English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

00:00

The Mormons are pretty much stuck with Romney, even if he does flash the occasional sign of integrity.

tchrist

And all the rest of them are dead.

Romney has his eyes set on an eternity trying to explain to God why he made the decisions he made in his life. That's a tough audience.

Robusto supports Ukraine

Well, he'll have his own planet to work things out on.

tchrist

So I am led to understand.

It's still a long time to suffer pangs of conscience from deeds past and fell.

He has a lifetime of those already, though. Just a few exceptions here and there.

Sometimes he almost seems to believe in a higher power beyond himself, one that looks like neither a turtle nor an orange.

Robusto supports Ukraine

Who knew Republican presidential candidates could get so much worse than McCain and Romney?

tchrist

Isn't that something!

I can't see how we will ever have another even of their very low stature.

Even if Mitch and Donald were to mysteriously vaporize, their party would be what it is today.

Robusto supports Ukraine

00:07

Aye.

tchrist

And that is not a party with any interest in the rule of law.

Or even in governing.

Robusto supports Ukraine

They just want to take all the money from the bottom 99% and give it to the top 1%. The quicker the better.

tchrist

Romney and McCain would have actually tried to govern, however unpleasantly. Think of Baby Bush. But Trump never did, and the next ones won't.

Robusto supports Ukraine

They will concentrate on "owning the libs."

tchrist

It almost makes you fear Plato was right. Even worse, that Cato may have been.

The Younger, that is.

Cerberus

00:10

What would McConnell be like as a president?

Robusto supports Ukraine

@tchrist Well, his Philosopher King certainly failed in Dionysius.

tchrist

@Cerberus Testudinate. :)

Cerberus

Is that bad?

tchrist

Slimy and awful, I'm sure.

Cerberus

I mean, he seems cynical, but not crazy.

tchrist

00:12

Right.

Crazy derives from the drunken peasants with their pitchforks.

No matter whether the craze is to wield them, or to flee them.

Dec 25, 2012 at 15:32, by tchrist

@RegDwighт “Non est enim consilium in volgo, non ratio, non discrimen, non diligentia, semperque sapientes ea quae populus fecisset ferenda, non semper laudanda dixerunt.” —Gaius Tullius Cicero, Pro Plancio IV.

Merry Christmas, Reg.

The street violence from the Roman mobs during the Late Republic threatened to destroy all semblance of sane and civil society. Then came Caesar. Or Caesars, whatever. To restore order.

I wonder who ours will be.

The politicians were using the pitchforky mob to get their way despite the law. It's always like that.

Look at the January 6th insurrection.

Or scores of examples from the past century all over the world.

Yes, Caesar was a populist autocrat. But I also think his reforms were sorely needed.

That isn't going to be the case with us.

Cerberus

Well, I think that particular riot of yours, deplorable though it was, is nothing compared to what happened in Rome.

The American republic is far stronger.

And its police a thousand times better organised.

tchrist

@RobustosupportsUkraine The rising waves of sectarian tit-for-tat not to mention twit-for-twat just become worse and worse. Nothing ever pours out cold water on them, only fire. They seem ignorant of their peril.

Cerberus

The guns are a problem, but, even then, I see no possibility for a violent riot to succeed in toppling government.

Robusto supports Ukraine

00:28

@tchrist Once again, I blame Faux News and the other volcanoes of hate.

tchrist

You will not achieve good government when your most fundamental goal is revenge against other political points of view instead of actual governance,

Paid sick leave helps that a little.

Lack of same certainly makes it worse.

> At present all Russian employees are entitled to sick leave for the duration of an illness, with compensation of between 60% and 100% of their average earnings, depending on their length of employment.

Hm.

I've lost count of all the Americans in high station recently diagnosed with the covid. But at least those guys get to stay home when they're sick.

I'm pretty sure that this means they should not have been doing the things they've been doing.

There are just too many of them for other explanations. The current approach is not keeping them safe.

