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goldilocks
goldilocks
8:00 PM
@Ramesh It doesn't matter who wins now:
Coup d'état
A coup d'état (; ; plural: coups d'état ), also known as a coup, a putsch, or an overthrow, is the sudden and illegal seizure of a government,[http://books.google.ca/books?id=R-A8AQAAIAAJ&q=But+even+if+the+most+laudatory+of+motivations+be+assumed,+the+fact+remains+that+the+coup+d'etat+is+a+deliberately+illegal+act+of+the+gravest+kind+and+strikes+at+the+highest+level+of+law+and+order+in+society&dq=But+even+if+the+most+laudatory+of+motivations+be+assumed,+the+fact+remains+that+the+coup+d'etat+is+a+deliberately+illegal+act+of+the+gravest+kind+and+strikes+at+the+highest+level+of+law+and+or...
 
Michael Mrozek
Michael Mrozek
Election results: Winners are terdon and slm.
4
 
goldilocks
goldilocks
I thought I really had a chance this time.
 
Braiam
Braiam
now lets drown 'em both in pings
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
claps
Yaaaaay!
 
goldilocks
goldilocks
@Braiam Our zombie bot net awaits your command.
 
terdon
terdon
8:06 PM
WHOWHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :)
Yay, I'm blue!
 
derobert
derobert
@terdon I see a diamond after your name now
 
terdon
terdon
@slm well done mate :)
 
Braiam
Braiam
now I'm ready to stalk you both if your amount of answers dingle >:)
 
Seth
Seth
STALKER!
 
Michael Mrozek
Michael Mrozek
And yet neither of them has accepted the mod agreement yet. Suspicious, if you ask me
 
casey
casey
8:12 PM
very suspicious
 
Braiam
Braiam
suspicious overload
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
Congrats @slm @terdon.
 
Braiam
Braiam
did meta.ul went ro?
 
polym
polym
Nice @slm @terdon :D
 
terdon
terdon
@MichaelMrozek I wanted to at least skim the thing first!
 
Michael Mrozek
Michael Mrozek
8:14 PM
I'm now losing in all stats except "flags handled". I'm going to hold onto that one for a day or two
 
Seth
Seth
You mean.. You didn't read it beforehand? :O
 
goldilocks
goldilocks
@Braiam It's because of all the betting.
 
Braiam
Braiam
btw @Shog9, the featured post doesn't appear in the CB
 
terdon
terdon
@Seth Not the entire thing no. I knew the gist of it.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@Braiam you are impatient
 
Seth
Seth
8:16 PM
@terdon ;)
 
Braiam
Braiam
starts bitting nails to calm down
 
derobert
derobert
@MichaelMrozek Nah, you'll have that one for a while. @slm probably can't raise flags for himself to handle.
 
Michael Mrozek
Michael Mrozek
@derobert That actually works fine
 
derobert
derobert
LOL, well, then watch out....
 
Michael Mrozek
Michael Mrozek
@terdon You shouldn't feel bad that it's been 4 minutes and this flag still isn't handled
At 5 minutes you should start feeling bad though
 
Braiam
Braiam
8:26 PM
resist the urge of pinging Shog again
 
terdon
terdon
@MichaelMrozek Wha? Whe? There are no flags yet dammit!
Are there?
 
Michael Mrozek
Michael Mrozek
@terdon There is on meta. You've even looked at it
 
terdon
terdon
I'm on it, I'm on it!
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@slm @terdon I think it is time to become drunk with power.
 
terdon
terdon
Heh.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
8:28 PM
@MichaelMrozek hazing the newbies?
 
terdon
terdon
He is!
 
Michael Mrozek
Michael Mrozek
Can't let anything threaten our glowing...7 hour flag handling time. Wow that's sad
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@derobert Hope you don't feel bad about losing. You were a worthy candidate.
 
goldilocks
goldilocks
@FaheemMitha Ditto.
 
terdon
terdon
Yeah, honestly I'd have been happy with anyone but the BSD guy. Still glad it's me though.
@goldilocks Hey, you had the dubious honor of being the first flag I dealt with. Thanks :)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
8:31 PM
@terdon What do you have against BSD? :-)
 
goldilocks
goldilocks
@terdon Seriously?
:P
 
terdon
terdon
@goldilocks Yeah, your flag, not one about you.
 
