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9:00 PM
@Lembik ^
Regularly? How often do you get crap all over your screen?
@AlexA. tiny flecks of dirt.. larger than one pixel :)
@AlexA. It just happens
which I never noticed before this challenge
9:01 PM
Part of the ritual of laptop maintenance
@quartata sorry what were you pointing me to?
Seeing that QBasic answer made me realize I need to clean mine
aha :)
@quartata so.. about interactivity. is it easy in TI-BASIC??
Moderately. Changing direction on any keypress would add ~10 bytes
@ThomasKwa oh that's not much!
how does it detect the event?
9:04 PM
@Lembik Depends
What exactly are you trying to do?
@Lembik There's a command called getKey that stores the value of the last keypress
Great, now i'm digging out my QB floppys and play around with tons of old source code all night long.
@ThomasKwa and you put it in the loop?
@quartata I am trying to make the next challenge :)
which I want to be interactive
@Lembik oic
I don't know how I would do it, but it would definitely be no more than 20 extra bytes
9:05 PM
but if TI-BASIC can be it in < 60 bytes it's a little worrying :)
44 bytes is still amazing
and a very nice comparison with java
I hope we get perl, python, scala, lua, ruby, rust too :)
Anyone else have any thoughts on my truth machine catalog?
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

quartataTruth Machine Catalog A truth machine (credits goes to dis guy for coming up with it) is a very simple program designed to demonstrate the I/O and control flow of a language. Here's what a truth machine does: Gets a number (either 0 or 1) from STDIN. If that number is 0, print out 0 and termin...

TI-BASIC is crazy good with challenges that involve keypresses and not much else
@quartata Do you want the truth or a machine?
@AlexA. The truth, please.
9:10 PM
I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't let you do that.
@quartata Just in case you're thinking of posting it already, my main thought is currently this ;)
@MartinBüttner No I'm definitely not posting it yet
Especially since it is a catalog
But I figured since chat seemed active today I'd try and ask for opinions
makes sense
9:12 PM
@MartinBüttner I would but I think my interpreter doesn't meet the rules
It was such a good idea too
@quartata I meant the robbers, but I'm sorry to hear that
@MartinBüttner Oh I'm no good at robbing stuff. I can't really break windows
try a brick
@MartinBüttner I'm bad at finding stuff too especially bricks
9:14 PM
One should really be able to favorite answers. That's a feature I seriously miss.
The interpreter was actually based on the golfing language I was writing. Instead of having lots of wheels though, it had just one that contained an instruction that popped everything off the stack and pushed it as an array
The idea was I'd design it so that the > (which shifts the wheel pointer over by 1) could go out of bounds and onto the stack
So you'd push your own wheel containing a string of C# code and then shift over to it
But I think that qualifies as "undefined behavior"
Q: Mark answer as favorite/star

ahsteele Possible Duplicate: Is there any way to favorite/bookmark an answer? This is migrated from a suggestion I made at UserVoice. Often times I am not interested in the question so much as I am the answer. Unfortunately, the only site option for bookmarking an optimal answer is to bookmark...

