/dev/chat

12:07 AM

@casey - there's this: gdriv.es/mikeserv/gilles_screenshot.png

That was just yesterday, a week ago that would have been a downvote - he's been a little more careful since I've made it clear I've noticed.

And I wouldn't care about downvotes - I never cared for points at all.

But so often he'll downvote a post then post his own answer that is similar in technique or style or whatever.

I hate that - it's dishonest.

Why not just improve the other?

And a lot of times he does it with snide comments about what's wrong with it - before mimicking the same technique. What kinda person does that?

This one:

-2

A: Replace string containing newline in huge file

There are a lot of ways to do this, and most here are really good, but I think this one's my favorite: tr '>\n' '\n>' | sed 's/^>*//;H;/./!d;x;y/\n>/>\n/' Or even: tr '>\n' '\n>' | sed 's/^>*//' | tr '\n>' '>\n'

That one I posted the screenshot of - that one he has his own answer on now, and it's not much different.

This one:

3

A: Howto run interactive commands, as another user

sudo su - << 'EOF' # do stuff... EOF This works, but with a limitation: the script is passed to the shell on its standard input, so you don't get to use the standard input for something else such as reading the name of the user to create. The simple way of retaining standard input is to pass...

This just the other night:

1

Q: Setting PATH vs. exporting PATH in ~/.bash_profile

What's the difference and which is better to use when customizing my bash profile? Documentation on the export command is scarce, as it's a builtin cmd. Excerpt from version 1 of my ~/.bash_profile: #PATH export PATH=/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:$HOME/bin #add Homebrew’s sbin t...

polym

on the last question i didn't know why he added his comment to my answer

asked him why it is PATH=PATH=... and if it is just a typo, no answer yet :(

mikeserv

I know man.

He's rude.

Not that I'm not - but it doesn't matter that much to me, not the points or whatever. It's the information that does.

Oh this one really set me off:

-2

A: Serialize shell variable in bash or zsh

printf 'VAR=$(cat <<\'$$VAR$$'\n%s\n'$$VAR$$'\n)' "$VAR" >./VAR.file Another way to do it is to ensure you handle all 'hardquotes like this: sed '"s/'"'/&"&"&/g;H;1h;$!d;g;'"s/.*/VAR='&'/" <<$$VAR$$ >./VAR.file $VAR $$VAR$$ Or with export: env - "VAR=$VAR" sh -c 'export -p' >./VAR.file T...

He did that and the interactive commands and the string replace thing all in the same day - it was terrible.

He personally insults in his comments as well. I guess I just understood that was the behavior he expects of everyone, so I've followed suit.

That's only the last couple days.

And it's true, I don't like him. I don't like him because I don't trust anyone that reacts to 'I downvoted this post because it is incorrect. There is no such thing as UEFI BIOS. If you will fix it I will happily reverse my vote.' That's as near as I can remember it) like:

Jun 4 at 1:05, by Gilles

The term “UEFI BIOS” is used by people who write that software. It's used by people who write UEFI specifications.

That wasn't the part - but if you follow that you'll see the chat thread. The guy was a jerk.

Now I'll find the actual comment...

Well here's the whole chat thread: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/26/conversation/gilles-uefi

Here:

1

A: Does BIOS read directly the bootloader or load it into RAM?

The CPU read the BIOS […] That's a somewhat simplified view, but the basic idea is right. Typical initialization code actually consists of several successive pieces. The Bios will then read the MBR to load the primary boot loader That's a legacy BIOS. Modern PC BIOS has a standardized ...

He says: Maybe in your world “BIOS” means “legacy BIOS”... what is that supposed to mean? That is a very typical gilles quote, as far as my experience goes.

Anyway, I've had enough.

David Freitag

12:34 AM

@polym The PATH=PATH piece concatenates the value onto the end of the path variable

polym

PATH=PATH=somestuff?

so if PATH was previously string1

it will be string1somestuff? no?

i tested it and i was wondering :(

and for the terminology on uefi / bios. i don't know much about it to talk about it

Kevin

@polym Yes

Clearly a typo.