Michael Mrozek
Michael Mrozek
@FaheemMitha For one thing, he uses too many keystrokes to save and quit emacs
3
 
goldilocks
goldilocks
@terdon I hope you handled it well.
 
terdon
terdon
@goldilocks You're still here ain't cha?
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
8:34 PM
@MichaelMrozek He is clearly a shady individual.
 
goldilocks
goldilocks
@terdon LOL
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@derobert at least now the way is open to overtaking @slm and @terdon. Now that they are distracted by all this moderator stuff.
 
polym
polym
the crown of votes and fame!
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
yaay, @terdon's name is now blue :P
 
derobert
derobert
8:56 PM
@FaheemMitha Nah, not really. Well, I did for a few minutes, but got over it.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@derobert That's the spirit.
 
derobert
derobert
@FaheemMitha Indeed, I was the only one to promise to only get drunk on power when killing spam. @slm and @terdon can do it whenever.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@derobert, will the inodes be created even for java bin files?
 
derobert
derobert
@Ramesh every file in the filesystem gets an inode.
same with directories, I believe.
so a .jar takes one inode (just like a .zip or .tgz)
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@derobert, that's interesting. If I recompile the java file again, the older one will probably go off right?
 
derobert
derobert
9:01 PM
if there are no longer any names (links) for that inode, it'll be freed
 
casey
casey
@derobert well, it takes a minimum of one inode
 
derobert
derobert
@casey when does a file take a second? when it has too many fragments or something similar?
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@derobert, wouldn't be redundant to create inode for java file as well as the class file?
 
derobert
derobert
@Ramesh The filesystem understands directories and files. It doesn't know that a .java and a .class are related. It just knows it was asked to store two files foo.java and foo.class in some directory, etc.
An inode is the data structure the filesystem uses to keep track of a file/directory.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@derobert, so is it possible to restrict the inode usage based on file size? For example, if I just create 100,000 1K files, there will be 100,000 4k inodes for these files.
 
derobert
derobert
9:10 PM
there will be 100,000 inodes used (which are each 128 or 256 bytes, depending). That's true whether you create 100,000 1 byte files or 100,000 1 gigabyte files.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
so, I suppose in those cases xfs file system would be good I suppose, right?
 
derobert
derobert
Not sure. Not familiar enough with xfs
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@derobert True.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
@goldilocks i voted for you.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
9:27 PM
@mikeserv, just 1000 more views. You will get a golden badge for your ls question.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
@Ramesh - what's that mean?
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@mikeserv, if your question has 10k views there is a golden badge for that.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
the ls thing? I just updated that, actually. weird
 
 
1 hour later…
mikeserv
mikeserv
10:32 PM
you guys, upvote this question please:
1
Q: "no such file or directory" message when deleting a file while its there

AlaaI have a directory with images. Suddenly I found out that there's a new image with a new name. The image content is similar to another image in another directory but with a different name. I didn't copy this image to this directory. Also a directory with the same name as the image suddenly appea...

linux rm
It's not often a no-rep op continues to update a question as asked with more and more info then comes back to notify everyone it was fixed and how.
And even when they do, they usually do it as their own answer.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@mikeserv @terdon @slm might want to use the nifty new powers to kaput all the comments :/
(there are way too many!)
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
@Braiam - at least some of them. But at least a few also have some interesting info, too. Specifically they document the troubleshooting process.
 
slm
slm
@terdon congrats terdon! Thanks to everyone I hope I don't disappoint. I'll try my damnedest to as good a job as I can 8-)
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
@slm - I'm already disappointed.
For shame. You should be cursing everyone out now you don't have to be friendly.
 
slm
slm
@mikeserv 8-)
 
Braiam
Braiam
10:37 PM
if I append || exit 0 to any command it will always return 0, right?
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
But seriously, you guys were shoe-ins anyway. And you each had my vote. Congratualations.
@Braiam. Yeah. More simply maybe: || :
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@slm, it is really not a surprise for you right?
 
slm
slm
@Ramesh I wasn't sure quite honestly. I know I wanted to do it but I wasn't sure how everyone else felt about it.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
Enough of us felt the same, apparently
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
I agree with mike.
 