9:18 PM
@mınxomaτ Posted as an even less constructive comment on Martin's answer
Well now that I've spilled the beans about my interpreter I'm really not going to post it
So I hope it actually was undefined behavior
You spilled beans on your interpreter? Gross, clean that up.
@AlexA. Oops
@MartinBüttner Wow, that answer and comments from Jeff are not really that ... intelligent (in search for a better word).
Why does the sandbox have two downvotes
9:20 PM
I see you prefer vanilla to chocolate. I'm a chocolate man myself. — Jeff Atwood ♦ Sep 29 '11 at 0:13
What does that even mean
@AlexA. I think it means he was drunk?
@mınxomaτ The word you're searching for is constructive.
@quartata can you make sure my pixel answer still works?
"We believe existing in-browser bookmarking tools are sufficient for this case." makes no sense at all. It's about having all favorites in one place like (heavily upvoted) comments pointed out. I don't get it.
9:23 PM
That's not an unintelligent statement
It's not the answer people want to hear, but it's not unintelligent.
Well, let's say it is not very well though out.
I see you prefer vanilla to chocolate. I'm a chocolate man myself. — Jeff Atwood ♦ Sep 29 '11 at 0:13
@ThomasKwa One second
That is definitely unintelligent
@Mego That's not the comment I was talking about.
9:25 PM
@AlexA. Oh, I misread
It's also not unintelligent, it's just not constructive (at all).
Also, what are feature-requests for if a large amount of actual users agree, but he just answers "so either come to terms with the decision, or find another site on the internet that's more to your liking.". That should have been the answer, not a comment.
Perhaps not unintelligent, but useless
@AlexA. I agree.
9:26 PM
Makes you wonder why he hit the submit button
It's also unintelligible.
@Dennis better
@mınxomaτ He invented the site. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That was also 4 years ago.
The question and its answers were posted in 2011.
Attitudes may have changed since then. Also Jeff Atwood no longer works for Stack Exchange.
9:29 PM
@AlexA. Imho it is just not an appropriate way of responding to user feedback. If his comment were the answer and the answer was posted as a comment it would be better already ^^
Bookmarking answers sounds like a useful feature, but I don't think I'd actually use it.
Although it would be nice to be able to bookmark my own answers, so I won't forget to add an explanation...
Not so related, but I find chat a good way to bookmark small code snippets.
Chrome bookmark folder! :P
9:32 PM
I once posted an expression that gets the current time in milliseconds for C++ and I've referred to it several times by searching chat.
SE Chat: GitHub for the chatty
9:48 PM
Dennis's joke killed chat
Glad I'm not the only one who does that
Taking this into account, how should we deal with this answer? Downvote it?
@quartata maybe I will have to pose a question that uses the mouse instead :)
@quartata Hahahaha.
My boss is talking to my coworker saying that he is about to lose some vacation time if he doesn't take it soon
Apparently he hasn't taken a day off in two years
@ThomasKwa If you want
9:50 PM
Please don't recommend that everyone include an <h1> in their answer. It's bad style to have more than one of those per page. The code snippet handles the <h2> produced by ## equally well. — Peter Taylor 7 mins ago
I copied that straight from the primes challenge and there are still problems with it anyways
@Zgarb That's awesome, I hadn't noticed.
Can't do anything right lmao
Java has lost its crown as the worst golfing language! (for my challenge)
@AlexA. Should we suggest golfing, if it doesn't make the answer identical to the shorter one?
It already is golfed. Perhaps not optimally but it is golfed.
9:52 PM
@PeterTaylor Could you explain your latest edit to my question please?
Awww. I was excited for a few seconds when I read "For Your Awareness & Planning: The Gathering Annual Mtg in Room Whatever Nov 2/3"
I thought we were playing Magic the Gathering :(
@Rainbolt Greetings fellow MtG player
Q: Invalid, but secretly valid

vrwimWrite a non-empty program, which has to look like code in language A, but not compile in that language. However, it should be able to compile in language B, and the code seems invalid in that language at first sight. The code should form a complete program The code should contain at least 1 c...

@NewMainPosts Isn't this a dupe of something
Also it's tagged with both code-challenge and pop-con what
9:54 PM
The Programming Language Quiz? :P
@quartata Not anymore
@AlexA. Fastest editor in the west
@quartata Greetings
You know we have an MTG stack exchange?
any suggestions for a good interactive graphical challenge?
We do? Wow that's cool
9:56 PM
They call it Board and Card Games, but it's really just Magic, Catan, Cheating at Munchkin and Monopoly House Rules
@Rainbolt Ah I see
Hmm I might check it out
I like all sorts of card games
A: Make an error quine!

