English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

17:00

''stoned' is ambiguous because it could be an attribute like high, drunk, inebriated.

KitFox

@Mitch You can interchange 'had' and 'got' here, right?

Mitch

or stones were thrown at her

so for stones had or got both work but will mean very different things (will force the ambiguity in 'stoned' to resolve one way or the other.

skullpatrol

@Monica Generally avoid "got."

Mitch

@KitFox is that what you were asking?

user19161

@skullpatrol A sudden entry.

Vitaly

17:01

> Mr Jansen had originally put a £8,000 (€12,500) price tag on cat helicopter <…> “The work has not yet been sold but we have an offer of €100,000 on the table,” Mr Jansen's dealer Geoffrey van Vugt told the newspaper.

KitFox

@Mitch That's what @Monica is asking.

Mitch

@skullpatrol avoid got in -formal- language, but very natural in informal American English

Vitaly

Damn. Why don't I get ideas like that?

Mitch

@KitFox you can't interchange got and had normally, but for stoned it turns out you can.

KitFox

Is the helicopter for cats, or made from cats?

Vitaly

17:02

Made from a stuffed cat.

Mitch

Both? cats are bastards.

KitFox

@Mitch Yes, you can. He had his shoes shined. He got his shoes shined. Like Jasper said.

Mitch

where did the helicopter come from?

user19161

@Vitaly What?

Vitaly

►

Mitch

17:03

Oh.

OK.

what's the pattern then where you -can- use both and where you can't? (because you can't -always- switch them)

hm...

user19161

@Vitaly I think that is not being very nice to the cat even though it is dead.

user19161

We definitely would not do that to a dead human body.

Mitch

@Vitaly that's ...

not nice.

even if stuffed.

Monica

But if 'got' means that somebody caused me or somebody else to become something why can't I use 'got' in these examples?
He had me stumped.
She had me stoned.

user19161

@Mitch You mean dead. If it were alive and stuffed that would be worse.

KitFox

17:06

@Vitaly That's not a cat helicopter! That's a cat helicarrier.

Mitch

though there is a time when I would have laughed at other people's horror of it.

KitFox

@Monica It can't. It's the other one. Caused someone to do something.

Vitaly

@JasperLoy Hmm. Actually, I wonder how much money would someone pay for a human helicopter if I convinced someone terminally ill to stuff their body and make a helicopter after they died if I paid their family a certain amount of money.

KitFox

There is legal precedent.

Vitaly

Really?

Mitch

17:07

'stumped' is sort of a non-changing thing. a changing kind of thing might work

user19161

@skull You have removed so many messages today! What's wrong?

KitFox

@Vitaly I am trying to find it. There was a legal battle over the use of human cadavers in some art exhibit...

Monica

She got me to dance with her is right

Mitch

@Monica: Back to your first examples:
When was the mistake corrected?
When was the car repaired?
When was the dinner cooked?
When was the car bought?

makes them all passive.

Monica

but she had me dannce with her is not

right?

passive is simple but not the causatives

:(

Mitch

17:10

actually...that sounds ok 'She had me dance with her' almost means 'she forced me to dance with her' (but 'force' is too strong)

Sorry to add things that might confuse, but you can also say 'She got me to dance with her'

Meysam رها در بند

@Monica Did you got you browser fixed?

user19161

@Meysamرهادربند get

Mitch

'get'

ha ha jinx

Meysam رها در بند

get

user19161

@Mitch Oh I forgot you learned jinx too.

Mitch

17:12

yeah, let's not mess with Monica

Monica

No, I didn't get it fixed

Mitch

learned it? it just is.

KitFox

@Vitaly This is an interesting student? paper.

Monica

But gerund is not used there, ight?

She had/got me dancing

Mitch

@KitFox from the text in the link...it probably does not end well for the parties concerned.

Vitaly

17:13

@KitFox I trust you that it's interesting. (.docx)

Mitch

yes, both work there. She had me dancing, she got me dancing (or better she got me to dance) means that she persuaded me to dance.

KitFox

@Vitaly Want a conversion? I could make a pdf for you.

Monica

When I wrote it a native speaker wrote me back; 'hat? I don't understand this sentence.'