David Freitag

@mikeserv @Gilles is right, UEFI is a type of BIOS.

Kevin

His point was that $PATH is already exported so doesn't need to be exported again.

polym

ok now my confusion is gone :)

mikeserv

12:37 AM

No, UEFI is not a type of bios.

polym

yes that part i understood and i was thankful for that information

mikeserv

UEFI is a type of firmware.

polym

the second sentence was not clear to me, especially the PATH=PATH=... statement, so i asked

mikeserv

BIOS is a type of firmware.

David Freitag

No, UEFI is a firmware interface

mikeserv

12:38 AM

True.

David Freitag

BIOS is both the firmware and the interface.

mikeserv

But BIOS is not UEFI.

And UEFI is not BIOS.

They differ in almost every respect.

Still, even if it were true, does that excuse his rudeness? I was not rude to him.

And it was not an isolated incident.

None of these are.

David Freitag

Not to be too picky, but your comment was just a rude as his were.

mikeserv

As soon as someone starts taking him to task in the manner he does others he pleads slander and offers civil suit.

David Freitag

Not that I condone being rude, I just wanted to point that out.

mikeserv

12:41 AM

I disagree - though you give me pause - I stated exactly what I did and why. And I offered to reverse my vote.

my motivation was respect.

polym

Oh cool I just noticed that my message with dmesg | aplay was faved quite often :D. That's a cool feature, that fav-feed. Nice :)

mikeserv

Yes. it was a cool command, too.

David Freitag

@mikeserv It's in your wording. You said "If you can fix it" that could be interpreted as an implication that he doesn't know any better.

mikeserv

Oh - that was not my intent - though I do see how it could be read that way. I meant to offer no insult, I was just asking if he would. I always sucked at mother may I - it was always can I...

polym

@mikeserv haha thanks :)

@mikeserv and i agree that @Gilles can be somewhat confusing. I didn't know why he remarked that PATH=... also works without export, because it didn't had to do anything with the question. His second sentence was valuable information, though.

and i am easily confused :D

David Freitag

12:48 AM

@mikeserv As always, it isn't about your intent it's about people's interpretations. Anyway I wouldn't loose too much sleep over it "seasoned professionals" tend to get grumpy.

mikeserv

They often are, though I hate to admit it. He's not a 200k rep user for nothing. But neither is he much of a people person in my experience.

I don't - if sleep were a sport, I'd be a contender.

Ramesh

military dude!!!

polym

and here comes mr military :D

mikeserv

Yeah. One thing I learned in the army - I can sleep anywhere at any time in almost any condition.

polym

you can't sleep while your system runs rm -rf / !

mikeserv

12:52 AM

Sorry for the offense earlier, @Ramesh. I'll try to mind my ps and qs going forward.

Ramesh

@mikeserv, no issues. I just want this site to be user friendly as always it is :)

mikeserv

@polym - that sounds like a challenge...

polym

@mikeserv try it! it's fun! :D

So why does SO and other SE have colored code blocks while we wallow in grey?

or do i miss something?

David Freitag

@polym Ok, just let me open a terminal to the production servers...

Kevin

@DavidFreitag Which comment? "No, UEFI is a firmware interface"?

mikeserv

12:55 AM

I think you miss something...

polym

@DavidFreitag haha :D

David Freitag

@Kevin His first comment on Gilles' answer.

polym

@mikeserv but where's a colored (syntax highlighting) coding block in Unix SE? I can't find any :(

e.g. for loops

i see some red

and greyer grey

mikeserv

Isn't it automatic? Ahh, well, there you go!

David Freitag

@mikeserv I'm the same way. If it weren't for my alarm clock I'd sleep through whole weekends.

mikeserv

12:58 AM

@DavidFreitag - I bet you have and just don't know it.

polym

oh wow i must have missed it

yeah actually they have color

i must have been color blind

mikeserv

Now you're cured!

polym

halleluja!

mikeserv

@DavidFreitag - one day we'll both wake up in the library after the holocaust and my glasses will break...

