English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:10

@Robusto ?

It’s not Keillor singing; it’s a men’s glee club.

Robusto

Well, I loathe Prairie Home Companion and Keillor makes my skin crawl. Just saying.

tchrist

Slitty sicker. That wasn’t the point.

Massahooshits isn’t voting to legalize pot, just the “medical” thing. WA, OR, CO are voting for full legalizations.

Robusto

00:36

I never said they were voting to legalize it outright. Only to legalize medical marijuana. It's the next step. It's already been decriminalized here.

Cerberus

00:53

@tchrist Oh, funny.

An American version.

tchrist

Isn’t it just?

Cerberus

Never heard it with any singing, actually.

tchrist

Me neither.

Cerberus

I can't find a Norwegian version.

@tchrist Full in all respects?

Including growing and selling?

Then you will be ahead of us!

tchrist

Apparently.

Cerberus

00:56

They should tax it, though.

tchrist

Not sure on the selling; it requires some sort of licence for that, I think.

Cerberus

But you can't tax it as highly as alcohol or cigarettes.

tchrist

But you can certainly grow your own.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

tchrist

This is a recent story in a local paper about Colorado marijuana legalization.

Amendment 64 would legalize use and possession of up to an ounce of marijuana for people over 21 years old. People would also be allowed to grow up to six marijuana plants in their home.

The measure legalizes marijuana sales at specially regulated retail stores but also allows communities to ban those stores. Public consumption of marijuana would not be allowed.

Cerberus

01:02

Oh...

That's hardly full legalisation.

It is about the same as what we have, except no public consumption.

Where do the stores get their stuff?

That is the big problem here:

they're only allowed to buy it piecemeal, supposedly from many small sellers (but in reality there are mainly giant, illegal plantations that split up their shipments).

Somehow the plantations always tap illegal electricity.

tchrist

The full wording is much more complicated on the sellers/providers.

The current system is problematic on the supply side.

The new one would be, different. But I don’t know how.

But people can finally grow their own. For some folks, that’s enough.

Others want to be able to stroll into a shop.

That they will be able to do, too.

There is some talk of requiring a Colorado state ID.

Too much pot tourism from other states otherwise, or so they fear.

Here, this isn't bad. I may grab his sheet music to play. @Reg @Rob

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Cerberus

We have so-called weed-passes, only to be registered to a valid ID in your home town.

The drug tourists keep coming: their circuit has just moved underground here.

And so there is more trouble.

So weed passes / IDs are a bad idea.

All the mayors of the large cities are planning not to use them (weed passes are now only compulsory near the borders).

tchrist

I was worried about that.

Robusto

@tchrist Try this one.

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To look at Liszt as an old man it's hard to tell that he was the original rock star, a man who fucked his way across Europe.

tchrist

I can’t play that. I could play the Grieg transcription.

The beginning of it doesn’t seem unplayable. But it’s Liszt. I know better than to try.

Robusto

01:14

I've fooled with the beginning. But when he gets to the coruscations of thirds &c. I throw up my hands.

tchrist

I see what you mean. I’ll toy with Rocky for that period.

Robusto

Listen especially to the part that begins around 4:00. It's lovely, playful, and amazing.

tchrist

I know my own limitations. Sigh.

At 3:25 now.

Robusto

The pianist in that recording is exceptional.

tchrist

Do your kids play?

Robusto

01:17

sigh

tchrist

Figured.

Robusto

I tried to get them to, but it didn't take.

tchrist

Kids just don't seem to care about learning piano anymore.

You cannot make anyone.

Robusto

No. You can't.

tchrist

It used to be that all gentlemen learned keyboard.

Yeah, this is beyond me. I hear that quite surely now.

Robusto

01:19

If you really want to make yourself dizzy, listen to the C# minor.

tchrist

This is the sort of thing that drives men mad.

Robusto

►

tchrist

Chopin said to start each day with a P&F from the WTC. I fear I often step away afterwards. :)

That isn’t true. I play some Chopin and Beethoven, and various others. But the hard stuff (of which some of that certainly counts) requires Actual Work.

Robusto

One of my favorite Bach pieces to play is the Italian Concerto.

tchrist

I know someone who said they would marry anyone who could play that piece.

I am 100% serious.

Robusto

01:21

Believe it or not, the middle movement is the hardest part. To make it lyrical is ungodly hard.

Aaaand let's not forget the Goldberg Variations.

tchrist

Ug, yes. Even the last movement of the Moonlight challenges me.

