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7:11 PM
@FaheemMitha I only use postgres, never mysql
I have a question which is probably too simple for the main page, so I thought I'd ask here
I'm creating a HTML document in Kate which is rather long, and it starts bugging me that it doesn't support HTML5
especially that I can't "close" sections I'm not currently editing the way I can close divs
@rumtscho IMO Kate is a text editor
So, how do I find out if there is a way to get this support?
@Braiam It has syntax highlighting for HTML
and can hide the contents of a full tag.
Only it doesn't recognize the newer HTML 5 tags
It is possible that it is a somewhat old version, I am on Debian stable
@Braiam It is just a text editor but it is also the editing engine used by Kdevelop and you can add plugins to accomplish quite a bit of that functionality. Still, emacs or vim is the way to go :)
But I searched around in the hope to find a list of "newly added features" in Kate, to see if it has been added in the meantime, and couldn't find anything
in the KDE bug tracker, there are zero bugs found for the product "Kate" - which is strange, I know of at least one (unrelated here)
7:15 PM
@rumtscho you are probably better off asking that on the site. None of use use Kate (we're heavily biased toward the giants of emacs and vim) in chat that I'm aware of.
and I just wonder why I can't find a bug tracking or project management tool which contains new and planned features for each revision. I must be searching in a wrong way.
@casey OK, you don't think it will be shut down with a "RTFM" attitude?
I know it must be written down somewhere, I just can't find the documentation.
@rumtscho we're a friendly bunch. As long as it meets the site standard for posting, it should be fine. As kate runs on linux/unix it is on-topic.
I found strange characters showing up on two sites. Is there someplace I should report this besides mentioning it in here in chat? The first place I found them is here in the link in Gilles' comment: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/138374/… The second is here in the accepted answer: stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/…
@slm yep, that's true
If you are seeing something strange @TimothyMartin it might be because you sought out the pony and tried to parse XML with regex.
7:23 PM
@FaheemMitha @Patrick #MariaDB
it is a common side effect
A: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

bobinceYou can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool th...

@rumtscho nope, not found bugs.kde.org/… and there's nothing in the git log either
the xml file for the syntax doesn't make references either to html5 projects.kde.org/projects/kde/applications/kate/repository/…
Thanks everybody for your suggestions
@casey But they told me it was a unicorn.
7:27 PM
@Braiam That's interesting, I didn't know that there is such a file. I found the git project, but didn't think of looking into it, because I don't know C or C++.
Anyway, I posted on the main site. I am maybe a bit too cautious after having seen very hostile attitude against beginner questions on some of the larger sites on the network.
So, thanks for the reassurance that it is fine as a question :)
Well here anyway, we're not so much hostile towards beginner questions, as we are towards questions which show no effort for the most basic of things. If you've proven that you've tried to solve the issue on your own, you'll be fine :-)
@Patrick I said that I searched for info, but of course there is always the possibility that I chose very dumb search terms and missed it totally. Especially unpleasant if it is in a place where I "should" have known to look.
Q: How to turn a vector into a matrix in R?

rumtschoI have a vector with 49 numeric values. I want to have a 7x7 numeric matrix instead. Is there some sort of convenient automatic conversion statement I can use, or do I have to do 7 separate column assignments of the correct vector subsets to a new matrix? I hope that there is something like the...

See for example this one. It has 4k views in the meantime, but it also has a bunch of downvotes.
/me doesn't have enough rep on SO to see downvotes
@mikeserv that's the proper way...
@derobert that's true
@Patrick how much do you have?
@strugee a little shy of 500
7:34 PM
@rumtscho I don't think we count as "one of the larger sites"...
@Patrick ah.
@strugee I know. But I never know which of the small ones follow the lead of the large ones and which have a different culture.
@rumtscho that's true
we're kind of weird
@rumtscho I can confirm that "section" tags do not fold (by default at least) on kate 3.13.2
@rumtscho well, I asked just yesterday a question where I got a "RTFD" answer and yet no downvotes :P
we have the friendliest site I've ever seen on SE but also we have some of the highest standards for what constitutes "minimal effort"
7:35 PM
which is a rather new version but not the newest
i think anywy
@strugee In some aspects it is better to be "weird" than "SO-like" :)
@rumtscho oh, absolutely! that's why I don't care about Stack Overflow and only have 162 rep there
and 100 of that is for the new site bonus!
