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16:00
Curious.
Those are real elk.
I call all those animals elanden.
Probably related to elk.
Whoa.
No, it says that the Dutch calls moose eland.
> De eland (Alces alces) is de grootste nog levende hertensoort: hij wordt minstens zo groot als een paard. Het is de enige nog levende soort uit het geslacht Alces.
We're not as clever as Wikipedia.
But but but
What do you call eland then?
Wah.
I don't think many people would know what you meant if you said wapiti in Dutch. I certainly wouldn't. I may or may not have heard the word before, that's all.
16:02
so @Cerberus I discovered today that my car (which I've had for over a year) has a slot where you can put a phone. It seems to be perfectly-made for the GN
You call eland, elandantilope.
This is a typical eland.
OFFS
pouts
deer, elk, and moose are cervids.
eland are bovids.
That's an elk.
@Cerberus That’s a moose.
16:03
This we might call and eland, or just a big deer, or we might just have no idea what to call it.
The common eland (Taurotragus oryx), also known as the southern eland or eland antelope, is a savannah and plains antelope found in East and Southern Africa. It is a species of the family Bovidae and genus Taurotragus. It was first described by Peter Simon Pallas in 1766. An adult male is around 1.6 metres (5 ft) tall at the shoulder (females are 20 centimetres (7.9 in) shorter) and weighs an average of 500–600 kilograms (1,100–1,300 lb, 340–445 kilograms (750–980 lb) for females). It is the second largest antelope in the world, being slightly smal...
That is an eland.
Not in Dutch.
Wrong pic.
The pic is a pig.
WTF?
I keep having this trouble with Wikipedia. It shows pix of the wrong critter.
I cannot understand it.
16:05
@tchrist That looks like some kind of African animal that we couldn't name even if you burned our hands with red-hot iron.
I think we've all learned a valuable lesson about animal names in foreign languages today. They don't make any fucking sense.
But if you click the page, you will see the eland.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Right.
@tchrist It always does that.
It never shows the first picture here.
Do you see a pig by the boxed Wikipedia thingie?
Always some other picture that is guaranteed to be off topic.
16:05
Oh.
@tchrist Yes.
It is a mystery.
It is usually somewhat related to the article.
heheh the pig is the LAST pic on the page, not even part of the article, just a tiny thumbnail leading to the "animals" portal
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I can see why professionals use Latin.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Haha, so that's it: the last picture?
Oh no!
16:07
@Cerberus well, in THAT case
@tchrist Pig Latin, perhaps?
The eland is Taurotragus oryx!!
At least we can guess it is a bovid now.
It is not!
But then what do we call an oryx?
hangs head
not so in the case of the moose article
16:07
De eland (Alces alces) is de grootste nog levende hertensoort: hij wordt minstens zo groot als een paard. Het is de enige nog levende soort uit het geslacht Alces. Beschrijving De eland is een zeer groot dier met een opmerkelijke snuit. De vacht is ruw en grijsbruin van kleur. De rui valt in de lente. De poten zijn lang, waardoor hij in de diepe sneeuw kan lopen, en zijn grijzig wit. Bij vrouwtjes (koeien) loopt deze kleur over tot bij de staart. Volwassen mannetjes (stieren) hebben een baard en een gewei. Elanden hebben een sterk ontwikkeld reuk- en gehoororgaan. Het zicht is echter b...
For once the picture is correct.
Yes.
Hah!
So you have conceded.
Oryx is one of four large antelope species of the genus Oryx. Three of the species are native to arid parts of Africa, with a fourth native to the Arabian Peninsula. Their fur is pale with contrasting dark markings in the face and on the legs, and their long horns are almost straight. The exception is the Scimitar Oryx, which lacks dark markings on the legs, only has faint dark markings on the head, has an ochre neck, and horns that are clearly decurved. The Arabian Oryx was only saved from extinction through a captive breeding program and reintroduction to the wild. Small populations o...
I hate when they swap around genus and species names.
Pandion haliaetus.
Haliæëtus leucocephalus.
Why don't you teach those animals a lesson.
Which one is the fish eagle?
16:09
Approach them and slap a bull.
I have walked amongst a herd of elk before.
They were cows, though.
Hali- sounds like the sea.
Yes, right.
Leucocephalus means white head.
Certainly.
It’s the bald eagle, which is a type of sea eagle.
Pandion are osprey.
16:11
Kind?
@JasperLoy Pshaw, I've had this avatar for years.
| image = Osprey mg 9605.jpg | image_caption = North American subspecies | regnum = Animalia | phylum = Chordata | classis = Aves | ordo = Accipitriformes or Falconiformes | familia = Pandionidae | familia_authority = Sclater & Salvin, 1873 | genus = Pandion | genus_authority = Savigny, 1809 | species = P. haliaetus | binomial = Pandion haliaetus | binomial_authority = (Linnaeus, 1758) | range_map = Wiki-Pandion haliaetus.png }} The Osprey (Pandion haliaetus), sometimes known as the sea hawk, fish eagle or fish hawk, is a diurnal, fish-eating bird of prey. It is a large raptor, reaching ...
