English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

12:13 AM

@tchrist Good.

tchrist

@Robusto Really? That’s interesting. You do need to use the front of your mouth more, it’s true. Dentals not alveolars.

Robusto

1:46 AM

@tchrist Yeah, it puts all that front-of-the-mouth stuff in easy reach. And the tongue is loose and well deployed for all that r-rolling. Plus the v and b are easier to make in that Latin style.

Cerberus

2:07 AM

> This is the last day when I'll be waiting for you by your locker.

How does that sound to you?

Cerberus

3:26 AM

@tchrist I have noticed they actually use the English word feeling.

It's weird!

The Romance people aren't supposed to rape their own language the way we do.

tchrist

4:35 AM

@Cerberus Like a stalker?

@Cerberus You. Must. Be. Joking.

Cerberus

@tchrist That all?

tchrist

Dunno.

I am slightly well tipped.

Cerberus

Nothing that sounds odd?

Ah.

The psy variant?

tchrist

s/when/that/

Cerberus

Ahah!

tchrist

4:36 AM

The Macallan 18 variant.

Cerberus

That's what I wanted to hear.

Is that a brand?

tchrist

omfg

Jesus wept.

Cerberus

I saw an old comment of mine where I told Ashworth that when sounded odd to me.

Sorry, I ain't no connoisseur of booze.

tchrist

This isn’t booze.

Cerberus

Allora, ch'è?

(Is that even correct?)

tchrist

4:38 AM

This is 18-year-old single malt whisky aged in Spanish sherry casks from Jerez.

The Macallan distillery

The Macallan distillery is a single malt Scotch whisky distillery in Craigellachie, Moray. The Macallan Distillers Ltd, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Edrington Group which purchased the brand from Highland Distillers in 1999. In 2009, The Herald reported that Macallan was "the world’s third largest-selling single malt (behind Glenfiddich and Glenlivet) with over 500,000 cases a year, and second largest by value". The Scotsman published a quote from Ken Grier on 16 August 2009, stating: "We have now overcome Glenfiddich to move into the second biggest selling single malt by volume behi...

Cerberus

Ah, I knew it.

I was thinking whisky.

tchrist

When I graduated from college an 18 ran you $55.

It’s nearly doubled twice since then.

Cerberus

Money, money, money.

tchrist

It lasts a long time.

Cerberus

Funny.

tchrist

4:39 AM

More than 18 and there is too much sherry.

The 12 is nice enough, but the 18 is what you want.

I used to pick it up for cheap running through Heathrow before the duty-free became a scam.

It smells so good you can (and perhaps even should) take it in a brandy snifter.

Life is too short to drink whisky that needs to be poisoned with soda before you can drink it.

It should taste good.

Note that I am a pop guy, so when I say soda, I don't mean pop.

I have no idea how to say Craigellachie, let alone Creag Eileachaidh.

Doesn’t @MattE.Эллен live at the Crag? I bet he knows!

Cerberus

5:04 AM

Hah.

I don't think the fords of oxen are in Scotland.

tchrist

Well, the Carrock, then.

Or the Tor.

Something Keltic.

Cerberus

The Tor is perhaps not so far away.

tchrist

I think Beorn has dibs on the Carrock.

Okay, Randy just jumped into my lap and is all a-snugglin’, He wants me to come to bed.

These cannot be typos.

They must be brainos.

Good night, good morning, and good day. Eh.

Cerberus

Sleep well!

@tchrist Another English term they use: gay friendly...

Not to mention gay.

tchrist

@Cerberus They do say gente gay which is nicer than bixa/bicha. But gay is homophonous with English guy. Mostly.

In Spain, it's just gente que entiende.

Although the other gets said, as well as much ruder things.

Cerberus

5:24 AM

@tchrist Yes, so I noticed.

By the way, they also said what sounded like "pessime idea".

Did we talk about the superlative in Portuguese?

It was translated as "terrible idea", so I'm sure I heard it right.

tchrist

The superlative is PESSimo.

With an acute to show the stress.

Hence, pessimal.

UMa PESSima iDEA

Portuguese has all the superlatives, yes, including the so-called irregulars.

