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00:11
> Mac and cheese is often considered unhealthy because it's typically high in calories, saturated fat, and sodium, primarily due to the combination of processed cheese, butter, and refined pasta, providing little nutritional value beyond scant protein and a few vitamins, making it a food best consumed in moderation as part of a balanced diet.
@GratefulDisciple Yeah, class is not really about money. Well, maybe to some degree in the sociological sense, but not in the ordinary sense.
@tchrist Well, of course.
But that doesn't tell you whether it has any added flour/starches.
It's not as though "fettuccine Alfredo" should be though of as substantially different in most of these regards. Sure you can make it from scratch not using processed cheesefood, but it's still just another starchy excuse to get salt and fat into you without anything substantial.
I didn't really think about health.
I just don't like how supermarkets use starches in sauces to replace good ingredients.
A cheese sauce should not contain flour.
@Cerberus Of course directly showing off that you have money makes you a vulgarian.
00:22
@Cerberus Corn starch is fairly commonly used for a thickening agent.
And that one is a version made with "trick pasta" that's had substantial amounts of pea protein used in the base dough used to make the dried pasta.
But it certainly is still an ultra-processed food. It's probably ok to eat a little of it now and them. It's not a meal in and of itself though.
And that's one of the higher end boxes. The generic kind is far worse.
Any box-based cheese sauce is apt to make any cook weep.
@tchrist Mmm, Annie's.
The good, respectable boxed mac and cheese.
image from here.
Whether you consider tapioca ickier than corn starch is up to you.
It runs you a buck a box or so. It's very cheap.
That is not very starchy!
00:30
No, not very.
I saw a recipe that said plenty of flour.
None of these is using whole grains. It messes up the pasty consistency of the pasta too much to do so.
@tchrist This seems to have more starch.
@Cerberus Where?
I don't really see a reason why you'd make pasta with cheese using just cheese and egg.
00:32
The corn starch vs the tapioca starch?
Well, I suppose there is no percentage.
So who knows.
What do you mean cheese and egg?
That's a more expensive one that isn't dehydrated sauce power.
Egg???
Well, I think original carbonara is probably made without cheese? But here we normally make it by simply adding cheese and egg to pasta.
Oh I somehow misread you as alluding to egg noodles, which is why I asked that.
00:35
Oh, true carbonara does have cheese, just as we make it.
Yes, being able to make basic cheese sauce from scratch is something anybody should be able to do. It just takes a moment.
So I really can't think of any scenario where I would add flour to a pasta sauce.
But anybody should be able to make the five mother sauces. Mac and cheese would start with a béchamel.
Yeah I never really got béchamel.
I, mean, I have made it, but I don't get why you would ever pick that.
It's just the base.
In French cuisine, the mother sauces (French: sauces mères), also known as grandes sauces in French, are a group of sauces upon which many other sauces – "daughter sauces" or petites sauces – are based. Different classifications of mother sauces have been proposed since at least the early 19th century. == Current use == The most common list of mother sauces in current use is: Béchamel sauce: White sauce, based on milk thickened with a white roux. Espagnole sauce: Brown sauce based on a brown stock reduction, and thickened with a brown roux. Ingredients typically include roasted bones, bacon, and...
00:37
So I wouldn't pick pasta with a starchy sauce for my little party.
@tchrist I know, but still.
> Béchamel can be used as the base for many other sauces, such as Mornay, which is béchamel with cheese.[18] In Greek cuisine, béchamel (σάλσα μπεσαμέλ) is often enriched with egg.[19]
We just call it a/the "white sauce" if we're not being too fancy.
> In reference to carbonara, he cites Luca Cesari, a food historian and author of the book A Brief History of Pasta, who said carbonara was “an American dish born in Italy”.


The dish is believed to have been first made by an Italian chef in 1944 for American soldiers in Riccione using bacon and eggs rations. “Italian cuisine really is more American than it is Italian,” Grandi told the Financial Times.

Parmesan cheese, from the Emilia-Romagna region, dates back to the 12th century and Grandi believes Italian immigrants, probably from the Parma area, started producing it in Wisconsin in t
huh!
> He also claimed tiramisu and panettone were relatively recent inventions and that most Italians had not even heard of pizza before the 1950s.
I grew up on that style of sauce made from scratch for things like tuna casserole or various pasta sauces.