KitFox

Anyway, that was the name of the exhibit, "Bodies."

user19161

@KitFox That's so nice of you.

Monica

17:15

I need to practice on this a lot

But I can't find it on the Net

Vitaly

@KitFox Thanks, no need to.

KitFox

Oh, and she's only kind of a student.

Adjunct Assistant Professor.

Mitch

In American English, 'got' is informal. Are you getting exercises in it in language class? or just found out about the weirdness through the one example?

user19161

Do they teach formal grammar to kids in US schools?

KitFox

Formal?

How formal?

Monica

17:18

through a few examples

user19161

Like what a noun is, what a verb is.

Mitch

Sadly, only when they start taking a formal language.

KitFox

@Vitaly So did I impress you? I live for that.

user19161

@KitFox No flirting in chat.

Mitch

That is, they start learning grammar about English as a side affect of learning about grammar of foreign languages.

KitFox

17:19

@JasperLoy I'm not flirting, I'm fanaticizing.

Gotta go. Back later.

user19161

I realize that I am still confusing M and M.

Monica

My grammar book doesn't say much about the use of causatives

Mitch

Of course they get corrected for grammar and spelling mistakes, but they don't get much beyond the 8 parts of speech. actually I remember being taught Reed-Kellogg diagramming for a week, but nobody cared for that. and I don't know if that's common practice now.

Monica

I have to buy a better text-book, I guess

user19161

@Mitch I think the schools here during my time are the same. Just a little grammar, not much. I think more grammar would be good.

user19161

17:21

@Monica textbook

Mitch

well, the point about 'informality' is that I'd be surprised if they cover it.

Gigili

How do you bookmark a page in FF?

It doesn't work.

user19161

@Gigili What did you do?

Mitch

maybe CGEL (by Pullum et al.) because it is so big. BUt that's not really for learning, more for reference (but maybe at this point that's what you need/want)

Gigili

@JasperLoy I have Zhen's bookmarklet here: pastebin.com/625wQxKH

Monica

17:22

I can't upload pictures on this site

user19161

You need to show all bookmarks and then move the bookmarks from ungrouped to one of the other classes @gig.

Gigili

I "ctrl+D"d

Mitch

@Gigili which version? the latest one, just click the star in the URL edit box.

user19161

They will then either appear in the bookmarks dropdown or the bookmarks toolbar if you display the toolbar that is.

Gigili

When I click on it, it goes to the page instead of what it's supposed to do like in Chrome.

Mitch

17:23

cttrlD worked for me

Vitaly

@Mitch Sorry, what was the original question?

Gigili

@Mitch I did that, but um, it doesn't work.

Mitch

the orginial question for what?

Gigili

@JasperLoy Huh?

user19161

@Mitch That's why I got CGE instead of CGEL.

Vitaly

17:24

In other words, what is the thing that warrants looking it up in CGEL?

user19161

@Gigili Go to the menu. Is there something like "show all bookmarks"?

Mitch

Oh...Monica's questions about Had vs got in

He had me stumped.
She had me stoned.
Bob got me drunk.

Monica

Oh Monica's questions?

Are they so annoying?

:D

Mitch

Yes, that Mitch responded to.

Monica

I will have to search for causatives

user19161

17:27

Also, they took out Further Math from the A-level syllabus here. Stupid move.

Monica

I have to go

Thanks for your help everyone

Bye

user19161

They are always taking things out from the syllabus to make room for "creativity", not realizing that the creativity lies in the math itself.

user19161

@Monica Bye!

Gigili

@JasperLoy Bookmark toolbar?

user19161

@Gigili No. Is there an "organize bookmarks"?

user19161

17:34

I don't have the latest FF installed now.

Vitaly

I looked for causation in CGEL's index, and it took me somewhere into the middle of CGEL where they classify both get and have as catenative verbs with no matrix passivization; I can't see any obvious relevant points about the differences between have and get when they take a raised object in the past-participial construction

user19161

From there, go to "unsorted bookmarks" and move those into either "bookmarks menu" or "bookmarks toolbar" @gig.

Gigili

@JasperLoy I already did that.

user19161

@Gigili OK so problem solved?