@strugee Hmm, I thought Tex had the highest "minimal effort" standard. They always want you to post a full, compilable document with the problem.
@rumtscho code review might have a higher standard
Which is not a bad thing by itself, because I have found a solution for my own problem quite a few times during the process of creating a document which exhibits the isolated problem and nothing else.
7:37 PM
@rumtscho possibly, I don't frequent TeX - LaTeX.
although when we do sed/awk/cut/etc. questions we require desired input and desired output
@rumtscho They're pretty tolerant/friendly. The MWE is just necessity. Otherwise they can't debug it.
@FaheemMitha Yes, I agree, they are friendly.
I don't know you guys but being friendly isn't totally opposite to maintaining a high standard
@Braiam I agree
It's curious that a site built on something as esoteric as TeX is so successful.
7:39 PM
closing and downvoting isn't rude nor it's meant to be rude if your questions can't be answered
I think we manage both
@Braiam True.
@FaheemMitha A bit ironic that you are saying that on the Unix site :P
@rumtscho I've got a fix incoming for you
But I think that a large part of the TeX site success is not just how much people need to work with it, but also how easy/hard it is to use it without asking somebody.
7:42 PM
@FaheemMitha TeX may be esoteric, but it is legendary.
TeX has many, many strong sides. Intuitiveness is not one of them. In fact, this is a reason why I am creating this document in HTML. (The one I started my question about). I have no intention to put it online. I just need a nicely formatted document, with some "macros", and finish it quickly. It is much quicker to do it in HTML and format with CSS, using jQuery for the repeated parts, than to work with TeX.
@rumtscho Unix isn't as esoteric as TeX, imo.
Of course, opinions vary.
@strugee In the sense of Barney Stinson, I presume? :-)
@FaheemMitha If you ask the average person on the street if they use Unix and if they use LaTeX, the probability for both will be well under 1%, I think.
@FaheemMitha I wasn't thinking of that at the time, but I'll take it!
It may be that there are 10 times as many users of Unix than of LaTeX, or even 100 times more, but in absolute terms, they are esoteric software.
7:46 PM
@rumtscho Ah, yes, but the probability of one would be smaller than the other!
@strugee I just hope you're not lactose intolerant.
@rumtscho Dunno about relative ratios.
There are specialist groups which use both pretty intensively. Most sysadmins will have used Unix at some point in time, and quite a few use it all the time. Most STEM academic authors will have used LaTeX at some point in time, and quite a few use it all the time. Both have their niches, but both are a niche, if you look at it globally.
@FaheemMitha indeed :P
@rumtscho Sure. No argument here.
@rumtscho It seems you are a TeX fan. Been using it long?
Man, those C++ people are freaks. Figures.
@FaheemMitha I started 5 years ago, but do it only sporadically
I use it when either 1) quality is important, speed not so much, or 2) speed is important, but there is not much special formatting involved, just stuff like a section hierarchy.
@casey thank you for your answer. I was thinking on trying something on the lines of it since I saw the file, but I wasn't sure that the file is available somewhere on my filesystem, as opposed as being used before compilation only, and besides I got sidetracked by chat.
Q: "View Vote totals" without 1000 rep

Rob W Screenshot About The vote counts are a great tool to determine whether an answer is disputed or not. Unfortunately, not many of us have enough time to join all Stack Exchange websites and get 1000 reputation. This script unlocks the "View Vote counts" feature for those who are not logge...

7:56 PM
@terdon Without looking at what said script does, I'm betting it's just using the SE API. Probably just fetches the question history, including upvotes/downvotes.
@Patrick Perhaps. But the result is that you simply click on the vote count on any site and see the U/D votes. Irrespective of your rep. Works like a charm.
@terdon I thought this was supposed to be a rep perk.
@terdon Oh, I agree, nifty little trick. Doesn't bother me though. I don't have any need to know :-)
More people than usual here today...
@FaheemMitha it is a perk, but my guess is that its too-much of a server side performance hit to actually check if you qualify for the perk.