David Freitag

@mikeserv Fortunately I have very good sight. I'll have to read you everything.

polym

1:00 AM

echo "novel" | espeak

Kevin

@polym Apparently it was deleted, yours is the first I see.

mikeserv

dmesg | espeak

polym

:D

mikeserv

I once found this web browser for blind people based on ed.

polym

@Kevin the first what? I don't get the reference right now, confusion level upgraded :(

Kevin

1:03 AM

@polym Comment on Gilles' answer on this question

Don't worry about it.

terdon

By the way, @polym, rm -rf / fails. You can sleep safely.

25

A: Does 'rm .*' ever delete the parent directory?

The latest (as of 2013) version of the POSIX spec for the rm utility is here (and the previous one there) and forbids the deletion of . and ... If either of the files dot or dot-dot are specified as the basename portion of an operand (that is, the final pathname component) or if an operand re...

mikeserv

edbrowse - it was easy enough to find again. the-brannons.com/edbrowse

The documentation is excellent. That would be pretty cool with espeak.

David Freitag

@mikeserv Yeah but can you imagine visiting a long page? It would be torture to wait for espeak to finish.

mikeserv

But you script it - it's all ed.

Kevin

@DavidFreitag curl stackoverflow.com | aspeak

Ramesh

1:05 AM

I used w3m for text browser.

mikeserv

I've been using it too, but I'm looking for something else

.....

Ramesh

lynx may be?

mikeserv

l*n* probably - there are a lot of them.

Braiam

anyone sees what could be wrong here? unix.stackexchange.com/a/138385/41104

polym

@terdon Oh cool. I don't want to test it, but oh cool :D

David Freitag

1:09 AM

@polym Just spin up a VM and give it a shot :]

Kevin

@polym That's what VMs are for.

mikeserv

@Ramesh - have you used any of them? I can't really tell the difference without really getting into it.

Ramesh

@mikeserv, I used w3m. I used it to download millions of rows from websites.

Kevin

@mikeserv links handles tables and/or some basic CSS, lynx doesn't.

polym

I will write my own rm, with no restrictions and debug messages!

@Da

argh

@DavidFreitag @Kevin haha

mikeserv

1:11 AM

@Kevin thanks. @Ramesh - how'd you do that?

terdon

@polym:

> 2.11 Treating `/' specially
===========================

Certain commands can operate destructively on entire hierarchies. For
example, if a user with appropriate privileges mistakenly runs `rm -rf
/ tmp/junk', that may remove all files on the entire system. Since
there are so few legitimate uses for such a command, GNU `rm' normally
declines to operate on any directory that resolves to `/'. If you
really want to try to remove all the files on your system, you can use
the `--no-preserve-root' option, but the default behavior, specified by

^^ from info rm

Ramesh

@mikeserv, you mean how did I download the data?

mikeserv

Yeah?

polym

oh yes! rm -rf --no-preserve-root / tmp/user !! that will go unnoticed for sure!

mikeserv

@polym - that's almost long enough to put me to sleep.

Ramesh

1:13 AM

curl ""unix.stackexchange.com"" -s | w3m -dump -T text/html > foo.txt

polym

@mikeserv :D:D

mikeserv

Oh. Duh.

polym

oh god i am listening to a html document

what has my life come to

Ramesh

And then, from foo.txt I just did text manipulation to extract the data I want.

polym

dot xml

mikeserv

1:14 AM

That's pretty cool though - you used a for loop or something?

David Freitag

Someone should get deadmau5 to remix an html document from espeak.

mikeserv

Just send him : dmesg | aplay.

polym

d-d-d-drop the href!

Ramesh

Nopes. I knew the site always followed the same structure. So, I know the keywords under which my data willl occur.

I just used a mix of grep, perl, sed, awk

mikeserv

I meant for the different websites - or was it all the same site?

Ramesh

1:15 AM

It was for the same website.

mikeserv

Ahh. So the -T will pipe out clean text? That's useful.