Seth
Seth
10:40 PM
congrats @slm :)
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@mikeserv, I believe everyone's first vote would be obvious though people would have thought for the second vote.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@slm in the last elections I've participated, my observation is that the user with more rep gets a seat
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@slm, did you guys get to cast one vote? Assuming the candidates use up one vote for themselves, they can cast one more vote for the other candidate.
 
slm
slm
I haven't cast a vote today. Ironically I was out of the house all day (I'm on vacation from work this week) so am now trying to catch up
 
Seth
Seth
@Braiam which election was that?
 
Braiam
Braiam
10:45 PM
@mikeserv nah, I want it to be clear since it's a script in a package
@Seth huh? the only two...
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
@Ramesh - I thought the same, but for some reason cnst didn't make it,.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@mikeserv, I think since he did not answer the questions people were skeptical about him I guess.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
Hmm... I thought that would be a point in his favor...
 
Seth
Seth
@Braiam mm. Well it is generally true, sadly :-/
 
Gilles
Gilles
@derobert oh, there's a steady stream of comment flags at the moment
And you can always print the first match like: '/\(Match\).*/!d;s//\n\1/;s/.*\n//' It's fairly simple after all. Please don't confuse the problem just because you don't understand it — mikeserv 4 hours ago
 
Seth
Seth
10:47 PM
Not saying there is anything wrong with the candidates this election, but the way most of 'em follow rep is sometimes scary.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@Braiam, in this case though slm had the highest flags and he is the natural choice of people.
 
Seth
Seth
For e.g. people were saying on SO if you don't have at least 100k rep you don't stand much of a chance.
 
Gilles
Gilles
I want this one to stay, because the sed command is a good one (and one that I hadn't thought of when I wrote the answer). But most people would have skipped the insult.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
@Gilles - the one before it was just as good. I guess I have to go take screenshots...
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Seth heh, don't tell animuson that :P
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
10:49 PM
Maybe most people would not have deserved it.
 
Gilles
Gilles
trying to remember whether I actually have written a turing machine interpreter in sed
 
Seth
Seth
@Braiam If you notice, he was called up after the election ;P
 
Gilles
Gilles
I'm not sure whether I've been through this particular initiation rite
 
derobert
derobert
@Gilles Hurry, before slm gets to them
 
Gilles
Gilles
anyway, just because it's there doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. But it's good to show a way.
@derobert I'm not a mod. I'm the one who gets insulting comments several times a day with no end in sight
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
10:51 PM
@Gilles, are you a mod in some other site? I see your name in light blue.
 
derobert
derobert
@Gilles Yeah. I thought I put a MichaelMrozek in there, but my fingers apparently didn't cooperate.
 
casey
casey
@Ramesh hes a mod on a few stacks
 
Gilles
Gilles
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Gilles if you typed all those sites using the markdown (i. e. [site](url)) I will pity you
 
Gilles
Gilles
@Braiam :16263459 yes: [french.se]. [cs.se], [softwarerecs.se]
some people know how to use markup you know
 
Braiam
Braiam
10:57 PM
glad you are one of those
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
I guess it's worth saying though that this is the first time I've ever seen Gilles accept a correction. Every other time I've tried he gets all pissed off and downvotes without discretion.
 
slm
slm
@mikeserv I've never known Gilles to DV in anger or as retaliation, it's generally b/c he believes something is incorrect. The DV you have to just accept. He and I disagreed the other night and he DV'd me, I tried to fix but we disagreed even still, but I left it since I thought it was correct. That's OK to leave things like this.
Someone is currently retaliating at me on AU DV'd me yesterday and it was reversed as serial voting, now they're doing it again, but slower so they'll stick.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
@slm - I have. I don't serial downvote - and I continue to upvote posts of his that I find worthwhile,
 
Seth
Seth
@mikeserv That is a pretty bold and accusatory statement right there.
Especially against one of the most respected users on all of SE.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
Harsh or not, it's the truth as I see it.
I'd like to believe otherwise, but I don't.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
11:04 PM
@mikeserv, that's really offensive and I have flagged your comment for mod attention.
 
mikeserv
mikeserv
I am sorry. I will edit it.
 
slm
slm
@mikeserv I've never known any regulars to serial DV.
 
