English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

CowperKettle

00:07

Dünyanın en büyüğü! Eyfel Kulesi’ni bile kaldırabiliyor...

►

Cerberus

Impressive indeed.

@CowperKettle Does this say 10,000 megatonnes?

I think that would be a bit much.

Oh, I see the Eiffel Tower weighs 10,100 tonnes.

Stonehenge weighs less than 2000 tonnes.

alphabet

00:23

@Cerberus A lovely reminder of home.

Cerberus

Fun.

alphabet

@Mitch Why do I feel they might be more welcoming of American refugees than of Syrian ones?

Cerberus

I talked to a Syrian today.

Guess what he said?

Just two hours ago.

Mitch

@alphabet they don't look too different?

Common heritage?

I mean come on the Roman Empire wasn't that great. They just had great press and marble quarries.

@Cerberus what did he say?

Cerberus

@Mitch It's not pretty, are you sure you want to hear it?

Mitch

00:33

@Cerberus Nice.

Cerberus

About American elections:

Mitch

@Cerberus Does it follow community standards? Just post it with quotes, they can say anything

Cerberus

> The Zionist lobby determines who succeeds, not the voices of the people as people think.

> They still have the power to control elections. They control what we eat and drink, the global economy and the potential of peoples. Can't they control the election? Obama and his entourage control the joints of decisions, do you think Biden or Harris? 🤣🤣🤣

Mitch

@Cerberus I'm more tolerant of that view from Arabs than from Americans. But not much and tolerant in the sense that it's abhorrent but I'm not gonna bother saying anything if they're Arabic.

Cerberus

Well, he lives here in Holland.

Mitch

00:36

@Cerberus yeah that's pretty cliche

Cerberus

Was praesumably granted asylum.

13 mins ago, by alphabet

@Mitch Why do I feel they might be more welcoming of American refugees than of Syrian ones?

I mentioned it in reply to this ↑.

Mitch

I've heard Americans say that sort of thing and it's pretty gross

But also doesn't bear up under any scrutiny.

Cerberus

Yeah but those Americans would never move to Europe.

Mitch

If the zionists could do that then they could have done a lot of other stuff

Cerberus

And the average American is far less extreme than the average Syrian.

alphabet

00:39

@Mitch I dunno, seems about equally harmful whoever it's coming from.

@Cerberus Granted, in the Netherlands a full 38% of the population thinks that Jews have more loyalty to Israel than to their country. The vast majority of them are, obviously, not Muslims.

People forget that, among the non-Muslim population, antisemitism is much worse in most of Western Europe than it is in the US.

The Netherlands is only marginally worse, fortunately. (And better than the US on some of those.)

But compare the 2015 results of that survey from France with those from the US. It is definitely not just the Muslim population. "Jews have too much power in the business world" got 16% support in the US and 33% in France.

I'm no fan of the ADL generally, but I don't think their survey methodology is the issue here. Of course the percentage of Muslims who agree with this statement is much higher than the percentage of non-Muslims. But given demographics, most of the antisemites in those countries are not Muslims.

Michael Rybkin

01:11

@Robusto Thank you very much.

@Cerberus Thanks for further elaboration on the point.

Cerberus

@alphabet What about it?

That is no conspiracy theory.

It is a vague statement, and an opinion that may or may not be true.

When you go to hardcore conspiracies or discrimination, like my quotation, you will see a difference.

And the same applies to a range of different topics, like discrimination against gays, blacks, women.

So, yeah, there is a difference between kinds of immigrants.

Similarly, there would be a difference between immigrants from the hard Dutch Bible Belt and immigrants from Warsow.

Dannyu NDos

You mean Warsaw?

Cerberus

Err yes.

CowperKettle

03:46

bulla

Noun: bulla (plural bullae)

(biology, medicine) A blister, vesicle, or other thin-walled cavity or lesion, as:
(biology, medicine) (usually and especially) Such a blister that is more than 5 mm in diameter.
Coordinate terms: vesicle, vesicula
(archaeology) A clay envelope or hollow ball, typically with seal impressions or writing on its outside indicating its contents.
(historical) In ancient Rome, a kind of amulet or boss.

(4 more not shown…)

Verb: bulla (third person singular past indicative bullaði, third person plural past indicative bullaðu,...

And bulletin comes from bulla, a bubble.

CowperKettle

04:11

I'm having depressive rumination for hours while I work in food delivery. I should find some way to spend time with people in real life, I mean talking, meeting up. I don't know how to go about it. I spend all free time alone.

