English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

theUg

00:01

How does the German eszett (dang, I forgot the spelling) relate to combination ſs?

tchrist

Same thing.

Well, kinda.

Also sz.

Or ſz, rather.

theUg

Was eszett common in English way back, as per your examples?

Is that sz related to eastern-European sz combo?

tchrist

“Common”? Well, I can’t find the links, weird. But yes, it happened.

theUg

Ha, I just got it. es-zett = sz

tchrist

Yes, exactly.

Oh, here it is:

6

Q: During what period of history did English use “ß”, the “sharp s” ligature?

The ß glyph is a lowercase letter than represents a ligature between a long s and a round s, and is still used today in (some versions of) German. Its uppercase equivalent is two characters instead of one: SS. It was apparently also once used in just the same way English, but I cannot find just...

theUg

00:05

Did they go away with it in recent reform? When I took German in school in the late 90s they still taught fooßball.

tchrist

Not füß?

The Swiss I think may have done away with it.

theUg

Ah, I’m old, memory is not the same. Indeed

tchrist

You aren’t allowed to complain of age-related memory loss to people older and stupider than yourself.

theUg

Ah, the Swiss should stick with cheese and chocolate, and stop messing with the language. After all,they have another three.

tchrist

I’ve forgotten more things than most people ever knew. :)

theUg

00:06

Ha-ha.

tchrist

Really. It happens sometimes in your forties. You stop being able to keep everything in your head at once. It seems to get moved into long-term storage, and takes a while before the entire working set is restored.

You can eventually fill it up again, but it isn’t there at your fingertips.

Out of sight out of mind has become out of mind out of sight.

theUg

It sometimes happen with me. Usually with trivial stuff, but still annoying. sometimes I cannot come up with clint Eastwood’s name for minutes, even though I have all his movies and characters floating in my head.

tchrist

Yes, that kind of thing.

But entire domains.

theUg

Mayhaps I should drink more…

tchrist

I just poured a cup of coffee. At 5 in the afternoon.

It’s the only kind of drinking that seems to help, but it is such a delicate balance before you spin out of control.

But otherwise I was going to go to sleep.

theUg

00:12

I like my tea. I can coffee sometimes, plain or fancy, but I don’t understand people who guzzle barrels of sub-par brown liquid of dubious quality.

tchrist

I might have had two cups this morning. I usually do.

By cup, I mean mug.

With probably holds a cup and a half or so.

12 oz.

A serving of coffee is allegedly 6 oz.

theUg

I don’t believe in servings. I have to eat 2 to 4 at a time to fill meself. And I’m not fat.

tchrist

A serving is not a meal.

theUg

I do burn fair share of kcal.

tchrist

A meal consists of a serving of this and a serving of that, along with a serving of the other thing.

Good for you.

theUg

00:16

I like several servings of this, with cheese on top.

tchrist

It is better to eat a lot and burn a lot than to eat a lot and burn a little, or even than to eat a little and burn a little.

At least, if you want to live a long time.

The eat a little thing apparently is the only thing that works.

theUg

I hope math works out. They say one’s heart only has a resource of that many beats, and when I burn them kcal it beats a lot, but, supposedly, should compensate with lower rate rest of the time.

Ugh. I wonder if I was downvoted because the answer is bad, or is that political bullshit?

tchrist

That, too.

Probably the latter.

theUg

00:37

Q about Q: why would such question about how the language resource works be so bad for language.SE? I ask here, as people are more experienced.

-1

Q: Differences in Russian corpora composition / Отличия в сотаве корпусов русского языка

Several times, when doing corporal search, I have noticed that the National Corpus of Russian Language (NCRL) returns less results than Google Ngrams, sometimes vastly less. Especially, when more technical and industrial terms were concerned. Google search, on the other hand, gives much earlier e...

корпуса

tchrist

You asked, “Why wouldn’t two organizations join forces?” That does not seem like the greatest possible match for our Q&A format.

It does not seem to lend itself to a single correct answer.

theUg

The last paragraph is more of an afterthought. Main issues I had is what is included, and how can one see what is included, what is excluded and why, what is pending, and why etc.