Vitaly

they only say that have is ungrammatical in *He had his son be examined by a specialist, which is irrelevant since it takes an ordinary object there

Gigili

17:36

The problem is, when I click on it and the MSE chat room tab is active, it goes to that page instead of rendering the page.

user19161

@Gigili Goes to what page?

Gigili

I didn't have this problem on Chrome, and I did exactly the same things.

@JasperLoy pastebin.com/625wQxKH

user19161

@Gigili Well, I am not sure exactly what you clicked on.

user19161

After bookmarking a page, you must click on the bookmark to go to that page.

user19161

The bookmark can either be in the bookmark menu or in the bookmark toolbar, does not matter.

user19161

17:40

@Gigili If you clicked on a bookmark and it takes you to a weird page, maybe you bookmarked the wrong page accidentally.

user19161

Otherwise this is a very serious bug.

user19161

0

Q: I hung my head in shame

Does the phrase "I hung my head in shame" mean that the person hanged himself? Suicide?

meaning

user19161

GR

Vitaly

@Mitch However, Corpus, Cognition and Causative Constructions in Studies of Corpus Linguistics has a full chapter devoted to the syntax and semantics of English causatives (viz. have, get, make, cause). (They use corpora and elicitation tests as sources of their data.)

in*

I'd take their findings with a grain of salt despite their seemingly elaborate methodology though

KitFox

18:09

Are you implying that academics make shit up in order to justify their existence?

Vitaly

mostly because they seem to advocate for Bolinger's principle of no synonymy more than necessary

KitFox

Ouch. I think our brains just collided.

Vitaly

just a feeling

KitFox

Feeling? I didn't think you had those.

adjusts paradigm

Vitaly

(to be more precise, taking a strong position on a foundational debate is generally weak Bayesian evidence for willing to make shit up to support one's stance)

Matt Эллен

18:13

breaking news! Garlic and coriander naan bread is not as nice as garlic and rosemary flat bread

Vitaly

@MattЭллен so garlic and rosemary flat bread is the future?

Matt Эллен

I hope so!

Vitaly

:D

Matt Эллен

Alas they weren't on sale thus week, thus I am trying garlic and coriander naan

Vitaly

That was the wrong kind of sale, no doubt

Matt Эллен

18:17

no sale is indeed the wrong kind

Vitaly

since when do you like syntactic ambiguity more than most people?

Matt Эллен

:D oh you changed it

eating dinner, afk

user19161

Someone put two dots in an answer. Another person comes along to edit it. Instead of removing one dot, he added another dot to make it three. But the ellipsis still works, so I approved the edit.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

And got me into a midair collision.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Owls fly. I am no longer Superman, so I don't fly anymore.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

18:26

All the more was the collision unexpected.

user19161

However my mind has travelled the entire universe, it's true.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Don't spread your mind too thin.

skullpatrol

Also don't be too open minded...

user19161

3

Q: Is there a word to refer to the cap some British soldiers wear?

Whenever Britain is abuzz with some celebration, I find these people (cops or soldiers?) in red strutting about in parades wearing an elongated black headdress. Is there a word for this peculiar hat, just like there is a zuchetto to refer to the Pope's cap?

single-word-requests

user19161

Is that the Queen riding the horse?

user19161

18:31

@skullpatrol The way I look at things has gotten me into many conflicts with mere mortals, it's true. I don't really belong to this world.

Vitaly

And is it a Spanish mare?

skullpatrol

@JasperLoy This cyberspace world?

user19161

@skullpatrol No, the real world. Sometimes I wonder if I was born into the wrong universe.

user19161

@Vitaly Next, we'll be asking about the brand of the hand gloves.

user19161

Those gloves are available in all good department stores.

user19161

18:36

+1. For mentioning temporal or concessive clauses. – Noah 1 hour ago

user19161

Wow, he sounds so authoritative.

Vitaly

> On page 889 under the entry Spanish there is this phrase: "ride the Spanish mare" The phrase refers to a maritime punishment. The victim is put on the boom (a rod which keeps the mast stretched and firm) with legs on either side. The bilingual dictionary gives the meaning like this: to bypass the fortune (bhagyathe kavachukadakkuka). The editor of the dictionary seems to have mistaken "boom" for "boon".