VoteToCloseVitsy ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException 'rd3*l\OaON Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: -1 at java.util.ArrayList.elementData(ArrayList.java:418) at java.util.ArrayList.get(ArrayList.java:431) at com.VTC.vitsy.Vitsy.opHandle(Vitsy.java:234) at com.V...

Q: A "cheating" quine

TheInitializerLong-time lurker, first-time poster. So here goes. In the wikipedia page for quine, it says that "a quine is considered to be 'cheating' if it looks at its own source code." Your task is to make one of these "cheating quines" that read their own source code. This is a golf, so the shortest code...

My language is surprisingly useful for this. ^^
I am itching to destroy that newest popcon challenge.
9:57 PM
Create an evil quine!
@PeterTaylor > tl;dr: boring boring boring.
Oh. You saw it. Never mind. :D
A: A "cheating" quine

quartataBash, 6 bytes cat $0 Basically.

Oh, those actually just got posted
What the heck is going on
did I do the cheaty quine right mummy
Are NewMainPosts and NewSandboxPosts broken or are you guys just super impatient?
9:59 PM
@Rainbolt We are super impatient yes
hey look an upvote
guess I did the cheaty quine right
very difficult
@quartata That would be me.
I wonder if it could possibly get any shorter than that
Like in any language other than HQ9+
maybe hq9++
Does HQ9+ read the file or just print the source?
It's 6 bytes in Pyth
10:01 PM
@VoteToClose Prints the source
@isaacg It is? oh noes
If you're allowed to specify the name
Oh well I'll still "win" since I got the first post
It is something of a hollow victory though
If you can't specify the name its much, much longer
oh noe a down vote
Q: A "cheating" quine

TheInitializerLong-time lurker, first-time poster. So here goes. In the wikipedia page for quine, it says that "a quine is considered to be 'cheating' if it looks at its own source code." Your task is to make one of these "cheating quines" that read their own source code. This is a golf, so the shortest code...

10:02 PM
what did i do wrong mummy
Would anyone agree that the newest "popcon" is a duplicate of PLQ?
@Lembik An HTML document should only have one <h1> tag. There's a boilerplate which is being copy-pasted which instructs people to add an <h1> to every answer. Since I've now raised this issue in more than one comment on meta, I'm trying to tackle the problem at source.
@PeterTaylor IIRC most of the leaderboard snippets require h1.
@PeterTaylor Wouldn't it be easier to post a feature request on Meta SE to make # create a <h2> tag?
@AlexA. The accompanying instructions say to use it, but the JavaScript works with any header tag.
10:06 PM
@Dennis Then SE markdown != markdown
@PeterTaylor Didn't realize
@Dennis That depends on what you mean by "easier". It would require less effort on my part, but would achieve precisely nothing.
I guess people don't like <10 byte solutions
Oh @Peter, you're a dupe identifying machine. Do you agree that the newest popcon is a dupe of PLQ? If it's not a dupe then it's definitely too broad.
Actually, correct "would" to "might". Handling the notifications I get for comments would take a lot of time.
Also what that pyth solution
10:07 PM
@AlexA. It's also definitely off-topic for lack of an objective spec.
Definitely no newline, @quartata
@VoteToClose Yeah it doesn't I checked
So on balance, probably not a dupe of PLQ because that has an objective spec.
@PeterTaylor Easier than re-educating tens of thousands of PPCG users, I mean. If # absolutely shouldn't be used in question or answer bodies, it makes no sense to have it.
@Dennis That might be an issue for SE though considering that they can't just use markdown wholesale, they have to make an exception somewhere for # -> h2 instead of the regular # -> h1.
10:09 PM
Dammit I still got outgolfed by Pyth why
@PeterTaylor Cool, thanks.
@quartata Because Pyth exists.
Hey I just figured something out
Is running a program with another language inside of it viable?
As an answer.
Then what language do you claim it is?
@Dennis I don't think it's necessary to reeducate tens of thousands of users. There are only about 12 questions which need editing and then people will hopefully copy-paste corrected boilerplate.
10:11 PM
Say I did a Runtime.exec with Java that ran another language and called it Java and the other language. Would that be cheating?
That would be... confusing.
@VoteToClose What is this for?
I've kind of done that before with bash/sed
For the next 8,5 days, every single "Joy of Painting" episode is streamed here: twitch.tv/bobross . Happy little trees for everyone.
Cheating Quine. I was going to use Java and cat $0. c:
@VoteToClose I don't think it would work
10:12 PM
@AlexA. Post-processing. They probably do some of that anyway to strip out tags they've chosen not to support. In a previous job in which I wrote some basic forum software, I used MD for the post formatting and shifted header tags by two places as part of the post-MD HTML tidying.
I mean the actual code
Well, not cat $0, I'd do cat A.java. Whoops. :P
@PeterTaylor I don't understand. You're trying to remove all # headings from questions and answers?
@PeterTaylor Ah, okay. Though I'm sure if you did request on Meta.SE, there would be a lot of angry users who want h1 even if they've never used it.
@Calvin'sHobbies No, he wants us all to use h2 instead of h1. So ## instead of #.
@Calvin'sHobbies No. See e.g. this diff
10:16 PM
@AlexA. Making # completely unused?
@PeterTaylor You used American English in your revision note :O
@Calvin'sHobbies Yeah
Good luck convincing all of PPCG (let alone SE) to never use the # header again
Like Dennis said, why have it and not use it? Maybe <h1> shouldn't occur more than once but that's not an issue normal SE users should have to worry about. That's a backend/markdown issue
@PeterTaylor is my catalog thing ok now
10:19 PM
@quartata Found a better way to do it anyways. :P
No I mean the catalog snippet explanation not the actual challenge
@AlexA. Huh?
@PeterTaylor You said "practice," but IIRC the British spelling is "practise."
A: A "cheating" quine

