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4:01 PM
@Undo, that's a good idea.
Do we have an easy way to see how often manual reports are used from various rooms
 
I think we could tease it out of metasmoke's why data
 
@Undo There really aren't too many bad reports that I can see. At least recently...
 
Hm. Metasmoke or lunch?
Lunch wins
 
Lunch at 11 AM? What kind of a monster are you?
 
@Undo there's that admin tool for you
 
4:05 PM
@hichris123 A hungry one
 
Apparently.
 
@hichris123 Its 6pm here
o_O
 
{
                "Charcoal HQ" => 91,
         "Tavern on the Meta" => 62,
    "SO Close Vote Reviewers" => 43
}
 
savages
 
^ manual reports by room
 
4:06 PM
Hey, I didn't even break the tests this time! \o/
sd f
 
heh that was a weird one
 
               "Undo" => 13,
              "bummi" => 50,
          "ArtOfCode" => 1,
              "Norma" => 4,
              "Quill" => 2,
        "Brock Adams" => 8,
           "Doorknob" => 1,
   "Alexander O'Mara" => 15,
          "Andrew T." => 5,
       "NathanOliver" => 1,
          "Ms Yvette" => 4,
       "Live Forever" => 11,
    "Awesome Poodles" => 1,
         "hichris123" => 6,
          "Wrzlprmft" => 6,
         "Tiny Giant" => 1,
     "Robert Longson" => 2,
             "Tunaki" => 7,
^ Users with manual reports
 
With all of @Marshmallow's names preserved.
 
deployed, but I think it's borken @ArtOfCode
 
@Undo Huh, so it is. Can't tell what, worked totally fine on my copy.
 
4:11 PM
I, [2016-04-07T16:10:55.588094 #28977]  INFO -- : Completed 500 Internal Server Error in 4ms (ActiveRecord: 1.1ms)
F, [2016-04-07T16:10:55.588681 #28977] FATAL -- :
F, [2016-04-07T16:10:55.588746 #28977] FATAL -- : NoMethodError (undefined method `id' for nil:NilClass):
F, [2016-04-07T16:10:55.588766 #28977] FATAL -- :
F, [2016-04-07T16:10:55.588781 #28977] FATAL -- : app/controllers/admin_controller.rb:14:in `user_feedback'
 
Wait, I'll bet you it's this line
That's odd...
Must be the one 2 above.
 
Why's my name not in that list?
 
.where(:user_id => @user.id) - but I assume that the previous find call would raise ActiveRecord::RecordNotFound if it couldn't find anything (i.e. @user == nil).
 
That's strange.
Oh wait, I've gotta run. Sorry @Undo, it'll have to be broken for a while - I may not have a good connection for a while (or any at all, for that matter).
 
4:17 PM
@ArtOfCode that's fine ;)
> You haven't received an email from me in a little while, so I want to take this opportunity to ask again for your input. I am interested in how top students are discovering great colleges.
that 'little while' was awesome
 
@Andy Because you're a bad person? ;P
Yeah, why don't Andy's reports show up on that list, @Undo? https://metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&title=&body=&username‌​=&why=manually+reported+by+user+*Andy*&site=&feedback=&reason=&user_rep_direction‌​=%3E%3D&user_reputation=0&commit=Search
 
@Andy That was before we recorded why data in MS
oh
there are two manually-reported reasons? o.O
 
@Undo who sent you that?
 
college recruiter
Checked the box on the SAT (maybe PSAT? I dunno) and they're doing exactly what they said they would
 
@Undo One for questions, one for answers
 
4:22 PM
ah, right
so here's the real list:
             "Tunaki" => 174,
              "bummi" => 110,
           "Doorknob" => 2,
          "Andrew T." => 17,
             "PeterJ" => 15,
          "Paul Roub" => 12,
         "hichris123" => 12,
              "Norma" => 5,
      "Shadow Wizard" => 9,
          "Wrzlprmft" => 13,
   "Alexander O'Mara" => 26,
               "Undo" => 19,
         "S.L. Barth" => 1,
         "Minestrone" => 4,
            "bwDraco" => 9,
               "Andy" => 9,
               "Kyll" => 4,
        "cybermonkey" => 5,
 
yay! I exist in that list
 
ordered by absolutely nothing.
 