Should be in the chat log.

No double-s for the Spanish, but yes for Portuguese and Italian. I don't know if Italian has the RRIMO versions but the others do.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, but...how could the accent be anywhere else?

So you mean those superlatives are still productive in Portuguese?

It may be in the log somewhere.

tchrist

@Cerberus But in PT&ES you must write it. In IT you must just "know".

Cerberus

By the way, they also seem to be using the English word caring, and it means something like "care, dedication".

tchrist

This is a soap opera.

Cerberus

5:35 AM

@tchrist Oh, sure, but I have never learned the Spanish accentuation. I only know it for the longer inherited words.

@tchrist It is indeed.

Eat that, Germany and your Handy!

I will ask my Brazilian friend about these words.

We're seeing a Brazilian film on Sunday.

tchrist

I have never heard all those EN words in real PT speakers. But they were gente culta, who speak either language fine wo mixing.

Brazilians in contrast use English constantly, but not well.

Cerberus

Do they?

Of course soap operas are pretty bad. Not as bad as business, but still.

This is also a very recent telenovela, from 2014.

tchrist

@Cerberus Which is why the orthography of ES&PT is a blessing in that regard. I don't understand how people learn IT w/o knowing the stresses. For me it is obvious but I could not teach an EN speaker.

Cerberus

I don't know, it never struck me as particularly difficult in Italian.

Most languages don't indicate stress consistently, I think...

Italian does have an accent on città, does it not?

tchrist

All Iberian languages do so.

Cerberus

5:40 AM

A limited set.

And you still have to know the rules.

tchrist

Not to them.

Cerberus

They only indicate accent when it diverges from the rules, do they not?

Perhaps Italian is the same, but just with fewer exceptions, or more complex rules?

In Dutch, there are no such accents.

Except in rare cases.

With minimal pairs.

tchrist

The accent is on the penult if the word ends in a vowel, n, or s. Otherwise it is at the end. It is a trivial rule.

All deviations from that require a written accent.

Cerberus

I'm sure Italian has some rules.

Probably antepenult in most cases?

tchrist

Buona sorte, or whatever they say.

Cerberus

5:43 AM

Good luck?

I don't know, my active Italian is nonexistent.

But I am glad you have studied the languages with so much caring.

tchrist

Randy has gone into the closet and lain down with Lorin in the cuddle pile. I am deserted. So fickle, my boys.

Cerberus

I think the accent is on caríng, by the way.

tchrist

keirin

Cerberus

Oh, well, they will come out of the closet eventually.

tchrist

queirin

Cerberus

5:45 AM

Quoi?

tchrist

Triyng to fix the spelling.

You have to respell per their rules.

Cerberus

Paulo & Miguel 33 The Ring (Eng Sub) 中文字幕

►

tchrist

That's why it is not a mess.

Cerberus

You can listen to her say it for yourself.

The link points to the correct time.

Maybe it is some Portuguese word after all.

After all, they have words like carinho, or whatever.

I just made that word up, but I actually think that's what she said now.

It was just the awkward translation that misled me.

I hope you're not actually watching that filth now.

tchrist

Heh

Well it started at the beginning.

Isn't that just a crazy blur?

Cerberus

5:52 AM

Huh.

tchrist

The sound of the language.

Cerberus

For me it jumps to the right time. For you it didn't?

Oh, yes, it is.

No it did not.

What browser?

Chrome.

5:53 AM

It works for me both in Chrome and in FF.

Most odd.

tchrist

That was amusing though.

Cerberus

Oddissimo.

What was?

tchrist

Had no idea. I don't watch TV, let alone hunky soaps.

RArissimo.

Cerberus

Neither do I.

tchrist

raRISimo.

Cerberus

5:55 AM

Somehow this appeared as a suggestion on Youtube.

On the second syllable, obviously.

tchrist

Uma sorpresa personal.

Cerberus

Personal, pourquoi?

tchrist

Irony.

Cerberus

Ah, the way it appeared on Youtube, yes.

tchrist

Me they just offer BBC and baroque.

Cerberus

5:57 AM

No doubt "personalised".

tchrist

Yes thst.