Vikas

05:58

Looks like Trump is winning, at least on Twitter.

alphabet

06:09

The donkey saw his shadow; four more years of Mr. Batshit Dictator. Yikes.

Sahaj

@Vikas Even with >95% probability on NYT polls.

Vikas

@Sahaj Yes. But I've never followed US election before, so I don't know how accurate these are.

Cerberus

06:28

@alphabet My condolences.

alphabet

Further proof that this country would be much better governed by us raccoons than by you humans.

@Cerberus I'll probably be fine, unless he goes full Orban. But a lot of people are definitely screwed.

But "going full Orban" certainly remains a possibility.

(And that "probably" is really doing a lot of work.)

Race won't officially be called until tomorrow, but the outcome is pretty clear.

Cerberus

06:50

@alphabet Oh, I'm glad you see it that way.

American institutions are far stronger than those in Hungary ever were.

@CowperKettle Pretty cool.

I didn't even know a ballot was always secret.

@CowperKettle Hmm what does a bulletin have to do with a bubble, one wonders.

@CowperKettle Could you join a running group?

There were times when I used to run with friends every Sunday, it worked well.

We'd have drinks after.

alphabet

And I am proud that our dear Commonwealth voted for Harris 62-36, the second highest margin in the country according to current results.

Cerberus

Well done.

I just don't get why so many people cast the wrong vote, it is hard to understand how they could all make the same mistake...again.

think_meaning_builds

Fear.

He came out on day one threatening to take revenge on his enemies if he lost.

Cerberus

Hmm.

think_meaning_builds

He has the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers on his side.

alphabet

07:05

@Cerberus Inflation and the border, mostly.

Cerberus

@alphabet Hmm and why do they think Trump can solve inflation?

alphabet

@Cerberus They don't; they just blame Biden for causing it and think that (before the pandemic) the economy was pretty good under Trump.

think_meaning_builds

The South will Rise again.

Cerberus

@alphabet An odd thought.

@think_meaning_builds And reinstitute slavery?

think_meaning_builds

Nah, that's too dramatic.

The power of the American dollar will keep the world economy enslaved.

Cerberus

07:18

But for how long?

think_meaning_builds

Until the next great depression, I guess?

Cerberus

Let's hope not.

alphabet

Y'know what the one good part of having epilepsy is? If Trump gets us into some stupid war I'll be disqualified.

Have we considered bringing back that "no gays in the military" policy?

Though I doubt even Trump is dumb enough to actually start a war, unless it's the kind of BS that Harris would've started also.

Cerberus

Do we know how he feels about Taiwan?

alphabet

07:34

@Cerberus Not enough steak and ketchup.

Realistically, he'll mostly focus on trying to look tough and arrogant. If China invades Taiwan? Who knows. But who knows what Harris would've done either.

Cerberus

@alphabet OK but he won't declare things such as, "let Taiwan fend for itself" before anything happens?

alphabet

@Cerberus Quite possibly. Or he could go to war because he hasn't had enough cheeseburgers and is feeling cranky.

But I'm not sure what Biden or Harris would do either, if an invasion actually happened.

Cerberus

@Vikas This was what a shop voluntarily offered as a warranty for a refurbished phone. But, yeah, I think that is also what you'd normally be offered on a new phone.

@alphabet Quite possibly, he would announce beforehand that he won't defend Taiwan?

alphabet

@Cerberus Hard to say.

Cerberus

OK.

But, yes, it would have been uncertain what Biden or Harris would have actually done in the event of an attack. But at least they would have kept up the threat towards China.

alphabet

07:43

Anyway, it's 2:40 AM. Not looking forward to tomorrow's headlines. Farewell!

Cerberus

Yeah.

Sleep well.

Maybe skip the news tomorrow?

I'm really glad I didn't go to any election event.

SmokeDetector

08:06

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in body, potentially bad asn for hostname in body, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title (77): what is digital marketing?‭ by mohmmedrinshad‭ on english.SE

M.A.R.

10:42

Hmm, I love the smell of sanctions in the morning

@think_meaning_builds nah probably not.

I mean that's always there, sure, but this time I'm fairly sure it was the lesser evils looking pretty weak.

@Cerberus short memory spans.

M.A.R.

10:56

Also, possibly, Russian and Chinese troll armies.