Demonstrating the importance of grouping by an immutable identifier.
I count 84 reports by me under various names.
 
4:37 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted user: If shepards led the angel, who led the wise men? by vcbccbc vcbcvb on christianity.stackexchange.com
 
@SmokeDetector why
 
oh, that guy...
 
4:52 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted user: If shepards led the angel to baby Jesus, who led the wise men? by vcbccbc vcbcvb on christianity.stackexchange.com
 
@Marshmallow Got a second? I was looking at the tech support method, as there's been a few false positives with contact number. Why doesn't the key phrase part feed into the business checking part?
@SmokeDetector ignore- for now...
 
Dafuq tho
TIL christianity.SE exists
 
As do many other religious sites.
 
@hichris123 I think the business part failed to detect things, since we can never have an exhaustive list of those.
An idea: treat AU differently for that method, since they get the bulk of support number things
 
The only sites that there have been tp'd "key phrases" are on AU, SO, and Web Apps.
Oh, and Webmasters.
 
5:02 PM
yes, the site - feedback correlation is strong in this one. metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/…
Methods get site string, none of them use it yet. Time to change that.
 
The SO tps would all be caught by other checks.
 
Heh
 
There's also another use by the phone number method, I assume you put that one in.
 
Right, I forgot that one.
 
@ArtOfCode Fixed
 
5:08 PM
@hichris123 Should I add site check here or are you working on that file now?
 
@Marshmallow I'm currently looking at other fps in metasmoke; if you have time go ahead and do it.
 
It's always funny to invalidate @Undo's feedback. Maybe you need to pay more attention. ;) metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/12124
 
@hichris123 That was a mistake probably, let me research
 
the heck was I thinking there
 
5:13 PM
Glad you undid it though
 
I can't even find that report in here.
 
in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, 4 hours ago, by Ferrybig
@PetterFriberg It was indeed a mistake, I tracked the post down to this chatlog. Undo did sd k fpu, but someone did a sd why quickly before Undo did his move. You can confirm that this was the moment by decreasing the id of the metasmoke post, and seeing that the title of post 12123 is indeed the anime post
 
ah, yeah
 
PetterFriberg also asked about that post
 
!!/pull
 
5:14 PM
I do so enjoy making lostmind and undo jokes since you two became mods
:D
 
Maybe Smokey should reject feedback if it posts another message <.5 seconds before your message comes in, or something.
 
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 1a02541 (Normal Human: key phrase match AU, WA, WebM only) (running on Raspberry Pi)
 
@Undo only if the sd command is used, not the direct reply
 
Restart: API quota is 2924.
 
@Ferrybig Right
 
5:15 PM
It rarely happens, and people do fix things. We have more errors because of miscounts in sd 5k 2- n f k f n k and whatnot
Which are also not a big deal, because it's just feedback, not a flag.
 
@Marshmallow Happened to me twice as far as I can recall
 
@Marshmallow right
 
I usually review using metasmoke if there are lots of unmarked posts
 
can you give feedback directly from metasmoke?
because I usually end up running through the reports and find the one w/o feedback to reply to
 
5:20 PM
I do not in fact have a login for that
:p
 
No reason to have one, really
there are enough people already with access, and there's never anything in that queue
Having more people just increases the potential for confusion, at this point
 
I've noticed there are very few smokey reports that get no feedback nowadays
 
@Magisch Thats because we went through 6000 posts together to give them feedback
 
@Undo stackoverflow.com/questions/32797742 was spam deleted, correct? (if so, there's a user you can destroy :P)
 
Yeah, gone
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported answer: 7-zip doesn't open the archive folder by erikpersson67 on superuser.com
 
Hmm, that comment by OP looks... human, all too human.
 