@tchrist No. Nail polish OTOH...
@Cerberus Other people get letters wrong. I randomly swap out entire words.
Oh, I do that too.
I often some too.
16:12
You do, really?
I don't know other people than me who do that.
They just get letters wrong.
I don't usually get letters wrong, unless I misunderstand the word.
There's something bizarre about how our brains work, then.
I get everything wrong.
:"American Eagle" redirects here. For other uses, see American Eagle (disambiguation). The Bald Eagle (Haliaeetus leucocephalus Greek hali = salt, aeetus = eagle, leuco = white, cephalis = head) is a bird of prey found in North America. It is the national bird of the United States of America and appears on its Seal. This sea eagle has two known sub-species and forms a species pair with the White-tailed Eagle. Its range includes most of Canada and Alaska, all of the contiguous United States, and northern Mexico. It is found near large bodies of open water with an abundant food supply and ...
What also happens a lot is that I misspell a word, and then autocorrect turns it into something entirely different.
I never use autocorrect.
At most, I consider Safari’s red underlinings as advisory.
I prefer writing Haliaeetus as Haliæëtus.
Autocorrect is quiet convenient.
16:15
I don’t want to misstem it.
I think the danger is minimal.
Not that eetus leads anywhere classically.
I always pronounce binomials wrong. Linum is to me leenoom not lyenahm.
I don't get it.
You mean a suffix -linum?
There is this bizarre thing called Anglo-Latin that one is supposed to use.
No, the genus Linum, which is flax.
How is that binomial?
16:18
By binomial, I mean taxon.
Huh.
Is that word used to mean taxon?
It just means "of two names" to me.
A "Latin binomial" is a scientific genus+species, denoting a taxon.
Linum lewisii (Linum perenne var. lewisii) (Lewis flax, blue flax or prairie flax) is a perennial plant in the family Linaceae, native to western North America from Alaska south to Baja California, and from the Pacific Coast east to the Mississippi River. It grows on ridges and dry slopes, from sea level in the north up to 3000 m altitude in the south of the species' range. It is a slender herbaceous plant growing to 90 cm tall, with spirally arranged narrow lanceolate leaves 1–2 cm long. The flowers are pale blue or lavender to white, 1.5–3 cm diameter, with five petals...
I only read these things. I don't hear people say them.
It is a weird word anyway.
@tchrist Neither do I.
16:20
So when a biologist said lyenuhm to me, I didn't get what he was saying.
You don't pronounce them the English way in your mind?
And he knows both Latin and Greek, too. It's just that there is this super-bizarre "Anglo-Latin" idea.
No, I pronounce them with Latin vowels.
See that? Silliness.
The traditional English pronunciation of Latin, and Classical Greek words borrowed through Latin, is the way the Latin language was traditionally pronounced by speakers of English until the early 20th century. Since the Middle Ages, speakers of English (from Middle English onward) have pronounced Latin not as the Romans did, but according to a traditional scheme borrowed from France. This traditional pronunciation became closely linked to the pronunciation of English, and as the pronunciation of English changed with time, the English pronunciation of Latin changed as well. At the end of...
It is... odd.
But you need to say things that way to make the poets scan right.
Look how insanely long and complicated that page is.
I know the "traditional" pronunciation is based both on Latin/Greek and English rules.
16:26
Menelaus has to be said men’ll LAY us. Achilles must be said a-KILL-eze. Or our poetry won't work.
> At the end of the 19th century, this Anglo-Latin pronunciation began to be superseded in Latin instruction by a reconstructed Classical pronunciation, closer to an earlier Roman pronunciation, and with a more transparent relationship between spelling and pronunciation. By the mid-20th century, classroom use of the traditional pronunciation had all but ceased. The traditional pronunciation, however, survives in academic English vocabulary:
I do not understand this. It is my impression that the traditional pronunciation is still all but standard.
I have never heard an Englishman pronounce it any other way, except perhaps the occasional scholar quoting Latin poetry or something.
When they teach Latin, they now use a "classical" not a "traditional" pronunciation.
But not many people use it outside the classroom, do they?
But words borrowed into English, or even merely cited, still get the traditional pronunciation.
Right, you never hear weeny weedi weeky.
You hear veeny veedy veechy.
> In the taxonomic nomenclature of botany and zoology: phylum, genus, species, chrysanthemum, hibiscus, rhododendron, fœtus, larva, ovum, pupa, chamæleon, lemur, platypus
That is incorrect.
Classrooms here changed from traditional French/Italian pronunciation to authentic too, but anyone over 4o or 50 will still always use the traditional pronunciation. I switch between the two; but I would never ever use anything but traditional pronunciation in English, except when directly quoting Latin/Greek literature.
16:30
It is not foetus.
That is a British error.
fœtus, fetus /ˈfiːtəs/.