Cerberus

I always listen to classical music on Youtube.

And chansons and such.

I often just put on some playlist.

For hours.

But I don't think it suggests that to me, oddly.

tchrist

You can use peculiar. It does not mean weird. The Portuguese use exquisito for that. Which is weird.

The Spanish use it like the rest of us though.

Cerberus

I could use peculiar, I could use odd, I could use strange, but...what do you mean?

tchrist

I mean your sorpresa peculiar.

Bespoke.

Cerberus

6:01 AM

That is their intention, no doubt.

tchrist

Customized just for you.

Cerberus

But am I such a rara avis that they get it kind of wrong?

tchrist

Then why do you keep watching? ;-)

Cerberus

Well.

tchrist

Because you love to hear Portuguese spoken, I know I know.

Cerberus

6:03 AM

Who do I keep stuffing myself with junk food?

Yes, the Portuguese helps.

Whenever it is too boring or annoying, I listen to the words entirely.

tchrist

Few naifs would even guess it a Romance tongue.

Cerberus

Most of the time, I half listen.

I did tell you what my Brazilian friend said?

It seems I did not.

tchrist

Romance should be if not all vowels, rich with them. That seems all consonants.

Cerberus

His Dutch teacher told him it sounded like Russian to her.

tchrist

What

Cerberus

6:05 AM

And upon thinking about, he said he kind of agreed.

tchrist

Oh I bet!

Cerberus

Even though he can of course understand it effortlessly.

tchrist

But Brazilian doesn't sound like that. At all.

Cerberus

Yes, well, I still find Brazilian considerably harder than Spanish.

But better than Portuguese from Portugal.

tchrist

True.

Cerberus

6:06 AM

Or at least than from Lisbon, as you said.

tchrist

Lord yes.

All Iberian Portuguese is hard. Always stress-timed.

Cerberus

Right.

But it is the missing syllables that kill me.

tchrist

In Italian and Spanish, you know which word they said even if you don't know the word.

Cerberus

Yes.

But not in French.

Even though my French is much better.

I mean, I can understand French much better, but still, when I don't know the word(s), I won't be able to guess where the word barriers are.

tchrist

The missing syllables are why the PT can grok ES but not vice versa. The Spanish say the missing bits that the Portuguese know are there. Going the other way, there is nothing.

Cerberus

6:09 AM

Yeah.

tchrist

PT & FR are both like that.

Cerberus

Zuid-Afrikanen also remove endings and such, but the remaining stems are pronounced clearly.

Their pronunciation is not a problem.

tchrist

I know Rob has some trouble with ES word boundaries. He does not know his good fortune.

Cerberus

Sure, there will always be some issues.

But comparatively few, probably.

tchrist

But it is night and day.

Cerberus

6:12 AM

Don't you agree that French poses the same challenge?

tchrist

I can simultaneously translate PT I am reading into spoken ES without hesitation and at speed. But I'll be damned if I can understand what they are saying. It is the most bizarre fucking cognitive puzzle.

Yes, French can be like that.

A language you can read WELL but to which you are deaf. So weird.

It does get better after a long while, but it is freaky.

You know.

Scots can be like that.

Cerberus

Oh, I'm sure.

tchrist

Does your country have soaps like that?

Cerberus

I can still understand French better than Italian, but still a lot worse than one would expect based on my reading skill.

Like what?

That video you saw is apparently only the gay story line, someone cut it.

tchrist

Oh.

Cerberus

6:21 AM

32 gay episodes out of 200 actual episodes.

tchrist

@Cerberus Yeah. Same.

Italian though just kinda works/happens.

French does not.

Cerberus

Wait, it's 200.

tchrist

Da igual.

="Same diff"

From dar.

Cerberus

Heh.

> Ao fim de 194 episódios exibidos, o episódio final de O Beijo do Escorpião registou 17,3% Rating e 41,3% de Share, com recorde de Share e líder no horário.

Not sure what those terms mean. English is hard.

But I am guessing it was extremely popular in Portugal.

tchrist

Assim creio.

They have huge billboards of men clad in tiny underwear in Portugal. It is the only Western country where male anorexia is a serious problem.

