The Nineteenth Byte

Anonymous

1:00 AM

There's not a command for that yet (added it to the to-do list, though), but it should be easy to do

quartata

@Mego Kind of yes but instead of specifying the indices in a list it's a step value

So like every second element for instance.

It would be also nice if it had a mode to insert instead of replace too

Here's the perldoc: perldoc.perl.org/functions/splice.html

Since teaching Perl things is not my forte apparently

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I feel like if we, as PPCG, could create a golfing language together, it would be unstoppable.

El'endia Starman

There's a bit of a difficulty when it comes to getting several dozen programmers working on one project though...

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ It would be the first stack-tape-hexagon-based pre-post-infix hybrid language written in a conglomeration of Perl, Python, JavaScript, and duct tape

4

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Mego That might not be a bad idea. Separate programs communicating with each other, like Brain and Chuck, but with more programs.

Dennis

1:06 AM

With O(ack(n)) run time for addition.

2

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

ack is a binary function iirc

Alex A.

O(shit)

Dennis

Ackermann function

In computability theory, the Ackermann function, named after Wilhelm Ackermann, is one of the simplest and earliest-discovered examples of a total computable function that is not primitive recursive. All primitive recursive functions are total and computable, but the Ackermann function illustrates that not all total computable functions are primitive recursive. After Ackermann's publication of his function (which had three nonnegative integer arguments), many authors modified it to suit various purposes, so that today "the Ackermann function" may refer to any of numerous variants of the original...

El'endia Starman

Idea: what if one could do var_a to define a variable named a that can be any type, a-la Python, and one could do int_b to define an integer named b. This would also apply to, say, float_c, list_d, etc.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Dennis A(m, n) yup binary

Anonymous

1:07 AM

Do you guys want to try this? :P

El'endia Starman

Not me. :P

Zgarb

It should use a custom 1-byte code page that only contains Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Alex A.

yas

Naturally

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

LEZ DU EET

Dennis

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Oh, as in two arguments. I'm used to seeing ack(n) = A(n, n).

feersum

1:08 AM

@El'endiaStarman So it would be like every other C-based language except with underscore instead of space?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Dennis Oh, cool! I like that notation

El'endia Starman

@feersum I guess? Do they usually have a kind of variable that can change type?

feersum

@El'endiaStarman You didn't say anything about a variable "changing type".

El'endia Starman

> a variable named a that can be any type, a-la Python

Python has dynamic typing.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

var_x = dynamically_typed

El'endia Starman

1:09 AM

So does JavaScript.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

javascript_x = javascript_variable

python-x = python_variable

feersum

I don't see how this is any different from e.g. Javascript.

quartata

@El'endiaStarman Python has duck typing technically

El'endia Starman

int_b enforces int type for b.

quartata

Little different

El'endia Starman

1:11 AM

@quartata Oh right, that's the more proper term.

feersum

You can declare an int in JS, can't you?

quartata

@feersum Nope weak typed

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata I made a strong typed interpreter for JS but it wasn't very fun

El'endia Starman

Is there an already-existing language that has both duck/dynamic/weak typing and strong typing?

quartata

@El'endiaStarman Yes, Groovy.

Anonymous

1:12 AM

Best idea:

Zgarb

There are over 1000 Egyptian hieroglyphs in Unicode :O en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Hieroglyphs_%28Unicode_block%29

El'endia Starman

@quartata Ah, how is it?

Anonymous

eval(code, lang) command

El'endia Starman

@Zgarb And accordingly, over 1000 white boxes. :P

The PDF has them all, though.

quartata

@El'endiaStarman def tells Groovy to automatically infer the type and when calling methods with def vars it uses a duck test

Anonymous

1:13 AM

It would return the result of running code with lang's eval

quartata

@Zgarb Unicode is just weird.

It has some... just odd characters.

El'endia Starman

@quartata Huh, okay. Is it a feature you use?

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman Julia, if I'm understanding correctly

quartata

@El'endiaStarman Yes if only to save me some typing

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. I.e. you can assign an integer to a and b but only enforce the type for b.

Alex A.