(I'm surprised there's only 54 results in Google for ride the Spanish mare, and most of those are some Chinese websites.)

user19161

@Vitaly Wow, you seem to have read all the books in the world.

user19161

I am so happy I have stopped downvoting. Now I still have the lovely 1000.

Matt Эллен

> In geology, whoever sees the most rocks wins.

Gigili

18:42

I want to watch a movie. What do you recommend?

Vitaly

@JasperLoy Nah, I just have a reasonably good library:

The Library of Babel

"The Library of Babel" () is a short story by Argentine author and librarian Jorge Luis Borges (1899–1986), conceiving of a universe in the form of a vast library containing all possible 410-page books of a certain format. The story was originally published in Spanish in Borges's 1941 collection of stories El Jardín de senderos que se bifurcan (The Garden of Forking Paths). That entire book was, in turn, included within his much-reprinted Ficciones (1944). Two English-language translations appeared approximately simultaneously in 1962, one by James E. Irby in a diverse collection of Borge...

user19161

@Gigili I recommend Good Will Hunting and A Beautiful Mind. Also, Proof starring Gwyneth Paltrow. But don't watch Pi.

Matt Эллен

— John Grotzinger project scientist for the Mars Science Laboratory

damnit you all tweened my quote attribution!

What I really want to know is what one gets for winning geology

user19161

@MattЭллен Interestingly dammit=damnit.

Matt Эллен

May 4 at 11:14, by Matt Эллен

it's how I've always spelt it

user19161

18:45

Again, I must say that I watched Pi for 5 min and stopped. It looked terrible.

user19161

I hastily judged it to belong to the pretentious category.

Gigili

Oh, is A beautiful mind the one I think it is?

user19161

@Gigili I only know of one.

Vitaly

Study of a River

Study of a River is a 1997 experimental film directed by Peter Hutton. The experimental film focuses on the first part of a winter seasonal study of the Hudson River. It won "Most Overlooked Short Film Award" at the 1997 Oberhausen International Short Film Festival. In 2010, it was selected for preservation by the National Film Registry. It is currently the most recent film chosen to be in the Registry. See also * 1997 in film External links *

user19161

@gig If you want to watch a cartoon, I recommend The Polar Express which the rest of the room hate.

Vitaly

18:48

If anything, that beats all other suggestions because you can watch it on YouTube: youtube.com/watch?v=Z-jxI82vFnA !

Gigili

@Vitaly Uhum, I'll watch that one.

user19161

@Vitaly Hmm, actually many movies are on youtube.

Gigili

@JasperLoy I didn't like it.

Vitaly

@Gigili Just kidding.

user19161

@Gigili Aww.

Gigili

18:49

@Vitaly Huh?

user19161

I will watch The Polar Express every Christmas.

Matt Эллен

just checking it's not a rick roll!

Gigili

@JasperLoy I watch The Polar Express every Christmas.

Vitaly

@Gigili It's basically black-and-white footage of the Hudson River that lasts 16 minutes

user19161

@Gigili Well, they mean slightly different things actually.

user19161

18:50

I leave it as an exercise for you to figure out.

Gigili

@Vitaly Pft? But the link is about two hours?

@JasperLoy Yes, what you said makes no sense.

user19161

@Gigili Er, how does it not make sense?

user19161

It simply means I intend to watch it in all future occurrences of Christmas. QED.

Gigili

@JasperLoy Yes, hence my correction.

user19161

@Gigili Well, cartoons are not just for kids you know, if that is what you mean.

user19161

19:01

@MattЭллен So how's dinner?

user19161

@Gigili Maybe the rest of it is ads.

Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I hate to disagree, but the Bible is also a whole bunch of shitty ideas, and the "just fucking be nice already" stuff is what religious zealots continue to try to downplay and ignore.

5

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy it was acceptable, ta

Gigili

@Robusto Hey ...

I'll murder the next one who talks about religion.

user19161

0

Q: An error in a sentence

Somebody said that the following sentence in my article was wrong, but he did not mention what the problem was: "Our proposal enables the verification that an important class of errors will not occur." Could anyone tell me what can be improved here?

grammar

user19161

19:09

OT

user19161

@MattЭллен I had some brinjal just now.

Vitaly

If anyone here has a LinkedIn account, their salt-less SHA1 password hash database was leaked. You'd be well-advised to change your password.

user19161

@Vitaly Thanks for the info, have a cookie.

