1-year suspension?

wouldn't they lead to shorter suspensions instead?

terdon

Dunno, maybe?

I can imagine situations where this could happen. Say a mod discovered that a user has been consistently acting badly and hiding their tracks. The mod in question stumbles upon the hidden evidence and suspends for the entire set of actions at once.

Or, a user has been consistently ignoring mod advice and requests to modify their behavior. I really don't know what happened here, all I can say is that discussing such things rarely leads to anything good.

NVZ

@JasperLoy My grandpa had made it to 96. Great man, he was. Raised a biiiig family. He got to see great grand children.

user227867

@NVZ Strange thing that the top 10 oldest people in the world are all women and not men.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@NVZ you're so modest, referring to yourself and your cousins/siblings as "great"

user227867

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And also grand.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:27

@JasperLoy that'd be NVZ's parent, then.

NVZ

@JasperLoy men led wars, and to a decrease in their population

Færd

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Aren't we all children of our ancestors?

user227867

Even though I did many naughty things on SE, they never suspended me on the main sites.

NVZ

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 come on, let me be great. :)

user227867

Maybe each time they wanted to suspend me, I had already deleted my account.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:29

@NVZ it reminds me of the time I explained to my son about his ancestors. The next day he said to my mom, "Grandmaman! We have so many grand-parents! Some of them are really great"

user227867

However, avoiding suspension is not the reason for my deleting accounts.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Given that you make little effort to disguise your identity with each new account, I'm sure if someone wanted you suspended, you would be.

Færd

Realgreatgrandparents!

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What do you mean? He changes his profile picture every time. He just has the same skin color.

NVZ

@JasperLoy you shed skins like a snake, or die and return like a phoenix.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 but how can you be so sure it's all the same person? Maybe Jasper Loy is my sockpuppy.

or puppet.

user227867

17:33

I have gotten many answers and comments on my pussy question. Now I will start reading them. I have not even started!

terdon

user image

NVZ

@JasperLoy stop mentioning that. It's strangely annoying.

Please!

:)

Færd

Can whether be used to mean no matter whether?

> ? Whether I come with you or not, you should go.

> No matter whether I come with you or not, you should go.

Are there better ways to say that?

NVZ

@Færd

4

A: usage of "no matter...or"

The phrase “no matter” is not correctly used in your example sentence. One can add the word whether and correctly say “no matter whether in study or in life”. However, that is somewhat clumsy, and phrasings like “whether in study or in life”, “both in study and in life”, and “in study and in ...

Færd

@NVZ Thanks.

NVZ

17:38

Maybe it's better said like this... "It doesn't matter whether you're wrong or right, I win..."

@Færd but it's only my guess. I'm not a native speaker.

Færd

Based on that answer, provided much help for me whether in study or in life is possible. Mine is a bit different.

user227867

@terdon There is no need to thank me for the rep cap today.

NVZ

@Færd Try asking @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 or @FumbleFingers

terdon

@JasperLoy :)

Færd

@NVZ I shoot my questions and hope to get answers. I don't like pressuring people here by pinging them in my questions. :)

@NVZ That's a nice alternative.

NVZ

17:42

@Færd I see. There's no pressure. We are all here to help each other learn.

Færd

Still.

Sometimes I have a special question that I have to ask a special person about it. That would be different.

MetaEd

18:12

Are we having fun yet?

Mitch

@NVZ In the past few years there's been a famous punk band from Russia who've been in the news protesting the Russian government. And the English version (translation?) of their name involves that word. I think it was simply a ploy to get newscasters to say the word.

@MetaEd Not yet. I have a handful of old firecrackers but no lighter. No one smokes any more!

Kit Z. Fox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 There are vanishingly few rules that you can break when you are already suspended.

Also, suspensions increase in a set fashion.

user227867

18:34

Hello @Kit! Did you see my pussy question?

Kit Z. Fox

I did.

Mitch

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Or there's a calendar anomaly coming up that is automatically rendered by the time-server calculations. Please let it happen on a Monday so that the next day is Saturday!

Woo hoo! 1 day work week!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch That would totally mess with Seventh-Day adventists

user227867

They should have a calendar store that sells different calendars beginning with all seven different days of the week.

user227867

I like mine to begin on Monday, but the ones here begin on Sunday, following the Americans.