VoteToCloseJava, 156 Bytes import java.nio.file.*;class A{public static void main(String[] a) throws Exception{System.out.print(new String(Files.readAllBytes(Paths.get("A.java"))));}} Grabs all the bytes of the file at once and outputs it to STDOUT. Pretty straightforward.

Yeah! Java!
Shorter in groovy
10:23 PM
> Don't encourage bad practice
@AlexA. No. In British English, practise is a verb and practice is a noun. I think that in American English both are spelt practise.
Nothing is spelled "practise" in American English.
Both the noun and verb forms are "practice" in AE.
Didn't know about the noun/verb difference in BE though, that's interesting.
Lot shorter in fact
A: A "cheating" quine

quartataGroovy, 24 + 1 bytes print new File('a').text Put in a file named "a".

10:25 PM
> practice (standard for noun but incorrect for verb outside US; almost universal for both in American English)
I stand corrected on en-us usage.
I stand corrected on en-uk usage. :D
@quartata =.=
he he
sorry to steal your thunder but I had to do it
Why did the Pyth answer get downvoted so much
May I also correct you on ISO-3166-1? en-uk would be English as spoken in Ukraine... :P
10:26 PM
Meh. In my heart, I know that my answer is more correct. <3
@quartata I was thinking exactly the same thing.
People don't like Pyth I guess
All the answers must be forever at 0
Except for mine I guess
I upvoted - it's a concise language, get over it, amirite?
I think a cheating quine in Minkolang would actually be longer than a normal quine... :P
@PeterTaylor You can correct me whenever you'd like. :P
@El'endiaStarman Can't do it in Vitsy. XD
10:28 PM
@quartata Maybe it's because it hardcodes the file name.
@VoteToClose Don't have a read-char-at-this-location command yet?
@El'endiaStarman Cheaters never prosper I suppose
@Dennis Huh. That wasn't mentioned as a rule really though
@El'endiaStarman Read the file, not the source code by location.
I'm pretty sure it needs some form of file input stream.
Ah, then Minkolang wouldn't be able to do that.
@quartata I think it's the trailing newline issue
10:30 PM
@AlexA. Why is that an issue?
Oh I see
@isaacg IMHO That's not a quine, since it is not the source code. — mınxomaτ 24 mins ago
Wow this is the first time in a while I've actually gotten upvotes on an answer
Also please use code blocks for your code. That's what they're for. :P
@AlexA. Sorry
So.. wait
Finally got the creative spark and sandboxed my first completely thought out challenge in like five months
10:32 PM
If the Pyth answer is invalid because of the newline stuff...
Hold your horses...
CJam hasn't answered yet... :P
/me personifies a language because it's easier to say :P
@El'endiaStarman I actually doubt it could do it in 6 bytes
20 hours ago, by quartata
I'm an idiot
args is two right there
@VoteToClose 20 stars whoa
I agree with @feersum though, that requiring a specific file name makes this challenge way to trivial.
10:33 PM
Needs one more to overtake the most starred message in chat
Holy smokes people like my answers this is a first
I feel loved
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