7:58 PM
It appears the robot has moved in from #TheFryingPan.
@FaheemMitha It is, but that lets you get around it. I find it useful very often.
I've always found it annoying. Visit another site in the network, suddenly random features don't work.
view deleted questions is another one...
@rumtscho I guess I'm a TeX fan too. Been using it since 1996. But learned much of what I know in recent years hanging out on tex.sx.
@rumtscho You've got a high rep on SA. What are your views on pork? I've been asking people for recipes.
@FaheemMitha I don't even know that much about it. I just don't have the time to learn everything I use in depth.
@rumtscho Me neither.
Are you a student?
8:05 PM
Just like I don't know much about Linux. I've been using it somewhat longer than TeX, maybe 6 and a half years. I am still learning the most basic stuff about it.
For example, just now, @casey 's suggestion to use locate was a revelation for me. I didn't know the command existed, even know I've needed such a command frequently.
@rumtscho Yes, locate is handy. It does need to be configured properly, though.
@FaheemMitha most distros take care of configuring it though
@rumtscho I probably know more about Unix than TeX. I think the former is in some ways more accessible, and more generally useful.
@casey Sure, but you might want it to search/index some new stuff. I don't think I've ever bothered to mess with it though.
TeX programming takes some getting used to, and I've never taken the time.
@FaheemMitha For me, pork is a convenience meat. When I need a quick dinner, I shallow fry a piece of boneless pork in the pan, and cook a bag of frozen pre-seasoned vegetables as the side dish. So, when I have the time to dedicate to a good recipe, I try it with some other meat.
@casey did you get a chance to look at that AUCTeX question? BTW, it is disheartening to know that the two most active people in AUCTeX development (by far) are both students. I've chatted with both of them at different times. I thought they were beginning developers. Turns out they are the only developers. :-(
@rumtscho ok
8:10 PM
@rumtscho I've been using Linux at work and at home for ~15 years and I still come across basic commands I didn't know. You get used to it.
Actually, I don't know if they are students, but it seems likely.
@casey by the way, thanks a lot for that solution! I already thought that this might be a good idea, but would have needed a lot more effort to pull it off by myself. I will wait a bit to give you the upvote, just to see if somebody will have a second suggestion - sometimes question don't get views at all if they already have an accepted answer. I still plan to give you the upvote, because you were first.
@rumtscho You don't have to ration upvotes. Accepts, yes.
Because you can only give one.
@FaheemMitha argh, did I write upvote?
@rumtscho :-)
8:12 PM
I meant the accept. I know how the system functions. My concentration seems to be slowly floating away, it is late here and I had a long day.
As for the upvote, I already gave it.
Does anyone disagree with this?
Q: What is the intended difference between the 'wifi' and 'wireless' tags? Should they be merged?

FlimzyI just asked a question which I tagged with wifi, and was then referred to a possible duplicate which is tagged with wireless. My first thought was that wireless is probably about all forms of wireless technology, including wifi, bluetooth, proprietary wireless USB devices, etc, but the tag wiki...

Which reminds me that I "had" a long day is not entirely correct, I still have to go back to my document and invest 1.5 hours in it. See you later.
@terdon Synonyms could be better - I think wifi is an americanism
@rumtscho Hardly! It's used very commonly in at least France, Spain and Greece. I do seem to recall that wireless was the norm in the UK but I lived there more than a decade ago.
@terdon Kinda. I think wireless is more general, and can ecompass things like bluetooth. Making it a synonym of wifi would kill that
@Patrick That's what the OP assumed. In that case, we should change the tag wikis.
And probably retag the 200 or 300 questions tagged with each. Sigh
8:17 PM
Aye. I think the wiki for both kinda sucks :-/
@terdon Here in Germany, everybody says WLAN, as a short form of "wireless LAN". Not even technically correct in all cases, but still a word which Germans see as a foreign addition to the language and expect English speakers to understand (which leads to comical situations). I think "wireless" will be easier to understand or find for a German than Wifi.
Although the average user probably doesn't know that WLAN stands for "wireless lan".
@rumtscho That's the point of a synonym though. Both and would work but they'd point to the same master tag.
