@Cerberus it's actually an article that's related to the book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Kuhn

Ah, that know.

I mean, I haven't read it.

But I know what it should be about.

Hah.

A paradox.

Everyone's favourite figure of speech.

Or, wait.

Maybe it wasn't this article but something else I was reading?

Oh, I was reading the other day about William James

Probably related to that

Resting?

@Cerberus autocarrot's doing

I think we read William James once, but I have to admit I don't remember.

@M.A.R. Ahh.

Mobile?

Yep

I do have autocorrect on my computer, but it's mild.

Mine shouldn't replace the words I type, hmm

Anyway he was from a rich family but with a plethora of congenital (?) problems that plagued him since childhood

He was a failure in a successful, wealthy family with another son and a daughter who were both renowned writers.

Tough situation to be in. Reportedly he decided to believe in free will unconditionally for a year, and his later success stemmed from that

Hmm.

I don't know what to think of that.

Some self help authors claim he "took 100 percent responsibility for his situation" even if it wasn't his fault. I don't know how accurate this characterization of the stance is.

Ah, I remember now: he was the pragmatist.

Where truth is only that which is useful.

Yep, the man in the middle between the three great pragmatists, I think

Anyway his success despite his disadvantages enticed me because I saw myself in the same situation.

I see.

Better than a self-help book?

Hmm, I read "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck".

Not because of the self-help aspect, I think I've got that base mostly covered by myself. Because of a worldview.

It's amassed a reputation for being different from other self-help positivity advice that's everywhere.

It's at best a mildly entertaining opinion piece that might help with some self-reflection. At worst, the worst introduction to a variety of philosophies and yes, Buddhism.

Many important philosophies teach us not care so much about the opinions of others.

Including the three great schools of Antiquity.

There were two ways for a book like that to garner attention: To try to compile a great many philosophies in a meticulous search for the right way to live while upholding integrity and exercising doubt whenever needed. Or to fill it with "fuck"s.

The first way would have required much more effort. I'm certain participants in this chat would not at all enjoy reading it.

That said, it's one of the few things that would familiarize teens with better ways to think about the world and for that it's almost unique and respectable in its uniqueness

It exercises in doubespeak in some of its advice too, because it's about a guy recovering from a midlife crisis and trying to distance themselves from it and Manson can't help but leak some the self-pity there although he seems to be against it.

Hmm.

E.g. (Do I capitalize that?) he vehemently recommends against trying to think positively about everything, the "I broke my leg, yay no school!" sort of logic. But then proceeds to say in another chapter, and I'm paraphrasing a bit "I started out as a total loser. Divorced parents, angry screwed up teen selling weed at school, with mostly no money. And I was fortunate because starting at the rock bottom means you can only go up".

(You're beginning a sentence, so why not use a capital?)

(OK)

@M.A.R. My comment would be: all in moderation.

(Shucks, can't edit)

Also in line with most classic philosophies.

@M.A.R. (How's that?)

(Thanks)

Trying to downplay negative thinking is often a good idea.

What is more, it's often realistic.

But wallowing in anger or sadness is not always a bad idea.

Moderation is generally a good piece of advice, but then you end up with some bad decisions because of appeal to moderation

So should we exercise moderation in moderation?

It's tricky.

@Cerberus Inorite, it's an important incentive for growth

@M.A.R. Never too much moderation!!

> I broke my leg, yay no school

This is totally how I deal with stuff.

His advice is not that objectionable in that regard. It's just . . . He claims other self-help advice is just enabling and full of artificial highs. It's hard to find more than that in his own advice though.

But I guess telling people how successful people roll up their sleeves and get to work does not help much when many turn to that sort of advice in the first place because they're looking for a shortcut

> successful people roll up their sleeves and get to work

Yeah I don't like this much.

Eh, successful people I value do that. You always have the CEOs that don't

It suggests that one can achieve almost anything if one just works hard.

Which is not at all true.

It often leads to misery.

It's also very much winner-take-all.

It's obvious that some people are just rich without remotely trying to be, and there is always some rampant nepotism and what-not.

@Cerberus There were plenty others.

@M.A.R. That's the other side of the problem.

@Cerberus it's one factor, I guess. Reality never works with a linear relation to a variable

But it's also about many people striving after the same thing, where 99% will fail and 1% will succeed.

Those failures are unhappiness.

@Cerberus yeah, before reading your angle I wanted to say it's easy to acknowledge all this and yet do the hard work thing

For example, the number of people who think they can become "rich and famous" if they just try hard enough. Not wholesome.

Fame, a very bad metric.

@M.A.R. Nothing wrong with hard work (if properly rewarded).

@Robusto Certainly.

I can't imagine wanting to be famous. In this day and age, that seems like more of a curse than anything.

He then gives an anecdote about some guitarist who was kicked out of Metallica, started his own band Megadeth, sold 30 M copies, but then considered himself a failure because he wanted to show 'em

A lot of people thinking they know you, invading your privacy ...

@Robusto some seemingly inevitable controversy that jeopardizes your career at some point, not knowing when to stop . . .

Yeah.

Walker Percy, in his novel The Last Gentleman, opines that most New Yorkers head to that city not to be "discovered" but to get lost.

Do the math.