Or "cream chip beef on toast", standard poorman's fare.
You could do the same with tuna and peas starting from that white sauce. You'd serve it on toast or mashed potatoes or noodles.
> One often repeated story is that it was invented by an Italian cooking for American soldiers in World War 2. The servicemen took fond memories of the dish with them when they went home, leading to a spread of carbonara to new continents.
00:44
@jlliagre Of course many local dishes were never known outside the region.
Romano is certainly tastier than parmesan for this.
I like both, but I prefer parmigiano.
But I may be unconsciously preferential to ovine or caprine cheeses.
P.S. We call it pecorino.
Chipped beef is a form of pressed, salted and dried beef that has been sliced into thin pieces. Some makers smoke the dried beef for more flavor. The modern product consists of small, thin, flexible leaves of partially dried beef, generally sold compressed together in jars or flat in plastic packets. The processed meat producer Hormel once described it as "an air-dried product that is similar to bresaola, but not as tasty." == Uses == Chipped beef could be used to make frizzled beef (creamed chipped beef or SOS in military slang), or with eggs. == Availability == Chipped beef is served in many...
It was, and is, called "shit on a shingle" for servicemen.
This may have been more commonly eaten sixty or seventy years ago than it is today. Can't say.
There was a lot of processed meat back then. CornED beef hash was another common one. Meat from a tin.
Not hash with corn in it. :)
00:51
Looks fascinating.
Corned beef, bully beef, or salt beef in some Commonwealth countries, is salt-cured brisket of beef. The term comes from the treatment of the meat with large-grained rock salt, also called "corns" of salt. Sometimes, sugar and spices are added to corned beef recipes. Corned beef is featured as an ingredient in many cuisines. Most recipes include nitrates, which convert the natural myoglobin in beef to nitrosomyoglobin, giving it a pink color. Nitrates and nitrites reduce the risk of dangerous botulism during curing by inhibiting the growth of Clostridium botulinum bacteria spores, but have been...
Stuff that keeps well. Used for military rations, etc.
Pretty terrible for you.
I must have eaten it but I don't remember what it tasted like.
But cheap and shelf-stable.
@Cerberus Salty.
I might like it as long as the texture isn't too soft.
I could never in good conscience recommend processed red meat as an habitual lifestyle choice. It's not as bad for you as drinking motor oil, but it's got so much against it healthwise that you'd have to be willfully ignorant to risk all that.
And most if not all of those things are still true even without all those qualifiers, too.
They're just injury added to injury added to injury in the triple whammy that is processed red meat.
01:03
It is somewhat carcinogenic, probably.
But probably far less so than e.g. alcohol...
Word of the day: spline
yeah - also called a sliding joint,often found in propshafts or driveshafts in a car where suspension is involved.
I hate it when a boringly common word is the WOTD.
like "hair" or "chew" or "walk"
@tchrist That would be creamed chipped beef on toast.
@Robusto Yes. We had it all the time growing up, especially in the 60s.
That's what my father called it, and he was in WWII.
01:16
Yeah, my dad was Air Force.
I don't know that that's why we ate it. We ate a lot of weird things back then.
He also said yellow mustard was called "baby shit."
@tchrist My uncle was USAAF. Dad was artillery.
My great-uncle was Navy artillery in Korea. I should ask him about these things.
@tchrist "The Navy gets the gravy and the Army gets the beans."
01:19
I should pay him a visit this weekend anyway. It's close to Christmas.
@tchrist Where does he live?
@Robusto Denver. Subsidized federal housing for vets. By himself.
@Criggie How does that relate to 'spline' as used in computer graphics?
@tchrist Yeah, he must be close to 100 by now.
Closer than you are. 92. Still drives. Terrifies us. :)
01:21
Haha.
01:38
@jlliagre no idea - clearly the computer graphiologists stole the word.
02:06
I read only a part of it back in the 2000s, and forgot to return the cover of the book to the English language library
It had this cover
@CowperKettle I remember liking that book a lot.
But I couldn't tell you much about what was in it.
A hot dog plays a very small role.
I should download the audio and listen to it
It may have been semi autobiographical.
Or not.
Either way it is very imaginative.
My semi autobiographical novel about a beneficent bajillionaire who eradicates disease and poverty and lived by everyone except his pet corgi.