Boy do I remember those!

"But she'd have to be around 60"

Ayup.

Then again, I already knew how to tell time just fine in 1968. No silly gadgets were required.

Pong was still a good long ways off. Like, um, four years.

People used to think "digital" watches were this tremendous improvement over the standard user interface. Boy were they ever wrong.

Cerberus

> As Figure 1 shows, while virtually all Americans express support for core democratic principles, in each case less than a majority said they believed that these principles actually described the United States — May 2021, blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2021/05/12/…

tchrist

I don't like digital watches. I never need to know the current time down to the minute or second. I just need to know how long I have until whenever, and figuring that out without using damned clock arithmetic is a lot easier without arithmetic.

Don't make me subtract 09:47:24 from 11:30:00 to see how much time left I have; I can read the damned angles.

It's like how I know what time it is right now without looking at a clock. I have the angle of inclination of the sun to tell me how much time I have left before darkness falls. Which is all I care about.

Which is almost here.

Robusto supports Ukraine

00:45

@CowperKettle I have a Galaxy watch. I can have whatever face I want, including analog. I settled on one that has lots of information.

tchrist

Looking at a digital readout would be useless.

@CowperKettle Not very likely where I live.

Robusto supports Ukraine

The other advantage of a smart watch is that if I get a call or a text I don't have to take out my phone and look at it. I can just glance at my wrist and decide if I need to act.

tchrist

The last piercing light of the westering sun is even now reflecting in its full glory from the white tower at the top of the mountain behind me. I have pressing errands that will not suffer the darkness. Hasta.

Robusto supports Ukraine

Luego.

Which?

That's just how Tom talks.

Cerberus

I'll take Tolkien over that.

tchrist

01:24

> Even as Pippin gazed in wonder the walls passed from looming grey to white, blushing faintly in the dawn; and suddenly the sun climbed over the eastern shadow and sent forth a shaft that smote the face of the City.

Then Pippin cried aloud, for the Tower of Ecthelion, standing high within the topmost wall, shone out against the sky, glimmering like a spike of pearl and silver, tall and fair and shapely, and its pinnacle glittered as if it were wrought of crystals; and white banners broke and fluttered from the battlements in the morning breeze, and high and far he heard a clear ringing as…

Cerberus

A better tower.

Too bad Sauron had no artillery.

Did he even use catapults?

tchrist

@Cerberus Yes. During the Siege of Gondor.

Cerberus

But not extensively?

That is, I do not remember seeing extensive destruction in the city?

tchrist

01:41

> But the engines did not waste shot upon the indomitable wall. It was no brigand or orc-chieftain that ordered the assault upon the Lord of Mordor’s greatest foe. A power and mind of malice guided it.

As soon as the great catapults were set, with many yells and the creaking of rope and winch, they began to throw missiles marvellously high, so that they passed right above the battlement and fell thudding within the first circle of the City; and many of them by some secret art burst into flame as they came toppling down.

Cerberus

That is something.

The first circle was the lowest of the seven, I praesume?

tchrist

Here is where it should be remembered that in Gondor we hear the distant echoes of Gondolin itself, where too were catapults employed during the siege. And the Fall of Gondolin is deeply connected to Book II of the Aeneid.

Cerberus

Gondolin is one of my favourite themes.

For a long time I have thought, if I will ever write a fantasy or science-fiction novel, it must be about a besieged city.

I don't think I could. But I would.

Castle Hagedorn is another favourite.

tchrist

Oh, it was Turgon who used catapults!

Cerberus

Do you know it?

tchrist

01:45

> But now Gothmog lord of Balrogs, captain of the hosts of Melko, took
counsel and gathered all his things of iron that could coil themselves
around and above all obstacles before them. These he bade pile themselves
before the northern gate; and behold, their great spires reached even to
its threshold and thrust at the towers and bastions about it, and by reason
of the exceeding heaviness of their bodies those gates fell, and great was
the noise thereof: yet the most of the walls around them still stood firm.