Ramesh

The website's general URL follows a particular pattern. After which they use a name which I had from another source.

I do not remember. I just was googling and found this tool.

mikeserv

Thanks, @Ramesh.

Ramesh

Then did yum install w3m and there you go. Everything worked.

polym

alias o.o='echo ʕ•_•ʔ'

o.o

$ o.o

ʕ•_•ʔ\

:D

mikeserv

1:21 AM

@Braiam - I have no idea - but this is a couple a links deep if it helps: code.google.com/p/touchegg/wiki/Fedora17MacbookAirHOWTO

Ramesh

Anyone knows innodb concepts here?

polym

a cool function to get quick definitions: function wiki() { dig +short txt "$1".wp.dg.cx; } -> wiki word -> "In language, a word is the smallest element...."

mikeserv

crickets

polym

Does your upload... button besides the send button also not work?

Because nothing happens when I click it

whaaaat

now it is working

what is happening with me

ha! but that 'select an area by dragging across the lower chart' statement on a users reputation graph is still a nasty lie!

or i am too dumb to use it

How do I select an area? I feel like a monkey that doesn't know what to do D:

Kevin

@polym The lower chart.

click and drag.

polym

1:28 AM

@KEvin yes yes the one with the blue box or?

I click and drag, javascript is activated, nothing happens :(

Kevin

Yes, the blue box.

polym

Yes that one. I click it, I hold it, I try to move it. It's not even moving a pixel :(

chrome here

anyone here hating chrome? now is your time to shine!

Seth

@polym Do you have all the SE CDN's whitelisted from anything?

terdon

So you click on the lower graph, then drag the mouse (while holding the button down) and you don't see the box's size changing? It works fine for me on chrome and firefox.

polym

well i whitelisted only some SE

@Seth

Seth

1:31 AM

might be missing some .js files somewhere..

polym

@terdon nope :(

@Seth hmm that might be aw shucks

terdon

I think Seth probably nailed it. Dunno what that calls.

Braiam

@polym check the console Ctrl + Shift + J

Seth

^^

polym

@Braiam and now? :S

I see some .js files in resources

Seth

1:33 AM

reload the page

polym

kk

Braiam

search for errors or you are as geek as Seth

polym

no errors on reload

Seth

This might help:

24

A: Can we have a list of all the Stack Exchange domains somewhere, for firewall purposes?

*.sstatic.net has all our static files. This is pretty much required to use the sites. ajax.googleapis.com has JavaScript that helps the site function as expected. Pretty much required. stackauth.com is needed for global login. Optional, but convenient if you're active on several Stack Exchange...

polym

I forgot my wizard hat today

mikeserv

1:37 AM

@polym is a funny dude.

polym

@mikeserv :))

@Seth I added some these sites to my js whitelist, but it didn't change anything. Oh my, I might never be able to move that blue box!

mikeserv

give it up

polym

ok

:(

Seth

Do you have sstatic.net and ajax.googleapis.com?

polym

@Seth yes, i even tried with whitelist off and allow everything.

Seth

1:43 AM

That is weird.

polym

yes :(.

He looks at me with disappointment

Ramesh

How do these starred comments appear in the side bar?

mikeserv

But if you look away and back again he's smiling.

polym

@mikeserv :D, he just smiles to you :(

@Ramesh Well I think also with JS from SO/SE. I don't know why it is not working, it is just plain weird

Ramesh

@polym, no. I mean how are they starred to begin with?

terdon

1:48 AM

@Ramesh Hover over a message => a black star appears on the right => click star

polym

@Ramesh How? hover over a message, black star on the right side

:)

oh god that smiley

8)

that is more creepy

terdon

Or, use the main menu. Hover over a message, click on the down arrow on the left, choose your action.

Ramesh

Yaay. Two stars by Eric cartman :)

polym

haha :D

mikeserv

Oh man - @terdon - maybe don't answer his next question.

terdon

1:51 AM

Heh.