@Marshmallow And many copies of it on Google. :/
Speaking of spam, have one for you @Undo.
 
Oh yay
@hichris123 Nuking the question, but the users aren't matching the pattern I usually see with these.
 
Slightly different, but click the office365 community link.
 
5:57 PM
Yeah, saw that
Usually both the question an answer are copy-pasted / reused from somewhere else, not seeing that here
 
@Undo Looks like someone fixed the grammar. :/ quora.com/…
 
Bahahaha
answer is in there too. Okay, nuking
 
ninja edits...
 
@SmokeDetector f it then
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted user: iOS native-layer automation by JParks on stackoverflow.com
 
6:02 PM
@SmokeDetector why
 
users gone, thanks @hichris123 :)
 
Im really burnt out on close votes
I've been doing 60 a day since we can do 60 a day
 
take a break for a few days
burnout is bad
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted user: Varnish - Prevent Custom Block Caching by Walshie1987 on magento.stackexchange.com
 
6:09 PM
Its only 40 minutes a day but still
@SmokeDetector why
 
I'd much rather have you reviewing 30/day for the next year than 60/day for a month.
 
@Undo User removed from blacklist (35304 on magento.stackexchange.com).
 
Looks like another sd timing error
 
I've been trying to answer some questions today
and realised again just how much I still suck as a coder :p
 
6:11 PM
Not timing. 8k would cover that post whether or not something shows up.
 
oh, I read it wrong
 
Hey there. I heard that you removed the "Link at the end of posts" reports from SOCVR. Correct? If so, I'll pass down the info.
 
That's correct. The results were too much of a mixed bag for that reason.
 
Okay thanks!
 
@Tunaki For now, yeah
Probably forever, but definitely for now
 
6:13 PM
Thanks @Undo
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
@Undo cheers, turns out I have a connection now
@hichris123 is this really spam?
 
6:28 PM
@ArtOfCode Link to Office365 community, which has an answer linking to recoverytoolbox
That's their MO
 
Ah, gotcha
 
also, they posted the same question nearly everywhere. Even Experts Exchange: experts-exchange.com/questions/26355598/…
 
hah, expertsexchange
always gets me
 
You're supposed to be an adult now, remember?
 
hah, what is maturity
 
6:31 PM
 
@Undo Also, that other new admin tool could also do with pagination when/if you do that. Even my own feedback list is pretty long, I don't doubt yours and others' are even longer.
 
Oh, yeah. I'll do that too.
 
@Ferrybig 10/10 would do again
 
On SU. I should've stopped flagging things :(
 
!!/test <p>Last night my home was broken into. The only thing that was stolen was my car title. I wouldn't be so down about it, but I'm trying to sell my car. What can I do to get a new one? Do I just need to go to the DMV? <a href="http://www.tagsandtitle.com/lostornotitle.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tagsandtitle.com/lostornotitle.html</a> </p>
 
6:34 PM
> Url in title
----------
Title - Position 226-253: http://www.tagsandtitle.com
 
what idiot breaks into a car and steals only the car title?
 
JAL
lol
 
That answer was posted on Money; a mod got to it a second after I opened the page.
It doesn't match link-at-end because that reason catches only empty-path URLs.
!!/test <p>Last night my home was broken into. The only thing that was stolen was my car title. I wouldn't be so down about it, but I'm trying to sell my car. What can I do to get a new one? Do I just need to go to the DMV? <a href="http://www.tagsandtitle.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tagsandtitle.com/lostornotitle.html</a> </p>
 
> Url in title
----------
Title - Position 226-253: http://www.tagsandtitle.com
 
Or... ?
 
6:40 PM
!!/test <p>Last night my home was broken into. The only thing that was stolen was my car title. I wouldn't be so down about it, but I'm trying to sell my car. What can I do to get a new one? Do I just need to go to the DMV? <a href="http://www.tagsandtitle.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tagsandtitle.com/lostornotitle.html</a></p>
 
> Url in title
----------
Title - Position 226-253: http://www.tagsandtitle.com
 
hrmph
 
Yes, I'm looking at that regex now.
 