Etymology: a. L. fētus (u stem) offspring (incorrectly written fœtus), f. root *fē- to produce offspring:-Aryan *bhwē-, an extension of root *bheu-, bhu-, to grow, come into being: see be v.

The etymologically preferable spelling with e in this word and its cognates is adopted as the standard form in some recent Dicts., but in actual use is almost unknown. (N.E.D.)
@tchrist I would pronounce all those the traditional way in English.
Yes, so would I.
I just didn't realize I was supposed to do the same with taxa.
Note that the NED comment is OED1.
No one in America writes foetus. We use the original fetus.
Ah.
Foetus would be silly.
As I said, it is a British error.
They spell it that way there.
It is probably a much older error than British, though.
Probably first committed in Mediaeval Latin.
16:32
They have the same problem with foetid.
Silly.
fetid, fœtid /ˈfɛtɪd/, /ˈfiːtɪd/, a. and sb.

Forms: 6 foetide, (7 fetode, 8 fætid), 7- fetid, fœtid.

Etymology: ad. L. fētid-us (often incorrectly written fœtidus), f. fētēre to have an offensive smell.
Americans only ever use fetid, fetus.
Brits, well.
In Mediaeval Latin, you will often see caeterum.
Another hypercorrection.
You do?
I wonder how that happened.
I mean, yes, I understand hypercorrection of course.
I don't understand the impetus in these cases.
16:35
Well, all ae and oe were pronounced /eː/ or /ɛː/ or something at some point.
@cornbreadninja It’s not an answer at all. It’s a comment.
Damn it. I must have a drug problem.
I just can't figure out which ones I'm missing.
Spelling followed, though never consistently; at some later point, people were trying to be more "correct" and revert to the classical ae/oe. And they made mistakes, somehow often with caeterum/caetera.
@tchrist :\
Oh look, the OED missed one:
ǁ asafœtida /æsəˈfɛtɪdə/.

Forms: 4-9 asa-, 6-9 assafetida, assafœtida, 7- asafœtida; also 5 asafetyday, 6 azafedida, assi-, 7 assefœtida, assaffetteda.

Etymology: med.L.: asa, latinized form of Pers. azā mastic + fœtida, fem. of fœtidus ill-smelling, stinking.