Normally only females come down with it, population-wise.

Cerberus

6:27 AM

Mm you don't have such billboards?

tchrist

Not like in Portugal. It is everywhere.

Also, billboards are illegal in my county. ;-)

Is this too large?

Yes.

Ah, good for you.

We consider them eyetrash.

It slams into you when you hit the county line. Denver has them aplenty.

Cerberus

6:30 AM

Of course.

We have recently banned advertisements on scaffolding.

tchrist

You immediately say WTF is WRONG with these people!

Cerberus

Also because we got complaints from...UNESCO.

Yeah, it was that bad.

But the city got a lot of money from the advertisers.

tchrist

Sell cocaine then.

Cerberus

The only problem was that building owners got even more money from the advertisers—so much that they kept the scaffolding for far longer than necessary.

tchrist

That way it doesn't bother the rest of us.

Cerberus

6:32 AM

They were even suspected of using useless scaffolding just for the ads.

tchrist

We don't allow even roadside billboards.

Cerberus

At least we have few of those.

Russia is really really bad.

As though Satan vomited on the streets.

Is this tiny?

I think that's Holland.

tchrist

The underwear?

Scant enough.

Cerberus

tchrist

It's also an urban thing.

Cerberus

6:35 AM

London.

Yeah.

Where more people see it.

tchrist

Sick

Cerberus

And are more used to vulgarity.

tchrist

Crude

It is tomorrow.

Must sleep.

Good night. Enjoy the soap.

Cerberus

Haha sleep well.

I'm going to bed as well, in a minute.

Johan Larsson

what is a font with all uppercase letter but where the ~lowercase~ are smaller called?

Cerberus

6:42 AM

Small capitals?

Small caps

In typography, small capitals (usually abbreviated small caps) are uppercase (capital) characters set at the same height and weight as surrounding lowercase (small) letters or text figures. They are used in running text to prevent capitalized words from appearing too large on the page, and as a method of emphasis or distinctiveness for text alongside or instead of italics, or when boldface is inappropriate. For example, the all-caps TEXT IN CAPS appears as text in caps in small caps. They can be used to draw attention to the opening phrase or line of a new section of text, or to provide an additional...

Johan Larsson

sounds right ty sir

is it morning in Holland?

Cerberus

Yes, but I'm trying to ignore it.

How about Sweden?

7.47 on a Saturday?

Johan Larsson

The grass is white and the tests are green.

We got snow last night, very surprising.

@Cerberus for some reason I was early bird all week, at work before 07:00 all days I think

did not catch any worms

found bugs though

Cerberus

7:34 AM

@JohanLarsson Were they juicy, at that hour?

Johan Larsson

they were dripping with dumbs

many of them written early in the morning the day before

Cerberus

Dumbs ones are the juiciest!

But now I must sleep.

Happy hunting!

Johan Larsson

sleepy sleeping

Cerberus

Thanky thanking!

poof

Robusto

9:35 AM

@Cerberus You could drop the when with no ill effect. And probably for the better.

Johan Larsson

11:22 AM

Drew a logo for fun, flame please /cc @tchrist & all

The P is a little too fat.

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Try a little reverse slant on the letters, and reduce the P to the same size as the rest.

Johan Larsson

googling slant

ty sir

@Robusto Is that what you mean with reverse slant? 1 deg.

Maybe better to have them the same size, simpler

Open sans (light) is a nice font imo.

Robusto

11:55 AM

@JohanLarsson I mean reverse slant like \. A forward slant would be /.

Johan Larsson

ok they are leaning 1 deg in that direction in the pic. You want more?

Robusto

one degree is not enough.

You need to go at least 10, imo.

Johan Larsson

pretty sure I don't like that :)

Robusto

Well, you screwed it up.

That looks foul.

You don't just slant the characters, you're supposed to skew them.

@JohanLarsson So imagine each character has a box that is normally straight up and down. What I'm talking about is turning that box into a parallelogram that slants left ten degrees (or fifteen, perhaps), but the bottom of the character box is still on the baseline and the top is parallel with the bottom, not tilted.