English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

RegDwigнt

00:33

@Robusto so violin is hard, you said. You lied to me.

At least on the violin absolutely anyone can get a sound out of it.
Using absolutely any part of their body.

Seriously though, I can't even remember when was the last time a YouTube video actually made me laugh. But I just can't watch the poor girl's face gymnastics without losing it.

Cerberus

01:01

@RegDwigнt A great demonstration of the how difficult some classical instruments are.

:45308403 Kitty?

RegDwigнt

01:14

Yeah well obviously I know that for every note you hear a musician play you don't hear the thousand notes they had to play to even get there.

But I never realized that on the flute the musician themselves never gets to hear them, either.

tchrist

@Cerberus Did you see the arête question? Any opinion about what to do with it?

I know what it means because I’ve read it used with respect to Ancient Greece, but as is pointed out in comments not even the OED covers that imported use.

RegDwigнt

Aw poor tchrist is editing that question into shape while I close it right out from underneath him.

tchrist

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is not about English, but a foreign-language word cited in an English text in a way identical to how it would be cited in most other languages. — Janus Bahs Jacquet Jun 1 at 15:54

@RegDwigнt You did.

RegDwigнt

We had a question on sports team specifically but I can never find it.

tchrist

Seems like a UK sports team are question.

Yeah, that’s the problem with that dupe.

RegDwigнt

01:27

So every time I just roll with the Microsoft one and hope that someone else finds the better fit. Which nobody ever does.

tchrist

Every day I find present-day American text that uses a collective noun with a plural verb. I think we, well or someone, mislead people.

RegDwigнt

Like, I've been looking for that question for seven years now. On twenty different occasions.

tchrist

I really would hope that the elastic search stemmer would help for finding that.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist Lately I've been noticing a lot, and I mean a lot of native speakers on YouTube always getting their verb to agree with the last noun preceding it. No matter what.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt "Strange attractors"

RegDwigнt

01:29

It's not even notional agreement. It's just oh the last word I said was plural, so this verb will be plural as well.

tchrist

Right, I'm one of the people who think that way.

RegDwigнt

British speakers, too.

Like across the board.

And I'm not sure if I suffer from some kind of recency illusion.

But it's really piling on now.

tchrist

I almost want to say that this is the result of an explosion of text that hasn't been curated according to publishing standards of written English.

No editor, no sense.

RegDwigнt

I mostly hear it on YouTube where it's either spoken spontaneously so there is no text, or it's scripted by people who I know for a fact go through their script a million times and give it to others to crosscheck.

So every which way I look at it, it's just a thing now and we'll only be seeing more of it.

tchrist

The one today was a broadcast network name (CBS, IIRC) used with a plural verb in an American publication.

RegDwigнt

01:32

Soon enough in curated editorials.

tchrist

If this is an “singular of plural are” type case, those have always been around.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist yeah but that's notional agreement and even in AmE it's been around forever just not as prominent.

tchrist

Right.

RegDwigнt

Jinx I guess.

tchrist

I worry that Microsoft may be auto-curating us into sillinesses.

Or other computer programs that people use because they can't be arsed to learn to compose proper written English.

But what you're talking about always requires actual thought.

RegDwigнt

01:35

Well I dunno. It doesn't really. Your brain is hardwired to have a stack. Even if in English it's not as deep as in German, or God forbid Dutch where it's theoretically infinite actually.

tchrist

Yeah, I never understand how they lose track of their stack.

RegDwigнt

I just refuse to believe that saying "I have a car full of apples that goes really fast" is suddenly more taxing on our brains than saying "I have a car full of apples that go really fast".

tchrist

That said, it's not abnormal for extemporaneous speech to contain the occasional random inflectional error in languages that can have such, especially across a distance or with the partial restarts characteristic of random chatter.

@RegDwigнt The wrong one is definitely taxing on mine.

Certainly I've heard native speakers of Spanish back up to correct themselves with a digo when they notice they've botched the gender or number etc.

But yeah, the uncurated stuff on the internet gets no dispensation.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist It stops being random when you binge-watch a popular YouTube channel with carefully scripted critiques, each 30 minutes long, and there's instances of this in every single one of them.

tchrist

Do you imagine these are people who didn't finish school?

