English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

it's also true that Microsoft is very poorly run, especially lately. and that they produce lots of bad software. but Windows isn't going anywhere anytime soon—it's by far the most popular in businesses and home users.

Cerberus

Yeah.

George Pompidou

let me see if I can find this article.

Cerberus

I'm a happy XP user...well, I'd switch to Linux in a heartbeat if all my programmes worked on it and if I didn't have to learn new routines.

George Pompidou

haha, have fun with no more security updates.

Cerberus

Which is not the case.

I don't care.

George Pompidou

5:20 PM

and yes, this is why most people still use windows.

Cerberus

Yeah.

It's just inertia.

What OS they use matters little to most people.

username

Hello. Sorry for a silly question, but which sentence is correct: "does it get deleted?" or "does it gets deleted"?

George Pompidou

the first one.

username

thanks, I was almost certain that the first option is correct

George Pompidou

Does it get deleted? Yes, it gets deleted.

No, it doesn't get deleted.

@Cerberus which programs do you use that are not available for Linux, out of curiosity?

Cerberus

5:35 PM

@GeorgePompidou I don't know which ones exactly, but no doubt many!

I can give you a number of programmes that I use, maybe you know which ones exist on Linux...

George Pompidou

I meant to ask more what type of programs do you use frequently? are they for work, or personal?

Cerberus

> The Oxford English Dictionary.
Autohotkey
My own programmes that I have written in Autohotkey
Steam & all its games

> Golden Dictionary
> Copernic Desktop Search 2
> Ditto clipboard manager

terdon

The OED would probably work depending on what exactly it is, autohotkey is useless since you can do all that (most?) natively on *nix anyway, clipborad managers galore, desktop searches ditto. Not sure about the dictionaries, but there are always ways around that.

George Pompidou

the only thing in there that doesn't have equivalents in Linux might be some Steam games (though Steam is available for Linux and OS X).

Cerberus

> Mmm+ (edit context menus in Windows)
Origin & all its games

George Pompidou

5:38 PM

but I suppose you like the current setup you have and don't want to learn all new things.

Cerberus

@terdon I'm sorry, but this is wrong.

terdon

@Cerberus What is?

George Pompidou

stop stop stop

you are both right.

Cerberus

I do not want an "equivalent" that can't do all the things my really good programmes can.

If I wanted that, I would use the standard functions in Windows.

@GeorgePompidou That comes on top of that, yes.

George Pompidou

Linux does have equivalents, and IMO much better equivalents to all of those things. but it's kind of silly to expect most people to be willing to learn all new things, and adapt.

Cerberus

5:39 PM

Very unlikely.

terdon

@Cerberus Oh, that's not what I meant. I meant that the *nix desktops are so customizable, there is no need for something like Autohotkey.

Cerberus

I'm sorry, that is 100% false.

terdon

@GeorgePompidou True. I'd have a hell of a time switching to Windows for example :)

Cerberus

Do you know Autohotkey?

George Pompidou

this is true. and any scripting you'd want to do can be done in any number of the billion scripting languages that exist.

@terdon me too. I don't understand it one bit.

Cerberus

5:40 PM

Autohotkey is the only language that is simple enough for me yet powerful.

There is no equivalent.

George Pompidou

shell scripting for basic stuff, python/perl/ruby/php, take your pick.

Cerberus

Ridiculous.

George Pompidou

haha.

Cerberus

@terdon Have you even used Autohotkey?

George Pompidou

nope, I've never really used Windows.

I think it's garbage.

terdon

5:41 PM

@Cerberus Umm.. OK. There are many equivalents of course. The closest would probably be xdotool on linux. But since scripting is so much more integrated, there's no real need. Granted, the syntax might be a bit more complex but the power is all there.

Cerberus

Then don't claim anything about Autohotkey.

George Pompidou

Cerberus is really really defensive of Autohotkey.

terdon

@Cerberus I've read various things you said you do with it which are easy to do on Linux. I've also checked out it's webpage and it looks like the simple scripting language that OSX has.