I would not say wlan is synonymous with wifi. I can have a wireless lan over bluetooth, and bluetooth is not wifi
Exactly. You can also have wifi but no WLAN as such.
@terdon Yes, that's what I meant. I'm not sure if a merge automatically creates a synonym, but if it doesn't, my point is that maybe you should create one manually in addition to the merge.
8:19 PM
@terdon you can?
@rumtscho Ah, no, I was thinking about synonyms. Don't know if tags can be merged as such or what that would mean (I've only been blue since yesterday).
I've always understood "wifi" to be 802.11, and 802.11 is exclusively networking
If terdon decides to do something, he can :P
@Patrick technically that's true, but only a tiny fraction of the people who use the word know that. So, for everyday purposes, you can't rely on the distinction.
@Ramesh Which is precisely why he is reluctant to do so without agreement :)
8:21 PM
@FaheemMitha I've been trying to think of something besides a pork roast which is just pork, standing proud as pork... I guess pork chops.
@Patrick Yes, that's how I understand it too.
@terdon the synonym only applies to new posts. The merge button on the synonym page will retag all existing questions to the master.
@casey Ah! I see, thanks.
@Patrick Is having the broader tag useful? There are certainly experts in wireless (e.g., RF engineers) but that's not on-topic here.
@terdon I've been blue for much longer, but synonyms are so rare (at least for us) that I forgot what all the possibilities are. Maybe there wasn't a merge separate from synonym making.
@terdon And congratulations on your new position!
8:23 PM
@derobert It could be, though I would say the situations are very rare.
@terdon no problem. There are only a million or so other new things you've been exposed to since yesterday.
Pretty much yeah :)
And thanks @rumtscho :)
I mean, configuration-wise, Bluetooth is entirely different than 802.11.
So is infrared (also wireless, though not what one thinks of...)
Is it possible for du command to consume memory size in Gigs?
But would we want an overall tag? Why not just tag as bluetooth? Can one be an expert in all types of wireless communication? What do they have in common apart from a lack of cables?
8:25 PM
@slm Well, being in the side pane with 5 stars, it's certainly not now! :-P
@Ramesh Maybe with enough recursion, if you have a directory structure absurdly deep.
@Ramesh Consume? You mean show?
@derobert Linux does support a lot of wireless protocols that aren't 802.11 though not many are in popular use aside from Bluetooth.
@terdon, no. I ran a du command to check the disk usage. It's going on for a while. I used top command to check what is going on and top reports du has used 1.2G so far in the virtual memory.
@casey Yep. Like amateur radio! But again, completely different configuration.
8:26 PM
So I was wondering how could it use that much.
But a broader tag might be useful if you had a Q about setting up a p2p link over 900mhz or something.
@Ramesh lsof -p $(pidof du) ... see if its recursed somewhere obscenely deep. Or caught itself in an infinite loop.
@casey The other problem is that there are already ~300 questions tagged all of which at a cursory glance seem to be about WiFi networks.
@casey You could just tag that networking. It'd be a constant fight to keep a for RF protocol-agnostic questions.
One solution would be to merge the two and create a new or something for the non-WiFi Qs.
8:28 PM
@terdon indeed, more precise tags are better, as long you are certain that your users know which one they have in front of them
and in this case, I think everybody who knows enough to ask also knows whether he is working with 802.11 or bluetooth
I suggest not worrying about it until said hypothetical question comes up. Could always create it then.
In which case I would probably merge wifi and wireless. It's silly to have both tags used in basically the same way.
the only time you want a more generic tag is for when your users wouldn't know which of the specific ones they need, and risk getting the wrong tag on the question.
@derobert @terdon yes, in practice its a losing battle. Even with a good tag wiki, most people aren't reading those before tagging.
@rumtscho Also for blanket terms. For example, "bash".
Oh, damn. Have to go be sociable. I'll be back later.
8:31 PM
@terdon OK, I was just thinking that this "only" word up there is a bad formulation. Good catch.
@slm I don't think you can access that without enough point on ebooks
naw, site evaluation is open to everyone.
@derobert I should probably visit the local pork shop to see what they actually have available.