(The first movement doesn't count.)

Robusto

Playing a Bach P&F is like taking a mental shower.

tchrist

I still only have Gould’s GB in my head always.

Robusto

God, was he good.

tchrist

But a different shower for different days, for different moods.

Your HR is very nice.

Robusto

01:23

Liszt's. Not mine.

Liszt was an underrated composer. Underrated because he was such a virtuoso.

tchrist

You mean he was more valued as a performer than as a composer?

Mozart and Beethoven were first performers, and very special ones.

Robusto

Something like that. He was so flashy and brilliant as a performer that people simply assumed his compositions would be all surface and no substance.

tchrist

They seem to have lasted.

Everyone considers me an antiquarian because I play.

Robusto

You find that even today. When you hear a pianist playing Liszt as if he were trying to win a Guinness World Record with the tempo, you know they're not taking the music seriously.

tchrist

That isn't right.

Have you heard Gould’s WTC?

Robusto

01:27

Listen to how tastefully Campanella plays the bravura parts of the C# minor.

@tchrist Yes, of course. I have all the Gould recordings.

tchrist

The 2nd C#m fugue is at q=160, and it is in 12/16.

I can do it at 120, but it gets out of hand after that.

Robusto

Well, if you can pull it off and still make music there's nothing wrong with 160. I can't, of course.

tchrist

Even 120 I have to work up to with real work.

Mostly only the 1st page sounds good.

At that speed.

Robusto

I wish I could get all my old vinyl recordings in digital format.

tchrist

I have 11 different artists doing WTC. I use hardlinks for a BWV-oriented view. It is very interesting to compare those.

Mahnax

01:30

Hello.

tchrist

Hi Max.

pokey(tchrist)% pwd
/juke/Music/Genres/Serious/Johan Sebastian Bach/Keyboard/Well-Tempered-Clavier/BWV
pokey(tchrist)% ls BWV873-WTC2-04\ in\ C-sharp\ minor/
Andras Schiff--Prelude and fugue in C-sharp minor, BWV 873.ogg      Jeno Jano--Prelude and fugue no. 4 in C-sharp Minor, BWV 873.ogg
Edwin_Fischer--Prelude and Fugue in C-sharp minor, BWV 873.flac     Kenneth Gilbert--Praeludium & Fuga (a 3 voci) cis-moll BWV 873.ogg
Friedrich Gulda--Prelude no.4 in C-sharp minor, BWV 873.ogg         Ralph Kirkpatrick--Prelude 4 BWV 873.ogg

Mahnax

Jack White is doing a livestream tonight.

tchrist

I never got much vinyl.

Who is Jack White?

Mahnax

Jack White (musician)

Jack White (born John Anthony Gillis, 9 July 1975), often credited as Jack White III, is an American musician, singer, songwriter, record producer, multi-instrumentalist and occasional actor. He was best known as the vocalist, guitarist and pianist of The White Stripes until they split in February 2011, as well as a vocalist and guitarist for The Raconteurs and the drummer of The Dead Weather. White released his debut solo album, Blunderbuss, on April 24, 2012. He is ranked No. 70 on Rolling Stone's list of "The 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time". White's popular and critical success...

Robusto

The White Stripes, etc.

tchrist

01:32

I ripped everything in ogg. This makes people annoyed.

Robusto

The Raconteurs.

Mahnax

Yeah.

I really liked The Raconteurs.

Robusto

@tchrist I stick with MP3 so I never have a problem playing it on anything.

tchrist

Those are all store-boughten, not random Internet downloads.

There was a reason I used ogg, once upon a time.

I think it was because files were smaller for "equiv" levels.

But at high levels, it doesn't matter.

Robusto

►

tchrist

01:33

I started with ogg level 8/10, then went to 9/10.

Robusto

This recording sucks technically, but the performance is great. Ralph Kirkpatrick was a student of Wanda Landowska, IIRC, who re-introduced the idea of playing Bach in true Baroque style.

tchrist

I am sure that you could not hear the difference at 320 nominal bit rate.

Robusto

I rip with Lame -alt-preset-standard, and it's good enough.

tchrist

At least, I can’t. I’ve stared at wave forms for both, and yes, it does not look quite the same, but I'll be damned if I can hear the diff.

Robusto

The important thing is VBR.

160 VBR sounds better than 320 CBR.

tchrist

01:36

I am not much of an audio snob. I have big KEF speakers halfway up the vaulted cathedral speakers, and can send like 80gb into them.