RainboltThe Traveling O The world is a five by five array of cells. It wraps on all sides. It can be visualized like... XXXXX XXXXX XXOXX XXXXX XXXXX You are an O. You love to travel the world, and you do so according to the following rules (let C be the current day): On prime days, you feel nos...

500 Rep!
@quartata Part of the reason that you haven't previously got many votes on answers might be that about 50% of your answers seem to be on a question with 8 pages of answers. Little wonder that only about 20% of answers to that question have more than 1 vote.
@PeterTaylor Ah the Mystery String Printer
10:38 PM
In an hour and a half I will have my first silver badge!
I didn't really expect to get upvotes on that one anyways
No, the trend of no upvotes started way before that
1.1k rep
Woah, it makes them simultaneous.
Perfect timing.
@VoteToClose How is it that you have 36k people reached with half my rep and I only have 8k people reached
Very confusing
@quartata He has an answer on Showcase your Language
15k people reached with more rep than either of you. :P
10:41 PM
@quartata I post on popular questions.
(they have... I guess)
@MartinBüttner Huh
@MartinBüttner When political correctness increases byte count. Even though it's technically wrong. Because 'they' is plural. See this for gender neutral pronouns.
How does that work anyways?
@VoteToClose I think it's fairly widely in use (and has been for a long time), and I think it's the perfect solution for gender-neutral language (and really dislike the fact that it doesn't work like this in German)
10:47 PM
@MartinBüttner It is widely in use, but isn't technically correct. Nobody'll blink an eye at it on normal occasions, and probably not on essays or the like. It's just the technicality of it being plural when used as intended.
@El'endiaStarman 388k reached. B)
Well, you've been around a lot longer! :P
TMW I realize I it looks like I signed "Alen" on the back of my credit card.
Cursive sucks.
Oh man I might be on my way to getting the fabled "Nice Answer" badge
@AlexA. doublecarrot.jpg
I've reworked the cat sandbox post a bit and addressed some of the comments... heading off for tonight, but let me know if you've got any more concerns/feedback/whatever.
10:55 PM
no_more_carrots.exe --> finds all files containing "carrot" in the name and deletes them. Then wipes your harddrive entirely.
@AlexA. You can golf that down to just wipe your harddrive entirely if you don't care about the principle of the matter
Oh, I forgot to add: It prints "It's the principle of the matter. ಠ_ಠ" to STDOUT before it wipes the drive.
Note that #!cat in a file also works for a cheating quine. But not when the file is called with bash. — Luk Storms 9 mins ago
Is this valid?
I believe that's considered a "cat language" program.
10:58 PM
I love guacamole.
Oh that was out of character sorry.
Are cats and guacamole somehow associated in your brain?
Or is your guac made of cat?
No. It was in my mind because I just made some

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