8:46 PM
@FaheemMitha Loin and chops are pretty common here. Either of those take well to pork as just pork.
Ribs are very popular, but they're almost always heavily seasoned. Same with shoulder (aka Boston butt)
@casey @terdon and anyone else interested: remember we have ethernet/networking tags, which are used in a hardware/firmware vs software fashion. My take in this one is to rename wireless to wifi and leave it at that
@derobert Sure, but this is India. So who the hell knows what is available? :-)
Pork chops actually sound pretty nice.
Maybe with potatoes.
Though we're not big meat eaters.
@FaheemMitha that statement is not exclusive to india, you know?
@Braiam What statement?
@FaheemMitha Chops do go with potatoes (well, almost any chunk o' meat does)
8:51 PM
> Sure, but this is X. So who the hell knows what is available? :-)
@Braiam Sure, never said it was.
My point was that India is a lunatic asylum, where in my experience on cannot take the simplest thing for granted.
No doubt there are other lunatic asylums.
@strugee maybe - but in this case the op responded to a comment of mine and asked me please to post it as an answer so that op could accept it. I considered it thoughtful.
@terdon since you are so nifty about the shinnies, can you merge kernel-drivers into drivers as expressed here and tag it status-completed, that's the only thing left to do but retagging ~150 questions isn't my thing right now ;)
9:10 PM
@mikeserv ah.
@Seth - I remembered. playing silly buggers with tit-for-tat downvoting is what he called it. The man is a hypocrite.
@Seth - In response I pointed out that I often upvoted posts of his own regardless of my personal opinion of him, and asked him how it was then that even though he acknowledged this as valid why had it only ever received a downvote? He did not reply, and the comments were all deleted.
wow, @derobert, the command lsof -p $(pidof du) itself is stuck. It's getting executed forever.
@Ramesh dang. What about ls -l /proc/$(pidof du)/fd ?
do lsof -p $$ <<LSOF\n$(lsof -p $(pidof du)\nLSOF to find out why.
9:24 PM
@mikeserv lol, not strace ? :-P
@derobert, it gives me some output. I am not able to debug it. Can I paste it over here?
@Ramesh if its not too long. Otherwise, pastebin.
@derobert, this is the output.
root@idir-server4:/media/backup# ls -l /proc/$(pidof du)/fd
total 0
lrwx------ 1 root root 64 2014-06-25 16:07 0 -> /dev/pts/0
lrwx------ 1 root root 64 2014-06-25 16:07 1 -> /dev/pts/0
lrwx------ 1 root root 64 2014-06-25 16:07 2 -> /dev/pts/0
lr-x------ 1 root root 64 2014-06-25 16:07 4 -> /mounts/idir-server4/proj/factmonitoring/src
lr-x------ 1 root root 64 2014-06-25 16:07 5 -> /mounts/idir-server4/proj/factmonitoring
lr-x------ 1 root root 64 2014-06-25 16:07 6 -> /mounts/idir-server4/proj/factmonitoring/src/file_based
@derobert - not as fun
Sounds like its working on /mounts/idir-server4/proj/factmonitoring/src/file_based/revised_bottom_up ... and that doesn't explain the memory use. Unless maybe that directory has something weird about it, like say having a million files. Even then, not sure why it'd use a ton of memory.
9:27 PM
@derobert, exactly this directory was the one which caused me to run out of inodes.
Huh, I wonder if du for some reason attempts to read the entire directory at once.
Anyway, that probably means its working.
mv whatever you need out of it and delete the directory
@mikeserv, I will not be even able to get into this directory.
cd will surely work. That doesn't try to read its contents. ls may take a long while.
I mean I would not be able to tell if it has some valid data or invalid data unless I can get inside it.
even ls - l | head -n1 is taking such a long time.
9:31 PM
tr ls -f | head -n1
@derobert, it gives me a single dot as output.
Good, it ran. You can try ls -f | less
is it on the root filesystem? Can you mount --bind it elsewhere?
@derobert, the command works. Can I pipe wc to end of it to count the total files?
9:34 PM
Holy shit. ls -f | wc -l output is 474072
Is it normal?
@mikeserv, it is on a separate partition.
