English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:16

@Laurel Of course.

2 hours ago, by Robusto

@alphabet As my gambler son would say, "That's loser talk."

@alphabet And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

GratefulDisciple

00:31

@Laurel I took the click-bait, but to my surprise I heard him to the end, and I agree with him: post election day, take action with friends to make our particular community a better place rather than waiting for politicians to deliver on their promise (which most likely not gonna happen in the first place). That is the real power beyond voting to stop us from worrying. Good advice, and he's doing what he preached.

Criggie

00:43

@Robusto I'm not even American, thank fuck !

Laurel

00:59

@GratefulDisciple I made it 36 seconds through the video, posted that comment, then had an ADHD and forgot to come back until later

The thing is, local initiatives aren't going to help when whatever medication or whatever is made illegal on the federal level or whatever happens. Local initiatives only get you so far. And I'm still going to look to the people halfway across the country and see how bad they have it and also feel bad

GratefulDisciple

@Laurel Make sense, he didn't seem to go anywhere in the beginning, just validating what everyone feels.

@Laurel That's true too. Doing something in the local community wouldn't solve everything, of course. At least when there's a local achievement we can really see, we feel better a little, like he did.

It's hard to stay positive.

jlliagre

@Robusto That potato reminds me this Astonishing picture taken by the James Webb Space Telescope, showing Proxima Centauri, the closest star to our Sun!

Aug 5, 2022 at 21:45, by jlliagre

Criggie

looks like a cookie

Robusto

@jlliagre Yup.

jlliagre

@Criggie Chorizo slice.

Laurel

01:22

@GratefulDisciple The local community is also filled with loud assholes lol

jlliagre

Daily Octordle #1015
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Daily Sequence Octordle #1015
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Criggie

01:45

@jlliagre mmmm slammi !

jlliagre

@Criggie Slammin' salami !

Robusto

@jlliagre Now, now, no slammin' salami in chat. This is not the Multi-Layered Intercourse room.

jlliagre

@Robusto Hmm, quelque chose m'échappe ici...

Cerberus

@jlliagre That is pretty impressive.

jlliagre

02:01

@Cerberus Astonishing, as they say.

Robusto

They might be giants.

Criggie

OR they might be polko pizzachetto instead.

Robusto

02:32

@jlliagre Qu'est-ce que tu ne comprends pas ?

jlliagre

@Robusto Nada, lo he entendido :-)

Robusto

@jlliagre Tu funcionas de maravilla.

jlliagre

@Robusto jajaja

CowperKettle

03:34

What is the best music player for Android? I want to listen to audibooks in one ear while delivering food.

Ah. Installed one.

Cerberus

Does it work well?

CowperKettle

I bought this Xiaomi POCO at a local flee market site.

Cerberus

How much did you pay?

CowperKettle

I used it for GPS navigation across the city, but after a month it started malfunctioning.

And now it scarcely catches any GPS satellites at all.

@Cerberus 4000 rubles

Cerberus

Alas.

I suspect the GPS module will not be easy to replace.

CowperKettle

03:41

It's easier to buy another at the flee market

Cerberus

4000 is probably cheap.

CowperKettle

Anyway, I got used to using tiny 5000 mAh powerbanks to keep my main phone alive :)

@Cerberus Yes

Cerberus

So well done.

CowperKettle

It's "POCO M4 PRO"

And it's pleasantly fast.

6 GB / 128 GB

I want to buy a new TECNO 20 something

TECNO SPARK 20 Pro 12/256 ГБ

It's dirt cheap, only RUB 17 000, and it has 12 Gb of memory.

Cerberus

I see you can get a refurbished one from a big webship for €90 here.

CowperKettle

03:44

Nice

Cerberus

But with "signs of heavy usage".

Though still 2 years of warranty.

CowperKettle

Next time I'm in Amsterdam, I'll recall that.

Cerberus

No, no that was the Poco M4 Pro.

And it is just one device that is being sold now.

So your flea market is a lot cheaper.