"Then the engines and the catapults of the king poured darts and boulders and molten metals on those ruthless beasts"

Here is more of Gondolin that you have not read:

Cerberus

I remember it was one of Tolkien's first stories.

tchrist

> No gate or door could Tuor see in this mighty hedge of steel, but as he drew near through the spaces between its bars there came, as it seemed to him, a dazzling light, and he shaded his eyes, and stood still in dread and wonder. But Elemmakil went forward, and no gate opened to his touch; but he struck upon a bar, and the fence rang like a harp of many strings, giving forth clear notes in harmony that ran from tower to tower.

Straightway there issued riders from the towers, but before those of the north tower came one upon a white horse; and he dismounted and strode towards them. And hi…

Cerberus

Which he changed and eventually summarised into a shorter episode in the Silmarillion?

tchrist

I don't know that it was especially changed, just greatly abbreviated as 'twere the Cliff Notes edition.

That's why Gondor has a Tower of Ecthelion. In memory of the Lord of the Fountain from Gondolin.

Cerberus

@tchrist I may not have read this exact text, but I think this meeting is in the Silmarillion?

@tchrist I think the old text describing the battle read somewhat more like a myth or fairy-tale than Tolkien's later works?

By the way, what is coining?

OCR for coming?

Yeah, that would make sense.

tchrist

01:52

There it was that Glorfindel and Ecthelion slew the Balrog, that Tuor and Idril daughter of the King should escape with their lives and that of their young son Eärendil the great emissary.

Yes, OCR for coming.

@Cerberus Not exactly, but it was written in a deliberately archaic mode of English, and it lacked the richness of the passage I have excerpted from you -- which he wrote after he wrote The Lord of the Rings.

Why do I keep thinking Ecthelion has a Greekish look to the word?

Cerberus

The th and the -ion?

In Greek, it should be chth.

Assimilation of the spirit.

tchrist

I always spell it that way, with the extra h! That's why I couldn't find the quote I wanted at first.

Cerberus

Hah.

Ec- is Greek, but not before th.

Hmm it seems many words with ecth- do exist!

I did not expect this.

Somehow, ek does not seem to assimilate.

tchrist

I figured he chose the name because of its classical look, but I don't know that it was ever part of Greek history, legend, or myth.

Cerberus

It doesn't ring a bell except as being Tolkienesque.

Mitch

02:02

@Cerberus More people have studied the myths of Tolkien than have ever laid eyes on the Greek myths.

tchrist

Here's a snippet of the original text, not the latter-day rewrite post LOTR:

Cerberus

@Mitch Nah.

tchrist

> Then came there from the south of the city the people of the Fountain,
and Ecthelion was their lord, and silver and diamonds were their delight;
and swords very long and bright and pale did they wield, and they went
into battle to the music of flutes. Behind them came the host of the Harp,
and this was a battalion of brave warriors; but their leader Salgant was a
craven, and he fawned upon Meglin. They were dight with tassels of
silver and tassels of gold, and a harp of silver shone in their blazonry

Mitch

And more non-Greeks have read the Greek myths than the generations of Greeks that first told them.

tchrist

As you see, it is splendid but less approachable.

Mitch

02:03

@Cerberus I was setting up some hyperbole.

Cerberus

A bit more biblical, perhaps.

Mitch

Go with the story.

It's all fan fiction.

Cerberus

Repetition and simple constructions.

Mitch

Gilgamesh fan fiction.

tchrist

King James's translators deliberately used poetic and high-sounding language.

Mitch

02:05

You can trace the modern Great American Philosophical Novel, Fifty Shades of Gray, all the way back to Gilgamesh and Enkidu.

tchrist

There, now I can read them. You kept leaving my hangi

Mitch

They should do one of those history of philosophy timelines ending with Fifty Shades of Gray and the Hunger Games.

tchrist

If you don't tell me to stop I keep holding my breath!