 A concreted resinous gum, with a strong alliaceous odour, procured in Central Asia from the Narthex asafœtida and allied umbelliferous plants; used in medicine as an antispasmodic, and as a flavouring in made dishes.
Send them a memo.
16:37
@Cerberus this reminds me that after my dream about riding a wangaroo, I had a dream about a giant, sprawling outdoor sale that had skinny wooden ligatures for sale.
I wish they had a better way to receive input/feedback/memos.
Printing off paper copies and mailing them by post seems so . . . archaic.
@cornbreadninja Haha, that is extraordinary! I mean, skinny ligatures! Odd.
Are we back to typography?
@tchrist I believe there was some form where you could make suggestions.
Or are we just tying people up?
16:39
Heh.
Tying letters up.
@Cerberus Perhaps I’ve missed it then. I did look.
I haven't used it myself. I heard something about something.
Tubal ligations are something women get. A papal legate is an ambassador tied to his popeness.
Pah.
Folk etymology is so fun.
16:41
@tchrist !
Endless fun?
It sure is endless...
Like people's imagination.
God, I'm tired.
Didn't get much sleep last night, nor the night before.
I had had more than enough of this no-sleep thing, so I took diphenhydramine last night.
A sleeping pill?
An over-the-counter antihistamine.
16:43
But yes, that was the purpose.
Does that work for you?
Nose strips are wonderful for better sleep.
I have those too.
Usually.
Nose strips?
16:44
"Nose strips"?
What are those?
They're like a strong band-aid you put over your nose that holds your nasal passages open.
Breathe Right is the brand name.
Ah, I see.
Sounds like a poor excuse for a CPAP device.
Do they work like a decongestant? Or do they contain menthol?
16:45
@Cerberus I think some have some kind of medicine, but I don't know what, and I've only had the drug-free ones.
I sleep like a boss.
I've only used the generic kind.
@cornbreadninja What is the world does that mean?
Continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) is the use of continuous positive pressure to maintain a continuous level of positive airway pressure. It is functionally similar to PEEP, except that PEEP is an applied pressure against exhalation and CPAP is a pressure applied by a constant flow. The ventilator does not cycle during CPAP, no additional pressure above the level of CPAP is provided, and patients must initiate all of their breaths. Nasal CPAP is frequently used in neonates though its use is controversial. Studies have shown nasal CPAP to reduce ventilator time but an increased ...
No drugs there, either.
I guess if your issue is a congested nose, then why not.
@tchrist that I sleep like a boss. That there is no messing around. Never slept better. I rule the night with an iron string of Zs floating from my mouth.
Hm.
Is this youth slang?
It might be video game slang.
16:48
I have never heard it.
Because you fight bosses in certain video games, who are especially hard to beat.
You do?
I have heard of it.
Are these Dilbert games?
But really, I have to band my jaws together at night (braces) so it is nice to exaggerate my one airway.
16:49
You don't know game bosses?
A boss is an enemy-based challenge (and a computer-controlled opponent in such a challenge) which is found in video games. A fight with a boss character is commonly referred to as a boss battle or boss fight. Boss battles are generally seen at the climax of a particular section of the game, usually at the end of a stage or level, or guarding a specific objective, and the boss enemy is generally far stronger than the opponents the player has faced up to that point. History The first interactive game to feature a boss was dnd, a 1975 role-playing video game for the PLATO system. One of th...
@Cerberus Only the mafiosi who run gambling rackets. Those are game bosses.
Heh.
Funny.
y pit boss.
Have you ever played videos games like Mario?
16:50
Well they are.
Hm.
Bowser is the archetypical boss.
It is used in Dutch too, baas.
I’ve only played tabletop "video" games.
Not on a television or computer.
Bowser, also known as King Koopa, is a video game character and the primary antagonist of Nintendo's Mario franchise. In Japan, the character is known as and bears the title of . In the United States, the character was first referred to as "Bowser, King of the Koopa" and "The sorcerer king" in the Super Mario Bros. instruction manual. Bowser is the leader and most powerful of the turtle-like Koopa race and is the greedy archnemesis of Mario beginning with his first appearance, in the game Super Mario Bros. His ultimate goals are to marry Princess Peach, defeat Mario, and conquer the Mush...
You can typically get a generic box of 30 nose strips for about $7-8. I'll send you $7-8 if they don't help.
@tchrist What are those?
16:51
Millipede, Galaga, etc.
Never heard of those...how can you have a video on a table?
is a fixed shooter arcade game developed and published by Namco in Japan and published by Midway in North America in 1981. It is the sequel to Galaxian, released in 1979. The gameplay of Galaga puts the player in control of a space ship which is situated on the bottom of the screen. At the beginning of each stage, the area is empty, but over time, enemy aliens fly in formation, and once all of the enemies arrive on screen, they will come down at the player's ship in formations of one or more and may either shoot it or collide with it. During the entire stage, the player may fire upon the ...
Ah, arcade games.
So you played Galaga in an arcade hall or something?
Yes, that’s right.
Perhaps.
Or at a bar.
Those count.
Some of those games should have bosses.
16:52
The word boss does not enter.
Millipede is a 1982 arcade game by Atari, Inc. and is the sequel to the arcade hit, Centipede. The objective of the game is to score as many points as possible by destroying all segments of the millipede as it moves toward the bottom of the screen, as well as destroying and avoiding other enemies. The game is played with a trackball and a single fire button, which can be held down for rapid-fire. The game is over when the player's last life is lost. Gameplay The gameplay of Millipede is similar to Centipede but differs mostly in enemies: *Earwig: same as the scorpion in Centipede, mak...
Perhaps those particular games don't have bosses.
It should be a large, powerful enemy that you have to fight at the end of a stage or level or whatever.
That millipede might be a bit boss like, except that it is there all the time.
So I was right: youth slang.
K.
Yes.
2
Q: What is a "tote"?