Cerberus

I can tell that you have not used Autohotkey as much as I have. And that you are a computer guy, which means that you already know other languages.

George Pompidou

which is fine, nobody's trying to convert you. we are simply saying that there are alternatives.

Cerberus

5:42 PM

@terdon You are mistaken.

terdon

@Cerberus In that OSX's thing is similar? Do you know the one I mean?

Cerberus

Autohotkey is not simple in what it can do, only in how easy it is to pick up if you know nothing about programming at all.

George Pompidou

@Cerberus desktop/shell automation tools are very common, and AHK is one of them. just because we have never used it doesn't mean we don't know exactly what it's capable of doing.

Cerberus

Apparently, it does mean that.

George Pompidou

you do have a good argument that you know how to use it and you don't want to learn other things, but it's silly to say that it offers things that OS X and Linux desktop automation tools don't offer

because it doesn't.

terdon

5:44 PM

@Cerberus I understand that. Same goes for that OSX thing. And xdottol really.

Cerberus

@GeorgePompidou Autohotkey is not a "desktop automation tool", so there you go. You have no idea.

George Pompidou

there is my source. right from their website.

terdon

What you describe is pretty much the definition of a desktop automation tool.

Cerberus

Well, "desktop automation" can mean what you want it to mean.

George Pompidou

and it's just a well known idea, what AHK does. OS X has automator and apple script which are similar.

terdon

5:46 PM

Yes! That's what the OSX thing is called!

George Pompidou

and there are (hyperbole) trillions of things that will do at least what AHK does if not more and better for Linux.

Cerberus

How easy is it for someone who cannot program at all to write a script in, say, Apple script that can show you which keys you have pressed down in transparent letters that follow your cursor, for example?

terdon

Admittedly, they might not be as easy to use. At least some of them anyway.

George Pompidou

not very easy, probably. it'd take me a bit of research to do.

Cerberus

I am 100% sure thet're not.

@GeorgePompidou Well, there you go. I am a total noob, and I can use Autohotkey.

George Pompidou

5:47 PM

you're right Cerberus, if you know AHK and are not familiar with programming in general, it'd be hard to make the switch.

I'm not arguing against that.

Cerberus

It can do the same things as for example C can, mostly, except that it is usable for noobs like me.

terdon

@Cerberus on the other hand, you've been using it for several years now right? How much of a newb can you be?

George Pompidou

I'm just saying, in theory, hypothetically, if we lived in an alternate universe where you got started with OS X or Linux instead of Windows, you'd be at the same level by now with other options that run on those platforms.

terdon

Exactly.

George Pompidou

all I'm trying to say is that there is very very very little that Linux cannot do that Windows can do.

and there is a lot that Windows cannot do that Linux can.

Cerberus

5:48 PM

@GeorgePompidou It's not even about the switch. It is much easier to get started with Autohotkey than with any of those other things. I have tried Javascript and Python and shell scripting, and they are 1000x less user friendly to pick up.

George Pompidou

I didn't say switching.

I said an alternate universe where you never even used Windows.

Cerberus

@GeorgePompidou The question is not what can it do, but can it do it as easily.

terdon

@Cerberus And those are not really what we're talking about.

Cerberus

That's just to show you how good Autohotkey is for people like me.

George Pompidou

not to keep this discussion going or anything, but I'm just saying

terdon

5:50 PM

There is probably no direct equivalent to AHK but there are loads of GUI apps with nice menus and buttons that let you do most of the stuff I read it does. Probably none of them does all, but a combination of multiple programs will.

Cerberus

I can dive straight into it and program my computer. I could not do that with other languages.

George Pompidou

Linux has a developer community that is a world strong.

@terdon click on my link

terdon

@Cerberus Yes, but you've already learned how to use it. Which may well have been easy but you still had to learn it.

Cerberus

@GeorgePompidou Of course I know about Iron. It is far from complete. Many things do not work yet.

George Pompidou

I'm not saying it's perfect and an alternative, I'm just saying that you shouldn't doubt equivalent things on Linux.

someone, somewhere, has probably made something that works.

that's all I'm saying.

you just have to search.