Mitch

18:39

@JasperLoy There's an internet startup that's already out of business for that.

user227867

I can set my computer calendar to start on Monday though.

user227867

Mentally, I have associated Monday with 1 and Sunday with 7, and it would be strange to mess up this order.

user227867

Similarly, I have associated January with 1 and December with 12.

Mitch

@JasperLoy You're a real cock of the morning, aren't you.

@JasperLoy You should really go zero based. Monday = 0, Sunday = 6

user227867

I have actually heard cocks at 6 AM in the morning.

user227867

18:42

I have no idea where they come from, since I live in an urban area, not a farm.

Mitch

But you're in good company because Java's Date class is mixed base

user227867

It might just be somebody's alarm clock with a cock sound.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy like the Chinese method.

Mitch

@JasperLoy I've heard a cock at 3am (still dark)

user227867

But there are often small birds chirping outside my window around the clock.

user227867

18:43

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I just noticed it, now that you mention it.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Those aren't cocks

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy lol, really?

user227867

@Mitch They are probably mynahs which are pretty common here.

Mitch

@JasperLoy That's a load of cock and bull

user227867

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes. I know what they are called, but never observed the direct association.

Mitch

18:44

You've really cocked that up.

I cock my hat at you, good sir!

user227867

@Mitch Not joking. A mynah is a bird. Did you know that?

Mitch

@JasperLoy A mynah is no cock

user227867

Not only are cocks birds, but tits, bustards, and boobies are birds too. Did you know that?

user227867

It's pretty amazing, this English language.

NVZ

@JasperLoy where are you going with this?

Mitch

18:48

When roosters crow they say cock a doodle doo. What does doodle doo have to do with it?

user227867

@NVZ Nowhere. It is finished.

Mitch

@NVZ He's cocking his taboo gun at you.

BUt you're trying to put a cock in it.

NVZ

@Mitch do crows roost?

Mitch

@NVZ That's a cock-a-mamie thing to say. Of course they do.

user227867

I think it is very strange that Collins publishes a new edition of its biggest English dictionary every three or four years.

user227867

18:50

Don't you think that is too frequent? Is there even any quality control?

user227867

2007, 2010, 2011, 2014 are the last 4 editions.

user227867

2010 was a special anniversary edition though.

Mitch

They should have continuous deployment. Every edit approved should be published online immediately.

Ah...of course... they're publishing paper books to encourage rebuying.

NVZ

@JasperLoy two possible reasons. Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like an apple.

user227867

In contrast, Oxford needs to publish its biggest single volume one more often. Last one is 2010, 6 years ago...

user227867

18:53

@NVZ Wrong, they prefer bananas.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Or maybe the date pattern is an encoded signal to the aliens to invade. WHat's the next expected date of publication?

user227867

@Mitch I do want to rebuy, but 3 years is too frequent for me, which is why that would be one reason not to buy it at all and buy another one!

user227867

@NVZ I first heard this from my beloved math professor.

NVZ

@Mitch by that trend, 2015.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Really, all the good words have already been invented. All that's left is new cockings.

@NVZ What?

And yet there was none that year.

user227867

18:55

@Mitch I learnt 'manspreading' and 'dadbod' recently from watching a Collins video.

Mitch

shudders

NVZ

@Mitch 2007, 2010, 2011, 2014... So next I suppose should've been 2015

Mitch

@JasperLoy OK there you go. a couple of words that will die good deaths by not being used by any body ever again.

mansplaining however is alive and well.

I could explain mansplaining to the women here but I'd cock it all up.

user227867

Also, I have been waiting for the 12th edition of MW Collegiate to be published. Last edition in 2003...

Mitch

@JasperLoy That's obviously code to the Bejorans to warn them of the Cardassian invasion.

user227867

18:58

I think the MW editors are probably very busy trying to get W4 out, since W3 has not been revised heavily since 1961.

NVZ

@JasperLoy I time travelled, I was your professor.

Alright. Tata

user227867

They started work on W4 in 2008.

user227867

W4 will be the biggest American dictionary ever produced.

user227867

It should go up to 3000 pages.

user227867

Robusto puts his W3 on a stand at home, which also functions as a shrine.

Mitch

18:59

Wikipedia is continuously published.

They are losing editors slowly. At some point, there will be no editors and people will accept it as gospel.

No more new facts.

user227867

Wikipedia's English is quite bad these days.