Guess which part is the part that is not autobiographical,
Oh...I forgot to tell you the plot. The protagonist (who everyone loves) solves all the murders in a small English village.
The twist is that all the people murdered totally deserved it. So even though the protagonist (who everyone loves) is the prime suspect by the police (because, come on, what is the one common factor among all those murders? It's -that- guy!)
...they kinda let it slide because he's such a likeable guy and all those people murdered deserved it.
And when he 'solves' each of these murders (which we realize are really done by him) he pins it on someone who is also not a nice person and totally deserves to be convicted of a crime they didn't commit.
02:21
@Cerberus It's related to Breaking Bad TV series.
Anyway, that's not the plot of 'A Confederacy of Dunces' but that would be a good title for my semi autobiographical novel.
@Mitch The lovely village of Davos.
@alphabet A string of murders in the alpine skiing village of the Yorkshire Downs.
Where CEOs of multinational AI startups are strangled in their sleep by 'accidentally getting a down comforter stuffed down their throats.
That happens a lot at ski chalets.
@Vikas Well I know nothing about that.
Then you're missing out some memes!
02:38
I rarely watch television or films.
You're missing a lot of culture
@Mitch hahaha
Haha
Supposedly the best writers of our age are writing scripts for Netflix.
Names written in water.
@Mitch Hardly.
02:43
BTW should I say "missing out" or "missing out on"?
But I know you like to poke the elephants.
That's what I've heard. Anybody promising in script writing for theater or for movies is snapped up by the streaming studios.
@Vikas With an object, you can't use out without on.
@Cerberus "meme" is the object in that sentence?
In your sentence, some memes would be the object of the praeposition out or possibly of the phrasal verb missing out.
02:45
@Vikas Childish cartoonish posters are not culture; they're ephemeral sloganeering by the excitables. Who cares?
I don't know about novel or short story writers in English.
That would require reading.
What is the perception for writers in Dutch?
Dec 3, 2023 at 5:46, by tchrist
Oct 16, 2020 at 16:39, by tchrist
Aug 1 '13 at 16:42, by tchrist
> In 1984, Huxley added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” ― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
@Mitch In the Spanish-speaking world, they carry far greater weight than in the English-speaking world. There, all educated people know who the great living writers are. Here, such widespread awareness is next to non-existent. But we've been bumplepuppied for far too long here.
Dec 3, 2023 at 5:46, by tchrist
Oct 16, 2020 at 16:39, by tchrist
Aug 1 '13 at 16:41, by tchrist
> Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions".
@Mitch How do you mean?
02:51
Dec 3, 2023 at 5:46, by tchrist
Oct 16, 2020 at 16:39, by tchrist
Aug 1 '13 at 16:41, by tchrist
> What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us.
Huxley was right.
Nobody reads now.
Not even at university. They just cannot bring themselves to do it.
@Cerberus Where are the best fiction writers? Novels, short stories, plays, TV movies?
I guess throw poetry in there.
Then again, how many people read literature a hundred years ago?
Essayists? Non-fiction? Belles-lettres?
@Mitch I'm still not really sure what you mean, but I don't think anyone would say scripts for television are actual literature, at least none that I would know of.
The Nobel Prize in Literature (Swedish: Nobelpriset i litteratur) is awarded annually by the Swedish Academy to authors for outstanding contributions in the field of literature. It is one of the five Nobel Prizes established by the 1895 will of Alfred Nobel, which are awarded for outstanding contributions in chemistry, physics, literature, peace, and physiology or medicine. As dictated by Nobel's will, the award is administered by the Nobel Foundation and awarded by the Swedish Academy. Each recipient receives a medal, a diploma and a monetary award prize that has varied throughout the years. In...
02:58
@Cerberus I don't understand what you mean by this? Are you saying writing was better back then? Or just that people read more a hundred years ago?
@Mitch They weren't boobtoobed yet, that's for sure.
03:18
@Mitch I mean that most people don't read novels in any age.
@Cerberus Ok got it
TL;DR: He saw the constellation Orion and thought it was drones.
All I'm saying is that I heard (from people whose opinions on such things seemed reliable) that of young playeights, the better ones were quickly snapped up by television show producers.
(rather than say movie producers or play producers)
Who decides what makes someone "better"?
