English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

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tchrist

14:07

@Robusto Don’t double the accusative unless it comes first. And put the pronoun at the end of the infinitive: Voy a empezar a llamarla Hermosa. Otherwise drag the pronoun all the way to the wrong: La voy a empezar a llamar Hermosa. Don't put it in the middle. Double only for Hermosa la voy a empezar a llamar, although I don't know that that one works so well there.

And it's an adjective, so I dunno.

@Jez Sounds kinda weird.

People say it.

Jez

guess it must be British. doesn't sound at all weird over here.

infinitesimal simplicio

I'm finding a lot of British references on the web :)

tchrist

You’re more worried about those things.

infinitesimal simplicio

me?

tchrist

No.

English people worried about whether something is expected of them socially.

infinitesimal simplicio

14:11

It's just not the done thing in these parts.

tchrist

Kinda la-di-da stuffy, eh?

infinitesimal simplicio

sounds kinda southern US

tchrist

Ah, is that it?

I could buy that for a Confederate dollar.

infinitesimal simplicio

tchrist

@Robusto Mid to upper 70s here. That’s temperature, not inches. :)

Jez

14:21

I've decided on a name for my main protagonist at last: Vivienne

not too cliché, doesn't really sound like a young or old person's name

works well

infinitesimal simplicio

male?

Jez

um.

it's clearly a women's name

infinitesimal simplicio

oh, sorry

I was going to say it's not the done thing to call a man Vivienne :-)

Jez

ah, good. the name is unambiguously female then :-)

now, read this:

The guard eyed the attendant so as to leave no doubt. The attendant tried again, as Vivienne had in the meantime fallen back into a state of semi-consciousness:
“Vivienne. Vi–” The attendant stopped himself with a brief sigh. “Please wake up. Yes, that's right. Now, your name is '1466'.”
“'1466'?”
“That's right. It's a number, and it's your name. You lost a lot of your memory when that rock hit your head.”

tell me when you've read it

tchrist

Vivian is a man’s name.

Jez

14:34

well Vivienne isn't

@infinitesimalsimplicio @tchrist have you read the passage?

bloody hell you people are useless

might was well visit the Western wall, i'd get more of a response

tchrist

Beggars can’t be choosers. Nor pushers.

Jez

i really miss kit

Jez

15:03

nope, screw it. I'm calling the main character Rebecca now.

that fits better, and her friends can call her Becky or Becks or something

infinitesimal simplicio

i'm not into fiction

i have enough trouble with nonfiction

:-)

ROFL

Cerberus

15:20

@Robusto I agree, but Ashworth said this when sounded OK to him.

Which surprised me.

Robusto

15:31

@tchrist Interesting. I was going to ask you how to understand when to put the preposition into post-position.

tchrist

Prepositions never go after. :)

Robusto

I mean pronouns. Sorry.

tchrist

BTW, Just as I exactly reached 250, I’ve hit the 30k limit on the list of shitass questions:

A: "Are these sentences correct?"—Is a title like this enough reason to close a question?

Summary After looking into this in some detail, I now strongly believe in the following proposition Resolved: The words “correct” and “grammatical” should both be forbidden in question titles. Actually, just the strings correct and gramma would be better, not full words. They are almost a...

Robusto

Brain cramp.

tchrist

All it takes is watching the nightly deletions.

Robusto

15:33

Heh.

I've had it up to here with shitass questions. Seriously.

Jez

@Robusto what do you think of the phrase "the done thing"?

is it common round your way?

Robusto

@Jez Sounds kinda British to me.

Jez

it probably is

Robusto

I don't hear it at all here.

Jez

does it make sense to you?

Robusto

15:35

You hear "it isn't done," but that's not the same thing.

Oh, I know what it means.

Jez

how come?

Robusto

It's just obvious.

Jez

hmm

well it's perfectly normal in British english

Robusto

I would not use it myself unless I were deliberately affecting a British voice.

Jez

you guys should borrow the phrase. i don't see a US equivalent

tchrist

15:39

We aren’t so worried about our panties.

terdon

@tchrist Speak for yourself. I can hardly sleep at night for worry.

tchrist

@terdon That’s because you can never recall where you left them and are worried that you may be discovered.

terdon

True, true.

Johan Larsson

16:00

Tom is your ocd broken?

tchrist

@JohanLarsson Ipso facto, or momentarily?