Cerberus

5:51 PM

@terdon Yes. And Javascript is too hard for me. So there you go.

terdon

@GeorgePompidou Ha! OK, there is a direct equivalent :)

George Pompidou

but yeah, it's not anywhere near as complete

terdon

@Cerberus Of course it is! Who said anything about such things?

George Pompidou

does some programming for work

oh wait no, I'm hungry.

fuck programming goes to lunch

Cerberus

@GeorgePompidou I absolutely will not believe that. Linux has a far smaller community, and those who want to program something are far more often geeks than on Windows, people who know other languages. And there is only 1 programme like Autohotkey on Windows, which is Autohotkey. There are no equivalents for Windows. So what are the chances that there is one for Linux? And I have read about it, and there appears to be none. Hence IronAHK.

@terdon I could not as easily pick up some other language.

terdon

5:54 PM

@Cerberus There is one, he linked to it. AHK is open source and someone has already ported it.

@Cerberus No but once again, I am not talking about languages. Yes, some of the stuff that AHK does would need a scripting language but a hell of a lot of others (hotkeys, inserting text etc) do not. You can set the latter up with simple menus.

Cerberus

@terdon No. IronAHK is in development, it is far from complete. Many things do not work yet.

@terdon I think you misunderstand how I use Autohotkey.

Hotkeys and inserting text is extremely minor.

There are 1000 programmes that can do that.

user116848

Hello! Cerberus and terdon

Cerberus

Hello!

terdon

@Cerberus Never mind. I don't know why you're getting so defensive about this. All I meant is that having read some of the info on their webpage, a lot of what they offer can be done very easily on linux. Others need scripting, yes. Anyway, you are welcome to use any OS you feel like using, we're just talking here.

Hey @Arrowfar

Cerberus

>
michaelbeijer
I am currently considering a switch from Windows to Linux, but the main thing I will miss is AHK. So I'd also like to know if the IronAHK project is really dead? I vaguely remember reading somewhere that it had come back to life, but I just went to look at the GitHub site and everything looks like it is 3 years old.

Does anyone here know of anything on Linux that is as powerful and as easy to use as AHK?
Michael

#3 - Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:03 PM
girlgamer

Moderators
2460 posts

AutoKey

AutoKey is a text expansion/replacement utility for Linux and X11. It is heavily inspired by the commercial Windows software 'PhraseExpress'. It receives keyboard events using one of several methods and uses X events to drive the expansions. AutoKey can be used to replace abbreviations with full phrases, and also to correct spelling mistakes and other typographical errors. AutoKey is known to operate under both the GNOME and KDE desktop environments. == References == == See also == AutoHotkey AutoIt Automator (for Macintosh) Bookmarklet iMacros for Firefox Xnee, a program that can be u...

Nothing like Autohotkey.

@terdon What I disagree with is that there is anything as simple to use and as full-fledged in what it can do as Autohotkey on Linux. I really don't understand why you would claim otherwise: there is consensus about this among those who know this stuff.

And that is just 1 programme. I have many more that prevent me from switching to Linux, even though I really like Linux in theory.

terdon

6:03 PM

@Cerberus I don't claim that. What I claim is that anything you can do with it, I can find a way to do on *nix. It will very likely not be as simple though. On OSX though, apparently the applescript language is very similar. It is a faux language designed for non-programmers.

Cerberus

Well, that is exactly my point. You can do anything, but it's not as simple.

I do not believe at all that Applescript can do what Autohotkey can.

Why would you think so?

Look at this list and compare it with the list for Apple Script: rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:AutoHotkey

terdon

@Cerberus I really don't want to argue about this. You have no idea what applescript can do, I have no idea what AHK can do (nor applescript really for that matter). I'm sure AHK is great.

Cerberus

> Python: 769 pages/tasks
> Autohotkey: 576
> Applescript: 64

@terdon I agree. But then just don't say a true equivalent exists.

terdon

@Cerberus Dammit, I didn't!