Iranian trolls were probably trying the opposite.

tchrist

12:05

Overnight and unlooked for I've had about four inches of freshfallen snow, going on five and still lightly falling on this, the darkest day of the year, in a deep, hard freeze that has finally finished off all fair and gentle things that had prospered over our preternaturally long summer: an omen, a portent, and a metaphor for our own collective future, cold and cruel.

Laurel

Can anyone make me feel better about the news?

jlliagre

@Laurel No third term for Trump!

tchrist

intones the Missa pro defunctis for Ukraine and Taiwan

@Laurel The majority voted not out of love for the brute but out of frustration with their own lot under the status quo. All they were saying is that they hate their own world that they know, not that they welcome his that they cannot possibly imagine. That's what elections are always, and only, ever about, throughout all the ages of history.

Vikas

12:40

Do you also have electronic voting system? We have EVM (ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINE) where we just press a button for the candidate we want to vote for.

Only that way you can count votes quickly.

tchrist

They also spit out paper versions for verification.

It depends. Many of us do mail-in voting.

Laurel

@Vikas Where I am we vote on paper and that's scanned into a machine, just like a standardized multiple choice test

Vikas

tchrist

You can never trust an apparently dead snake with its head yet attached to stay dead forever: In his house in R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu lies dreaming.

Vikas

@Laurel Like this right?

And this is what called a ballot?

Also, mail-in voting also have same thing? And scanned later?

tchrist

12:47

@Vikas Yes. Electronic systems without possible paper audits are untrustworthy.

Vikas

@tchrist Here, losing leaders always blame like "EVM was hacked".

Or malfunctioned.

tchrist

@Vikas It is either foolish or fiendish to place one's trust in such, depending on the motivation.

Bad things happen in the dark.

Laurel

@Vikas yeah that's exactly it

I've never done a mail in ballot so idk what that's like

Vikas

👍🏾

Robusto

@Laurel I can't even

sigh

@tchrist I can't even read the news beyond the headline today.

tchrist

13:10

@Robusto Do self care. Play the piano. Clean house. Spend time with pets or small children. Mute all media completely. Visit random acts of kindness upon complete strangers. Rest.

Vikas

I don't understand why less people voted in this election, compared to 2020.

tchrist

Pathetic apathy.

Vikas

I thought far more people are going to vote.

tchrist

Most people do not vote. Only the angry vote.

Vikas

When you have mail option, it should be used.

tchrist

13:20

What we're seeing now is a bereavement response, like that of actual grief. My own community, both Boulder County and the larger neighboring Denver County, voted 4 to 1 against what happened yesterday, so just imagine how widespread this is. I have no friends or family who are not deeply shocked and angered by all this, which may be its own indicator of how riven we are become.

Vikas

13:31

> Dear Donald and Melania Trump,

Congratulations on history’s greatest comeback!

Your historic return to the White House offers a new beginning for America and a powerful recommitment to the great alliance between Israel and America.

This is a huge victory!

In true friendship,
yours,
Benjamin and Sara Netanyahu

Laurel

13:43

@tchrist I wish I could say "I have no family who aren't angered by this" but actually I know some are the loud type of Trump supporters :/

jlliagre

I have yet to find anyone around me who isn't deeply saddened about the outcome.

Robusto

May 8, 2017 at 4:01, by Robusto

@tchrist The danger is that he will act without thought, empathy, or restraint.

Here we go again.

think_meaning_builds

A twice impeached convicted felon gets re-elected.

Vikas

13:58

@think_meaning_builds So is he going to pardon himself now?

think_meaning_builds

Most likely, yes.

Then he'll make good on his promises to go after his enemies.

Robusto

Goodbye Blue Sky

►

alphabet

@M.A.R. At least with the tariffs you'll be in good company this time.

think_meaning_builds

For enough money pink floyd can play at the opening ceremony of the construction of the Wall on the Mexican border.

Mitch

@tchrist Some people -love- the winter: the snow, the frost, the icicles, the new landscape of white, Christmas, snuggling up near a warm fire, kittens playing with balls of yarn, cinnamon wafting through the air or through a slice of pie. Some hearty exercise shoveling the driveway, a sense of order plowed through the blanket of quiet.

Those people are fucking commie-nazis.

alphabet

14:13

@Mitch I kinda like the winter, but I wouldn't if I had any driveways to shovel.

think_meaning_builds

Apparently 20 million less people voted this year compared to 2020

alphabet

Or cars to scrape ice off of.