Your teeners have corrupted you.

Mitch

tchrist

You need to remap ^M to ".\x0A\x0D" or something. You keep missing your periods. Does your mother know?

Mitch

02:10

Wait... for the last 10 minutes I've been religiously adding in periods where I almost never do.

3

Religiously.

Cerberus

Good.

Mitch

like as in a religion.

where you go to hell if you say 'Hell'.

Cerberus

Waahh what happened to your capitals?

I know you're doing it on purpose!

Mitch

As if hell were the only thing keeping most people from going berserk.

@Cerberus Look man, I can only concentrarte on one thing at a time. Periods or capitals, one or the other. If both are in, then somethings gotta give.

Like spelling.

Cerberus

No!

I know you can do this!

Mitch

02:13

Or vowels.

tchrist

Did you know that Ulmo had a car?

> Behold now Ulmo leapt upon his car before the doorway of his palace
below the still waters of the Outer Sea; and his car was drawn by
narwhal and sealion and was in fashion like a whale; and amidst the
sounding of great conches he sped from Ulmonan. So great was the
speed of his going that in days, and not in years without count as might
be thought, he reached the mouth of the river. Up this his car might not
fare without hurt to its water and its banks; therefore Ulmo, loving all
rivers and this one more than most, went thence on foot, robed to the

Mitch

Stop it. You're taunting me.

Oh.

DIfferent Ulmo.

tchrist

You're thinking of Elmo, Lúthien’s uncle.

Not sure what to make of his skirts, though.

What's a kirtle?

Seems Skottish, doesn't it?

Cerberus

What is a chariot but a French cart?

tchrist

Yes, and he knew that.

Mitch

02:19

What is grief but love persevering?

Cerberus

Naturally.

tchrist

> From Middle English kirtel, from Old English cyrtel, cognate with Old Norse kyrtill (“tunic”) (whence Icelandic kyrtill, Danish kjortel (“gown, tunic”), Swedish kjortel (“petticoat, skirt”)), from Old Norse *kurtil-, supposedly a diminutive of *kurt-, from Latin curtus (“short, shortened”). Compare German Kittel.

The Norse pinched their shirt from Latin?

Cerberus

Always Latin.

No doubt also short.

Dutch kort.

tchrist

Said the dog curtly.

Cerberus

Perhaps a little bit.

tchrist

02:21

Courtly graces are never curt.

Cerberus

Hmm that could be related, too?

My bet would be on yes.

A curtailed area.

tchrist

el corte is the cut in Spanish; la corte the court.

Cerberus

Cf. Dutch haag, a hedge, but also a piece of land demarcated by hedges, a court.

Whence 's Gravenhage, Den Haag.

tchrist

Ddi you know that Tuor had a weird set?

Cerberus

I think French has la cour and le cours?

tchrist

02:26

> Then Ulmo arose and spake to him and for dread he came near to death,
for the depth of the voice of Ulmo is of the uttermost depth: even as deep
as his eyes which are the deepest of all things. And Ulmo said: “O Tuor
of the lonely heart, I will not that thou dwell for ever in fair places of
birds and flowers; nor would I lead thee through this pleasant land, but
that so it must be. But fare now on thy destined journey and tarry not, for
far from hence is thy weird set. Now must thou seek through the lands

@Cerberus Right. The Spanish department store is El Corte Inglés about the English cut. La Corte Inglesa would be something of Elizabeth's.

Cerberus

Hmm it seems French cour is from co-hortus, praesumably some sort of enclosed garden.

tchrist

All this super-old Gondolin stuff is difficult for modern readers to approach. It uses words they don't know.

A weird is a wyrd, a doom, a fate.

I'm pretty sure that Ulmo laid a geas upon Tuor, which is a very high-level spell. :)

Cerberus

So I think English court is unrelated to curt.

tchrist

I see.

Cerberus

@tchrist Right, I figured it must be something like that upon reading it.