It’s just if someone heard something about the last part, and there is news article, that’s fine. If not, I do not think it would invite speculation.

tchrist

Perhaps you might distill your thoughts into one obvious question, maybe even putting it in the title.

As it is, it is hard to fish out of the text.

theUg

00:56

I might try.

chatkillah

Hi.

tchrist

@chatkillah I just got 10" here, which might well be on its way thither.

chatkillah

@tchrist Ugh. Yes, it is supposed to hit 'round midnight.

We're so excited.

tchrist

Ours should stop overnight with only 2-3" more.

chatkillah

Supposed to have ice pellets in there.

Supposed to go most of Monday with a total of 4-8".

tchrist

01:07

I hated all the ice in the southern plains.

chatkillah

Scratch the ice pellets, maybe.

tchrist

But it was not that cold.

Which kept the streets not so terrible.

I guess it will go down to 10 tonight.

Which will freeze everything again. It was in the upper 20s during the day.

chatkillah

Okay, frizzle tonight, snow tomorrow night.

It was over 40 today.

tchrist

This is a spring snow, not a winter one, in that it is wet.

chatkillah

Our last was very wet.

Which I guess was yours first.

tchrist

01:11

We didn’t get as much on that one. Just a few inches, 4 I think.

I guess the folks coming down from the mountains on I-70 are having a bit of a crawl.

There seem to be school closures today, of Sunday events.

chatkillah

Ours was the offspring of an arctic blast from above and a warmness from the Gulf.

tchrist

We don’t get arctic blasts.

chatkillah

Mountains protect you?

tchrist

Something about being too close to the mountains.

Yes.

We more often have warmer weather than we should for this latitude and altitude.

There is a warm protective finger that stretches up the front of the Rockies. It gives out somewhere around Wyoming, typically.

It doesn’t help people on the inside.

(afk)

MετάEd

@tchrist Which finger?

chatkillah

01:18

@tchrist Sounds nice. Do they deal with the snow exceptionally well?

tchrist

02:47

@MετάEd Considering that it emanates from Texas, I think the answer must be obvious.

MετάEd

@tchrist Exactly what I was thinking.

Epitorial

03:20

Northern Hemisphere sets new, all-time record cold temperature: −96.1°F in Oymyakon, Siberia!

http://www.sott.net/article/258795-Northern-Hemisphere-sets-new-all-time-record-cold-temperature-96-1F-In-Oymyakon-Siberia

From Facebook page, SOTT.NET

TemporaryNickName

07:48

@Epitorial oh my gawd

that is cold like shiiiiit!

Epitorial

09:30

@TemporaryNickName: The most coldest place on earth but people there can still live.

TemporaryNickName

Damn

-96.1F

I can't even imagine how cold it is

Epitorial

Yeah.

Gonna play ME. Guhbye for now.

TemporaryNickName

09:55

Guhbye

Epitorial

11:48

NASA's Kepler mission has discovered a new planetary system that is home to the smallest planet yet found around a star like our sun, approximately 210 light-years away in the constellation Lyra.

The line up compares artist's concepts of the planets in the Kepler-37 system to the moon and planets in the solar system. The smallest planet, Kepler-37b, is slightly larger than our moon, measuring about one-third the size of Earth. Kepler-37c, the second planet, is slightly smaller than Venus, measuring almost three-quarters the size of Earth. Kepler-37d, the third planet, is twice the size of …

Originally posted by a Facebook page, Milky way scientists.

tchrist

14:16

@Epitorial Dry ice freezes at −109.3°F, so that is getting close.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Lowest temperature recorded on Earth

The lowest natural temperature ever recorded at the surface of the Earth was at the Soviet Vostok Station in Antarctica, on July 21, 1983. This is lower than the sublimation point of carbon dioxide (dry ice). Lower temperatures have been achieved in the laboratory, including a record low temperature of 100 pK, or 1.0 × 10-10 K in 1999. Early laboratory cooling In 1904 Dutch scientist Heike Kamerlingh Onnes created a special lab in Leiden with the aim of producing liquid helium. In 1908 he managed to lower the temperature to less than four degrees above absolute zer...

