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9:00 AM
@Purmou Yes, yes u did
@Flimzy I already upvoted you
Though, are you sure you're desperately in need of it? :P
hehe, well thanks... but no... I don't need the rep
I don't even need the ego boost
9:01 AM
Woah...@Flimzy, you've almost overtaken Jonathon! O.O
Uhm... okay... why?
@Amithkk I have it on VirtualBox; does that count? :D
I also had it via Wubi on my previous laptop.
@El'ndia: I noticed that... I think that just means I had a boring Saturday at home, while he was living a more interesting life.
@Amithkk We use Ubuntu at school...I really hate it
@Flimzy Lol.
9:03 AM
Actually, he's ahead of me by 10 right now
let me go accept 6 answers, so I'll beat him by 2!
Speaking of rep races...
We should so some sort of first-shall-be-last rep ranking
9:03 AM
maybe give out badges for the users with the least rep?
and with the most down votes
@Flimzy: ...being a bit literal now are we? :P
you should be able to get negative rep
if you get downvoted after just joining
I'm tempted to post that on meta, just for laughs
9:04 AM
@Purmou no
but I'm sure the SE staff wouldn't think it's nearly as funny as I do
and they'd close it very quickly
we'd all upvote it
that'd show 'em
@Flimzy I would down vote it, also for laughs.
Mee too
@Caleb Wouldn't it be better to upvote? He'd be even further towards the end! :P
9:05 AM
you can't downvote it, @Amithkk :P
so 10 questions OR 10 answers gets you a fulfilled commitment?
Alright, hang on a moment
@Flimzy you just jumped up to 1464 rep :D
@Purmou ...and I only contributed 10 points to that... O.O
9:08 AM
and now I'm tied for 1st place for that +50 rep!
@Flimzy Uh, actually, no; you'd still be 20 points behind.
what do you guys think?
Q: Is saying "Oh My God" really using God's name in vain?

PurmouIt's become habitual for me to say "Oh my God" in a situation where I am shocked or surprised, as I'm sure it's become been for a lot of people. I said "Oh My God" in the presence of a friend of mine once, a long time ago, and he said, "Don't use God's name in vain" or "Don't use the Lord's name...

Oh wait...you'd be 20 points behind in rep, but yes, you're tied for first place on that question.
@Flimzy You do know that bounties don't go to the highest voted candidate answer don't you?
They do if the OP doesn't award the bounty
9:10 AM
altho only half of the bounty
the higher the votes
They are manually awarded at the discretion of the bounty offerer.
so I'm only in line for +25
the more likely his answer gets picked
9:10 AM
@Flimzy Ya that's true, but since you were saying +50 I wasn't sure you knew that.
Well, I already got +40 from it, even if I don't get picked
Which was totally worth staying up an extra hour later than I wanted
@Flimzy Lol.
That reminds me...
I'm gonna go to bed now.
5:15 am... O.O
G'night everyone (currently in chat)!
good night, @ElendiaStarman
@ElendiaStarman Good night
9:12 AM
Q: Matthew 20:16 Badges

FlimzyI think it would be appropriate on this site to add a new set of badges, based on Matthew 20:16, and should be awarded for reaching the following criteria: Achieves negative reputation 100 accumulated down votes on questions 100 total down votes on answers