Mitch

Nothing is new under the sun.

user227867

Maybe I have been reading more from it lately.

Mitch

Do you see lots of spelling and grammar errors?

user227867

Lots of comma splices and misspellings.

Mitch

19:01

Oh

I would think they'd have an auto-check feature that puts any possible misspelling in front of an editor queue.

comma splices I'd think are impossible to check automatically (as of now).

user227867

Does the Microsoft grammar checker work? It seems to be very problematic.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson hey!

You came in just as we finished a rooster/kitty fight.

@JasperLoy it's... OK (lots of false positives).

user227867

My hair has stopped dropping. Good news.

Mitch

But also, you can't use it as a service.

user227867

But what has dropped is not growing back. Bad news.

user227867

19:06

I am going offline now, see you later.

Johan Larsson

@Mitch hej

@JasperLoy I can't think of one single m$ thing that is not broken.

But then again it is hard to think of anything in software that works.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson so you can't blame MS that much.

Johan Larsson

when reading m$ sources it reeks of waterfall and meetings

meetings are slippery turds

Mitch

Every time I hear a complaint about Excel, I feel like I have to defend MS.

Then I realize that they made their decisions on purpose.

Andrew Leach

@JohanLarsson Well, Skype for Business works. And even Lync worked.

At least on Windows.

Johan Larsson

19:19

whoa, skype s very broken

Andrew Leach

...?

Johan Larsson

skype for business is lync, the exe is stil nemaed lync.exe

Andrew Leach

Well, it works. It does what it says on the tin (TM).

Johan Larsson

@AndrewLeach can't think of examples right now but now I have been annoyed with it :)

I dislike that it does not one box images but maybe there is a setting for that

also it inserts smileys when I paste code :D

Andrew Leach

The only bit which really doesn't work is Windows Mobile. But I blame the OS.

Johan Larsson

19:22

@Mitch working with charts in excel is awesome, zooming etc :D

Andrew Leach

I had a SfB chat on my phone yesterday morning which I can't even find on my phone, let alone anywhere else. The Mobile client is broken.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson The UI seems...unfinished. Like there are all sorts of simple efficiencies and niceties that could be done (and are done in every other app) but are just not there. managemenat of contacts eg.

Andrew Leach

Contacts in Excel?

Mitch

@JohanLarsson defaults on graphics are notoriously the wrong design decision, and difficult to rearrange to get right and stay right.

@AndrewLeach sorry... skype.

sorry...gotta run! later!

Johan Larsson

old messenger was a nice chat client

Andrew Leach

19:25

Yes, better integration with Office/Outlook would be nice. But that doesn't mean Skype for Business is broken.

Not there, anyway.

Johan Larsson

@AndrewLeach also skype for business does not allow fixing typos

more a missing feature than broken

Andrew Leach

Why am I defending Microsoft??!!

2

Arggh.

MetaEd

Investigating taboo language is fine. Wordplay is fine. Wordplay using taboo language is maybe a gray area. Vulgar or sexually suggestive attention to another user is going too far.

3

Andrew Leach

Guess what? My Yodel-delivered packaged arrived :-)

user image

It's a bit lighter than that, almost green, but fits with the pieces I inherited.

@JohanLarsson Number achieved :-)

Johan Larsson

very nice work!

i answered a question today but got zero

probably two more years before I get 10k

Andrew Leach

19:37

Don't forget that figure is a total of all my accounts.

Mitch

@MetaEd Why so cocky?

runs away

user227867

20:00

@AndrewLeach Rather, all accounts with at least 200 rep, I think.

Andrew Leach

Oh, if you say so. I never bothered counting. It's just a number (albeit a nice round number)

user227867

@MetaEd I see my message has been removed. Not a problem at all. But I wasn't being sexually suggestive to Kit Fox, who is my friend.

user227867

And also, I was not attempting any wordplay. Just a casual conversation. I am not good at playing with words in the first place.

Tonepoet

21:40

@JasperLoy Worth note is that although Pussy has historical attestation as a term of endearment, it's more dialectical, rare and maybe even archaic than the derogatory sense so it's not going to have the effect you desire upon most people. The assessment of rareness is based upon the video you linked me yesterday, which notes that the A.H.D. prioritizes meanings based upon popular usage.

user227867

@Tonepoet Wait, is this message a direct reply to what you replied to, or just a ping?