KitFox

@Vitaly OH! OH!

user19161

So Cerb, Reg and Kit are the winners for the most talkative people in this chat. Congrats!

skullpatrol

19:22

Who gets the least talkative award?

user19161

@skullpatrol People who never visited chat?

KitFox

@Vitaly Thanks.

skullpatrol

@JasperLoy Excuse me: " people in this chat"

user19161

@skullpatrol Er, I'm not sure how to search for that or how to define that.

user19161

@skullpatrol Oh, maybe it is you!

skullpatrol

19:25

:D

Vitaly

So the Library-of-Babel wiki article referenced Greg Bear's City and the End of Time. (I have it but haven't read it yet.) I decided to start reading it and went to check the wiki pages on the book and Greg Bear before doing so. Then I saw that Greg Bear is a deist and decided not to read it. Thank you, Wikipedia.

user19161

Hi @nimza! Why are you here today?

user19161

Hi @anon is here too!

anon

well, skull linked it

user19161

@anon What did he link?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

19:32

@Robusto true, but I submit that the religious zealots would use the Bible to justify murder and rape even if it indeed consisted of the lone sentence, "Everybody just fucking be nice."

Nimza

yes :)

anon

@JasperLoy this room

user19161

@anon lol

user19161

25 mins ago, by Gigili

I'll murder the next one who talks about religion.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy sounds like a very religious person.

Gigili

19:35

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Even more.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 But seriously I think the tone of the antireligious sentiments here have to be cut down.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Even more than very? That's a curbload of religion.

KitFox

@Vitaly You can send it to me. I'll read it.

I'm not afraid of deists.

Just dentists.

And I have to go to the dentist tomorrow.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

May 14 at 15:40, by JSBᾶngs

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 a raging antidentite.

user19161

@KitFox I am not afraid of either one.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

19:37

@JasperLoy so you object to antireligious sentiments but not to antidentist ones? You, sir, are the worst antidentite of them all.

KitFox

Yes, this is the re-scheduled appointment for the fillings on the other side of my mouth.

Robusto

@KitFox Dentists are just deists who have had to use NT.

KitFox

That's awful.

Really awful.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Hey don't hate on new technology!

Robusto

I NO RITE!!!

user19161

19:37

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Well, I don't object to antireligious sentiments. But I am saying one should not be so extreme in their remarks.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox so um, wasn't the original appointment like a month ago?

You suffered all this time????

@JasperLoy oh great. Now you summoned Jez. He will handle the not-so-extreme antireligious remarks.

Gigili

So what's NT? Noff-Topic?

user19161

In some places, people would have killed you guys for saying the stuff you have said against religion you know.

user19161

@Gigili New Testament.

Robusto

Windows NT

Windows NT is a family of operating systems produced by Microsoft, the first version of which was released in July 1993. It was a powerful high-level-language-based, processor-independent, multiprocessing, multiuser operating system with features comparable to Unix. It was intended to complement consumer versions of Windows that were based on MS-DOS. NT was the first fully 32-bit version of Windows, whereas its consumer-oriented counterparts, Windows 3.1x and Windows 9x, were 16-bit/32-bit hybrids. Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista, Windows Home Server, Window...

Funny because it's true.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

19:39

@JasperLoy in 99% of places, some animal would have killed you just for saying hello. Now what?

user19161

@Robusto I really thought you meant New Testament.

KitFox

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Well, yeah, but with the torn shoulder muscle, I wasn't really in so much pain anyway. Did I tell you that I got bumped because they wanted to schedule someone who "was really in a lot of pain"?

Robusto

@JasperLoy The thought would not have crossed my mind.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox so you are like those people who treat migraine by sniffing red chili? Respect.

KitFox

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 As much as I want you to think I am that bad ass, I merely meant that I had some good painkillers anyway.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

19:41

Oh.

Well that's... just too... female.

KitFox

splutters

punches Reg to demonstrate machismo

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

splatters

KitFox

immediately regrets it

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

dies of too lateness

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I'm just surprised that people hate religion that much.

KitFox

19:42

Sorry, fluffy owl-friend!

Oh noes!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy I'm not sure why you keep repeating "much" and "so".