@Undo I have been reflecting on this, the truth is that these often hides off-topic question that SOCVR close (as in the test you did), I would say we close around 5 of these a day (which avoid future link only answers), if you only had a few spam flags (since they will get denied and the user will learn), maybe you will loose a good effect that this smokey reports had in SOCVR
 
JAL
Anyone know how a post can be invalidated from the LQP review queue? This post was flagged as NAA, my flag was marked as helpful, but it wasn't reviewed in the LQP review queue. Is it possible that the user deleted and undeleted the answer during the grace period?
(figured I would ask here, since you guys are experts at this stuff. If this isn't the right place I'll ask elsewhere)
 
6:45 PM
@JAL I don't think grace period is meaningful about deletion and undeletion.
 
The task was invalidated ~30 min after creation, so it can't be grace period.
 
@JAL that's because I marked it helpful and just closed the question
 
JAL
@Undo Interesting. Thank you!
 
@JAL np :)
Maybe I should have deleted the answer too, but... either way the question is bad.
 
JAL
Hope you didn't mind me asking in here.
 
6:50 PM
Nope, no worries.
 
@PetterFriberg Questions will still get votes to close from someone, which can then be reviewed in a normal way. My concern was that it's unfair to new users posting their first answer (of marginal quality, of course) to drop them among dozens of users with quick flagging habit.
Flags don't get declined if there are 6 of them...
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating words in answer: SQL take just the numeric values from a varchar by fuhry on stackoverflow.com
 
JAL
is that a false positive?
 
sd f
 
6:57 PM
blarh I need a coffee
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported answer: Can a plant evolve to give off CO2? by Azhar Sial on worldbuilding.stackexchange.com
 
@Tunaki Yeah, that's been removed for a while now IIRC :)
@ArtOfCode done
 
@Marshmallow While I completely understand and respect your decision and I don't know how many flags, I was just trying do give some input to your decisione (pro - cons), unfortunately SOCVR is doing 30% of reviewing on SO and I hardly doubt that those question will be closed by other users.
 
wow, is it that high?
 
7:01 PM
@Undo Yes.
Room effectiveness is from 20 to 30 percent everyday
One day it was 398% of all the reviews.
 
what
 
@IͶΔ Hi, we see again : )
I guess he means 39.8, thats on week-end
 
@Marshmallow What if we linked SOCVR to the question instead of the answer?
That's adding complexity, but it might be worth it.
 
@PetterFriberg \o
 
But the question could be fine; the answer being spam.
 
7:04 PM
^
 
Sound like a great idea!
 
@PetterFriberg Nope
 
Maybe add !!/cv-pls to Smokey, for SOCVR ?
Scope creep again, I know.
 
yeah, scope creep
 
in SO Close Vote Reviewers on Stack Overflow Chat, Apr 3 at 0:53, by Closey
@WaiHaLee 11 members (9% of this room's able reviewers) have processed 426 review items today, which accounts for 398.13% of all CV reviews today.
CC @Undo
 
7:06 PM
Well, that's the answer then. Smokey isn't meant for closing OT questions.
 
Just make the report correct Link answer on question... you have single user in SOCVR doing wrong like in every room but the major of people do really know how to judge posts...
 
How to judge posts?
 
If you like to learn how to judge a question or an answer you should just be in SOCVR for awhile (Tuna, Rene, Nathan,Gunr ecc) will teach you (+ all mods hanging around)
Then its true some new user may do wrong but I guess thats normal business on SO is it not @IͶΔ
 
On SO it is not INA indeed.
You guys have many rules.
And many rules for your rules.
And rules on top of rules.
 
Do you hold posts to SOCVR for a few minutes like you do for the tavern?
 