Is that obviously tongue-in-cheek enough not to piss anyone off?
@Flimzy Beautiful
@StefanoPalazzo Welcome to Christianity.SE
@StefanoPalazzo: Welcome! Good night! :P
I just tagged it ... that should serve as a nice safeguard, I hope.
9:14 AM
@ElendiaStarman Weren't you going to bed like hours ago?
@Flimzy The tag is all you need -- and that's awesome by the way.
@Flimzy: Can I edit a little to expand on the idea?
I wanted to add suggested badge names, but I'm not clever enough at this time of night.
@Flimzy you generally shouldn't use "meta tags"
sorry I misspoke, you should never ever use any meta tags :)
Stefano: Meaning 'tongue-in-cheek'?
yeah, tags that don't make any sense on their own. like "easy-question", "beginner", or "big-list"
@Stefano: Should I just remove that tag and let the humor stand on its own?
9:19 AM
can you vote to close? (I'm not commited to the beta)
Vote to close my own question you mean? Yeah, I suppose I could do that.
@StefanoPalazzo awww
oh I see :)
well yeah remove the tag. there's nothing at all wrong with a little humour of course
@StefanoPalazzo Could we let it be for a day? See how it goes? :P
@Stefano: It's a bit of an inside joke you see... and my goal is to make it clear that it's a joke without outright saying it's a joke.
Tag removed.
9:21 AM
it's on Meta, right?
I think it's clear enough (especially after @Caleb's edits) that it's a joke now
Yes, it's on meta
oh, wait
@Flimzy I think that he though you used tongue-in-cheek on a main site question
I'd say you generally want to avoid funny question on the site itself, it doesn't make a good impression. on meta, you can be a little bit more tolerant. (the tag is wrong on both sites, but don't worry about it too much - just a hint)
Anyone who reads the question closely willl see that it's not serious, since achieving "negative reputation" is impossible.
I think I accidentally removed @Caleb's changes.
no, you didn't
9:24 AM
Oh, no I didn't... Isee he just edited it
is the site going well then?
My impression is that it is going well...
@StefanoPalazzo I think so
@Flimzy: Maybe make it a community wiki, but I think the tag you put is perfect, please put that back.
9:25 AM
@Caleb: Stefano asked me to remove the tag... and I don't want to make life difficult for our SE staff... especially not for a silly joke
the thing is, these meta tags spread like viruses
and they can be extremely difficult to get rid of
@Flimzy True but Stefano isn't SE staff :)
would badge names like "Condemned" overdo it?
Maybe not, but he has more experience than I suspect most of us combined...
oh, I'm not staff, no. Just a community moderator
9:27 AM
Purmou: That kinda defeats the "last shall be first" idea, doesn't it?
good point
I'd support badge names like "Good Samaritan"...
that would seem to fit with the current badge names
are you going for a "they mean well" kind of thing?
I've got another hint maybe :)
Or how about "Deacon" and "Edler" etc?
9:28 AM
we've had an awesome problem (on AskUbuntu.com) getting rid of the "ubuntu-desktop" tag, nearly every question had it
is there a simple way to mention someone who has gone through several hardships?
so make sure early on that you don't have a tag :)
or is this better suited for English language SE
answer updated, tell me your thoughts
@StefanoPalazzo: Good suggestion :)
@Purmou That does sound like an EL&U thing unless you want a biblical reference.
9:30 AM
@Caleb I sort of did.
@StefanoPalazzo Good point. We have the same issue with on U&L.
@Flimzy those badge names don't make much sense :P
Can we ask SE staff to blacklist right off the bat. Come to think of it, I wonder if they already have.
@Caleb you do don't you ;-)
Do they make less sense than "Archaelogist" or "Announcer"?
9:31 AM
in the end we had to blacklist ubuntu-(desktop), but that's a last resort
you win again
The only ordering logic I applied was that "Apostle" seems like the "highest rank", so I gave it to the un-attainable badge.
@Caleb No it's not blacklisted yet, I just tested on my own question. I'm going to request that.
to meta!
@Flimzy now that i think about it they're fitting
"...and the first will be last."
we should do something for this
user with the highest rep, or something
I can't think of a clever way to address that part... but maybe you can
9:34 AM
maybe since we're "rewarding" the lowrep users
we should degrade the high-rep users
We could give a "Loser" badge to the user that receives the highest rep each day?
i think condemned could fit well here
though i think people would take that too seriously
what do you think?
not to spoil the fun
I'd like to keep it positive if we can
you know that you can't have your own badges, right? :-)
9:36 AM
@StefanoPalazzo they do
@StefanoPalazzo: Yes, I realize that :)
@StefanoPalazzo Ya we know.
I hope that contributes to the obviousness of the joke, too.
@Flimzy how about "Judas"
The atmosphere over on meta could use a little lightening tho.
9:36 AM
"Judas Chalice"
The other badges are church titles
what if we use 'Usher'
ah, i see
(not to insult any ushers)
as the "highest rep" badge
you know, that fits
it's sort of degrading to the person, but in a good way, because an usher guides people
I'm not sure it'll be clear that 'Usher' is meant as a "lowest position"...
9:39 AM
@Purmou Sheep?
There should be a Jesus Christ badge
Sheep = sleep
good night
especially as I'm writing it here... "Usher: Was the top rep-earner for the day"... might actually be taken literally to mean they "ushered in a lot of rep" or similar