Ah. That's not as bad as I expected. When I said a million files, I wasn't exaggerating... You only have half a million.
Well, I guess you can see what those files are with ls -f, so you can tell if the directory is a good candidate for rm -Rf
@derobert, this is the output of just one folder. I have some 10 more folders with it. Can I do some recursive in ls -f command?
(which will take forever, BTW)
may be, ls -fr will work?
yes, I think -R will work. Will probably be slower, though, as it has to stat everything.
You can also just give ls all the folders as args
9:45 PM
Bo, is any one there?
Re the wifi vs. wireless tags.... My thought is that 'wireless' as a "general" tag is pretty worthless. If your question is about bluetooth, use a bluetooth tag. If it's about wireless usb, use a usb (or wireless-usb) tag.
If we don't want wireless to be a synonym of wifi, perhaps we could blacklist wireless as a worhtless tag?
Is it possible use system ram as video memory, and if so how do I do it?
I have a good computer but when it comes to the video card it only have 24 mb of ram
I can't change it because it is hardwire onto the motherboard.
Andrew: With some video chipsets, yes. But it's not something you can just automatically do... Some cheaper video chipsets only use system RAM, and how much is controlled in the BIOS (if it's controllable). (or at least this is how it works according to my knowledge which is now several years old)
@Flimzy I have intel(r) hd graphics 3000
@Flimzy With intel(r) mobile express chipset
9:50 PM
@mikeserv, thanks. Let me run this and check if it gives me something.
I am anyways gonna let the users know that in its current state the folder is pretty much unusable.
Even if I backup and restore there is nothing that can be done inside this folder.
@Flimzy I'd rather have be made a synonym of . I mean having as the master.
@terdon: That seems fine to me, if we choose the synonym route. I was trying to appeal to those who think they shouldn't be synonyms.
@terdon NO, wifi is wireless internet... while wireless means something runs without wires like a wireless hardset.
IOW, I think expecting people to use 'wireless' in a broad sense is both unrealistic (most people think of it as synonymous with wifi, even though it isn't really), and worthless (any question with a 'general' wireless tag ought to have a specific one--such as wifi, bluetooth, etc)
@andrew: No, wifi is not wireless internet.
@Andrew Please read the transcript.
9:53 PM
@andrew: Wifi is a specific set of wireless protocols, which may or may not be used in conjunction with Internet.
Than I did I thought about it, it was wireless internet
And if they do get merged, I would say that wireless should not be the main one
If they get merged, it seems to me that wifi should be the main one, so that someone doens't accidentally tag a bluetooth question as 'wireless'
The more accurate one should be the main one. everything else is a synonym
@Patrick agree
9:54 PM
I see two arguments: Treat wireless as a colloquial synonym of wifi, which is the case. Or treat them both technically accurately, and blacklist 'wireless'.
But I'm barely a contributor here, so my opinion counts little :)
@Flimzy Can I do it?
Andrew: Use system RAM? I have no idea. It depends on your chipset. I'm not going to do your research for you.
@Andrew - If it only has 24mb video mem you are using system ram asvideo ram.
I mean 32 mb.
IF I said 24 Than i meant to put 32MB.
@Flimzy is common in UL that we prefer the technical stance, that's why we have separated tags for console, shell, command line and terminal ;)
9:56 PM
Unless, of course, it's more than a decade old and by good you mean as a paperweight.
Either case is the same.
OK, I'm beginning to lean towards making wireless point to wifi and merging the tags.
Do y'all agree?
@terdon - no. widi, bluetooth, many others are wireless
I'm in favor of the technical stance. And I agree (for what my opinion matters) with @terdon
The "technical stance" is to keep them separate, right?
@mikeserv: What is the use case for tagging a bluetooth question with instead of ?
9:58 PM
@mikeserv yes but that's not how the tag is used. At the moment, most (all?) things tagged as wireless refer to wifi.
I think it should be opposite.
I agree with @mikeserv here, wireless covers wifi, wifi doesn't cover wireless.
I don't know, but many get both.
@mikeserv Which is what flimsy's meta post is about.
Patrick: IMHO, as a general tag is worthless, because it's never meaningful to tag something as both and or both and

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