Ramesh

@terdon, time to show off here unix.stackexchange.com/users/22222/terdon

polym

stackoverflow.com/q/8608226/3739455 Snowflakes!

terdon

@Ramesh Show off? You mean change my About to mention that I'm now a mod? Yes, I'll get round to that.

Ramesh

@terdon, yeah, that's what I meant.

terdon

But there's a diamond there anyway so if you get as far as my profile, you'll see it.

I did mention it in my chat user's about where it might be more useful.

Ramesh

1:59 AM

@terdon, is this the first site you are becoming a mod?

polym

Oh look, I was elected to be an mod ! chat.stackexchange.com/users/119713/polym See, my about says so! :D

Oh no its gone :(

oh no it isnt!

youtube.com/watch?v=K0ITgMtyppA oh wow cool

terdon

@Ramesh Yup.

casey

3:07 AM

@polym "♦ mod" is a bit redundant

mikeserv

@casey - agreed, but I think it's better for it.

@casey - did I answer your question?

casey

I just got back in front of a computer, Its in another tab I haven't got around to reading yet

I'll let you know

mikeserv

okeydoke. But I do expect heredoc attributions - without royalties my kid doesn't eat...

mikeserv

3:34 AM

@casey - I was reading back through and I saw the initramfs remark he made. Admittedly, the remark was kind of funny, but I think every interchange I've had with him since has been unpleasant. So, there's this: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/26/conversation/gilles-initramfs

gilles - more initramfs

Mar 30 at 2:42, 13 minutes total – 25 messages, 6 users, 3 stars

Bookmarked 5 mins ago by mikeserv

I guess - at least at one point - you agreed with him, but I still can't see in what way I was rude.

-3

A: Why do I need initramfs ?

No matter what you do, you have initramfs. There is no doing without it - it is the only filesystem imposed upon you. From kernel.org: What is rootfs? Rootfs is a special instance of ramfs (or tmpfs, if that's enabled), which is always present in 2.6 systems. You can't unmount rootfs for appro...

0

A: How to add folders and file before compiling kernel

The kernel docs explain how to pack an image into the kernel itself. From kernel.org: What is rootfs? Rootfs is a special instance of ramfs (or tmpfs, if that's enabled), which is always present in 2.6 systems. You can't unmount rootfs for approximately the same reason you can't kil...

The comments on this answer are pretty typical gilles:

1

A: realpath command not found

There are at least two programs called realpath: An old program from back when GNU coreutils didn't include readlink -f. It is now deprecated in favor of readlink -f, so many distributions have stopped carrying it. The realpath program introduced in GNU coreutils 8.15. This is too old to be in ...

mikeserv

3:55 AM

@casey the last thing I will say on the matter is that you should strongly consider this:

5 hours ago, by Gilles

And anyway by the time I vote on a post, I usually haven't even read the signature, only the content (and usually my finger is hovering around one of the buttons before I get to the end

When you look at this:

Now I think I'll watch a movie.

Seth

That means absolutely nothing. So he happened to edit when you got a downvote? You still have no proof or anything that he downvoted your post, much less your accusation of "serial downvoting you".

casey

@mikeserv Just FYI I'm one of your DV on that particular post (I UV one of the comments rather than leaving my own). I believe I said so in chat, but I DV because I feel you missed the point of the Q. E.g. your post was factual but not relevant.

mikeserv

@casey - Ok, which one? The initramfs?

@Seth - no - I didn't get a downvote.

I got an upvote.

That disappeared.

And it was actually within 45 seconds.

Seth

4:11 AM

So someone accidentally upvoted your question and then removed the upvote?

mikeserv

But I sat there for a minute thinking about it before I took a picture. And it wasn't the first time it happened.

No, @Seth. Someone read the post, with their cursor hovering over the upvote button, clicked it, then read the signature.

At least, that's my assumption. And I don't have much more to base it on.

But it happens a lot.

And it's usually during @Gilles's rounds.