1:16 AM

@El'endiaStarman That made me more confused

Sp3000

@Mego Thought of that, but there's not much point having a 1+ byte overhead for specifying the language

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. Okay, hmm. Let's say that "hi"+5 => "hi5". This is possible with "hi"+a but not "hi"+b.

And/or a = "hi" is possible but not b = "hi".

Alex A.

Oh

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

i.e. you cannot auto-cast b.

El'endia Starman

Basically, yeah.

Anonymous

1:18 AM

@Sp3000 I thought we were trying to make it as ridiculous as possible

Alex A.

You can always redefine a variable to something with a different type

Anonymous

So half-duck-half-static casting

feersum

@El'endiaStarman I doubt that would work well at all.

If some parts of the program used duck typing, the compiler would not be able to check the parts that were supposed to be statically typed.

Alex A.

But if you call a function (even + or like that), it optionally dispatches based on the type of the argument

El'endia Starman

I plan on allowing a greater variety of operations, such as multiplying lists. The guiding principle will be "does it make sense?".

@feersum I'm not particularly interested in computational efficiency, but rather programmer efficiency.

Alex A.

1:20 AM

Oh, if you make b a const then its type can't change

quartata

I do agree that a collaboration like Marbelous but for a golfing language would be cool

El'endia Starman

I've read a few times that programmers write about the same amount of code in the same amount of time regardless of the language.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. Nor its value...

quartata

We'd have to find a language everyone likes though.

Alex A.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Obviously

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:20 AM

@El'endiaStarman C++/Python...

feersum

@El'endiaStarman What will it do when you declare a variable as int, but then the compiler can't prove that what you assigned to it is an int?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@AlexA. Just checking ^_^

Alex A.

@quartata Everyone loves Fortran

El'endia Starman

hmmm

@feersum Probably warnings and/or errors.

quartata

And what kind of language would we make anyways? :P

Anonymous

1:22 AM

@feersum Prints out the lyrics to NNBB and exits, obviously

quartata

@AlexA. blergh

Anonymous

17 mins ago, by Mego

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ It would be the first stack-tape-hexagon-based pre-post-infix hybrid language written in a conglomeration of Perl, Python, JavaScript, and duct tape

quartata

@Mego nope nope nope so much nope

mınxomaτ

@quartata So much yes.

feersum

What ML-family languages do is to use static typing everywhere, but deduce the types so you rarely have to write type names.

Alex A.

1:22 AM

So much

quartata

Although I was thinking of making U (the golfy version of Julia I was considering) have some prefix and some infix operators

El'endia Starman

@feersum ML?

Alex A.

Like Haskell, F#

OCaml

Sp3000

It'd be like Rotor, but better

Alex A.

The ones with hideous syntax

quartata

1:23 AM

@Sp3000 Rotor isn't done yet stop judging it.

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman machine language; aka stuff that compiles to assembly

Alex A.

@quartata Why make a golfy version of Julia?

quartata

It's one byte away from outgolfing Pyth at FizzBuzz I'd like to think that counts for something

ՊՓԼՃՐՊՃՈԲՍԼ

1

A: Generate Programs in Increasing size

TeaScript, 5 bytes [non-competing] [q|R2 Takes advantage of TeaScript's new "keys" features. These are in the format of [<key>|<code>.

quartata

@AlexA. Um because why not?

feersum

1:23 AM

@Mego That's not what it means.

Anonymous

@feersum Oh, then what do you mean?

feersum

Well, it does stand for "machine language" but has nothing to do with assembly.

ՊՓԼՃՐՊՃՈԲՍԼ

Is Teascript's [q| considered a quine builtin?

Alex A.

@quartata There are a billion golfing languages and Julia's too beautiful to be hacked to bits like that ;_;

feersum

It's the name of a programming language which is the ancestor of the ones @AlexA. mentioned.

Sp3000

1:25 AM

@qua Sorry, that wasn't my intention. I mean, it'd probably use the same sort of operators-depending-on-what's-been-used-so-far scheme

quartata

@Sp3000 Ah.