CowperKettle

Ah!

The POCO I bought was owned by a 12 yo schoolboy. His mom and he arrived at the meeting place to exchange it for money

It was still filled with a ton of preinstalled news soft that comes with the phone, with Russian pro-state news constantly popping on the screen when you turn it on.

The Govt made a law according to which every new phone must come with a bundle of specified stuff, if I remember correctly

So I spent hours weeding it out.

Because I don't need news about Russian musical "stars" and the Special Military Operation and so forth :)

Here's the one I want to buy

market.yandex.ru/product--spark-20-pro/…

It seems to be the cheapest available model with 12 Gb of memory. I get tired of using the memory manager to kick out Facebook and whatnot from the active memory

I should look for some advanced memory usage apps that would constantly keep memory as clean as possible.

On Memory as a Self-Adapting Agent

►

Vikas

08:22

@Cerberus 2 years? We get only 1 year warranty on a new phone.

Vikas

10:50

Does it mean: Don't die, bastard?

jlliagre

11:43

@Vikas It does.

Vikas

👍🏾

jlliagre

12:18

@Vikas Literally: "Do not die yourself, billy goat!" :-)

Vikas

@jlliagre Hindi translation was more like: Die, bastard!

jlliagre

@Vikas That doesn't make sense. The meaning is stay alive and cabrón is not necessarily insulting. It might be used a colloquial positive way between friends.

Conrado

12:53

@jlliagre But "bastard" can be used that way too, right?

jlliagre

@Conrado I guess, bastard!

Perdona mi francés ;-)

Conrado

@jlliagre Yes, that's the way I would expect to hear "cabrón" used in a colloquial positive way between friends.

Here, I had the impression that "cabrón" was associated with a particular sub-genre of city slang.

I live in a town, but I am not in the "in" group enough to speak with confidence about it's "proper" use.

It's a kind of popular shibboleth to use it in these contexts, I think.

I do think (although I am not sure) that I've heard people use it excessively, which then (if I am right) becomes a sign of "trying too hard".

tchrist

> Remember, remember, the Fifth of November!

@jlliagre Hey you old goat, doncha just go off and croak on us now!

Maybe it would be funnier with an old toad or an old frog.

jlliagre

13:15

@tchrist Jaja. The first time I saw "GOAT" written on a picture of some famous soccer player, I was puzzled.

tchrist

> ¡Oye cabroncito, que no te nos mueras!

"dying on us" is such a curious construction.

jlliagre

Chèvre is used in French (or maybe just in Marseille) for a very poor, lazy player.

CowperKettle

tchrist

@CowperKettle heh

jlliagre

@tchrist Ethical dative.

Robusto

13:19

@CowperKettle That's grim.

tchrist

@jlliagre Yes.

jlliagre

17

Q: "Je vais te me les disperser" ?

I wanted to provide a picture in case I was misreading this or something. I can't fathom how this sentence is grammatically viable. Three object pronouns in a row?

Robusto

#travle #692 +0 (Perfect)
✅✅✅
https://travle.earth

tchrist

@jlliagre Those ones have an "extra" pronoun in them.

jlliagre

@tchrist Thus double ethical dative.

Robusto

13:28

Wordle 1,235 2/6

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tchrist

Hey you little rascal you, let's not go offing yourself on us just because you thought you'd take a shortcut and just jump over the alley from that fifth-floor gap instead of taking the stairs down and around and back on up again like a sane person.

Gee Spanky you never lemme have any fun!

jlliagre

#travle #692 +0
🟩✅✅
https://travle.earth

Wordle 1,235 4/6

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alphabet

From NYT:

> Back in June, former President Donald J. Trump appeared on a podcast interview with Logan Paul, the wrestler and social media star. They chatted about immigration and the economy, but also about boxing and the existence of aliens — which Mr. Trump described as “very possible.”