7:10 PM
@rene Not yet
Someone suggested it today, though
 
Please do that
 
Thing is, SOCVR is really, really good at nuking spam fast. They just... try to nuke things that aren't spam sometimes.
@rene cc @hichris123
 
Oh interesting, what is your keyboard layout o' flower @rene?
Is [e] close to [enter]?
 
Adding a delay might just drive SOCVR users here. Didn't that happen already with the Tavern?
 
@Undo I don't want to be in that ball game with my room @Undo
 
7:11 PM
@BrockAdams Not a bad thing.
@rene Yeah, understand.
 
okay
 
@BrockAdams I came here because people wanted to get rid of it there.
 
@BrockAdams yes, but you have all the main players in one room
 
Then they didn't, then they did, then they didn't again, and finally it became delays and stuff.
@rene Bring it on
 
@IͶΔ We're friendly and try to only sacrifice one bot a day. So far, Smokey keeps fighting back though.
 
7:13 PM
@rene What if we were to send SOCVR posts immediately during UTC 3-11? See the last graph on metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/graphs.
 
Now you are discussing stuff that goes either unseen or has to be translated by your truly in extended guidance
 
And with the delay at all other times?
 
We should send manually reported posts directly, else they will notice
 
@Ferrybig manual reports bypass it anyway, IIRC
 
@Undo status-12:00-overflow
I wonder if zooming will do some magic.
But I'm too sleepy to parse stuff now.
 
7:15 PM
Sorry for asking but what is the advantage of delaying?, someone here can remove it before?
 
If I say something stupid, it's not me!
 
@PetterFriberg We have a shot at marking something as a false positive before feeding it to the SOCVR sharks.
 
@PetterFriberg If its false positive, we can mark it directly, without the robo flaggers
 
@Undo well, let's try something so I'm fine with that. But I really want this They just... try to nuke things that aren't spam sometimes. off my plate.
 
@rene Yeah, understand.
 
7:16 PM
I'll see if I can write something down for that
 
I wonder if we could get away with not giving SOCVR anything outside of UTC 3-11, and even then have a very, very pruned down reason list.
 
Let's localize the problems. Is it only with answer reports?
 
well the problem is bigger now since rene do not want the problem : )
 
@Marshmallow I haven't seen any issues with questions.
Well, there was one yesterday, but that was an edge case.
 
So a simple fix would be to report questions only. SOCVR focuses on questions by design.
 
7:24 PM
@Ferry is there a way to filter for only SO reports on the plugin Fight Spam on SO ?
 
@PetterFriberg If you use it only in the SO CVR, and turn it off here then it only bleeps on SO messages. There is no inbuild filter
 
@PetterFriberg Not now, but I've been considering site-specific settings. It's on GH: github.com/normalhuman/SpamTracker
 
@Marshmallow Sounds sane. Most of the 3-11 spam is questions anyway.
 
@PetterFriberg This line can be changed to if (site == 'stackoverflow.com' && qId) {
 
Thanks
 
7:28 PM
sd f
 
:28841324 f
 
Well, it's not exactly that because my (old) code there is a bit messy: there is other stuff going on later. The function should just return if site != 'stackoverflow.com' that's all.
I'll add site config to my to-do list for that extension.
 
If everything is moved to Charcoal you need to build in this new feature : ), one can only do that much...
 
OK, let's do the question thing only and if we don't screw up too much we can see later if we want to add answers as well but then with the 5 minute delay so they can be handled by the crowd here
If that doesn't work we conclude it was a nice experiment and move on to Yahoo Answers
 
7:38 PM
@SmokeDetector f
^ non-latin text is the exact as the latin text
 
7:50 PM
I realized I don't want to mess with site settings in the spam-alerting extension, how about I just handle it by URL parameters... room URL?alert=site1,site2,site3 or room URL?ignore=site1,site2,site3
If "alert" is included then the rest are of course ignored.
Yes, that will work. Dealing with Chrome storage API that I have long forgotten isn't in my immediate plans.
 