@Amithkk: I think many would take offense to that... it could be considered blasphemous.
Although a "shepherd" badge might fit well
spepherd would be good somewhere
or Prophet
9:43 AM
@Amithkk Agree with @Flimzy there. I'm enjoying the fun here but we need to be extra careful that our humor doesn't offend.
but seriously
good night guys
bye @Purmou
@Purmou You keep saying that :) İyi geceler.
night @Purmou
The problem with 'first shall be last' badges is that all of the legitimate "first" badges already exist... so we'd just be changing their definition.
So with that in mind, I think the 3 we have are sufficient.
9:44 AM
@Caleb You're Turkish?
they get the point across, without beating a dead horse
bye everyone
@Purmou No I'm American but I use more English on SE sites than anywhere else in my life these days.
It's fun being an ex-pat, ain't it?
9:49 AM
@Amithkk and @Purmou et al. Typically SE sites get a design when they are close to launch. We have at least 90 days of public beta before we get a real design. And only a few SE sites have launched just after the initial 90 days. I'd say we are looking at closer to 6 months before we have a real design if everything goes well.
@Flimzy Aren't most of us here ex-pats?
At this time of night? Maybe so
where by "night" I mean "night in the USA"
@waxeagle Did you mean before or after 90 days? Typo or bad news for anybody that can't prove viability in 3 months?
Or were you referring to something else?
@Flimzy As Christians we're all strangers in a strange land, our citizenship is elsewhere. But yes I am an ex-pat on earth too at a place where it's definitly not night-time.
9:54 AM
Very nice
well it is night here... and I should have slept long ago, but I was having too much fun making up silly meta questions
@Caleb I edited is that better? typically it takes much longer than 90 to launch?
good night
@Flimzy buenas noches
@waxeagle Yup. I was hoping that was the direction you were suggesting, although it would be interesting to see if there was a curve of diminishing probably for sites that take too long.
@Caleb no clue, RPG has been open for over a year and is just finally back to "ok". If a site is generating even a small volume of questions, but more importantly lots of good answers it will stay open for a while in beta even if its not close to launch. Not sure there is a standard yet, but they want sites to succeed
10:11 AM
@waxeagle There is a standard
@Purmou U asleep ;)
1 hour later…
11:32 AM
@Amithkk Is that posted somewhere? Obviously if a site if failing it will be closed, but I don't think there is a hard and fast rule for when a site is shut down.
Wow. More bounties and we're not even out of private beta!
11:53 AM
@Caleb I'm not sure how productive the alcohol question's bounty really is, isn't that fairly subjective? I can see strong arguments from both sides with no real definitive answer...
the bounty on your question should be about 10x higher :). Thats a book waiting to be written right there
@waxeagle I agree. That might be something I add bounty points to myself, but I was thinking about letting it sit around for a while to give people time to research and wait until the site has some more expertise in that area, then using a bounty to get it back into view.
@Caleb yeah, personally unless its really important I would let a question sit for a month or so before I added a bounty.
12:34 PM
morning all
@waxeagle how goes the beta?
@CRoss seems like its going reasonable enough. Some contentiousness, but I think its been pretty well ironed out.
It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow night. I'm going to assume we are actually going to escape private beta
@waxeagle I see no reason why not
@CRoss I don't either. I think private has served its purpose and its time to open to the masses :)
@waxeagle yeah, I think there's plenty of content for public beta and a reasonable consensus
@CRoss yup, honestly if volume keeps up the way it has (I don't think it will but it might) this site could actually be ready to go live in 90 days....
12:49 PM
@waxeagle perhaps
it's been a long time since a site actually graduated in 90 days
@CRoss i know it. Do you remember what the last one was?
@waxeagle programmers? maybe
btw, @waxeagle Why aren't you on the moderator nomination list?
@CRoss No clue. I'm not about to self nominate :)...
@CRoss if so then quiver I doubt they will ever launch at 90 again :)
Confound it all, SE is convinced that I must be a robot today. It has challenged me on almost every post or edit I have made. It probably hasn't helped that half the time I've gotten the CAPTCHA's wrong.
1:01 PM
@Caleb do you prep your posts in word and copy/paste them?
@Caleb lol that can't help at all
@waxeagle Blasphemy!
I prep them in the browser, but sometimes use a plugin that edits text-areas using vim. (Transparent to the site, outputs plain text)
I'm not doing anything different than normal and today is the first time I've had a problem. I've seen them occasionally before but once challenge a day and they usually go away.
@Caleb no clue then. Maybe the upped the standard or there is a bug...
or maybe your a robot....
Have you ever harmed a human being? or through inaction caused a human being to be harmed?
Have you ever disobeyed an order from a human, except as to cause harm to a human being?
Don't dig in a cemetery if you don't want to find skeletons.