Gilles
Gilles
@slm I don't mind the downvotes really, it's not as if I was a new user with little rep to spare.
Having perfectly correct posts scored -1 because mikeserv doesn't like that I “plagiarized” his answer because I used a technique that he used too... and that I posted about two years ago on an answer to a somewhat similar problem... that's more of a problem
but in the end his vote is his own choice
I just wish he'd stop with the insulting comments
and worse, the slandering comments
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
@Gilles He has to, for 30 minutes. (automatic chat ban)
 
Gilles
Gilles
which are illegal, even if suing someone in a different country would be pretty much futile
@Doorknob I meant comments on the site
 
slm
slm
11:06 PM
@Gilles Yes I read through this thread the other night. I agree that everyone is free to do whatever they like with their rep DV'ing or whatever. But it's nice if we keep this place civil
 
Gilles
Gilles
I've been ignoring him in chat for a while
 
slm
slm
I know
I've been staying out of it
 
Seth
Seth
@slm That is something you should really flag.
 
slm
slm
@Seth - I'm trying to take everything in and didn't even see it
 
Seth
Seth
Well you saw it now ;)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
11:08 PM
Does anyone understand the voting rules? doesn't really matter, just curious.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
Wow, someone upvoted and once I refreshed the page the uv vanished.
0
A: Time that init waits before sending kill -9 upon shutdown?

RameshYou can specify the time after which you need to shutdown as mentioned here. shutdown -h +15 "Waiting for graceful shutdown of mysql server" EDIT I used the below script in one of the machines to check if the script is getting killed. while true; do sleep 999999; done The process was not ...

 
slm
slm
@Seth - how would I flag it, I've never done that particular flag before
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
@FaheemMitha Don't vote on a specific user
 
derobert
derobert
@FaheemMitha the voting rules?
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
Otherwise, vote however you want
Nobody can really tell you how to vote. Votes are anonymous; there are no "rules" (aside from serial voting)
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
11:09 PM
@derobert no, i meant how the election was decided, votes were counted.
 
Seth
Seth
@slm custom flag one of your posts and explain, pretty much what you just said in chat. "I think I'm getting serial DV'ed. They were reversed but now it's happening again, slower".
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
the system that was used, i guess
 
slm
slm
@Seth - thanks
 
Kevin
Kevin
 
derobert
derobert
@FaheemMitha Meek's STV is the full name of the variant used, I think. At least, that's the one showing on the graphical results page
 
Seth
Seth
11:10 PM
65
A: How are moderator election votes counted, in plain English?

Pops Here's the so-über-short-it's-almost-misleading version: Meek STV does calculations in rounds (or "iteratively," for you programmer types). In the first round, all votes count for the candidate marked as the first choice. The system figures out how many votes are needed to win. If anyone get...

 
Kevin
Kevin
It's a crazy and inefficient system that can have some unfortunate side-effects.
 
Gilles
Gilles
@slm he hasn't cast that many downvotes anyway. I've received only 16 downvotes this month. It's a lot compared to 48 in the preceding 3½ years, but it's barely a blip on the radar
 
slm
slm
@Gilles ok
 
casey
casey
I'd like to know what evidence @mikeserv thinks he has that @Gilles is serial DV him.
 
Kevin
Kevin
@Seth SO doesn't usually have more 100ks running than spots. More like 100k guarantees you a win.
 
derobert
derobert
11:13 PM
@Kevin Which system? STV? No doubt it does. Kenneth Arrow insists.
 
Kevin
Kevin
@derobert Yeah, the Meek that SE uses.
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
Is font for questions and answers specific to each SO site?
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Ramesh yup
 
Kevin
Kevin
@Ramesh Graduated sites, yes. All betas use the same CSS
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
ah. The dba site has good font.
 
derobert
derobert
11:16 PM
@Ramesh A Helvetica variant, I believe.
 
Kevin
Kevin
@Seth I checked the rep-vote relationship for this election, it was R^2=0.99 on a regression line. Granted, only 7 points isn't statistically significant, but...
 
Ramesh
Ramesh
@derobert, seems so. I like that font better than the font we have in U & L.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
@derobert It's Liberation Sans for me; I think it's just the default sans-serif font
 
slm
slm
@Seth posted a flag as you suggested.
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Kevin the fact that those words is the equivalent to Chinese to me demonstrates that I need to re-learn statistics
 
Gilles
Gilles
11:18 PM
@casey he generally doesn't understand when I explain why his answer is wrong, so every time I downvote, he concludes that I downvote because it's him. I think he's specifically complained about my downvoting of several posts that I hadn't even downvoted, as well.
 
slm
slm
@casey I'd suspect someone else is DV'ing him. Knowing Gilles he'd be the last person I'd ever suspect for that type of behavior.
 