> Finn Murphy, a 20-year-old college student in Carolina Beach, N.C., generally stays away from politics. But when he listened to snippets of the podcast, he liked what he heard. That’s why, hair still wet from an afternoon of surfing, he was standing in line last week alongside people three times his age to cast his vote for Mr. Trump.

jlliagre

@alphabet True, boxing is very possible.

alphabet

On behalf of men under age 60, I'm sorry. I promise we aren't all like this dude.

jlliagre

14:03

#WhenTaken #252 (05.11.2024)

I scored 852/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 11038 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 99 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 477 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 186 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 960 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 170 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 1 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 23 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 197 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Robusto

14:28

#WhenTaken #252 (05.11.2024)

I scored 970/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 5 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 474 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 186 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 1 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 197 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 3 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 396 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 187 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Robusto

14:39

@jlliagre Possible, but not probable for me.

Daily Octordle #1016
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Daily Sequence Octordle #1016
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jlliagre

14:55

@Robusto Good job on #1!

Robusto

@jlliagre Thanks. I actually remembered that one from the news. That's how old I am.

I remember asking my father what country he was in at the time. The picture appeared in the Chicago Tribune.

Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Nov. 5, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 2170

jlliagre

15:22

@Robusto Amazing.

Robusto

@jlliagre The name sounded strange to my ears, so I remembered it.

jlliagre

Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Nov. 5, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ 💔 ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 1980

I found 'I' thanks to reading this very chat :-)

So it's not completely worthless after all ;-)

Daily Octordle #1016
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Daily Sequence Octordle #1016
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Score: 68

Robusto

15:40

@jlliagre Indeed. The first time I ever heard that word was in that film.

@jlliagre You should have been able to figure out "H" as well.

jlliagre

@Robusto Salmon P. Chase? I had never heard of him and have already forgotten his name. The only thing I learned here is that you do not pronounce the L in salmon (which of course I do).

Vikas

15:57

If Kamala wins in Pennsylvania, would that largely declare her winner of the election?

Mitch

@jlliagre I read that and I still don't get it.

Vikas

Mitch

What is the 'normal' way to say it, and which pronoun is added in?

and what is 'ethical' about any of it?

@Robusto Cripes... now I have to play the game to figure out what the word and/or film that is.

OK done. What movie or weird word was there? I had a sports question for ...

oh 'I' is the second question. I don't know where I was when I first heard it, but I feel like I hear it -all- the time... right here!

Also I feel like it had to have been used in the older movie 'Over the Hedge'.

jlliagre

16:47

@Mitch The normal way is Je vais les disperser (I'm going to "scatter" them.) To kind of include the person you are talking to into the action: Je vais te les disperser. To insist you are the one performing and taking advantage of the action Je vais me les disperser. The three previous sentences are common. The one combining both extra pronouns is very colloquial and sometimes perceived as impossible even by native French speakers: Je vais te me les disperser.

Mitch

@jlliagre "sometimes perceived as impossible even by native French speakers: Je vais te me les disperser." Buh buh buh... -Obélix- said it... that's as good as Grevisse.

I came here to say something.

It's gone now.

It's not like it was never there.

More lake a gaping hole that needs to be filled.

Covering it over with mindless blathering.

Words, one right after the other, connected but really, does anything mean anything at all?

jlliagre

17:04

@Mitch Yes. Goscinny is a great writer and Grevisse wrote the best French grammar. A descriptive one despite Le Bon Usage title that sounds prescriptive.

Lambie

18:44

@Mitch For your files: Je vais te les disperser: I'll scatter or disperse them for you. Or for myself (me les disperser). Of course, disperser can also be spread around.

Mitch

@Lambie Yeah that's what I was looking for. No amounting of repetition led me to those.

alphabet

Netanyahu Fires Israel’s Defense Minister, Yoav Gallant

Sure is good he picked a slow news day to do this; otherwise it'd look like he was trying to hide something.

Mitch

I get this weird feeling that things are happening in the world.