Have you ever harmed yourself except in a situation where you would harm a human or defy a direct order from a human...
1:30 PM
@Amithkk it's okay to cause trouble on AU, but take it from me (as a friend), don't do it here.
1:46 PM
@Caleb lol are you a big bang theory fan?
@waxeagle Yes. God spoke <BANG> and there was!
@Caleb lol I mean the TV show :)
@waxeagle Oh. Never heard of it, sorry.
@Caleb ooh you should check it out :). Its an anthem to nerd everywhere...(its about 4 nerd and a hot blonde who lives across the hall from 2 of them)...Anyways there is a scene in the first season where they posit that the least accessible of all of the characters might actually be a robot and start asking him if he followed the three laws...
@waxeagle Are you insinuating that I'm an "inaccessible character"?
It's not my day. First a piece of software decides that I'm a robot, now a human thinks I'm inaccessible even though we are chatting in the same language.
Maybe I should go back to bed.
1:57 PM
@Caleb lol no not at all. Just you sugested that SE thought you were a robot :)...I was just seeing if you were bound by the 3 laws :)
@waxeagle Or maybe I AM a robot. What if I don't pass the 3 tests?
@Caleb well, either you aren't bound by the 3 laws or you are bound and thus are a paradox :)
BTW @waxeagle after your comment above I started poking around. So far if I were to write a moderator nomination report it would have "- has previous moderator experience, - has no idea why he hasn't been nominated, - has dominated the tag". I'm not sure such an entry would do anything for either of our reputations however :)
By the way those are great questions. I was going to ask them myself but you beat me to it. It might take some time go get the right people around to do really good write-ups on them however.
@Caleb I just did one for IG. It was the one I was most disappointed in the answers to so far. Pretty disappointed on LA, but haven't had time yet
@Caleb you could cite meta/chat involvement
@Caleb I'm not a huge fan of pro-tem nominations. They don't add much value and the SE community team will decide who to pick by evaluating the whole site
2:14 PM
@waxeagle Ya I didn't realize what I was getting into when I started that thread. I've actually thought of deleting it, but it seems to late for that so I'm just trying to make the best of it.
Hopefully the experience will be of some use to the community when it comes time for real elections.
@Caleb well you can't delete it now, at least not easily :)
@Caleb there is this.
dang 10 am and I'm already half way to the rep cap. I might actually hit it today
I have an idea that this might be one of the hardest sites to moderate in SE history. Having a diamond next to your name is going to be the equivalent of "aim stones here".
@Caleb true, although programmers seems pretty tough. Honestly I hope they make at least one of the pro-tems someone with mod experience...
@waxeagle Programmers is a black sheep. It throws off any attempt to generalize or do cross-site statistics. We might be another one of those. The black-sheep and the scape-goat.
@waxeagle How much has the experience on Gardening.SE influenced your knowledge? I see we already have more threads on meta.Christianity during private beta than there are yet total on gardening.
@Caleb yup. I have a feeling if Hermeneutics launches we might have an SO/Programmers type relationship
@Caleb Gardening has had an influence, although maybe a small one. Things like How to define whats on topic, how to deal with tags, when to close something outright and when to let the community act. We haven't had a contentious user to speak of so that's not something I'm skilled in.
2:24 PM
@waxeagle Interesting idea. I've always thought they should be rolled into the same time. Christianity is going to suffer if the people with the best hermenutical abilities are all busy elsewhere. You might be right about how it goes down, but I kind of hope not.
@Caleb I see that site as being much more technical than this one. We will have some technical elements, but that sites scope is going to be much better defined from the beginning
whereas we have been a relative free for all
Did you catch Shog9's note about how the staff was hoping Hermanutics would launch first?
@Caleb yup. I understand the sentiment.
Are there other folks in the private beta that have prior mod experience? I haven't done anything like exhaustive research, only browsed through a few folks that caught my eye.
@Caleb yes some top users are Farseeker and jrista. C. Ross, Studiohack and Mark Trapp are all mods in other places as well
those are the ones I know of, but there may be a few others
Nathan Wheeler too...
2:39 PM
I just opened the gardening meta by mistake thinking I was opening this one. I must have read the question title about vegetable tags three times before I figured out I was in the wrong place.
@Caleb lol. Well vegetable would certainly be inappropriate here :). If its borderline there then there is no way it flys here :)
2:55 PM
Morning Gents!
@JonathonByrd good morning
I have slept on even more, I'm completely willing to allow mormons and any other professing christians to join us on this site :)
@JonathonByrd - as if you could stop them :P
@JonathonByrd Why good-morning to you too.
2:59 PM
@Caleb fixed that for you :)
3:15 PM
@waxeagle I have to agree "Is x sinful?" isn't a very good question type. I don't even really want to defend my own question...
Q: Are is X a sin questions on topic?