Anonymous

@ՊՓԼՃՐՊՃՈԲՍԼ I'd say yes

mınxomaτ

I once made a golfy version of AutoIt, but misplaced the source code :(

quartata

@Sp3000 We thought once that Rotor would be the future:

Nov 7 '15 at 6:58, by Thomas Kwa

Something like Rotor will probably be the next generation of golfing languages. With these one-character-command languages, the logical next step in getting the size of programs down as close to their entropy as possible is to make commands that are likely to be used next smaller.

Then Jelly happened

@mınxomaτ I saw that once and thought it was cool

Too bad you lost the codez :/

mınxomaτ

I'll probably end up reqriting it anyway :)

Dennis

1:28 AM

@quartata That's still a good idea though.

quartata

Jelly's a better idea. APL's infix style is very golfy naturally; it's not surprising that a full blown golfing language with it would be so good

Dennis

No, I mean add (e.g.) a command-line switch that promotes two-char built-ins of a certain type to one-char built-ins.

Or an atom to the same effect.

quartata

@Dennis Ah.

feersum

I've been toying for a few months with the idea of a compressed language that compiles a bitstream to/from OCaml.

quartata

@Dennis Oh now don't you start getting any ideas

Dennis

1:32 AM

:D

feersum

It would use Markov chains or other statistical methods to decide which functions should be fewer bits based on previously used ones.

quartata

Interesting..

Er. Why OCaml though?

feersum

It would also use the type system to restrict which functions could come next.

quartata

Ah. That's why.

That would be really interesting to see.

feersum

e.g. if you just had the integer addition operator, the next thing must be either an integer or a function that returns an integer.

OCaml support for Windows kind of sucks though.

ETHproductions

1:35 AM

@Neil np

quartata

How about Haskell?

ETHproductions

The life of a code-golfer

GamrCorps

10 PC Gaming Mouse Facts You Probably Didn't Know

►

#Relatable (#2)

ETHproductions

Yay, earned math tag-badge and 160 rep yesterUTCday!

feersum

Haskell has a lot messier syntax and also monads which would add confusion.

quartata

1:36 AM

It's tricky see because you want to pick a language that has just the right amount of functions :P

Hmmm

feersum

The "standard" libs in OCaml are pretty sparse. If I wanted to "win" in code golfing it'd definitely need to be hooked up with some 3rd-party libraries.

quartata

Er this'll sound weird

ETHproductions

WHAT? Only at #16 weekly? This is number one disaster! Must post more brilliantly short answers!

quartata

But I just remembered a third language in that family

Erlang

Quill

8

Anonymous

1:37 AM

@Dennis That's one of the things I originally wanted to do with Seriously, but it ended up taking a different course

quartata

@Quill hahahahaha

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I have 6444 rep :D

ETHproductions

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Nice :)

quartata

I have 4664 rep.

Dennis

chmod 6444 conor

quartata

1:38 AM

set(my_rep) == set(conors_rep)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

?

quartata

True

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ You don't know what chmod is? For shame.

ETHproductions

@quartata Only for Conor

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I'm a windows user.

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ no excuse

El'endia Starman

1:39 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ So am I and yet...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I don't hang around nasty linux/unix/whatever folk

El'endia Starman

I have had to use chmod a few times.

ETHproductions

I'm at 4.9e4/6 rep

quartata

Modes (Unix)

Modes are the file system permissions given to "user", "group" and "others" classes to access files. Modes are shown when listing files in long format, or, if Access Control Lists are in use, using getfacl. Modes can be changed with chmod (for traditional Unix permissions) or with setfacl (for Access Control Lists). For traditional Unix permissions, the symbolic mode is composed of three components, which are combined to form a single string of text: $ chmod [references][operator][modes] file1 ... The references (or classes) are used to distinguish the users to whom the permissions apply. If...

Educate thyself @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Although that article doesn't have the octal notation

El'endia Starman

That's probably far more information than necessary. :P

quartata

1:40 AM

Nevermind it's a terrible article ignore it

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Reading: Modes (Unix)... stops I've read enough.

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I hate to break it to you, but that's most of us

El'endia Starman

In essence, every file is readable, writable, and executable by some combination of owner, group, and public (or nobody).

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Mego (That's the point ;) )

LegionMammal978

It's funny

Anonymous

1:41 AM

There are dozens of us!