Robusto

@Mitch I'm of the other persuasion. Why I moved from New England to the High Desert.

Mitch

@alphabet It's kind of a pain and, naturally, a worse pain the bigger the driveway and the more cars you got (cars add to the mental complexity of where to put them while you try to shovel snow off their rooves, even if they reduce some of the snow removal).

Robusto

What Trump’s Victory Means

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Mitch

14:18

That worst part of it all is that you do all this work pushing the snow somewhere else, and then it eventually melts, all that hard labor doing absolutely nothing in the longer term.

tchrist

@Mitch Putin Fimbulwinter.

Mitch

@Robusto OK so you're sane is what you're telling me.

Robusto

@Mitch I hope so.

Though this morning I ain't so fucking sure.

Mitch

@Robusto At least with respect to weather. Visit the snow all you like, the thrill of skilling and turning doughnuts in the iced over parking lot. But live with it? That's just denying reality.

Explains the Vikings.

But not why they stayed in Iceland though.

Those Vikings were just addled with frostbite.

alphabet

@Mitch Indeed. I grew up in the suburbs and had to help out sometimes. Now I enjoy the privilege of living in a tiny apartment.

Robusto

14:22

@Mitch Every once in a while we get "snow" and I do keep a snow shovel. But so far I haven't seen anything that's lasted beyond noon.

Mitch

@Robusto That's so cute!

Robusto

"I'd better hurry and shovel the driveway before the snow melts!"

tchrist

@Robusto My LÁ friends up at the Lab report this morning they are expecting 15–27″ through Friday.

alphabet

Good news: with Trump's climate policies, just two more years till winter no longer exists. /s

Robusto

@tchrist That's what they get for living high in the mountains.

think_meaning_builds

14:23

> how exactly Trump won. He may be, after all, only the second Republican presidential candidate since 1992 to win the national popular vote

Mitch

But, if it gives you even the slightest regret (I expect not), we haven't had a good snow since 2015. And 'Winter' starts later every year... inching past mid January now.

Robusto

@Mitch You have me to thank for that. In 2015 I said "never again" and moved away.

Mitch

Soon winter will be gone and our 'sun rooms' will be the whole house.

alphabet

@think_meaning_builds Bush did in '04, didn't he?

Mitch

@Robusto Thanks!

Robusto

14:24

You're quite welcome.

tchrist

@Robusto We probably won't see more than 8 more inches today atop the 5 or 6 already on the ground. But I haven't checked tomorrow and tomorrow's tomorrow yet: sufficient unto each day are the evils thereof.

think_meaning_builds

@alphabet I think so ...

Mitch

@Robusto If only that were the way things worked.

CowperKettle

Mitch

@CowperKettle Nice bike... safe riding over snow?

CowperKettle

14:28

@Mitch Yes, because I have studded tires

Mitch

I couldn't survive...my eyes water up so bad in the cold that I can't see. I can't bike in <10C.

and really, I just don't in < 15C, I have to stop every other mile to blow my nose.

a mask helps but then my face gets all sweaty

@CowperKettle What do you do for your face in the <0C weather?

tchrist

14:50

No worries: salt brine still melts till 0F.

alphabet

Spirit Airlines refuses service to raccoon in act of blatant discrimination

Mitch

@tchrist I'm sure that's great for the tires, but my face is a little too sensitive to be slathering it with brine before a cold windy bike ride.

tchrist

@Mitch Lunar galoshes have you none?

CowperKettle

@Mitch I wear a balaclava, sometimes a couple of balaclavas

And I wear glasses, regular glasses for astigmatism

Maybe there are electrically-ventilated and heated masks for the face.

alphabet

@Mitch I recommend one of those tube-shaped neck gaiters you can pull up to cover your face.

CowperKettle

15:02

Electrically-heated winter goggles for snowmobiles

market.yandex.ru/…

Vikas

Oh no! Winter is coming.

tchrist

@Vikas Winter is come, at least here.

Vikas

@tchrist I can chill one more month, then 'chill' ;)

Robusto

> To the last syllable of recorded time.

MetaEd

15:22

I remember an old computer game that generated Shakespeare sonnets by selecting lines at random from his actual sonnets.

that was a common line.

Robusto

15:36

@MetaEd I remember staying up all night playing text-based dungeon crawlers online. And this was before the Internet.

On a 300 baud modem.