wax eagleWe have had a couple of questions along the lines of "is X a sin?". Should these questions be on topic or should we disallow them?

I opened a meta q so we can all talk about it :)
@dancek you can VTC your own question if you want
@waxeagle gee, I was about to ask that on meta two minutes ago but then didn't
Personally I think the guidance should be if the Bible says X is sinful its worth talking about, if its silent then its probably best to just leave it up to the community...
@waxeagle yeah, i know, but couldn't I even delete it?
@dancek it has an answer so I don't think so.
you can try
3:17 PM
I just think that smoking is kinda interesting as I used to be in a church that really, really strongly doomed it.
@dancek there are strong opinions on both side of the issue thats for sure
there is actually a really good question in there, I think. The phrasing may be the issue. but I'm not sure how to do it better
Totally off topic here... does anybody have any graphical design abilities?
@JonathonByrd I'm pretty good
@JonathonByrd not if my life depended on it...
@JonathonByrd Sorry, I live in a Unix terminal, so I think that would be a no.
3:20 PM
@waxeagle me neither
I have been building a bible study website for some time. still stuck on the designs :)
If anyone can phrase christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/1004/is-smoking-sinful better, feel free to edit as much as you like without asking
@JonathonByrd: I think your answer just spawned something: christianity.stackexchange.com/q/1009/30
purmou, if you'd like to help: I've got a small budget and could pass you the files via dropbox send me your email if you're intersted
@Caleb Ha, peter has a 0% acceptance rate of his questions
thats awesome
@JonathonByrd purmou@gmail.com
Any way you can view your own accept rate?
3:23 PM
@Purmou its on your questions
it doesn't show up
@Purmou mine is 0% right now because none of my questions have what I consider to be a "best" answer yet. If no one posts a better answer on my IG question by tomorrow morning I may go ahead and accept mine, but I'm not going to do it right away.
@waxeagle I feel the same way. Though I've accepted three answers on my questions, I think.
Nope, two
@JonathonByrd I'm not much better! He asks hard questions.
I think during private beta it's ok for questions to sit around for a little while, accepting things before they have multiple good attempts at answering them isn't a great idea.
@Caleb I agree I have a few sitting
ok guys as much as I enjoy your company and dinging in the hidden tab of my browser, I need to focus on work :) last week was pretty unproductive thanks to you guys lol !
3:27 PM
@JonathonByrd A cursory glance doesn't show any of his questions that have answers I would accept. I upvoted some, but it's early to accept.
@Caleb I just started to read his question, comprehending little of what he had to say, I then noticed he hasn't accepted anything. so I chuckled, "not a chance"
@JonathonByrd I think it's a pretty interesting question about moral frameworks even if some of the historical context he referenced was over my head.
@JonathonByrd I'll take a look at the files and see what I can come up with. :)
I wish (and have so wished on nearly all other SE sites) that there was an easy way to see only questions you haven't voted on....
@Purmou Thank you for that. I sent you a chat invite via gchat too so that I don't frustrate anybody here. As you can see Purmou I'm just a programmer, not a designer :) I use a lot of "inspiration" in my designs haha
3:32 PM
@Purmou It doesn't show up until you have questions at least X days old with upvoted answers but nothing accepted. Until you hit that scenario at least once it won't show. Maybe it hasn't been enough days of your questions sitting around with upvoted answers.
@JonathonByrd Haha, programming's no fun without the graphics work! :P Though admittedly, CSS3 and HTML5 have replaced the need for graphics completely.
I really want to VTC this. do you guys think its on topic?
Q: "AD & BC" vs "CE & BCE"