Then I wake up from my nap and realize I've had my t-shirt on backwards all day.

alphabet

Of course, they both had outstanding warrants from the ICC on war crimes charges.

tchrist

19:07

@Mitch The Manx Community will have its say!

jlliagre

19:51

@Mitch I'll scatter them for for you can indeed be expressed as Je vais te les disperser too but that would not be an ethical dative, just a regular dative, the same that appears in je vais te les donner (I'll give them to you). An ethical dative is different because the subject is not performing an action for someone but raises the interest of that someone in the action, makes them a close witness of it.

ethical dative

Noun: ethical dative (plural ethical datives)

(grammar) A form of the dative case applied to pronouns; used (in Latin and some other languages, but rare in English) to show a certain interest felt by the person indicated.

Cerberus

20:20

Is that term common in French?

Hmm not good, I believe Gallant was a moderate.

Michael Rybkin

20:32

https://www.freedomfoundation.com/labor/oregon-unions-hoping-legislature-can-restore-what-janus-took-away/ Oregon Unions Hoping Legislature Can Restore What Janus Took Away

Oregon unions ARE hoping that legislature can restore what Janus took away?

Robusto

20:42

@jlliagre Yeah, but you've seen $1 bills, haven't you?

@MichaelRybkin You don't need the copula (ARE) in news headline style.

jlliagre

@Robusto I did but I didn't pay that much attention to who was on which. When I had to use them, I looked at the face value, not the guy's face.

Robusto

@jlliagre Well, it sure wasn't Marat.

Mitch

@jlliagre OK, so not so easy to just put directly into English then.

More like "Hey you, I'll scatter them." ?

jlliagre

@Mitch Yes, the datif ethique is almost only a spoken French thing.

or Look, I'll scatter them.

@Robusto This one?

Robusto

20:59

@jlliagre That will do.

Good denomination too.

I remember a something-franc note with his picture on it. That was before the euro, of course.

Cerberus

@MichaelRybkin As Rob says, headline languages has special conventions, used in order to make it shorter. Leaving out forms of be is common.

Mitch

@jlliagre To be frank, it doesn't seem very ethical.

or unethical.

Ethics seems no where involved at all.

a-ethical?

jlliagre

@Mitch Tell the Romans.

Cerberus

Would either @Mitch or @jlliagre be interested in having the hue of his icon changed?

jlliagre

I can do that.

Mitch

21:05

@Cerberus he who?

Cerberus

That would be great!

alphabet

@Cerberus Indeed. A while back, I saw this oddly ambiguous headline: "Lucy Letby refused permission to appeal against attempted murder conviction." It actually meant that she was refused it, not that she did refuse it.

Cerberus

@Mitch I don't know! But it seems Jili is willing.

Mitch

@Cerberus I have no ethics in this.

Robusto

Mine appears to be the only non-symmetrical, non-square gravatar.

Mitch

21:06

I'm being Roman about it.

Cerberus

@alphabet Ah, yes, English and its silly fusion of past participles and past tense.

@Robusto You're good.

And so am I, I hope.

Mitch

Until someone inappropriately colored shows up?

Robusto

Also the only gravatar with an alpha channel.

Mitch

Speak of the devil

Cerberus

@Mitch Then strict measures will be called for.

alphabet

21:20

@Cerberus And adjectives derived from participles, of course.

Cerberus

Yeah those are a continuum.

alphabet

Leading to the ambiguity of sentences like "At 10pm the door was locked."

Cerberus

Right, the performative aspect can be sucked out of a past participle, leaving only its perfective aspect.

jlliagre

Done.

Cerberus

Hmm I don't see it yet?

You and Mitch are both still brown tiny square-likes?

jlliagre

21:30

Some caches to be refreshed for the chat, likely. The updated one already shows up in my replies.

Still brown for me too here.

Cerberus

Ah when I go the French site I see it!

So we shall have to wait.

I hope the blue won't resemble M. A. R. too much...

jlliagre

I added an alpha channel, that should be enough to make them distincts.

Cerberus

I look forward to it!