Robusto

16:23

@tchrist We're supposed to get about 2 to 2.5" over the same period.

Mitch

16:46

@tchrist Naw, I, or rather my mom for me, have never needed to protect my shoes from water while visiting the moon.

@CowperKettle Similarly to the moon, I haven't had to concern myself with Balaklava since 1852. To be fair, not even then.

@CowperKettle A simple low-tech balaklava sounds appropriate though...I'll look into that. One that's electrically impelled seems like a little too much.

@alphabet 1) even better than a scratchy wool balaklava.

but 2) those words sound really goofy together "tube-shaped neck-gaiter"

It's one phoneme aay from a terrible medical condition.

It's zero phoneme's away from a dangerous vanity pet.

@Robusto In a cardboard box in a ditch next to the highway.

alphabet

@Mitch If you have one of those and a good beanie, you get about as much coverage as a balaclava, but it's much, much easier to adjust or remove it when the temperature shifts.

Lambie

17:24

Have Americans stopped guzzling booze? [warning: joke and gold star to who guesses it]

Mitch

17:36

@Lambie I'm considering taking up heroin addiction.

But to be fair, that's always been an option.

Ya gotta have a hobby, right?

wait... I don't like needles.

It's like intentionally bringing a cactus into you home.

What are the usual alternatives to heroin where you don't have to inject it?

:66575128 If anything has taught us anything at all, following rules is for losers.

Vikas

Tuco Tight Tight Tight Yeah

►

Mitch

I realize it is in bad taste to be cheerful when... it is in bad taste to be cheerful, but where I am the weather is -awesome-.

@Vikas haha... I heard that that actor had a lot of personal anxiety after playing that role because it was so intense.

MetaEd

@Robusto Oh you and your fancy cutting edge technology. I had to make do with a 110 baud acoustic coupler.

Vikas

@Mitch In real life his personality is totally different.

Mitch

@MetaEd acoustic? you had acoustic? when I was a kid it was all through subtle changes in scent.

@Vikas Acting!

Vikas

18:02

> I said nothing about the construction that would not be true for 1000 others.

Could anyone please explain it?

alphabet

@Mitch There's that kind of fentanyl you spray under your tongue: statnews.com/2016/09/30/fentanyl-opioid-insys-subsys

Vikas

Nevermind, got it.

alphabet

Though I think the feds put a stop to that eventually.

Robusto

18:49

@MetaEd Oh yeah? Well, before the 300 baud modem I had to make do with a Dixie cup and some string.

And before that, smoke signals.

Lambie

Have Americans stopped guzzling booze? [warning: joke and gold star to who guesses it] Answer: Yes, they all have the DT's.

Mitch

19:15

@alphabet goddam government getting in the way of our freedoms

alphabet

@Mitch Put "legalize fentanyl" on the ballot in Colorado and see what happens.

Robusto

Fentanyl just makes it easier for junkies to commit suicide.

Robusto

19:45

#travle #693 +0 (Perfect)
✅✅✅
https://travle.earth

Wordle 1,236 4/6

⬛⬛⬛⬛🟨
⬛⬛🟨⬛⬛
🟨🟨⬛⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

#WhenTaken #253 (06.11.2024)

I scored 801/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 327 km - 🗓️ 13 yrs - ⚡ 165 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 11684 km - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 91 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 4 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 199 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 793 km - 🗓️ 15 yrs - ⚡ 146 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 5 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Daily Octordle #1017
3️⃣🔟
9️⃣🕚
🕛8️⃣
7️⃣6️⃣
Score: 66

Daily Sequence Octordle #1017
5️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕛
Score: 68

jlliagre

#travle #693 (1 away)
✅🟩🟥🟧🟥🟥🟧
https://travle.earth
Lost in Africa

Wordle 1,236 4/6

⬛⬛⬛⬛🟨
⬛🟩⬛⬛⬛
🟨🟨⬛⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

CowperKettle

20:31

Do not wake gently into that good Monday;
Sleep on, sleep on and let's pretend it's Sunday.

MetaEd

2

I found the meaning of the word credential: something that gives a title to credit or confidence But I am still confused what role credit has. Is it noun or verb? How to deal in similar situations to distinguish noun and verb?

syntactic-analysis

this looks like a practical English-language learner question ... in short "as an English learner how do I distinguish nouns from verbs". migrate to ELL?

jlliagre

#WhenTaken #253 (06.11.2024)

I scored 813/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 4 km - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 191 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 12568 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 98 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 38.7 metres - 🗓️ 12 yrs - ⚡ 179 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 1248 km - 🗓️ 5 yrs - ⚡ 160 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 372 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 185 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Cerberus

20:50

@MetaEd Hmm it seems to have been intended mainly as an ELL question.