TimFrom http://www.sterilite.com/home.html?section=1, there are different kinds of storage boxes. One kind is called "tote". I wonder what it means and how it is different from others? Thanks!

@mgb OED: “tote n⁴. : c. tote bag, a large hand-bag or shoulder-bag; tote box, a portable box for small items.” Voting to close as General Reference. — tchrist 47 secs ago
17:11
@tchrist I'm 32. I'm still a youth? Sweet.
Time for breakfast.
@cornbreadninja You are young until you are 35, say some.
@tchrist I'm voting to close as gen ref because he's got a picture of one. what more does he need?
user19161
17:43
So @shog after we send the request for deletion how long does it take for deletion to happen?
Hey @tchrist, are the characters on this page displayed correctly for you?
@Cerberus No, because they are idiots. It is not your fault.
@Cerberus The idiots have double-encoded the Unicode.
Oh, OK, thanks!!
Now I feel better.
First they converted pagina’s ("pagina\N{RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK}s") to UTF-8, so pagina\xE2\x80\x99s.
Then they took pagina\xE2\x80\x99s and reconverted each byte of the UTF-8 again into UTF-8, giving pagina\xC3\xA2\xE2\x82\xAC\xE2\x84\xA2s.
Which looks like shit: pagina’s
Because they are idiots.
Sturgeon’s Law is recursive.
Hm, perhaps I shouldn’t have admitted all this:
1
A: Does "non-" prefixed to a two word phrase permit another hyphen before the second word?

tchristThe standard, but not very satisfying, answer is that you use an EN DASH (codepoint U+2013) as a higher-order HYPHEN (codepoint U+2010). Wikipedia says: In English, the en dash is usually used instead of a hyphen in compound (phrasal) attributives in which one or both elements is itself a co...

18:16
Oh my, does this look right to you?
Safari is hallucinating.
@tchrist I see, that sounds stupid.
@tchrist Odd.
It looks fine on FF.
Time to dump Apple...
Non sequitur.
It looks fine in Opera, too.
It is not an operating system issue.
I really hate how John Lawler and Barrie talk about tenses. It is not the way people use that word.
I don’t see how you will ever convince a Frenchman that je fus is a past tense but j’ai éte is a present tense, any moreso than you will ever convince a Spaniard that only amara is a (literary) pluperfect and that había amado is somehow in the imperfect not in the pluperfect. That simply is not the way people talk about tense, John, whether it’s in French or Spanish, or in English. With these multiword verbal phrases using auxiliaries, it is the entire thing that people to refer to as having a tense. Yes, the passé composé is a compound tense, but is still a past: see passé. — tchrist 1 min ago
18:31
@tchrist I hate the way those two try to tear apart the normal way most people talk about many, many grammatical topics.
Some if it may be tension between synchronic and diachronic analyses.
But a lot of it is just stuffed-shorts stupidity.
@tchrist stuffed shorts or shirts? 0_0
shirts
@Cerberus He’s doing it again. This is my last shot:
You do learners a disservice when they come to you saying they have a future-tense verb like amabo/amaré/aimerai and ask how to translate that into the future tense for English, and you slap them down with academic nonsense claiming that they cannot do that because English has no future tense. Nonsense! It means you cannot converse with people. Yet if they had merely stricken the banned word tense from their question, you could have given them the simple answer to the simple question: the English future is will love or sometimes shall love. Stop making easy things hard for people! — tchrist 1 min ago
I’m outta here.
18:56
@tchrist Yes, I noticed that to. I believe I have called one or the other out on it, probably Lawler, but he didn't seem to see the problem.
Yeah he keeps going. Says that I am lying to people and he is not.
This is nonsense.
His use is not supported by the OED.
Regular people’s use, is.
I support your argument there. Although it sounds a little bit harsh there...
It usually works better if you remain His Serene Calmness himself.

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