I don't know. I'm sure I couldn't say those things when I was 12.

But then again, Mom's a retired schoolteacher.

RegDwigнt

01:39

And they have like 1.5 million subscribers that of course as is customary on YouTube take issue with every single tiny mistake, perceived or real, but not one of them ever comments how "a car" in English is singular and not plural.

So in conclusion, it totally is a thing now, on both sides of the pond.

English is getting simpler still, folks!

Who knows, maybe we'll kick out the articles after all before Trump even resigns.

tchrist

At the Perl Conference last week I heard a native speaker repeatably pronounce immiscible with an /sk/. I felt really bad for him because he kept doing it. But I couldn't bring myself to tell him, even privately later.

And I know he finished college.

RegDwigнt

Axetera.

tchrist

I figure somebody else can be the bearer of bad news. I didn't want him to remember me as That Guy.

RegDwigнt

And that is how language changes. One idiot says "boef" instead of "cow", and everyone looks the other way. Until they look back and suddenly the fields are full of grazing bovines.

tchrist

When I read/hear all that stuff you're talking about I sometimes feel like a good education is wasted, like I wasted my time learning to do things right when there's apparently no penalty for doing things wrong.

RegDwigнt

01:44

Well there isn't really. It's all just status. Class society.

tchrist

So using language the way you’re “supposed to” is just a class marker?

Now you sound like Lawler.

I just read John Scalzi’s The Collapsing Empire from 2016, and 3 of his 4 uses of whomever should have been whoever. I was disappointed.

RegDwigнt

The usual argument goes that people will think less of you somehow, but the truth is, most people won't because in order to realize that you even made a mistake they have to be educated themselves.

Being an idiot is not a problem when everyone else is.

I know Cerberus will violently disagree with that, as he indeed has many times in the past. But that's how it's.

tchrist

Yes, it's just that. Once you have tasted of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad grammar, you cannot disregard noticing the difference. But few ever do, so you've wasted your apple.

RegDwigнt

It's not language tho. It's everything. Maths, music.

tchrist

I know.

RegDwigнt

01:48

What's that thingie's name again. Dunning-Kruger.

Business as usual.

tchrist

See Ancient Greek arête, to ping @Cerberus again.

Trumpeting the Death of Excellence

RegDwigнt

The worst thing is like, when someone corrects someone on YouTube or wherever and then immediately suffixes it with "sorry". Or prefixes it with "don't want to be that guy, but".

No, not sorry. That idiot should be sorry, not you.

They are the one who couldn't learn the proper spelling of "its", which hundreds of millions of other people from all over the world mastered in first grade.

tchrist

Like this poor girl:

From far and wide, they’ve come to list-
        en, watch, and judge her plea.
Beneath the lights her skin aglist-
        en drips and drabbles free.
Before she speaks she stops to moist-
        en lips all cracked and dry;
Refreshed for now, she lifts her voice
        and pleading asks them, “Why?”
She tells them just how much, how oft-
        en all well-spoken men
That certain t’s they oft would soft-
        en up, and how and when.
This once a trait of working class
        infects its rulers too,

RegDwigнt

Jan 1 at 17:37, by Robusto

Lamb 'n' jam
is nicer than lamb
enjamb-
(at least that's what I)
-ment.

tchrist

When even the well-educated say ofTen, the battle is lost.

RegDwigнt

01:51

Well careful there, that's RP for you.

That's how I was taught it in school.

tchrist

Yes, I've heard ER2 do it.

RegDwigнt

I also say buth and puth.

tchrist

I was shockèd.

RegDwigнt

And cuhn't.

tchrist

She tells them just how much, how oft-
        en all well-spoken men
That certain t’s they oft would soft-
        en up, and how and when.
This once a trait of working class
        infects its rulers too,
Who know no better than to fast-
        en t’s where once taboo.

Which was whom I was referring to there in my Ballad of Shameless Enjambment.

RegDwigнt

01:53

I'm not quite sure as to what the purpose of those enj-ambments is in the first place.

tchrist

I'm trying to trick the reader into pronouncing a T they aren't supposed to.