@alphabet funny story, I remember when I was a kid and me and some friends were running around the neighborhood when it had become dark and we thought this one collection of lights in the sky were UFOs.
They weren't moving but you know, how are we supposed to know how UFOs move.
@Cerberus I don't know. How do you judge quality of writing?
At that age I also didn't understand how the coin got in your ear after it disappeared from your uncle's clenched fist.
I mean you'd feel it if the quarter was in your ear, right? Maybe it's just nestled lightly in your ear folds.
03:38
@Mitch A great question.
@Mitch All Greco-Roman lyric poets are better classified as songwriters. Certainly that's their closest real modern equivalent.
"Most pop song lyrics are worthless drivel," you say. But I'm willing to believe 99% of Classical lyric poetry was also worthless drivel, and even some of what's survived is trash.
@alphabet I think you got that backwards. David Lee Roth is an avatar of poetry akin to Horace.
@Mitch If it's GPT generated, it's ........
@Cerberus meat grilled inappropriately generates carcinogens yes. I dunno the health impact of them.
@alphabet I mean if you skip the saucy bits of 'Canterbury Tales' you just got some unrelatable stories for a long walk.
03:51
Too much red meat in general, well, gout, obviously, but also dysregulation of lipid profile.
@M.A.R. All those cavemen holding brontosaurus hams over a fire inside a cave with bad ventilation, no wonder few have made it.
@Mitch well cavemen didn't eat too much of anything. That's why we're taller than most of them.
@M.A.R. haha losers
This whole civilization thing happened because people were hungry.
Imagine the new generation of cavemen being "uh, daaad, that's so laaaaame. I'm gonna build a nest instead"
I think it was more complicated than that.
-Really- hungry.
03:55
And then in the blink of a geological eye, we're building kilometer-tall buildings
Kids these days don't want to work.
I think all the people in 80-story buildings are fleeing from land-based predators
Like Luigi Mangione!
@M.A.R. Shoulda stayed on that Joe Rogan all-meat diet.
@Mitch they wanna plant seeds in the ground and wait for it to grow. Which is dumb. "Son, your grandfather and great-grandfather were all hunter gatherers, and it's a great family tradition!"
Or was it Jordan Peterson? Or both?
03:59
Wasn't it Peterson's daughter?
> “I can also, strangely enough, tolerate vodka and bourbon.”
> Jordan Peterson explained how Mikhaila’s experience had convinced him to eliminate everything but meat and leafy greens from his diet, and that in the last two months he had gone full meat and eliminated vegetables.
@Cerberus this is bonkers. Yes of course people's diet is correlated with their class but it's usually about how diverse people's diet gets as they become richer. Richer people eat more healthy food because they eat more fruit and veggies than minimum wage workers who have gotten used to frying some starch or grabbing a burger merely to satiate their hunger every day. IOW, the richer you get, the more time and thought you spend on what you will have.
So a survey just putting some dishes in front of you will simply boil down to personal opinion about the food shown and won't reflect class differences. A rich person likes how burgers taste as much as a poor person, but only the latter doesn't expend any effort to eat anything else.
Also what the hell is gold-plated ice cream.
@alphabet yeah this was the moment I said, "okay this guy is just full of shit, I won't waste any more energy hearing what he has to say anymore"
04:24
@M.A.R. Yes, but also processed red meat like sausages.
It is on the list of the WHO.
@alphabet Some is just cherished because it is old. But most is good, it has depth and elegance.
@M.A.R. But surely there are correlations between those personal opinions and social class. If you grow up eating more expensive (and generally upper-class-coded) foods, you're more likely to like them as an adult.
@M.A.R. Well, class is not mainly about money.
And, yes, what you say is true: people who are richer than average or of higher class will eat more varied foods than the lower classes.
But there are indeed also cultural differences between what different classes will choose to eat.
For example, things that are trendy will generally not be chosen by the upper class.
Whereas the flashiest foods are chosen mainly by the lower classes.
There's also a whole aspect of signaling in all this, i.e. not wanting to eat food that makes you seem too low-class. Trump, of course, inverts this and goes around eating McDonalds and steak with ketchup, to make himself seem like part of the working class.
04:40
But, again, normal people are not so obsessed with this.
Of any class.
It is more like preferences and tendencies, which are among a number of other factors that determine what people choose.