Though the rest of the vocabulary is still common enough?

tchrist

02:34

Mostly. He sometimes uses EME inflections. And he uses hence/thence in ways that people have forgotten.

Cerberus

Whose inflections?

tchrist

Early Modern English

Cerberus

"From hence" would now indeed seem pleonastic.

I suspect it always was?

Or what did -nce originally indicate?

tchrist

> Then Turgon king of Gondolin robed in white with a belt of gold, and a
coronet of garnets was upon his head, stood before
his doors and spake from the head of the white stairs that led thereto.

“Welcome, O Man of the Land of Shadows. Lo! thy coming was set in
our books of wisdom, and it has been written that there would come to
pass many great things in the homes of the Gondothlim whenso thou
faredst hither.”

"whenso thou faredst hither" is going to be a shock to the system. :)

Cerberus

Intelligible enough!

tchrist

02:36

To thee and me, yea.

Cerberus

People can figure out that "so" could be used without "ever".

My older English is undeveloped.

tchrist

"thou faredst hither" > "thou didst fare hither" > "you came (to) here"

kinda

Cerberus

I think people know the verb fare.

tchrist

He had a clover for an axe.

> Upon a time the king caused his most cunning artificers to fashion a suit
of armour for Tuor as a great gift, and it was made of Gnome-steel
overlaid with silver; but his helm was adorned with a device of metals
and jewels like to two swan-wings, one on either side, and a swan's wing
was wrought on his shield; but he carried an axe rather than a sword, and
this in the speech of the Gondothlim he named Dramborleg, for its buffet
stunned and its edge clove all armour.

Recognizing that cleave was once a strong verb takes a hiccup.

Cerberus

Perhaps, but its meaning is immediately clear.

By the way, once?

Is clove not still in use?

tchrist

02:44

I don't know. I don't speak contemporary English. You'll have to ask @Mitch.

Cerberus

"Ook".

tchrist

Of course.

Cerberus

Only clave is obsolete.

tchrist

Dutch still has rede for advice/counsel, right?

> But Idril said: “This is my rede thereto: gather thou in deep secret those
delvers and quarrymen who by careful trial are found to hold least love
for Meglin by reason of the pride and arrogance of his dealings among
them.

Cerberus

Hmm rede is now a speech, oration.

Reden is reason.

tchrist

02:48

Okay.

Cerberus

Drogreden is fallacy. Bedrog = deceit.

Mitch

@tchrist clove? no, cleave, yeah if they go to church

tchrist

@Mitch What's your past tense for cleave?

O thou devil of hoof cleft and cloven.

Cerberus

In Dutch, the irregular past and past participle of klieven were lost earlier.

But we still have kloof for the noun.

And we have the verb kloven.

Which is now the same as klieven, I think?

tchrist

It's your tongue; you tell us! :)

Cerberus

02:50

One klieft with a sword, but one klooft wood.

Probably some weird modern differentiation.

Mitch

@tchrist cloven sure as adjective as in cloven hoof (again for church goers)

tchrist

Beaver Cleaver will never be past tense.

@Mitch Church goers?

What else to call a cloven hoof or a cleft palate than those things?

Mitch

bible readers, satanists, people who are familiar with talking about the devil.

oh and kosher laws

you know, like pigs and rabbits have cloven feet but don't chew the cud

tchrist

A horse's hoof is not cloven. A pig's is.

Cloven hoof

A cloven hoof, cleft hoof, divided hoof or split hoof is a hoof split into two toes. This is found on members of the mammalian order Artiodactyla. Examples of mammals that possess this type of hoof are cattle, deer, pigs, antelopes, gazelles, goats and sheep. In folklore and popular culture, a cloven hoof has long been associated with the Devil. The two digits of cloven-hooved animals are homologous to the third and fourth fingers of the hand. They are called claws and are named for their relative location on the foot: the outer, or lateral, claw and the inner, or medial claw. The space between...