In the afternoons - my time, anyway - he'll do like an hour where he'll systematically go through and edit all the tags or whatever.

Seth

Still, that really isn't enough proof IMO to start calling someone names and accusing them of breaking one of the biggest rules on purpose.

mikeserv

He's good for the site, and usually he has good answers, but that doesn't make him any less of a jerk.

I know - it's not proof. I have nothing better than circumstancial evidence. But I'm not crazy, and I'm not unreasonable.

I only call him what I know him to be.

Well, he has definitely done the same of me, though, @Seth.

That I can prove - and he did it first.

A moment.

It's in the thread behind this, @Seth.

Jun 15 at 22:34, by Gilles

tit-for-tat downvoting... I think it's the first time I see it here :(

Seth

and you are taking that to mean he started doing it?

mikeserv

No, it was expressly said of him in the comments on that answer before they were deleted.

He said it of me, then repeated it in the chatroom. And he was wrong.

Or, well, maybe on his answer to that question.

He called it... downvote dang...

It was a funny turn of phrase - british.

downvote... something

It will come to me. Michael Mrozek deleted it.

Anyway, believe what you will, but I'm only mostly a jerk. I am also honest and besides, even if I weren't, I would have no cause to lie.

1 min til I watch Hobbit : continued.

broadband is great.

@casey - as I've said, I don't mind downvotes - I don't care. But the comments there are telling - if you're talking about the initramfs one that is.

Gilles

7:45 AM

@polym yes, it is. I'm traveling and I'm a bit behind in replies

@polym from the question: “What's the benefit of using export vs. setting PATH explicitly?”

Faheem Mitha

8:24 AM

Am I the only one who finds the Debian multiarch constraint of having the versions of packages of all archs the same annoying?

If I want dpkg to return all packages containing either the string gcc, g++ or libstd, what should I write?

Doea anyone happen to know what Debian packages like gcc-4.9-multilib are used for? The description isn't that clear.

Rqomey

8:44 AM

@Caleb do you mean CW type answers aren't good across all SE sites, or just the Unix and Linux one? I suppose the issue is if you go back over an older question and put in a new answer, it will generally remain last as there is less voting activity. But sure, I'll answer where I can :)

Caleb

9:01 AM

@Rqomey CW is being phased out across all SE sites and as it has been proven to be an ineffective solution for most of the issues it was purported to address. There are very few situations where its use is recommended.

@Rqomey CW would not fix the vote issue on an old question. On the other hand just adding an answer does bump it to the home page and it will get reviewed. If it really is better than the other answers and provides a level of usefulness that the others do not on their own, it will get some love. You have to at least exceed the value of the current answers however or it is unlikely to get any traction.

Faheem Mitha

CW (Community Wiki)? What's wrong with it?

fahdijbeli

10:02 AM

hi all;

is there a good screen recorder for linux 12.04

?

I installed istunboul but I tried an example and it's not good :(

slm

10:59 AM

regarding our conv. the other night about the unicorn painting @ 200k rep for Gilles

8

Q: Is it true that if someone reaches 200k reputation he/she gets a painting with an unicorn on it?

I've seen a blog post with Jon Skeet on it holding a painting of an unicorn with the title "What happens if you reach 200k reputation?"

discussion reputation unicorn

terdon

1:29 PM

@slm did you get my ping from the mod room? (Wondering if it works as I think).

Faheem Mitha

2:03 PM

clang 3.4 or 3.5 on Debian wheezy. Anyone got an opinion?

@slm I think Gilles could paint his own unicorn painting if he wants one.

terdon

2:39 PM

Wow. I just got the popular question badge (1k views) for a question with 0 upvotes! o_O

Patrick

o.O

@terdon which one?

terdon

0

Q: How can I change the GTK engine on Cinnamon >= 2.0?

I just upgraded to Cinnamon 2.0.14 on my LMDE laptop and in this new version I am unable to change the GTK engine used. Menus and widgets in general look very ugly: When they should look something like this: In principle, I should be able to change this using Cinnamon's own settings app in ...