Cerberus

I wasn't just saying that, it's what everyone on the Internet says.

terdon

6:11 PM

31 mins ago, by terdon

@Cerberus Oh, that's not what I meant. I meant that the *nix desktops are so customizable, there is no need for something like Autohotkey.

Cerberus

@terdon Then it was George.

And that statement, again, misrepresents what I use Autohotkey for.

terdon

I never said anything about there being a direct equivalent. Just that there seemed to be a clone that George found.

@Cerberus Okay.

Cerberus

Which has been dead in a partially developed state for 3 years.

Look, everyone on the Internet is waiting for a Linux equivalent! It would be wonderful if one existed!

And I'm sure some day, there will.

And some day, we will all switch to Linux. Governments in Europe and Asia have already begun.

Which is great.

I am all for making Linux compulsory for government agencies wherever it is at all practical.

user116848

7:07 PM

@KitFox Hi! I liked your previous fox pic more :)

KitFox

The fluffy tail one? I'll probably wear it again sometime.

user116848

haha

user116848

It's a sleeping fox I guess, right?

user116848

How was your meeting? Was it SE meeting?

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: An eighth and a sixteenth of pot Probably is not a lot But it got us quite stoned So nobody...

posted on August 07, 2014 by sgdi

An eighth and a sixteenth of pot Probably is not a lot But it got us quite stoned So nobody moaned And now we’re so chilled out and hot

George Pompidou

7:12 PM

things I've learned today: Cerberus loves Autohotkey.

never get between a Cerberus and his Autohotkey.

I'm going to try saying hi to KitFox because with so many people doing it every five minutes there must be some hidden benefit

@KitFox hi.

I am not seeing what the big deal is.

user116848

lol

user116848

I didn't notice she gets so many Hi's :)

nosmoking

@KitFox hi

George Pompidou

it's pretty insane chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=kitfox+hi&room=95

you have to search for hello too and other alternatives.

KitFox

@Arrowfar Not SE. And it was stupid and pointless.

@GeorgePompidou Hi.

@nosmoking Hi.

George Pompidou

7:17 PM

why do so many people say hi to you so much?

nosmoking

Heil

user116848

May be because she has a nice name :)

nosmoking

@GeorgePompidou it marks a start of communication

KitFox

May 28 '13 at 14:27, by KitFox

OK, well, I'll sum it up. Blahblahblah Kit is teh awesum.

George Pompidou

sure, but you didn't say hi to me. and we are talking.

you also didn't say hi to anyone else.

nosmoking

7:19 PM

@Arrowfar Who KixFot?

user116848

Yes

KitFox

I don't think people say hi to me particularly frequently.

George Pompidou

maybe it's just me. I rarely see hi's targeted to other people in this room though.

KitFox

Sep 16 '12 at 1:19, by Robusto

@KitFox It is teh awesum.

nosmoking

I do since I've seen you're a girl, I'm a gentleman

George Pompidou

7:20 PM

that's if the myth of girls existing on the internet is true, of course.

nosmoking

gallantry

George Pompidou

ever since I quit smoking I also cannot open bottles anymore.

because I opened bottles with my lighter.

nosmoking

so you get a double positive effect

no alcohol, no smoke

George Pompidou

how on earth is it positive that I cannot open bott

oh

well, not necessarily alcohol

right now I cannot open a Coca Cola bottle.

this is most frequent.

KitFox

@nosmoking I'm not a girl, and you're not a gentleman.

nosmoking

7:22 PM

get some non-glass bottles

George Pompidou

I'm a violentman

I beat up people n things

nosmoking

@KitFox ouch, ok

George Pompidou

cause testosterone

nosmoking

I'm not horny in my schizo state

George Pompidou

why, last night I beat up someone because I wanted to show that this is my territory and I can mate with the females here and not him.

I also frequent parties and yell very loud for the same effect.

mate mate mate

produces much offspring and beats up more people

nosmoking

7:24 PM

I've found the only positive effect of smoking: get rid of mosquitos

George Pompidou

hm…

nosmoking

ok, let's turn down my schizo

KitFox

kills competing, inferior offspring of loud obnoxious male

Cerberus

@GeorgePompidou Just don't claim that it can easily be replaced on Linux, because it cannot. There is consensus among those who know it.