RegDwigнt

Well whatever. I suppose it's in y'all's DNA after having to recite the fucking Star-Spangled Banner a thousand times too many.

One flew o'er th' c'ckoo's n'st.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Few have the range for that, you do realize.

RegDwigнt

Well that was its whole purpose.

But we discussed I believe.

tchrist

Stephen Colbert performs the national anthem at Citi Field

►

That's going to surprise you.

RegDwigнt

01:55

Like I certainly did, but I think I actually discussed it with you as well.

tchrist

Mayhap.

I remember nothing.

Except the things that never happened.

How fare your tomatoes?

RegDwigнt

Well anyway. It was specifically written to be unsingable. Like, it wasn't even an accident or lack of skill. Quite the opposite.

But then a hundred years later they had to go and appropriate it for the Anthem.

Now that was lack of skill I should say.

@tchrist I've not grown any in the last couple years. But I keep thinking I should resume next year.

tchrist

The original “Anacreon in Heaven” was supposed to be unsingable??

RegDwigнt

This year's obviously way too late already.

@tchrist that's how I remember it.

Well not unsingable per se, but a challenge.

Possibly a prank.

It was specifically crafted with that purpose in mind.

tchrist

In Bb major, its high note is an F. People who aren't singers can seldom manage even that. And play it in C and now you have a G so you can just give up on the general populace.

RegDwigнt

02:00

Why would you play it in C and not in A, then.

That's only three sharps.

tchrist

Play it in A and it's too low for tenors and sopranos.

Here's the original:

amhistory.si.edu/starspangledbanner/mp3/song.anac.dsl.mp3

The old British belting song.

Colbert was clever; he did harmony beneath his partner's high melody.

"America the Beautiful" makes for a better national anthem on so many levels.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist That's my range actually. I'd feel more comfortable singing it a tone higher. The lowest note is pretty much the lowest I can manage. The heights I can go higher.

Let me just check what my violin transcription says that I've prepared for July 4th.

tchrist

I can make it to a high G without too terribly much pain, at least in the afternoon or evening. But I'm more comfortable around Eb especially in the morning. But by night I can't get below a C.

RegDwigнt

D major. I should've guessed. It's the violin after all. Everything's D major.

tchrist

Yes, and D major used to be horribly high.

No, lower.

Sorry.

It wasn't A 440 when Bach had all those tenors singing an A.

In D major.

Why in the world are you preforming something on the 4th of July that isn't the 1812 Overture? :)

RegDwigнt

02:07

@tchrist I'm not performing it.

I just transcribe shit for violin duets.

tchrist

Oh good.

RegDwigнt

And recently I've been trying to make it more, uh what's the English word. Current-date-related.

tchrist

High A, of course.

Cerberus

0

A: What does "[arête]" mean, inside of a quote?

This addition in square brackets is not supposed to be part of the running text; it is a note to inform the reader that moral excellence is the term that this translator chose for the Greek word ἀρετή. The purpose of such a note is to allow those who know some Greek to understand the possible nua...

tchrist

@Cerberus Thanks!

RegDwigнt

02:09

@tchrist third finger first position. Doesn't get any more beginner-friendly than that.

tchrist

I wish you had a chance to talk with Larry Wall sometime. He can go on and on about violin stuff.

RegDwigнt

Well. Tell him to like share and subscribe.

tchrist

:)

RegDwigнt

I'm on Twitter and Facebook now. And SoundSlice. Even started a YouTube channel. It's really hard to miss me even without swinging a dead cat.

tchrist

Did I tell you he grew up thinking his family were German but it turns out that they were from the German-speaking pocket of Belgium?

RegDwigнt

02:11

Or just tell him to pop in here, like.

@tchrist you did not.

tchrist

The social media will consume you.

RegDwigнt

Nah, I'm too old for that shit.

I'm just doing the bare minimum necessary to not become senile.

Hence learning the violin.

tchrist

I don't know that it's even reasonable to map all those little "states" from back when there were Electors and Stadtholders and such to modern countries. German-speaking seems German enough to be German, Germany notwithstanding.