Gilles
Gilles
And anyway by the time I vote on a post, I usually haven't even read the signature, only the content (and usually my finger is hovering around one of the buttons before I get to the end
 
casey
casey
@slm I wasn't saying I suspect @Giles (I don't), I'm just curious why @mikeserv seems convinced of it.
 
Seth
Seth
@slm Seeing some of the things he has said/commented recently I am not surprised.
 
slm
slm
@casey Right, I wasn't implying you said that either 8-)
 
Gilles
Gilles
11:20 PM
which is why I'm happy to refrain from commenting on mikeserv's answers (and I do, or at least I try to and I think I'm mostly succeeding), but refraining from voting on his answers is right out
 
slm
slm
@casey same here, I'd be curious as to why he's convinced.
 
Gilles
Gilles
and he should be happy, I just upvoted his answer to the NTFS weirdness question. While the answer is lacking an in-depth explanation, it does identify the immediate cause and provide a solution
@slm presumably for the same reason he accuses me of plagiarism: he doesn't like me, so he looks for reasons to blame me
 
casey
casey
@Gilles thats kind of what I was thinking. A few acknowledged DV and a subsequent perception that all DV must come from the same source.
 
Gilles
Gilles
I've seen very similar behavior before as a mod
 
casey
casey
@Gilles just remember to attribute him every time you use a heredoc :)
 
Gilles
Gilles
11:23 PM
including people who accused another person of serial downvoting... while that person's profile clearly showed that they'd never cast a single downvote
 
Kevin
Kevin
R^2 is (very) roughly a measure of the probability of a linear relationship being due to chance.
 
Gilles
Gilles
@casey or an initramfs, or awk. But I claim the use of arithmetic expressions in prompts, dammit.
 
casey
casey
@Gilles yep. we had a person in the early ES beta that would post stuff in meta like "I saw user123's DV increased by one on his profile between 4pm and 5pm, and I got a DV during that hour but he didn't leave a comment, why is he bullying me?"
 
Seth
Seth
@casey Good grief!
 
derobert
derobert
@casey "Probably he's upset that you're stalking him."
 
Braiam
Braiam
11:28 PM
@derobert I love that
 
casey
casey
@Seth even better: he'd pop into chat and immediately ping user123 and lead right into "WHY DID YOU DV ME" every time he got a DV
we finally got him to make sure he asked "user123, did you DV this post?" before he started yelling.
 
slm
slm
It's best to try and deal with a DV but ultimately try to ignore them if they're not constructive, otherwise you'll go crazy, which is what a serial DV is trying to do to you in the 1st place.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Kevin ok
@derobert Ok, thanks. Yes, I saw that, don't know what it means.
@Seth Thanks for the link.
 
casey
casey
@slm we had a few sock puppets on ES that decided to serial UV all of us mods. To make us happy I guess? They did over +/- an hour of 00UTC so they managed to UV about 380 rep onto all of us before it was reversed.
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Kevin there were 7 candidates.
@Braiam linear regression
straight line plot, basically.
 
Kevin
Kevin
11:33 PM
@FaheemMitha Still not significant
 
Braiam
Braiam
the only thing that irks me about downvotes is when you have the only answer in the question, get downvotes and after 1, 2, 24 hours there isn't another answer
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
@Kevin not a very large data set, granted.
 
slm
slm
@casey I've had ppl try and thank me for A'ers before (I'm guessing) where they've UV'd me and then had it all reversed too. They've basically maxed me out for the day and then I can't get anymore, then when there votes get reversed I lose all it, which is ironically funny 8-)
 
Gilles
Gilles
on a general note, I'm afraid we have a lot of x11 questions which should be tagged xorg or vice versa
with such a high market share, it isn't always easy to make the distinction
 
Braiam
Braiam
 
Faheem Mitha
Faheem Mitha
11:44 PM
Wow, watching gcc build is an awe-inspiring sight.
 
Kevin
Kevin
Unfortunately, you're blocked from asking questions on Meta.SE, so the system won't let me migrate this there. Nothing I can do about that. — Brad Larson ♦ Jun 21 at 15:03
 
Braiam
Braiam
@Kevin I know... it was... just funny
 
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