Mitch

jinx

tchrist

02:55

Rhinos and tapirs are also odd-toed like a horse.

Mitch

But I have a hard time thinking of rabbits paws and pigs trotter as hooves

tchrist

Do rabbits have paws?

Mitch

feet?

tchrist

Why did you bring up rabbits?

Mitch

they have fur between their toes...I say paws

tchrist

02:57

They're not ungulates, so we count not their toes.

Mitch

because they're mentioned in kosher laws

tchrist

They're lagomorphs, and specifically leporids.

So their toes don't get counted.

Kosher is some East Coast place, right?

I think all those people died off in the land of bratwurst and braunschweiger and knockwurst and weisswurst und so weiter, whence I originate.

And kielbasa.

@RobustosupportsUkraine I seem to have lost most of mine that once adorned my shins. Strangest thing.

Do monkeys have hands or paws?

Cerberus

Hands!

Four.

tchrist

The Monkey's Paw

"The Monkey's Paw" is a horror short story by author W. W. Jacobs, first published in England in the collection The Lady of the Barge in 1902. In the story, three wishes are granted to the owner of The Monkey's Paw, but the wishes come with an enormous price for interfering with fate.It has been adapted many times in other media, including plays, films, TV series, operas, stories and comics, as early as 1903. It was first adapted to film in 1915 as a British silent film directed by Sidney Northcote. The film (now lost) starred John Lawson, who also played the main character in Louis N. Parker's...

Some weird thing.

Spider monkeys are reprehensible because they can hang from a prehensile tail as though it were a fifth hand.

Robusto supports Ukraine

03:56

@Cerberus I've always said it is well that humans don't have hands for feet, since that would mean we'd have to play keyboards with those as well.

@tchrist And that would be banging a drum or something.

Vikas

07:42

@CowperKettle Probably "instances" word was already mentioned before this sentence.

SmokeDetector

09:45

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question (93): Want more coverage than original Medicare?‭ by GetMeMyMedicare‭ on english.SE

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle "instance" has a technical meaning here

Both versions (without any articles and with "the") work for me. The latter wouldn't have worked if "instance" wasn't a technical term here

Vikas

11:18

Which vehicle is called "Semi"?

Is it a truck?

M.A.R.

11:47

@Vikas often refers to "semi-trucks"

Semi-trailer truck

A semi-trailer truck, also known as a semitruck, (or semi, eighteen-wheeler, or, by synecdoche, a semitrailer) is the combination of a tractor unit and one or more semi-trailers to carry freight. A semi-trailer attaches to the tractor with a type of hitch called a fifth-wheel. == Regional configurations == === Europe === The noticeable difference between tractor units in Europe and North America is that almost all European models are cab over engine (called "forward control" in the UK), while the majority of North American trucks are "conventional" (called "normal control" or "bonneted...

Vikas

@M.A.R. Okay. But if I google "Truck" or "Semi truck" they show similar results. What is truck then?

Also, Euro Truck Simulator game have these kinds of semi trucks. But they call it Truck only.

M.A.R.

@Vikas I think "truck" is "huge vehicle with huge engine", maybe even tanks were a subset of trucks at some point. Semi as I understand it are trucks designed to carry trailers.

tchrist

12:40

@CowperKettle I agree with you. Doesn't need the article.

@M.A.R. Dump trucks and pickup trucks.

Cerberus

12:56

@CowperKettle I would say either is possible, with or without the.

But I think there is a common pattern, where you have a contrast within a noun group:

If one noun has an indefinite article, the other is more likely to have a definite article.

> The feet of a cat are soft.

> The water under a bridge runs fast.

Perhaps it is somehow related to to e.g. the parts that make up a whole: the restrictive relative clause likes for the antecedent to have a definite article.

Though it is not always compulsory.

The definite article does not mean that the word has been mentioned before, but it does have some pragmatic function, I think.

Cerberus

13:15

That is good, I suppose.