Tonepoet

It's mostly a ping but I also wanted @MetaEd the circumstance behind your rationale since I'm not sure if he saw your question already.

user227867

@Tonepoet Oh, I did not even mean it as a term of endearment. What I said is simple. I said 'too bad a pussy is a cat and not a fox'. It just means that if it meant a fox, the word 'pussy' under discussion would be related to her, since the cat and the fox are two different animals. That is all. As simple as that, lol.

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy Since the comment was removed, it's probably a bad idea to repeat it. XD

user227867

@Tonepoet Hmm, did someone flag it? Was someone upset about it?

Tonepoet

21:46

I don't know. What I do know is that I already regret saying the word "idea" like that...

user227867

I think only metaed was suspicious about it, but maybe I am wrong. If anyone wants to talk about it, feel free to tell me directly.

user227867

Anyway, I have already pinged metaed in the private room he set up with the above explanation as well.

user227867

As you can see, there is nothing suggestive or offensive or inappropriate or dark about what I said. QED.

user227867

I would be very disappointed if anyone thinks otherwise.

user227867

Anyway, the last time a moderator set up a room with me was when I cast delete votes on Mitch's answers.

Tonepoet

21:59

Ah, I see. The problem is that it's a perverse word, in a manner similar to how the word perverse often has its meaning perverted.. If I had a button that could make everybody use old enough words as they were used in the 19th century, I'd probably press it.

user227867

I was trying to help him get rid of the negative rep, and then tchrist saw the votes in the delete queue and thought someone was trying to vandalise his posts, and then waiwai investigated and set up a room with me.

user227867

@Tonepoet I do realise by now (since I am an old man) that others often misunderstand me, because I often think in strange ways that are still perfectly logical to me.

user227867

Anyway, I hope Kit did not misunderstand, and if she did, she should contact me directly. So I am not going to worry about it!

user227867

@Tonepoet There are often many possible interpretations of a situation. Sometimes, we are more likely to view a situation in a certain way because of our unique, personal life experiences.

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy That's odd given that forced deletion of negatively voted posts is a standardized part of the system. I wouldn't even begin to think of that as vandalism, so much as clean-up. Now edits to the post on the other hand might cause me some concern, but that's different. Also, why would somebody need help with that? It's easy to delete your own posts if you'd prefer the rep. to the publication. Was it harder back then?

user227867

22:08

@Tonepoet Well, I could cast votes and I liked to look at Mitch's posts, so I sort of thought I was just trying to be helpful to him. I did not think then that he would have preferred to have a whole bunch of minus voted answers.

user227867

Also, I was not sure whether I was suspended from chat just now, since I went offline, but even if I were, it's OK! I understand! No problem at all.

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy Oh I see, so you got a whole flood of his posts put on the deletion queue.

user227867

@Tonepoet Yes, indeed.

user227867

Actually, just about five, only a handful, since a hand has five fingers.

user227867

@Tonepoet When I get into misunderstandings and try to explain myself, I know sometimes it seems that I am trying to cover up my tracks. But that's not the case. I don't lie about such things, even though others who are telling lies may appear to be doing things similar to what I am doing. I am also fully aware of that.

Tonepoet

22:12

@JasperLoy Actually that'd depend more upon the size of the posts being deleted than the number of fingers on a hand. Five dictionaries wouldn't fit in a single hand, or maybe not even five pages of a dictionary (if crumpled to fit entirely in the hand). XP

@JasperLoy I suppose many other people do too. I do at least.

user227867

@Tonepoet Nah, I know you are a good boy. =P

ktm5124

My boss is trying to use the phrase "hereto unexplored" in a proposal. Is this okay? It sounds correct but doesn't show up on ngrams.

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy The gender neutrality police called and insisted that I write you up a ticket for not saying "good kid."

ktm5124

If it is okay, do you think it's too archaic to use in a research proposal?

Tonepoet

@ktm5124 Hetero- what?

ktm5124

22:22

@Tonepoet "hereto unexplored"

hereto as in the adverb. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hereto

(also en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hereto)

Tonepoet

Oh, I misread, again.

@ktm5124 Yeah, it's rarely used in this sense these days but it does have a sense meaning something along the lines of "until now". I'm guessing it's along the lines of "We are going into the hereto unexplored caves." or something to that effect?