Then you'll be fine.

nosmoking

those who know it are the intersection between nerds and geeks

George Pompidou

7:30 PM

backs off quietly from the wild Cerberus and runs to the store to get Cerberus spray

KitFox

Smoking protects against Parkinson's disease.

George Pompidou

who's Parkinson and how can one own a disease?

and what disease is it?

KitFox

Please tell me you are joking.

George Pompidou

you are joking.

why would you want me to tell you that, though?

nosmoking

@KitFox ok, that's another far-fetched positive effect

Jasper Loy

7:35 PM

I have a cough, a cold and a sore throat.

Cerberus

@GeorgePompidou You're just grumpy because you lost...

terdon

@Cerberus Nobody lost. We just carefully backed away of the drooling, snapping, and above all, numerous jaws.

Jasper Loy

@AndrewLeach Your answer to the how we make a car question seems incomplete because both can be used as titles for example. The asker did not say it is a complete sentence.

George Pompidou

it's okay, pets Cerberus your Autohotkey is safe.

:D

Andrew Leach

@JasperLoy You're welcome to add an answer. Or, if there is a duplicate on ELU with a better answer, to point to that.

George Pompidou

7:42 PM

@Cerberus you are right. but I did not lose. I maintain that everything can also be done on Linux. just in a different way. you are correct in saying that there's nothing exactly like Autohotkey on linux. but then there's nothing exactly like anything on any other platform.

so it's a moot point.

Andrew Leach

@JasperLoy Or, indeed, to edit a question mark or two into the question, which is probably what the OP meant.

George Pompidou

there's nothing exactly like Notepad on Linux.

sure. but there's vim, gEdit, sublime text, and a trillion others.

Jasper Loy

@AndrewLeach Ah, but that risks changing the asker's intention.

George Pompidou

just none exactly like Notepad because Notepad for Windows is just that.

Cerberus

@terdon You wouldn't be saying that unless you were admitting I was right...

George Pompidou

7:43 PM

a different platform implies different code to begin with.

Andrew Leach

@JasperLoy Well, my answer is not "Not an answer". Feel free to add another expanding on it.

Cerberus

@GeorgePompidou The "way" is essential. Of course anything can be done on Linux, but how is that relevant? I could not as easily learn how to do it as I could with Autohotkey.

George Pompidou

sure. but that's pointless to say.

if I learn to ride a skateboard as a kid and not a bike, I could not easily learn to ride a bike when I'm 40.

Cerberus

@GeorgePompidou You are trying to evade the real issue, which is that there is nothing for Linux that is both as simple to learn and as powerful as Autohotkey on Linux. It is one or the other, but not both.

George Pompidou

it applies to everything.

Cerberus

7:45 PM

No.

I was older when I started using Autohotkey.

nosmoking

@JasperLoy get some honey

Cerberus

It's not just about being used to x instead of y.

George Pompidou

> there is nothing for Linux that is both as simple to learn and as powerful as Autohotkey on Linux.

you cannot prove this.

Cerberus

There is consensus.

George Pompidou

okay.

Cerberus

7:45 PM

I do not need to prove it.

George Pompidou

I give you that.

this is true.

but I disagree with the consensus. I think there exists such a thing that we have not discovered.

Cerberus

And I think it is strange that you and Terdon would claim that there is something like it, even though you do not know this.

George Pompidou

I guess you could say I have faith in Linux.

even more strange that people believe in god.

but they still do

on a massive scale.

:D

Cerberus

If the Internet at large has failed to discover it, and if there is only 1 thing like it on Windows, then what are the chances of you or me discovering it?

Linux may be right for you but not for me.

George Pompidou

not very big.

I know!

Cerberus

7:47 PM

And it's not Linux's fault that it happens to have more experienced users and a smaller user base.

George Pompidou

we're on the same side here man.

except for having faith that something exists that we have not found through googling.

Cerberus

The fact that Window is huge and has stupid users made it a likely place for something like Autohotkey to emerge.