Johan Larsson

one of them

I posted a thing with glyphs, expected a list of errors :)

list of | with?

tchrist

I think I didn’t see that happen.

Johan Larsson

4 hours ago, by Johan Larsson

was playing with a logo

tchrist

Oh that. Rob is right.

Johan Larsson

16:06

the shear thing?

Cerberus

16:17

Hello, all.

I have bought cheese.

How about you?

tchrist

16:54

Boughten cheese is certainly more expeditious than homemade.

2 hours later…

Cerberus

18:54

@tchrist And more palatable, probably.

2 hours later…

Robusto

20:25

In English, do we consider contractions one word or two? Do we have any questions on ELU about this?

Johan Larsson

example?

Robusto

It's not whether I didn't do it, but whether I would've done it.

tchrist

@Robusto We consider them one word.

Sorry, you had two contractions. :)

Jez

@Robusto I'd say one, for most purposes. Considering people sometimes even call a short phrase a "word".

tchrist

A contraction is a word.

Robusto

20:27

That was my feeling, but the more I thought about it the more my analytical side tried to destroy the feeling.

tchrist

I’d’ve told you if it weren’t that way now-a-days — which is also one word.

Robusto

Yeah, the I'd've example featured in my inner debate.

tchrist

However, you do have to lex and tag them differently for purposes of computational linguistics.

Remember that orthography is artificial.

> I can’t go.
Can’t I go?

Robusto

Yes, but so, to some degree, are word boundaries themselves.

tchrist

Notice that it moves as one.

And in fact, is ungrammatical if you expand it.

> *Cannot I go?
Can I not go?

Robusto

20:29

There are cases, though I can't think of one just off the top of my head, where you have to unpack a contraction to move it to a different syntactic function.

tchrist

I’ll wait. :)

Answer: contracted auxiliary verbs in sentence-final position.

Robusto

You will or you won't?

tchrist

Not a contracted auxiliary verb.

A contracted negation.

Robusto

OK, how is won't not a negation?

tchrist

No, it is. But it is not a contracted auxiliary.

Robusto

20:31

OK, give me an example.

tchrist

I’m ready. Is he?
Yes, *he’s.
Yes, he is.

Robusto

Yes, there it is.

Oh, before I forget: I got the 100K swag today. It comprises another ELU tee shirt, a large StackExchange coffee cup, and assorted SE-branded stickers.

No keys to a Lamborghini, sadly.

tchrist

Stickies.

¿De cuántas onzas será la taza?

Robusto

Tal vez 16 onzas.

tchrist

That’ll do.

> You think *that’ll?

Robusto

20:36

I believe Ogden Nash used sentence final contractions of auxiliary verbs to good effect.

tchrist

One thing that’s slow in coming is unflinchingly reading figures that occur in sentences in the language they’re found in.

Robusto

One kind of sin is called a sin of commission, and that is very important,
And it is what you are doing when you are doing something you ortant,
And the other kind of sin is just the opposite and is called a sin of omission and is equally bad in the eyes of all right-thinking people, from Billy Sunday to Buddha,
And it consists of not having done something you shuddha.

tchrist

77,515 = setecientos mil, quinientos quince.

And now we are become marriage counsellors:

Your wife is right. You probably should consider adopting that viewpoint as a general policy towards furthering domestic tranquility. :) — tchrist 16 mins ago

Robusto

Llevamos muchos sombreros aquí.

Jez

damnit, dialogue in English is ridiculously hard to punctuate right

which of these is correct:

Rebecca looked up again. “I didn't do it. They must be lying.”

tchrist

20:43

¿A causa del sol brillante que os quema hoy?

Jez

Rebecca looked up again.
“I didn't do it. They must be lying.”

Johan Larsson

they are identical?

Jez

new paragraph, or just a new sentence?

usually you start speech with a new para

but here i'm describing her action and then immediately quoting her

so maybe it can go in the same para? I don't know.

Johan Larsson

ok a Tom level question then.

Jez

huh?

Johan Larsson

20:46

<- have no idea

tchrist

No le pidas peras al olmo.

Johan Larsson

21:11

jomenvisst

1 hour later…

infinitesimal simplicio

22:18

yahoo.thepostgame.com/blog/balancing-act/201503/…

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