And why the right wing attacked Obama for requesting a burger with Dijon mustard.
@M.A.R. It's not even ice cream. It's just ice.
@Cerberus I don't know...that gold encrusted lobster bisque looks pretty trendy but only affordable by the rich.
@Mitch Most richmen are not upper class, of course.
Gold-coloured crap on your food sounds very lower class.
Could be nouveau riche.
04:56
@Cerberus I wouldn't say all of it is cherished. That poem by Strato categorizing teenage boys' dicks is certainly no more intellectually sophisticated than the typical Cardi B song.
I merely repeated your suggestion.
Vark (also varak Waraq or warq) is a fine filigree foil sheet of pure metal, typically silver but sometimes gold, used to decorate South Asian sweets and food. The silver and gold are edible, though flavorless. Vark is made by pounding silver into sheets less than one micrometre (μm) thick, typically 0.2–0.8 μm. The silver sheets are typically packed between layers of paper for support; this paper is peeled away before use. It is fragile and breaks into smaller pieces if handled with direct skin contact. Leaf that is 0.2 μm thick tends to stick to skin if handled directly. Vark sheets are laid...
The gold I can afford.
 
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06:23
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08:37
Strands #292
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11:57
@Cerberus This reminds me of a Bertie Wooster episode featuring Aunt Dahlia and the French chef Anatole she employs, (I think she and Bertie are upper class who are definitely not nouveau riche), who endearingly relish and very expectant of a dinner featuring both elaborate & refined (not sure about trendy, but new to them) and very tasteful French cuisine (so not signaling like the ridiculous gold leaf on ice) that only Anatole could create.
Talking about upper class, I guess one sign is that they are rich enough to have their own psychoanalyst to talk about their angst of boredom / meaning (like in Woody Allen movies), maybe because they don't have immediate life challenges which necessitate the lower classes to work their butt off.
BTW I have high regard for the psychoanalyst profession; came across this article today where she talks about the clinical psychologist's code of ethics, interference from her public image (created against her will), and her personal heroic struggle to care for her growing child.
12:13
@GratefulDisciple What? Ridiculous?? All the frog legs, pains au chocolat, pork guts, snails, beef langues and baguettes I eat are gold plated! ;-)
@jlliagre I'm sure Anatole didn't use any gold filigree / sprinkling, just great French cuisine against British boring selections. Babette's Feast is another movie featuring great splash of French food (but realy tasty, not just looking great). No gold there either :-). But I trust that you're only joking?
 
1 hour later…
13:39
@jlliagre Gilt by association.
And don't you dare make me sic.
@MetaEd Surely being shorn of his antlers dispirits many a heavy hart.
13:55
@GratefulDisciple I remember how, for the longest time before I'd actually read Wodehouse in the original, I didn't realize her name was actually Dahlia because I heard Hugh Laurie pronouncing Day-leer or some such silliness. And I still wonder why its namesake Anders Dahl died so young at age 38, he of Observationes botanicae circa systema vegetabilium divi a Linne Gottingae 1784 editum, quibus accedit justae in manes Linneanos pietatis specimen fame.
#travle #737 +0 (Perfect)
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https://travle.earth
@tchrist Sounds like you're ready to appreciate Finnegans Wake.
@Robusto Poor old Michael Finnegan!
@GratefulDisciple Joking? Me?? No! Everything I wrote is true (but the gold thing).
@tchrist I'm the other way around: I read the books first, and only with Hugh Laurie's enactments I came to see the silliness of the Drones Club, how Aunt Agatha was so (justly) severe on him, and why he was fearful to be matched with the "sporty girl".
@jlliagre That's what I mean: not the gold thing.
@GratefulDisciple You read it right :-)
14:09
When I'm driving I'm listening to an audio book called *The Wide, Wide Sea," about James Cook's final voyage, and although the author is American, the narrator is British, and every sentence, every phrase, dips and crests like a wave. It's kind of soporific.
@jlliagre BTW, I grew up on frog legs, but cooked the Chinese Indonesian way, either like this or fried. I have yet to try the French version.
I also had smoked beef langues. The Chinese pride themselves to use any parts of pork including pork guts. The only one I haven't tried is French snails cuisine.
@GratefulDisciple a/k/a escargot
@Robusto Yup, another 2015 NY resolution?