MetaEd

@Robusto Is this better? Coming up on Remembrance Day

@Laurel it gives me some hope for the state

Robusto

21:52

@MetaEd I like it.

Leave the world of boring quadrangles behind, neh?

M.A.R.

@Cerberus only one way to find out

Someone should make a sacrifice and go for brown

Wait, that's @Mitch

MetaEd

@Robusto I used to change my gravatar frequently to reflect upcoming days of importance

jlliagre

@Robusto I didn't found a French Franc banknote with Marat on it.

Only two foreign stamps.

CowperKettle

MetaEd

The full calendar is at my profile.

jlliagre

22:04

@Cerberus It's updated now. Looks pixelized. I'll probably update it again later.

MetaEd

@jlliagre Violet! You're turning violet, Violet!

jlliagre

Is that bad?

MetaEd

@jlliagre Only if you're Violet.

CowperKettle

> Chorus:
Oh, dainty triolet!
Oh, fragrant violet!
Oh, gentle heigho-let!
(Or little sigh).
On sweet urbanity,
Tho' mere inanity,
To touch their vanity
We will rely!

MetaEd

Because then you get rushed down to the juicing room to be squeezed.

Robusto

22:08

@jlliagre Must have been something else I remembered. I was an adult at that time, so my memory was already decaying.

jlliagre

@Robusto But you remember a casual talk you had with your father in 1960. There is still hope about your memory :-)

Robusto

@jlliagre I remember nearly everything about my childhood. I didn't start forgetting stuff until I was in my 30s, with my own children. It's the kids that made me forget!

Children rupture the membranes of their environment, especially of their parents.

CowperKettle

> In a small rural community in Tamil Nadu, villagers gather to offer prayers for Kamala Harris, the U.S. vice president who they see as a daughter of their ancestral land. It's the village of Thulasendrapuram, and Harris' rise to prominence has created a wave of excitement here.

newsweek.com/…

MetaEd

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question which divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct. My own feeling is that it is not crazy enough." ---Niels Bohr

CowperKettle

Thulasendrapuram

Thulasendrapuram is a village in Tiruvarur district, Tamil Nadu, India. It is about 7 km from Mannargudi and 300 km from state capital Chennai. In 2020, its population was approximately 350. == Relationship to Kamala Harris == Thulasendrapuram was the home of P. V. Gopalan, an Indian career civil servant who was the maternal grandfather of Kamala Harris, the 49th Vice President of the United States. In 2014, when Harris served as the Attorney General of California, she donated ₹5,000 (US$60) to the village's temple dedicated to the deity Sastha, and her name was engraved on the temple's list of...

P. V. Gopalan

Painganadu Venkataraman "P. V." Gopalan (1911 – February 1998) was an Indian career civil servant who served with the Government of Zambia and the Government of India. While as Director of Relief Measures and Refugees in Zambia, he oversaw the exodus of refugees from Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) during the Rhodesian Bush War. He later served as Advisor to 1st President of Zambia Kenneth Kaunda and also as Joint Secretary to the Government of India in 1960s. Gopalan was a member of the Imperial Secretariat Service and later a Central Secretariat Service officer. He was the maternal grandfather...

Robusto

22:22

@jlliagre Wait, it could have been a watermark on a different bill.

Cerberus

22:34

@jlliagre Oh, I see it now, well done!

It looks good to me!

Mitch

22:47

Just a hypothetical...what if, for whatever reason, a bunch of Americans decided they wanted to move to your country. As in actually emigrate, get jobs, send their kids to school, disdain all the tourists, just like locals. How would that make you feel?

Cerberus

As long they don't move to Amsterdam, perfectly fine.

Mitch

The adults would speak, if not English all the time, in as thick as an American accent as obliviousness allows.

Cerberus

Though there is a housing shortage in most of the rest of the country too. And in much of Europe.

Mitch

What if they built their own huts out of used cardboard?

Cerberus

Very welcome.

CowperKettle

23:46

A crane that can lift the Eiffel Tower

Cerberus

Are you sure?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…