Robusto

@tchrist When I want to do serious listening I fall back on my JBL L112's.

tchrist

Nominal bitrate: 256.006000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
        title=Fugue No.4 in C-sharp minor
        artist=Johan Sebastian Bach
        album=The Well-Tempered Clavier II (Glenn Gould)
        tracknumber=08
        genre=Baroque
Vorbis stream 1:
        Total data length: 3427941 bytes
        Playback length: 1m:55.599s
        Average bitrate: 237.227751 kb/s
Logical stream 1 ended

That is at level = 8.

Robusto

A friend of mine had the JBL S8R speakers, which were overkill. As in, they could damn near kill you. They could play the organ pedal notes without doubling. You couldn't hear them, exactly, but you could feel the house vibrating on pitch.

tchrist

Just switched to the Gould Italian Concerto. God he sounds like he’s on speed compared to the others.

Oh right. He was. :)

Robusto

Hehe. Did you ever see the film 32 Short Films about Glenn Gould?

tchrist

01:41

Ayup.

Robusto

You can always tell a Gould recording because A) it's so musical and B) you can hear him humming one of the voices.

tchrist

The "musical" thing is certainly an interesting observation.

But the humming, yeah. Pisses some folks off.

Do you hum when you play, Rob? :)

Robusto

Not if I want to enjoy myself.

tchrist

If you really want to annoy someone, hum when they play. :)

Robusto

Plus I'm never at the point where I'm not conscious of technique. In order to hum you have to be able to get lost in the music, like Gould did. Technique was entirely transparent to him, I believe.

tchrist

01:47

His brain was optimized for such things after a (short) lifetime of dedication.

Changes the wetware firing.

Robusto

@tchrist Well, if you think about it a little it makes sense. A lot of pianists don't seem to understand the music they're playing.

tchrist

And wiring.

Depends why they are playing.

Robusto

If they're playing for any other reason than that they love the music and have a special relationship with it that they wish to impart, it fails.

tchrist

I am being hounded to come away from the computer.

It’s too solo.

I should go play that Grieg transcription I downloaded instead.

That’s also a solo thing.

Never managed to have a good enough friend who played to sit down and play a duet with.

Had one who played well enough once (well, still do), but doesn’t really read very quickly. Too much work.

Very gifted though.

Not the same thing.

Oh boy. More 9->10 badges for me. Thanks, @Rob.

Robusto

@tchrist It's too hard to find a matched pair of pianos anyway. But playing with others is grand. My main instrument was flute, so I got to play a lot. I liked orchestral playing best.

tchrist

01:53

Tell Cerb. :)

Really though?

Robusto

@tchrist Really though what?

tchrist

Flute. I only ever played cello. Not as much group call for that.

Robusto

But it was easier to get into an orchestra with that instrument. More jobs, anyways. Only three or four jobs for flutes.

But these days I'm happy just to play piano for my own enjoyment. You can't really do that with flute. Not enough music.

tchrist

I think Reg is learning/doing/playing guitar.

May have done.

I mean, as a supplement to piano.

I don’t know if he is doing it for social reasons.

Robusto

Who knows? I was never much of a guitarist, though I could play bass all right.

tchrist

02:00

Double bass viol, or bass guitar?

Robusto

The subject was guitar.

tchrist

Yah ok.

My default "bass" is the bowed one.

Well, that isn't true.

My default bass is the one under me.

Er, pitchwise.

I’m a tenor.

But I knew you didn't mean that kind.

People who can finger guitar melodies instead of just strumming chords impress me. Too easily. Too much garage band.

Robusto

I'm a tenitone. I don't have the high notes for tenor and my voice is too white to be baritone. Sucks.

tchrist

I’m a lead, actually, in barbershop.

2nd tenor.

I really am not very good above Fish. I can do it, but it's a whatever.

Which puts me at a concert baritone, but I have no modem. Low C and that's it.

s/modem/bottom register/ && sleep 28800;

Pratik

02:17

May i ask a question ?

tchrist

Yay, more Englighteneds for me. I really need to send my benefactor flowers or something.

@Reg Hey look, it’s an override/overwrite question!!

1

Q: When to use override and overwrite

My intention is to use on the following sentence: The Administrator have the right to ___ the user time slot for the venue A inside the online system. So, which word would be suitable: override or overwrite or are there more suitable words?

word-choice

Too tired. Must retire.