@rene Sounds good.
To conclude, to start we're going to remove answers from SOCVR and go with only questions for a while.
 
Understood @Undo.
 
!!/pull
 
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev b01eb5d (Undo1: Stop reporting answers to SOCVR) (running on Raspberry Pi)
Restart: API quota is 1883.
 
8:10 PM
sd f
I made a mistake with that regex, will fix.
 
Large number of false positives this evening
 
!!/pull
 
Restart: API quota is 1774.
 
No startup message?
!!/status
 
@BrockAdams Running since 20:18:35 UTC (1 minute)
 
8:20 PM
!!/rev
 
!!//errorlogs 50
 
Try errorlogs again?
 
!!/errorlogs 50
 
Double slash?
 
8:21 PM
WebSocketConnectionClosedException: Connection is already closed.
2016-04-07 15:34:31.818076 UTC
  File "ws.py", line 129, in <module>
    ws = websocket.create_connection("ws://qa.sockets.stackexchange.com/")

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/websocket/_core.py", line 104, in create_connection
    websock.connect(url, **options)

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/websocket/_core.py", line 269, in connect
    self.handshake_response = handshake(self.sock, *addrs, **options)
 
@Undo, @Marshmallow: ^^^
> invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'stackexchange.com'
 
happens occasionally.
 
Aug 8 '15 at 15:10, by Normal Human
Ah right, it's when instead of room number the URL contains bobcat.
 
Reading the transcript time...
 
@SmokeDetector del edited
 
8:26 PM
@ArtOfCode Looks like Undo answered that for me. :)
 
How is it going with the vandalism feedback?
 
I haven't touched it
 
!!/test <p>Last night my home was broken into. The only thing that was stolen was my car title. I wouldn't be so down about it, but I'm trying to sell my car. What can I do to get a new one? Do I just need to go to the DMV? <a href="http://www.tagsandtitle.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tagsandtitle.com/lostornotitle.html</a> </p>
 
> Url in title
----------
Title - Position 226-253: http://www.tagsandtitle.com
 
I marked it f in SOCVR. Should I just remove?
 
8:27 PM
I fail at regex today.
@Tunaki f is fine for that kind of thing, imo.
 
@Undo There is still confusing on what to use when there is vandalism
 
yeah
 
As long as you don't blacklist the user, I really don't care. :P
 
Yeah I saw a thread above that ended with use ignore...
 
Since it's only for the semi-reliable statistics that allow us to Make Smokey Better... it's not huge deal.
 
8:29 PM
We cannot hrust the statistics if they depend on the person who marked the post, so having at least vandalism constant will help us
 
This isn't an A!-level super-urgent thing, the worst thing that can happen is it messes with our stats a little
Which... one or two a day won't mess with stats that much
 
Or even better, a "requires editing" feedback stat
 
Undo just tell us what you like us to do, we are simple and need simple rules : )
 
I think the rule is "Meh. Just don't blacklist the user."
 
@Tunaki At this point, yeah
 
8:32 PM
ok, lets go for that..
 
mark as f, downvote, rollback, and vote to close.
Optionally check for rage-quit.
 
f and rollback ok for me, the rest you can do...: )
 
API quota rolled over with 1657 requests remaining. Current quota: 9999.
stackoverflow: 1613
superuser: 490
askubuntu: 422
drupal: 294
unix: 183
english: 180
math: 169
electronics: 155
security: 143
salesforce: 141
mathoverflow.net: 135
dba: 134
sharepoint: 126
magento: 124
gis: 116
gaming: 115
wordpress: 110
programmers: 103
meta: 96
apple: 95
puzzling: 92
travel: 89
academia: 89
stats: 88
physics: 85
android: 84
tex: 81
scifi: 81
ell: 79
mathematica: 75
webapps: 64
ru.stackoverflow: 63
cs: 61
worldbuilding: 61
judaism: 60
raspberrypi: 60
movies: 60
codereview: 55
biology: 55
 

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