KitFox

administers extreme resuscitation techniques

user19161

OK @soft with regard to your question what do you really want to say?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I don't see that much hate in this room, or any hate for that matter. You are the one amplifying mosquitoes to elephants.

3

Gigili

Wow, never head of Windows NT.

user19161

19:44

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 If you say so.

Gigili

I thought ME was the worst.

KitFox

We're filled with love here.

@Gigili NT wasn't too bad.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Yeah yeah, never gonna give you up.

Not clicking.

KitFox

As I remember, it was pretty solid.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Did you even look at where it is pointing, silly?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox of course.

skullpatrol

19:46

user19161

@KitFox Thanks for the demonstration. QED.

KitFox

Ahhahaha

yesterday, by KitFox

everybody loves stickers

I crack myself up sometimes.

user19161

@soft What does your proposal do? What does it verify?

user19161

-2

Q: An error in a sentence

Somebody said that the following sentence in my article was wrong, but he did not mention what the problem was: "Our proposal enables the verification that an important class of errors will not occur." Could anyone tell me what can be improved here?

grammar

Gigili

yesterday, by Gigili

I hate stickers.

Vitaly

19:47

@KitFox Thanks, I needed to be reminded of my—I think—favourite Hitchens phrase:

May 13 '11 at 16:51, by Vitaly

@AlainPannetier That directly translates in my mind to “I am an atheist who loves belief systems that claim that the laws of nature respond to wailings and incantations.”

KitFox

Yay me!

@Gigili I loves you, baby!

Gigili

yays Kit

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

0

Q: Is there a name for this characteristic of the human body (picture)

Is there a name for this characteristic of the human body (see the arrows in the picture below)? It seems as 'holes' on the back. I cannot able to imagine one.

single-word-requests

Haha. Someone email JA Rule.

Mitch

@Vitaly so...trying to parse that and get the direction right....

Vitaly

@Mitch Huh?

user19161

19:49

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Now I cannot go to bed.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy too much information.

Gigili

@KitFox I loves you, three.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I loves you, pie.

Mitch

@JasperLoy If the universe is infinite, then THERE WILL BE ALL POSSIBILITIES. so basically you're screwed one way or the other.

Gigili

What the hell? Aren't you going to close that?

KitFox

19:52

Mmm, π.

Mitch

@Vitaly from your comment "they seem to advocate for Bolinger's principle of no synonymy more than necessary" and "taking a strong position on a foundational debate is generally weak Bayesian evidence for willing to make shit up to support one's stance"...

Gigili

I wish I could downvote a question a million times. Like whenever it gets an upvote, I downvote.

Mitch

so an arrogant position means likely to make things up? Is that what you meant?

user19161

@Gigili Unfortunately, I don't do downvotes anymore.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You could flag it if it offends you. If five people follow suit, it will get autodeleted and the OP loses 100 reps.

Mitch

19:53

or just the conservative "nothing is synonomous without great justification" is ...

is what?

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 That's too harsh.

Mitch

is it...more likely to be nonsense/made up/bullshit (in the technical sense)?

Matt Эллен

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Vitaly

@Mitch an extreme position on an issue that is highly controversial makes the human animal more likely to make things up to support their position, that's a psychological fact

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@JasperLoy that's why it takes six people.

user19161

19:55

@Vitaly More like an opinion I would call it, not fact.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Vitaly now you're just making things up.

2

KitFox

Well, that depends on how you define opinion, I suppose.

You could call the heliocentric view of the solar system an opinion.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Mar 23 '11 at 13:35, by Robusto

The fact is, when someone begins a sentence with "the fact is," that sentence will probably contain not a single provable fact.

KitFox

The chemical structure of water is an opinion.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Wow, for once I actually agree with Robusto.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

19:57

@JasperLoy he will be flattered!

Mitch

@JasperLoy that doesn't seem very nice.

@Vitaly OK..yes..I agree..(but about human psychology...I was trying to figure out what it meant statistically)

user19161

@Mitch Wow, you seem to be rapidly reading the transcript!

Vitaly

@Mitch Oh. So you were wondering about the Bayesian part? I was referring to a specific epistemology (the word isn't right but I can't come up with a better one atm): wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Evidence

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