@GratefulDisciple Butter, flour, garlic, parsley, salt & pepper.
14:28
By the way, I stopped eating lamb brain after the mad cow desease thing.
@jlliagre Yummy. One of these days, when planning a dinner outing with my family, I would suggest a good French restaurant to my wife and order this and escargot.
It's interesting how the woman in the middle is totally conscious of the camera.
@jlliagre Quel dommage !
#WhenTaken #297 (20.12.2024)

I scored 793/1000🏅

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https://whentaken.com
14:55
@Vikas 1) better than many high schoolers 2) not factually reliable.
@GratefulDisciple Ah I don't know this series. Refined is not necessarily linked to a class, I would say.
Style-wise it is generally considered 'sycophantic' (always attempting to please) unless diretd specifically for a certain style and then it's close to target but not that great (i.e. recognizably in the area of the target style but stilted).
@Mitch High schoolers can also write as good as that by cheating/copying.
> (2015) A Working Group of 22 Experts convened by the the cancer agency of the World Health Organization's Monograph Programme classified consumption of red meat as probably carcinogenic to humans, and processed meat as carcinogenic to humans. — emro.who.int/noncommunicable-diseases/highlights/…
@Vikas what's going to come out of all this hulabaloo, foofaraw, kerfuffle, mess, is that the societal impact of genAI is that 1) it will replace a lot of jobs with slightly worse output but tolerable by the purchasers (but this will not be very impactful), 2) totally disrupt education because ... well whatever the reasons it already has, and 3) increase world energy consumption considerably (I can't say 'by 5%' or 'double' because the scale is not clear).
@Cerberus Anything about grilling?
15:08
Connections
Puzzle #558
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@Cerberus Very funny TV series, already in DVD, probably in Netflix (or a streaming service available in the Netherlands): Jeeves and Wooster. Yes, being "refined", acting "refined", or having "refined" taste is not a criteria in itself, but good indicator, I think.
everything causes everything.
@MetaEd and reciprocally.
@Robusto @jlliagre Is eating escargot as hard as this Pretty Woman movie clip suggest?
15:11
The entire universe came together to make your toast.
@GratefulDisciple Yes, it happens all the time as he said.
@jlliagre So that's not just a mere "face-saving" word that someone in a high-end restaurant is trained to say?
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@Cerberus the data available is mechanistic and epidemiological. IOW, we theorize that there are ways that cooking red meat (because no one is having raw meat) generates carcinogens. We have also seen that in large populations, a diet consisting of more red meat has been associated with higher rates of, I haven't checked, but maybe colorectal cancer.
Maybe like learning how to use chopsticks for the first time. Still remember how hard it was to pick up some dim sum items using chopsticks.
15:15
@GratefulDisciple No, they are specially trained to catch flying food all over the place.
@GratefulDisciple I dunno, I wouldn't eat it.
@jlliagre Glad I got that covered, so I can enjoy my meal without worrying about causing hazards to other patrons ;-)
@M.A.R. Huh? I ate a steak tartare yesterday.
It's unclear 1) if different ways of cooking red meat affect the generation of carcinogens, so we can't confidently say boiling it is better than frying it, and 2) we have seen the generation of PAHs for example in cooked meat. But it's a bit premature, jumping to the conclusion that red meat causes cancer.
And if it does, it's certainly not as bad as, say, smoking.
@jlliagre you will die. Unless you're immortal.
@M.A.R. I suspect you are right.
15:21
@Robusto Looks like I have to, if I aspire to become upper class :-). It's labeled as haute cuisine here, where "snails are consumed by grasping the shell with a pince à escargot and extracting the snail with a fork called fourchette à escargot. At least it may not be raw like steak tartare (which I probably wouldn't try).
Uh shouldn't have numbered that. Changed my sentence halfway through. Oh well
@GratefulDisciple First get the money, then worry about the cuisine. Eating a snail while poor is just a wasted effort. Plus it annoys the snail.
@Robusto Agreed. Anyway, I don't think I ever will be upper class or even enjoy hobnobbing with the upper class. Just want to enjoy some of their refinements, especially in music.
You don't have to be rich to enjoy music.
@Robusto That's the beauty of it. Plus, in the original social settings, musicians and composers were poor and mere employees of the upper class.