Jim McKeethI personally found the suggestion to replace AD & BC with CE & BCE as the identification of the time before and after the birth of Christ to be offensive and sacrilegious. It is political correctness gone to far. I bristle anytime I hear someone use BCE. I continue to use AD & BC wh...

@Caleb I guess that would be the issue.
@waxeagle I wanted to too (as not constructive: This question is not a good fit to our Q&A format. We expect answers to generally involve facts, references, or specific expertise; this question will likely solicit opinion, debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion.) but couldn't bring myself to hit the button.
It's a "how do you feel" poll, but it also seems like there should be a way to ask something on the topic.
@Caleb shall we do it together :)
its on my radar because its the only +9 question I haven't upvoted...and I can't bring myself to upvote a q i want to close...
in fact I'm inclined to DV it just so the guy doesn't get a nice q badge for something that I feel is off topic
but thats kind of vindictive...
3:40 PM
@waxeagle Done. This is a case where I'm glad I'm not a moderator and can just vote as a citizen, but I do think that question sets a precedent that we would rather curb than encourage.
@Caleb man, its a tough call some days...having wisdom to know when to let something sit and when to kill something outright is the hardest part of a Mod's job
Thankfully its not a job you do alone. You have your own site mods to help and the wider mod community as well. In addition to your own community
4:31 PM
Q: How can one overcome lustful desires?

Jonathon ByrdEighty Three percent of college students and fifty five percent of pastors are said to be addicted to pornography. (link) Even the most Godly men, like David (OT) has been trapped by these desires. It seems that the more I try to fight these desires, the stronger that they become. It doesn't ma...

just got closed
I thought we discussed in meta that these kinds of questions were beneficial to the community
Q: Advancing in Christian Living and our walk with Jesus

Jonathon ByrdAre the questions posted to this website ONLY to be about Biblical study or may they also be related to Christian Living? Such as Christian Living: How can one escape the desires of the flesh; lust? Can't we also learn how to be better christians by asking christian lifestyle questions?

@JonathonByrd you are free to contest the close. You have a reopen vote and can post the link to the meta q.
I'm just looking for some correction here.
am I wrong?
does this question not fit the format?
This is a good question, but it's not a good for this type of Q&A. Stack Exchange is designed to create an authoritative collection of answers to canonical questions about Christianity. I can see this being asked of a congregation to share interesting discussion an through-provoking stories. But this type of story-sharing and communing isn't really what this site is about.
"We expect answers to generally involve facts, references, or specific expertise; this question will likely solicit opinion, debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion." This is better suited to a discussion forum.
-Robert Cartaino
@JonathonByrd I'm inclined to say no, but I don't have a strong opinion.
> So I want to know from the community, how do you resist temptation?
that isn't going to work here, there is no right answer and every answer is equally valid IMO
@waxeagle valid points.
so if I award the question to somebody do the not get the reward? will the question disappear after a certain amount of time?
4:38 PM
@JonathonByrd typically old closed questions are deleted. but not immediately. It also takes a recalc to remove rep (if I remember correct) from deleted questions

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