But an EL&U answer about distinguishing nouns from verbs could be quite apropos here.

alphabet

21:01

@MetaEd Maybe, but if there's a decent answer already I see little benefit to migrating it.

The point of migration is that it puts a question in a more suitable location where it's more likely to receive good answers; if it's been answered well already, there's no benefit to moving it.

MetaEd

there's already question with a very in-depth answer helping someone identify a noun as a noun. Maybe there's one for verbs also?

27

Q: How can I prove a word is a noun?

When I read a sentence, I can identify nouns. But now I need to give proof that they are indeed nouns, and that is where it goes wrong. I can think of one or two things sometimes (like combining it with an adjective), but that is not enough proof. So my question is, how can I prove in multiple ...

nouns syntactic-analysis parts-of-speech

also related:

1

Q: Syntax - Giving proof something is a subject

So I'm trying to figure out how to provide proof that something is a subject of a sentence. I know to prove something is a noun, you can put determiners in front of it, and pluralize it (if it's a count noun). For verbs, you can inflect it. For adjectives, you can scale it with modifiers like "ve...

syntactic-analysis subjects

alphabet

@MetaEd Those are all good questions, as the length of the top answer to the "How can I prove a word is a noun?" one suggests.

MetaEd

21:17

@alphabet yes ... especially the one with the long answer as you said. This might be the real answer to the ELL question I posted first.

MetaEd

21:27

it's kind of a problem that we have a million questions of the form, is "this word" a verb in context, is "this word" a noun in context, is "this subject" a subject in context, is this an adverb, is this an adjective, etc. etc. so the answers are often very context-limited and don't answer the general case.

Laurel

@alphabet Do we have one for all parts of speech? There are also some exotic categories that probably justify an answer (eg, idk, whatever categories people are trying to shove adverbs into)

MetaEd

@Laurel I'm going to say we certainly don't. I can't even find a general Q/A for "identify a verb".

but we are fortunate to have a very detailed well written "identify a noun".

alphabet

@MetaEd That's not necessarily a reason to close them; even if we had a post to explain the general rules, applying them to particular cases might still not be straightforward.

Are pronouns a kind of noun? H&P say yes.

Cerberus

@alphabet I am surprised.

MetaEd

@alphabet I'm not going there -- I'm trying to figure out how to best help the ELL above.

Laurel

21:37

@alphabet The best definition I got for pronouns is that they're irregular nouns

MetaEd

@Laurel speaking as a he/him, I'm certainly irregular sometimes

Cerberus

Why is he not enough?

Laurel

@Cerberus AHA I ANSWERED THAT

Cerberus

@Laurel You could say that; but it is not very specific.

Laurel

2

A: Why do people use all 3 components in their gender pronouns?

The three pronoun format (e.g., "he/him/his") is an obvious and hard-to-misunderstand way of communicating a person's personal gender pronouns. It is just convention, and even then, the two pronoun format (e.g., "he/him", dropping the possessive) is even more popular now. Just "he" wouldn't be ve...

Cerberus

21:41

@Laurel Oh, no!

alphabet

@Cerberus They also make some wild claims about which words are pronouns and which are determinatives. I think they say that who is a pronoun but which isn't, or something like that.

Laurel

@Cerberus But they're like not irregular in the way normal nouns sometimes are (like irregular plurals)

Cerberus

@Laurel You may be right, though the reasons given are strange.

alphabet

Since you can use which as a determiner on its own in e.g. "Which donut do you like?" but you can't do that with who, since "Who person do you like?" is wrong.

Cerberus

@alphabet It would seem odd not to categorise those two similarly.

@Laurel Irregular objective and possessive case they have.

Laurel

21:44

As an aside, I actually have seen the one pronoun form of specifying your pronouns. Some people on SE use it in their usernames.... hmmm... @Araucaria-Him

MetaEd

My preferred pronoun is "your highness"

alphabet

@Laurel Presumably because, if you see a pronoun in a username, you know that it's there to specify said user's preferred pronoun.

> As a male raccoon, my pronouns are he/him or it/it, with certain contexts favoring one or the other.

Mitch

My preferred pronoun is cowering at my feet.