Cerberus

13:29

> #Worldle #77 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

tchrist

How?

Cerberus

I just know what this place looks like.

Robusto supports Ukraine

#Worldle #77 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

Yeah, it is kind of obvious.

Cerberus

Only if you know it.

Robusto supports Ukraine

I'm lucky I remembered the right name, though.

I knew where it was instantly.

Cerberus

13:32

I looked at the map recently, to refresh my memory.

Robusto supports Ukraine

Wordle 293 4/6

🟨🟨⬜⬜⬜
⬜🟨🟩🟩🟨
🟩⬜🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

OK performance. Nothing to write home about.

Side note: I wonder why Guinea is such a popular name for a country.

tchrist

"How did [Switzerland] stay neutral and not get itself Belgiumed?" @Cerberus What happens if you get Belgiumed?

How and why did Switzerland become Neutral? (Short animated documentary)

►

Robusto supports Ukraine

Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Equatorial Guinea?

tchrist

moment

Why are so many countries called Guinea? (Short Animated Documentary)

►

Robusto supports Ukraine

I played right into that one, didn't I?

tchrist

13:41

Aye. It means darkies.

Cerberus

@tchrist Variously added to different great powers, praesumably.

Robusto supports Ukraine

I would think Swiss geography had something to do with it.

tchrist

He left out Timor-Leste. Not to mention et dona ferentes.

Cerberus

@RobustosupportsUkraine Yeah.

Robusto supports Ukraine

Even now, the Swiss mountain passes are mined in case someone tries to invade.

tchrist

13:46

Naw, they're mined because folks are looking for the gold they buried there.

Robusto supports Ukraine

rimshot

Cerberus

I praesume Switzerland has invested heavily in anti-aircraft missiles. And I think there is no other way to easily attack the country.

Can still be nuked, though.

Robusto supports Ukraine

Yeah. But only out of spite.

tchrist

I rather doubt that suffices.

Cerberus

Suffices to do what?

I imagine a nuke in a valley will do extra damage.

Though it won't hit the next valley.

tchrist

13:48

The interesting thing about that video, as with so many, is how clearly it shows the terrible and virtually continuous land-grab mess that post-Roman Europe has always suffered.

Cerberus

Even so, the large cities are vulnerable like any other.

tchrist

@Cerberus Mountains weren't enough to stave off all those historical conquests.

Cerberus

Well, they helped a lot.

Even to stop the armies of the Holy Roman Emperor.

Robusto supports Ukraine

Plus the Swiss can be mean motherfuckers.

tchrist

Of which they were once a part.

Robusto supports Ukraine

13:50

Every man of military age has an automatic weapon in his house.

Vikas

Wordle 293 6/6

🟨⬜🟨🟨⬜
⬜🟩🟨🟨⬜
🟨⬜🟨⬜⬜
🟩🟩⬜⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Hurrrah!!!!!

tchrist

@RobustosupportsUkraine The envy of all Ukrainians.

Robusto supports Ukraine

@Vikas "Whew!" as Wordle has it.

Vikas

I didn't think I would be able to guess last letter.

I'm getting better now

Cerberus

Congratulations.

Robusto supports Ukraine

13:53

@Vikas You're on the right track.

Vikas

Yeah. I think it doesn't give too difficult words.

tchrist

> The Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022, as it’s known, would expedite the transfer of critical military equipment and other critical supplies to Ukraine by cutting bureaucratic red tape. It allows for the de facto gifting of equipment, with provisions stipulating that recipient countries would repay the U.S. at a later date.

That's the element that puzzled me.

Don't we already give away a lot?

Vikas

#Worldle #77 X/6 (96%)
🟩🟩🟩🟨⬜⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨↙️
🟩🟩🟩🟨⬜↖️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟨⬜↖️
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

tchrist

Perhaps doing so in great quantity requires Acts of Congress.

Vikas

I think I have seen this map before.

@RobustosupportsUkraine I used your side note but it didn't help 🤣

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