OK, I'm off to "get the money". Have a good weekend everyone.
15:26
@Mitch I don't know exactly, but I have always read that grilling generates carcinogenic stuff. No idea how bad it would be.
@M.A.R. Or as alcohol, right?
Cooking oysters as they show in the class test is a sacrilege. That spoils the taste. Oysters need to be eaten alive, raw on the half shell.
Normally, yes.
But I think there also exist a few classic dishes with cooked oysters?
I don't know, I have never seen cooked oyster either.
@Cerberus Not popular here.
@M.A.R. Correct.
Nor anywhere.
> (September 2023) The evidence is strong for the association between red meat and breast cancer and most gastric cancers. The presence of aromatic hydrocarbons, heterocyclic amines, and heme iron in red meat has been found to be behind tumorigenesis. — pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10577092
15:31
@MetaEd Toast is pretty good, but if that's the analysis. it's pretty disappointing.
@jlliagre Eating a lamb with its mother's milk is sacrilege. But a croque madame -with- bacon? Awesome!
@jlliagre Taste? You're not supposed to chew the oyster, so any taste is a vague afterthought.
@Cerberus Battered deep-fried oysters are prevalent in coastal areas of the American Deep South, particularly Louisiana. You may hear of these as "Southern-fried oysters" or "Chicken-fried oysters", not just fried oysters. They are regularly stuck into a sliced baguette for a sandwich, must like the Mediterranean peoples do with fried, battered squid rings. Absolutely any possible food item can and quite often _is_ cooked this way in the Deep South, all indistinguishably beige.
@Mitch I don't eat oysters by intravenous therapy.
> Les Français sont les premiers consommateurs au monde d'huîtres fraîches, avec deux kilogrammes par an et par habitant.
15:39
That's me!
@M.A.R. 1) Numbering things badly has never bothered me, b) it's all a bunch of words anyway, iv) some other thing.
@tchrist OK, right, but I was rather thinking of something more classical.
@jlliagre I sure hope not... but don't start giving people ideas.
@Cerberus Kilograms? Oysters are counted by the dozen.
Not in France!
15:40
@Cerberus That's kind of a lot.
Depends on whether these kilograms include the shell.
It's not like the oysters can try to run away.
@Mitch Indeed!
@jlliagre Good question.
I suspect with shell? Since they are not normally weighed without?
@tchrist Yes, the only time I had cooked oysters was in Louisiana.
> Elles ne se gobent pas mais se mâchent.
So you're not supposed to swallow them but chew on them.
> Les huîtres peuvent être dégustées crues vivantes ou cuisinées.
Can be eaten raw or cooked.
15:45
"alive"
Dead or alive.
Alive, of course.
A drop of lemon juice to check whether they move.
> Certaines personnes préfèrent gober les huîtres. Ce n’est pas la meilleure façon de les manger. En faisant cela, elles passent à côté de leur goût puissant et iodé. Pour profiter pleinement de toutes leurs saveurs, il faut les croquer et les mâcher. Mais si vous avez du mal avec la texture de l’huître et préférez les gober, rien ne vous en empêche ! Le principal est que vous passiez un agréable moment en dégustant ces crustacés.
Yeah I don't see sources saying you're supposed to swallow them without chewing...
@Cerberus Exactly.
Two kilos roughly means 24 oysters. That would mean French people eat oysters between two and four times a year, that's not a lot. I'm well over that.
Voracious!
So you like them a lot?
And you chew them properly?
@GratefulDisciple I got news for ya, bub. Most musicians today are still poor.
15:51
@Cerberus Yes, and yes.
Good for you!
@Cerberus IIRC, this word means you want something a lot or like it a lot. Maybe something like voracious reader?
@Vikas Yes, it basically means having a tendency to eat a lot.
Cf. devour.
@Cerberus I've read devour also. Read both words in some book.
From Latin vorare, "swallow, eat greedily".
So voracious is similar to greedy, but more about eating.
15:56
Connections
Puzzle #558
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟦🟦🟦🟦
🟨🟨🟨🟨
🟪🟪🟪🟪
@Cerberus I have the impression greedy sounds pejorative while voracious is less judgmental.
@Cerberus Vo rah ray, oh oh oh, oh oh!
@Cerberus Depends on the topic. You can be a voracious reader, for example.
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