MetaEd

@alphabet I would never "it" a raccoon, that's dehumanizing 🤪

alphabet

@MetaEd Sorry, you're saying "dehumanizing" is a bad thing? Is it because you see humans as superior to raccoons?

Cerberus

21:47

@alphabet Wouln't man serve the same purpose, without the infelicitousness?

MetaEd

@alphabet a complete dehumanizing might be great for raccoons

Mitch

Yeah man

Cerberus

@MetaEd Umm you are humanising there, bad! *deraccoonising

Mitch

I think deraccoonizing means something else for humans

MetaEd

except, of course, for the downstream dearth of human garbage

alphabet

21:49

@Cerberus Is it infelicitous? Certainly the purpose of the word "man" would be a bit confusing, and even "woman" is a few unnecessary extra characters in a username.

Mitch

On the internet no one knows you're a dog

Cerberus

How could the word man ever be confusing?

Criggie

"deracoonising"

Laurel

@Cerberus I don't think that's very clear, and your nouns may not match your pronouns. For example, there is no noun to tell someone to refer to a person as "he/they" or "they/she"

Mitch

Oh sure be southernhemispherist

Cerberus

21:51

@Laurel You can always use them when you need them.

MetaEd

@Mitch in the southern hemisphere no one knows you're a 6op

Laurel

People who use they/them (with or without another pronoun as an option) can be any gender. And non-binary people sometimes still use a binary pronoun

Cerberus

But just saying man/neither is so much less inelegant.

Or neuter.

alphabet

@Cerberus If you said "alphabet (man)" it might be a bit less obvious why you were saying that; your gender isn't immediately relevant except insofar as it tells people what pronouns to use.

Mitch

@Cerberus To be blunt, that's very inelegant.

Laurel

21:52

Plus a lot of people don't want to advertise the fact that they're non binary or whatever

alphabet

I have seen "nb" as an abbreviation for "non-binary" but that's definitely not very widely known.

Cerberus

Sorry but it looks like a hype to me.

Doing the new just because it's new and other people do it.

Mitch

@Cerberus There are many possible hypes

MetaEd

nothing is binary except binary. people are on a spectrum. some people don't know it.

Laurel

@alphabet I have too but I think only queer people would understand it, and even then only in the right context

Mitch

21:53

@Cerberus The new dance craze

alphabet

Generally it's polite to refer to people the way they'd rather be referred to; it's not like using one set of pronouns commits you to some deep metaphysical view on the nature of gender or whatever.

Cerberus

@Mitch If it is truly fun and only fun, then why not. But that is usually not the case with hypes.

Mitch

@MetaEd When I turned my phoe over to read that, it autoflipped and I got the same thing.

Laurel

@Cerberus One of my posts got a comment about someone who identified as non-binary (maybe they didn't call it that) in the 1990s

Cerberus

@alphabet Yes, but does it really have to be exactly, literally as prescribed?

alphabet

21:55

@Laurel Exactly. And the acronym for nota bene certainly hasn't died out.

Cerberus

Cannot one use one's own language to express the thing desired by the other person?

Laurel

@alphabet I certainly don't know anyone who's nota bene tho

@Cerberus Like what? There aren't so many good options for pronouns

Cerberus

@Laurel But does it have to be a pronoun?

alphabet

@Cerberus I mean, can you decide to pronounce someone's name differently, rather than pronouncing it the way they typically do or would prefer?

Cerberus

It is not a name.

Mitch

21:57

@Cerberus nah it's more like mispronouncing someone's name. The owner of the name hearing it pronounced wrong is very grating to the owner.

MetaEd

We do it to whole cultures. And to Doctor Seuss.

Cerberus

A pronoun is a pro-name; it is not a name.

Mitch

On the other hand, everybody else has to learn how to pronounce the name new for every other individual. But really, people tend to do that just fine.

Cerberus

Besides, I don't feel obligated to call Xi 习 even if I properly could pronounce it.

Nor do I feel obligated to call Henry IV of France Henri.

alphabet

It's not like this is some sort of purely progressive trend. Even very staunchly conservative publications consistently refer to Caitlyn Jenner with she/her.

Laurel

21:59

@Cerberus I mean everyone has a name but they're going to realize you're not using pronouns sooner or later because that's hella awkward the longer you talk. There's basically only three sets of 3rdPS pronouns so don't you think it's manageable?

Cerberus

I have no idea.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…