@ktm5124 Maybe heretofore is slightly better though.

@ktm5124 Hmm, actually upon reexamination the ngrams show no results for hereto unexplored. Heretofore unexplored gets usage though.

MetaEd

22:39

@JasperLoy What is this new dictionary you were talking about?

user227867

@MetaEd Oh I talk about new dictionaries all the time so I am not sure what you refer to. But I am seriously thinking about getting the American Heritage Dictionary for myself, that is all.

MetaEd

@JasperLoy That might have been it.

I'm looking back and I think it was Merriam-Webster.

user227867

Oh, from W3 to W4? Maybe.

user227867

Merriam-Webster has been working on the fourth edition of the unabridged dictionary since 2008.

Tonepoet

Only since 2008!

The third edition came out in the sixties! XD

MetaEd

22:44

Ah, unabridged. The only good kind.

ktm5124

@Tonepoet Yeah. I ended up abandoning the archaic expression altogether.

user227867

W3 has not been majorly revised since 1961.

MetaEd

@JasperLoy Online or on trees?

user227867

It has only been minorly revised and added upon with addenda.

user227867

@MetaEd On trees. It's already online at ahdictionary.com, a very beautiful website.

user227867

22:46

I will show you how beautiful the book is...

MetaEd

I'm sympathetic to having actual books except that I have to pay for a big enough place to live to keep all of them.

user227867

work.laurenvajda.com/American-Heritage-Dictionary

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy It's also the first result on The Free Dictionary by Farlex.

user227867

Look at the four beautiful pictures there.

user227867

@Tonepoet Ah, I hate amalgamation sites.

MetaEd

22:47

Very colorful. Nice. Could be a coffee table book.

user227867

What is special about AHD is this: W3 is too big and the Collegiate is a little too small, but AHD being a small unabridged is just nice.

MetaEd

Wouldn't it be nice if it would update itself.

user227867

You only need to buy a new copy once every 10 years, so it is OK.

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy How many words does it have?

user227867

@Tonepoet I have not been able to find out!

user227867

22:49

But the AH College Writer's D is really too small.

MetaEd

The print size?

user227867

Nope, the number of words, since it only has about 1000 pages.

user227867

I don't have the word count, so I am making guesses based on other properties.

Turbo

How would you say your help is "unthankable", but using a real term?

MetaEd

@Turbo What would that mean?

user227867

22:54

@Turbo I cannot thank you enough.

Turbo

@JasperLoy I cannot thank you enough :) Cheers!

user227867

@Turbo No words can express my gratitude.

Turbo

Yes that's better :)

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy Well my first edition copies of the American Heritage Dictionary are only comparable to the large print version of Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 10th edition. Both have 1500~ pages.

MetaEd

Y'all have fun, I'm heading for a family thing.

user227867

22:57

@MetaEd Have fun.

user227867

@Tonepoet I think that MW Collegiate is very similar to Concise OED in terms of word count and page count. 225,000 and 240,000; 1664 and 1728.

user227867

@Tonepoet You and I, we should totally set up a dictionary store, LOL.

Tonepoet

The fifth edition should be larger then since I also have the third edition which is thicker.

user227867

It is 2112 pages and about 3.6 kg.

user227867

Let me tell you how someone online ranked 5 dictionaries:

user227867

23:02

Shorter OED, MW Unabridged, AHD, NOAD, MW Collegiate.

user227867

That makes sense if we go by page count alone, lol.

user227867

So you see, if the first two are too BIG, then we get the AHD.

user227867

Also in the current state the first two are not sufficiently current, even though they are currently sufficient.

Tonepoet

Being fair to the Shorter O.E.D., since it's two volumes, you only ever half to hold one at a time.

user227867

I replied to your email.

user227867

23:05

That was hours ago.

Tonepoet

I saw.

user227867

AHD though looks like ADHD.

user227867

@Tonepoet I sometimes wonder whether I am autistic, since I often say and do things people interpret very differently.

user227867

Also, my obsession with dictionaries also suggests some kind of autism.

Tonepoet

Asperger's syndrome you suppose?

user227867

23:09

I am not a self appointed expert in Asperger's so I cannot comment, though I am a self appointed expert in OCD. =P

user227867

I am going to bed, goodnight @Tonepoet and email me more!

Tonepoet

@JasperLoy Alright.

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