ETHproductions

@ETHproductions Excuse my bad scientific notation, golfing habit

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

||unix/linux users|| > ||windows users|| >>> ||mac users||

LegionMammal978

I earned 810 rep from by last answer

quartata

@LegionMammal978 We know and we're mad

El'endia Starman

^

ETHproductions

1:42 AM

^

RikerW

Have we done a decimal multiplication of strings challenge?

^^

feersum

Well as we all know upvotes are inversely proportional to effort squared.

RikerW

@LegionMammal978 I have less than 810 in total...

:(

ETHproductions

@RikerW Like multiplying two strings containing decimal numbers without converting them into numbers?

quartata

@feersum I don't put any effort in my answers and I don't get that many upvotes

This was just... I don't even

LegionMammal978

1:42 AM

Hey it was the first answer

It was made to be simple

feersum

Whoops almost forgot the exponent.

RikerW

@ETHproductions No, like 2.5 * "test" = "testtestte"

With other fractions/decimals too.

@RikerW Ah

That's been done

link?

1:43 AM

I was considering adding that as part of Japt's string repeat built-in

LegionMammal978

One sec

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@ETHproductions me too!

RikerW

I though it probably had, so I wanted to find out before sandboxing.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

except s/Japt/Jolf/

ETHproductions

Going to work on the spec for Crayon now...

RikerW

1:44 AM

Oh, would anybody like to be memeified instead of Martin for my "I can't believe its not buttner" challenge?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Need help? :D

LegionMammal978

16

Q: Quine multiple times

Your task is make program that do following: You should take number. (Positive, negative, fraction is possible input) If it is negative, you reverse the quine. and negate that number (Become positive) Then you repeat <integer part of the input number> times and print first <floor(fraction part ...

Just remove the quine part

RikerW

That doesn't count I dont' think.

I think mine would be different enough, without the quine part.

:27177454 Not me dude....

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ y no worky

ETHproductions

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I don't need much help, but I give you link so you can suggest things

quartata

1:45 AM

conorobrien-foxx.github.io/Jolf/jolf.html

LegionMammal978

True, but existing answers could be copied without much modification

quartata

It outputs a comma.

RikerW

lol

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata ?

oh

Alex A.

@quartata I was like 94% sure this was going to be a rickroll

2

RikerW

1:46 AM

^

ETHproductions

^

LegionMammal978

^

RikerW

But like 99.99% percent sure...

@quartata and @AlexA. opinion?

Alex A.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ಠ___ಠ

RikerW

5 mins ago, by RikerW

Have we done a decimal multiplication of strings challenge?

New Loophole Proposal

1:47 AM

1

A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Claiming your answer is non-competing to circumvent challenge restrictions Marking an answer as non-competing is supposed to be used to make sure it is not accepted, because the programming language(s) or feature(s) it uses didn't exist prior to the challenge. It does not give an answer a free p...

ETHproductions

^ Since when have we had that bot?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

whoa

quartata

Maybe check the link again.

RikerW

Is the above similar enough to this?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^^^^

Alex A.

1:47 AM

@ETHproductions Always

quartata

@ETHproductions It's always been there.

RikerW

3 mins ago, by LegionMammal978

16

Q: Quine multiple times

Your task is make program that do following: You should take number. (Positive, negative, fraction is possible input) If it is negative, you reverse the quine. and negate that number (Become positive) Then you repeat <integer part of the input number> times and print first <floor(fraction part ...

code-golf quine

ETHproductions

Oh

RikerW

ninjaed

I beat it to upvote though.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata

map(x,function(H,S,n){ y.goto(H,S); y.go(1); y.stroke(); });

H is the element, S is the index.

RikerW

1:48 AM

lol

feersum

> y.stroke();

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Oh lal

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^_^

Anonymous

@NewLoopholeProposal that's new :o

RikerW

^-^

Alex A.

1:48 AM

@feersum y.caress();

RikerW

^.^

quartata

If I pass an array to a function will it flatten like in Perl

Alex A.

@Mego What's new? The bot? Because it isn't.