−89.2 °C (−128.6 °F; 184.0 K)

So I don't know what record that Siberia thing is claiming to break

Andrew Leach

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's a world record for the northern hemisphere

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:35

@AndrewLeach ah

So not so much a "world record" as a "northern hemisphere record"

Andrew Leach

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Much the same as the "World Series" though!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@AndrewLeach Ha ha, yes. At least the Blue Jays won a couple times, so it's not just the US series.

tchrist

15:02

God, isn’t football season over with yet?

KitFox

Hahaha.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist August to May.

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080911145728AAf23PN

tchrist

@AndrewLeach You need to take a walk on the foxy side. :)

tchrist

15:18

2013 Business English that makes you blow chow.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist most of those words are pretty awful. But I dispute that "phablet" is a buzz-word. A phablet is the device that's in between a phone and a tablet. That word is meant to mock that category of devices which supposedly nobody wants. Ironically they are very popular.

like "tri-ti-tasking": why would anyone ever use that word? Just say multitasking or say something less dumb, like triple-tasking or tri-tasking. Why stick an extra syllable in there? It makes it sound stupid.

tchrist

People some men think tit makes anything better.

MετάEd

15:34

@tchrist Doesn'tit?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist If it were just tit-tasking it'd still be way better than tri-ti-tasking.

If you're coining a new word that requires more than one hyphen you should really stop and go shoot yourself.

tchrist

What if it’s not a run-of-the-mill word? Now-a-days people do crazy things, but so it has always been.

Benjamin

Guys is there a book that interprets or comments on shakespeare sonnets? i'm a new learner and some of them are really hard for me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Benjamin Yes.

Benjamin

Oh really? can you name it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:47

No. But If you do a search for "shakespeare sonnets commentary" or something like that you're sure to find something.

But pretty much everything shakespeare has been analyzed to death. So there's bound to be tons of books on that subject.

eg this website which I just found: shakespeares-sonnets.com

Benjamin

Thanks thousand times you helped me alot, i'll engage on it, thanks dude

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

np

Epitorial

16:04

Great link, @tchrist.

►

tchrist

When are they going to give us plebes an explicit Migrate-to-ELL option? Here are 50 nominated candidates, almost all closed.

wishes Grace were here

Robusto

16:48

@tchrist They won't, because they're pissed we got ELL over TPTB's objections. So this is their way of punishing us.

tchrist

What, you mean they don’t like that WOG overruled TBTB?

I even got a fricking downvote on that answer.

Robusto

@tchrist Which?

tchrist

This one on Meta.

0

A: Questions for English Language Learners Stack Exchange

Currently, querying Google for "better fit" "english language learners" on ELU comes up with 34 hits, of which 28 appears to be Reg’s suggestions. Here is an assortment of FIFTY of these ELU questions that were nominated for ELL, generated using the query given above and closely related ones. ...

Sure, I have a typo, but sheesh!

Andrew Leach

I got downvoted on

-1

A: Questions for English Language Learners Stack Exchange

That's no way to go to your mother.what is the actual(implied) letters/word in "that's" I have read a sentence like this:That's no way to go to your mother.here in this sentence what is implied(by a aportrophe and a "s") in "that's".and what is the meaning and structure of t...

which is obviously ELL material.

tchrist

I can understand — in principle — somebody disagreeing with one particular suggestion, but fifty of them? Maybe they just don’t like ELL at all.

Then there is this one, which has a negative score but no comment telling me what they think I should improve. It’s not as though anybody has stepped up to the plate to try to answer.

-1

A: What is the correct way to construct a conditional sentence with “would”?

Without seeing the actual text of the sentence you mention having seen, and probably also its surrounding context, it is impossible to say for certain. In the edited text on the bottom, I posit a couple of ways in which it would be acceptable in Standard English. However, in the most common way ...

Robusto

17:01

@tchrist Upvoted.

tchrist

Thanks. I wonder how to get TPTB to think about it.

Robusto

Catch them in bed with a dead woman or a live boy.

tchrist

0

Q: Fifty Migration Candidates from ELU > ELL

Some weeks ago now, Grace asked that we please assemble a list of candidate ELU-to-ELL questions instead of flagging them. I compiled such a list based on people’s nominations, but it is a bit hard to find in this posting. So here is that list of migration nominees again, nearly all of which ar...

discussion migration closed-questions

Reposted on the ELL meta.