Pratik

What is the use of being+p.p in the below statement ?Despite the project first being proposed over ten years ago..........

tchrist

You may ask a question, and I can call spirits from the vasty deep. I'm off to bed now. Sorry.

MετάEd

eenie meenie chili-beanie – the spirits are about to speak!

I missed a music discussion. Damn.

Cerberus

@Pratik Despite is a preposition, so it needs to go with a noun, not a clause.

Like despite my magic, I was killed.

Pratik

02:26

so, being proposed is noun ?

Cerberus

Being is a gerund, and it functions as a noun.

Despite being faster, she lost the battle.

So it means "despite the fact that she was faster" here.

Robusto

Being is also a noun. You are a human being. I think.

Cerberus

Let's not complicate things.

Robusto

Aw, you're no fun. Again.

Cerberus

Always.

Pratik

02:30

means " the fact that she was " replaced by "being"?

Robusto

TV time. We're having a hurricane tomorrow and I may work from home. Woo-hoo!

Cerberus

@Pratik Yes.

Pratik

ok

Cerberus

@Robusto Yay! I hope you won't lose power, though.

Pratik

thanks a lot for help

its_me

02:31

Hi, this is about countable and uncountable nouns - (Image shows) a bowl with soup and there's the word Soup - So, what am I supposed to call it? countable or uncountable?

Cerberus

Don't hesitate to ask more questions if needed!

Pratik

ok

Cerberus

@its_me What do you think? Can you add the indefinite article to "soup" here, without changing its meaning?

its_me

No

Cerberus

Right. Then it is used in an uncountable way.

Uncountable soup = the substance soup, like water.

its_me

02:33

Can't simply say a soup - I'd rather say a bowl of soup - so, should I simply cal it uncountable?

okay

Cerberus

Countable soup = a kind of soup, as in the restaurant had several delicious soups on the menu.

its_me

Ah, much better explanation

Cerberus

So it can be countable in some contexts, but it is uncountable in this example of yours.

its_me

okay, thanks!

Cerberus

No prob!

MετάEd

02:52

♫ Soup, soup, countable soup. Soup of the evening, countable soup. ♫

Cerberus

I'll have a soup of the day, please.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

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MετάEd

03:07

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You can thank me later

So apparently some Christians believe that if you invoke Psalm 109 verse 8 you can maybe get God to kill someone for you.

I tell ya. The Bible is awesome. Every time I open it up and shake it, something shocking falls out!

I wonder what other spells are in there!

MετάEd

03:35

Don't get me started.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How delightful.

A return to prehistoric voodoo.

I can't tell you how surprised I am that this should be part of certain Christians' faith.

Because I'm not.

MετάEd

Somebody ought to publish all of Nortonn S's questions. Because it could be titled Nortonn Anthology.

David Wallace

04:25

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Seargent Martha Nash found Psalm 109 in her copy of the New Testament? Doesn't this seem a little far-fetched?

Mahnax

04:56

I answered a question exactly one year ago yesterday, and I got the accept yesterday.

I am amused.

David Wallace

08:15

@Cerberus Don't forget to mention the ellipsis "despite that she was faster, she lost the battle". This may be a regionalism, but I consider it acceptable. It belies your assertion that "despite" requires a noun, not a clause.

@Cerberus I'll have one tomato soup, one pumpkin soup, and a bread on the side please.

Hah! You have double my rep!

its_me

11:37

Peter and Paul have gone to church for / (blank) worshipping

should there be a for or there needn't be anything? anyone?

RegDwighт

11:48

Depends on what you want to say.

its_me

@RegDwighт The question says, "look at the following sentences with 'to infinitives'. Now write a meaningful sentence changing the given 'to-infinitives' to 'infinitives'."

The sentence I have is: Peter and Paul have gone to church to worship.

RegDwighт

Worshipping is not an infinitive.

Not sure what the point of this exercise is.

its_me

@RegDwighт I think the question simply asks me to remove the to from the infinitives in sentences, and make them meaningful

RegDwighт

Yes, but I don't understand how a bare infinitive helps anyone in that sentence, or fits in there at all.

its_me

Let me give you an example: Thomas has learned to swim. > Thomas has learned swimming.

RegDwighт

11:58

Swimming is not an infinitive.

If your excercise book says it is, burn it and throw the ashes away.

its_me

That is what I am saying. The question is wrong. It meant to say "remove the to from the to-infinitives and make the sentence meaningful."

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…