ETHproductions

I read that as "Marking an answer as non-competing because it uses a language or feature newer than the challenge is a standard loophole" and I was like ಠ_ಠ

RikerW

@AlexA. y.massage(); ?

Anonymous

1:49 AM

@AlexA. I haven't seen it before

Alex A.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Anonymous

y.not_zoidberg();

quartata

@Mego Bot has always been there

RikerW

:(

Alex A.

@Mego Because not that many people propose new loopholes

anymore

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:49 AM

O_O

Anonymous

y.lovin_touchin_squeezin();

Alex A.

@quartata Ninja'd you again.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

IT'S A BLOODY CANVAS YOU PERVS

ETHproductions

y.u_do_this();

Alex A.

lel

Anonymous

1:50 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ eww why is it bloody

^

@Mego The mac users.

y.u_don't_do_this();

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Build a twisting quine code-golf quine The challenge Your challenge is to write a twister program, when run on itself as input, outputs another program* that prints Twister**. How strings are twisted The twisting algorithm is very simple. It takes all but the first char in the string and move...

RikerW

^^^^^^

quartata

1:50 AM

@Mego literally 2 seconds away from making that joke

today isn't my day

ninja'd on everything

RikerW

ninjaed on everything

Dangit.

Alex A.

@quartata Get rekt, son in law.

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Also why are you using a British curse?

quartata

@AlexA. Son in law? What?

RikerW

Cause he is antarctican.

Anonymous

1:51 AM

@quartata You do this, on the day of his daughter's wedding?

5

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Mego Umm... My mums native american, my dads irish.

RikerW

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ German, mexican, and british.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@RikerW noice mon fruend

quartata

Anyways back on topic how can I make it y.goto(H[0],H[1])

Alex A.

@quartata "Get rekt, son in law" sounds way more rekt than "get rekt, son."

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:52 AM

@quartata .H0, .H1.

quartata

@AlexA. It also sounds 99% more disturbing

2

RikerW

@AlexA. y.u_arrange_marriage_without_asking();

^^

Alex A.

@quartata Good

RikerW

^

Anonymous

@AlexA. It's the combination of "get rekt son" and "lawyer'd"

Alex A.

1:52 AM

haha

Ampora

y.u_always_lying();

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ΜxDyG.H0.H1yg1ys}

Alex A.

I wonder if "lawyer'd" is used in penal court slang.

RikerW

@quartata To quote Quill,

Anonymous

Really it's just Alex being wrong at punctuation. It's supposed to be "get rekt, son, in law"

quartata

1:53 AM

OK it kinda worked.

It made a line between (0,0) and (1,1)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

You made a line! :D

RikerW

@AlexA. I read that as "Penile court slang" and was like "that is in conjunction with lawyers?"

quartata

conorobrien-foxx.github.io/Jolf/…

Right but I just wanted a point ;_;

Alex A.

@RikerW ._.

ETHproductions

I shouldn't have signed up for the PPCG redesign project... I recieve about 30 GitHub emails a day :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:54 AM

@quartata Oh right!

Alex A.

@quartata Richard Rollins.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

gimme a sec

quartata

@AlexA. That wasn't a rickroll.

RikerW

LIES

Alex A.

@quartata I didn't say it was

quartata

1:55 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Nah I'll figure it out

Anonymous

@quartata no this is a rickroll

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

var can = {
		"a":function(J){
			J.comp += "y.angle(";
			return 1;
		},
		"b":function(J){
			J.comp += "y.begin(";
			return 0;
		},
		"B":function(J){
			J.comp += "y.back(";
			return 1;
		},
		"c": function(J){
			J.comp += "y.close(";
			return 0;
		},
		"d":function(J){
			J.comp += "y.draw(";
			return 0;
		},
		"e":function(J){
			J.comp += "y.pensize(";
			return 1;
		},
		"f":function(J){
			J.comp += "y.font(";
			return 1;
		},
		"F":function(J){
			J.comp += "y.fillstyle(";
			return 1;

@quartata

Those are the canvas functions.

quartata

Thanks

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

yQ and yq do not work.

Anonymous

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Thanks for taking up 80% of my screen m8

RikerW

1:55 AM

*y.q?

quartata