That may help. I don’t know where to find dead women.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Upvoted. Perhaps there are questions which could go in the opposite direction, too.

tchrist

I know that normal mods get their site’s meta questions posted to their inbox, but I don’t know what happens when it is only the community liaison officers like Shog and Robert who are the de-facto pre-pro-tempore mods on the betas.

But maybe they will notice that posting better on the ELL meta instead of it getting lost on ours.

@AndrewLeach Yes, I’ve seen a few of those.

If none of the workarounds were appropriate in that case (and that is unlikely), I’d just say to hell with it and write Your reader is [...], but he’s a busy person. — Barrie England 6 mins ago

I am somewhat amused to read “to hell with it” from Barrie.

But the frustration is perfectly sympathizable.

KitFox

17:31

Hoi.

@tchrist Stop asking. Just stop. It will be a long time.

chatkillah

punches buzzwords

prepares for killstorm

KitFox

hugs @chatkillah

What's with all the random starred crap?

8

MετάEd

@KitFox It looks to me like everybody's cold.

KitFox

Well, @Mr.Shiny and @tchrist anyway.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I should note that I didn't star those messages

chatkillah

17:41

@KitFox squee

Sorry.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

so don't blame me. It's the Russians that are cold. They have the coldest temp on record in antarctica and wanted a new record so they also created a new record for siberia.

KitFox

I think the Russians are warm. Hot, even.

@chatkillah Is that good squee or bad squee?

Did I violate your personal space?

chatkillah

@KitFox good squee!

tchrist

@KitFox "Stop"? Please show me where I asked before yesterday, and I will retroactively stop asking things I never asked before.

chatkillah

17:59

passes out cake

tchrist

I sit beside the fire and think of all that I have seen

KitFox

@tchrist Then pay attention to where I've told everyone else a multitude of times that this is not going to happen anytime soon. Please.

The cake is a lie.

In case you didn't know.

falls asleep

tchrist

@KitFox I am not actually omniscient. If you have a reference, then I can learn. If you expect me to read everything everywhere everytime, then you might do better directing such prayers to an omniscient deity, since the rest of us shall forever fall short of your expectations and because you will get the same response from God as from us.

KitFox

16

A: What's the status of ELL relative to ELU

Patience. The ELL site is not out of private beta yet, so it would not be possible to migrate questions there at this point, and even if we did, the OPs wouldn't be able to access the questions until the beta is opened to the public. Even then, when ELL Beta is public, migrating questions from ...

Rafael Cichocki

hah! - was looking for a word in programming, and it came to me finally while writing my question here: generic functions - I had forgotten how you called functions that behaved in such a way...

KitFox

18:12

Jan 15 at 16:08, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Is there going to be a migration path from ELU to ELL?

@RafaelCichocki lambda!

chatkillah

laytorz

KitFox

@tchrist You have yet to fall short of my expectations.

Matt Эллен

18:28

@KitFox those are anonymous functions. generic functions are more like function sum(of T)

KitFox

I like lambda.

pouts

Matt Эллен

well, they're sort of anonymous, there not exactly the same. I'm not equipt to explain the difference

KitFox

But I thought you did have a penis.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox me to! I use them all the time

@KitFox yes, but that's only useful in arguments with other people, not with myself.

Cerberus

Greetings.

KitFox

18:31

What do you think? Should that be my new avatar?

Kisses for everyone?

Matt Эллен

you say "kisses" and I can finally see what it is :D

I thought it was some weird pie

aedia λ

Hola!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus hulloes

Hola!

aedia λ

I also thought it was a confusing pie chart

KitFox

Turn your head sideways. It's me.

Matt Эллен

18:33

yay!

then it should definitely be your avatar

Cerberus

Yo!

KitFox

There's a really good shot of me on the show announcement, but I am reluctant to post my real face.

Cerberus

Do it!

You can delete it immediately after.

Matt Эллен

what show?

Cerberus

You know you want to.

One sec, I need to get another cup of tea.

Okay, I'm ready.

Matt Эллен

18:43

ooo

fancy!

Cerberus

Hey!

I saw it for once split second, then it disappeared!

KitFox

I wish I could go. I went to one in NYC several years back.

@Cerberus You said you were ready.

Cerberus

Yes yes but...then I got distracted.

'Twas a bumbling bee.

stared at screen

Can I blink now?

I'll just not blink, just in case.

KitFox

Sorry. Too late.

Cerberus

I didn't blink!!

It wasn't there!

KitFox

18:45

It was up for a whole minute.

Cerberus

But I was pung elsewhither!

KitFox

You said you were ready. Hardly my fault if you weren't.

Cerberus

sad faces

I was ready for a minute after I said it.

Ohhh cute!

That your bathing suit?

KitFox

It's a red bra and a pink petticoat.

Cerberus

The other girl isn't you, is she?

aedia λ

18:48

@KitFox Sounds exciting! It's too bad you can't go to the show.

Cerberus

Nice.

KitFox

@Cerberus No, and I don't recognize her either. It's been ten or more years since I modeled for Victor though. He's had lots of models since then.

@aediaλ I know. Wicked bummer.

Cerberus

OK.

KitFox

I had magnificently long hair back then.

KitFox

19:08

tries to remember long hair

aedia λ

dunks face in coffee cup and ponders why she always stays up too late on the weekends

KitFox

Because you were celebrating your birthday?

aedia λ

I suppose that's what happened to last weekend :D

Robusto

A Russian colleague writes in our issue-tracking software: "Some of my questions have been reloved with additional info." I don't quite know how to take that.

aedia λ

It wasn't the best weather, but I had a great time at the nearby city's night out thing Friday and then going out and taking pictures in another area on Saturday.

@Robusto Well, at least his questions weren't left unloved?

'Cause that would be sad.

Robusto

19:14

He also spells bullets "buulets" ...

I presume he is trying to mimic a Scottish accent.

KitFox

Mama, it wasn't my bullet.

Hi @Rob.

Robusto

@KitFox Howdy.

KitFox

Holy shit, does the conference call really need to be that loud?

aedia λ

HOW ELSE AM I SUPPOSED TO PRETEND I'M DOING SOMETHING USEFUL

KitFox

And it's a recent college graduate. Female. So you can imagine how every sentence ends like a question.

And her voice is high-pitched.

Robusto

19:17

@KitFox That's women for you.

KitFox

Interviewing for a job.

@Robusto Well. Unusually high-pitched. In that "I have no confidence" kind of way.

Robusto

Which is itself a confidence game of sorts.

KitFox

I'm feeling smug about how together I was for the meeting this morning.

That increases my judgmental nature today.

Cerberus

Good, good.

KitFox

19:34

What the hell is it called when you want a join that includes all the records from both tables?

aedia λ

A mixtape?

KitFox

Hahaha.

I guess I just have to union two queries. I thought I didn't have to.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:50

@KitFox full outer join?

KitFox

That's what I was thinking, but I guess Access won't do that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

snort

KitFox

i no rite?

It apparently also cannot handle case statements.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So did you get the charging orb?

►

Armando says a mat is matter.

I generally like his reviews.

- Orb sticks to your phone when you pick up up, won't come off.

- You need to place your Nexus 4 carefully on the Orb or it might not charge, whereas you can just throw it on the mat without looking.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No. For one, I don't know if it's worth the price. For two it's not avail in Canada.

Cerberus

19:56

Good.

I would get a mat instead.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I read the opposite. People found it harder to get it to charge on a mat, whereas they couldn't get it not to charge on the orb.

Cerberus

Odd.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I like how the orb tilts it. So your phone can be visible.

Cerberus

Perhaps it depends on the mat.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Probably.

But at least the orb should be consistent.

Cerberus

19:58

You can told the mat, if you put it onto some sort of ramp?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus yeah but the orb is much smaller. I am thinking of my bedside table: a mat, esp tilted, would be too obtrusive.

Cerberus

Armando doesn't say that the Orb requires careful placement btw, but I read that somewhere else. (Why do I even read about chargers for a phone that I will never possess!?)

The mat is about the same size as the phone?

Slightly broader.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Oh, most mats I've seen are bigger.

Anyway I probably won't bother

until I have more devices that can charge wirelessly

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…