RegDwigнt

Also and perhaps more to the point I'm too asocial for the media. Them's scared of me and not the other way round.

@tchrist yeah well. It certainly is no UK in terms of density but maybe actually not too far behind in terms of variety.

Like Bavarians can't even agree between themselves that all of Bavaria is really Bavaria and not half of it France.

tchrist

But I still know people who think they're "Czechoslovakian", despite their origin now lying in Czechia.

RegDwigнt

02:16

Well certainly their origin still lies where it lied.

Like, I'm not from Russia. I'm from the USSR.

Cerberus

41 mins ago, by RegDwigнt

Well I dunno. It doesn't really. Your brain is hardwired to have a stack. Even if in English it's not as deep as in German, or God forbid Dutch where it's theoretically infinite actually.

tchrist

And they.

Cerberus

WHAT IS THIS ABOUT DUTCH

RegDwigнt

It's how you stack verbs.

Cerberus

EXPLAIN THYSELF

tchrist

02:17

Wait, Dutch is worse than written German in that regard!?

This surprises me. But I know no Dutch.

Cerberus

I don't know what he means.

RegDwigнt

Years ago I had a long argument about that with a colleague who was both a better linguist and a better programmer than myself and he was also the nicest guy ever, but this one time I managed to drive him furious.

@Cerberus we talked about it before. Of course you don't.

tchrist

And verbs not just objects that stack oddly?

RegDwigнt

It's how you stack verbs in sentences such as "Tom saw Reg help Cerberus swim".

tchrist

Like "I now will you this story tell".

Cerberus

02:18

Okay.

RegDwigнt

In Dutch the stack just grows forever.

In other languages it's cut off after a threshold that's usually no higher than 2.

Cerberus

And how is Dutch different from German, except that German needs one of those at the end that Dutch doesn't?

Can you give an example?

RegDwigнt

I just did. It's your job to translate that into Dutch.

Cerberus

Tom zag Reg Cerberus helpen zwemmen.

RegDwigнt

Exactly.

And in German it would be zwemmen helpen.

Cerberus

02:19

Tom sah Reg Cerberus schwimmen hilfen.

tchrist

Which is little holpen.

Cerberus

Right, that's what I gathered.

RegDwigнt

With two verbs you might think WTF that's not even a difference.

But the thing is, if you continue piling up, in Dutch it continues to pile up. In German it does not.

tchrist

German really gets to stop at two?

I always bailed. :)

RegDwigнt

Well every language does except Dutch.

They just keep FILAing their merry way through their existence. Which might very much end before they end a sentence.

Cerberus

02:21

Tom zag Reg Cerberus helpen leren zwemmen.

RegDwigнt

See. It's happening before our very eyes.

Cerberus

It's hard to add another verb because it makes the sentence too complex to parse.

RegDwigнt

Exactly.

Thank you.

Precisely my point.

tchrist

I need to go run help call Mom.

RegDwigнt

It's taxing on the brain.

Because the stack is just too large.

Cerberus

02:22

Yes.

RegDwigнt

It requires more processing power than other languages.

Cerberus

So what happens in German?

RegDwigнt

Which is what that smart guy argued and I was like meh.

@Cerberus nothing much. You just put one verb at the end of every sentence and the rest can do whatever.

Cerberus

@tchrist Surely that's not right?

@RegDwigнt Okay, so then you have the same problem of complexity, just in a slightly different word order?

tchrist

@Cerberus It should probably be "I need to run go help call Mom" or something.

RegDwigнt

02:24

No, computationally it's not the same complexity at all.

Just like tchrist's sentence isn't.

Because it does not have a stack.

tchrist

It's just catenative.

A chain.

RegDwigнt

Exactly.

You don't need to keep track of which verb belongs to what in the reverse order earlier in the sentence.

tchrist

I always imagined Dutch "must" be simpler than German.

Maybe in morphology but not in syntax?

RegDwigнt

Well. It is when you read it. It's not at all when you hear it.

Like, I can literally understand -101% of spoken Dutch.

Cerberus

@tchrist But this is not proper English?

tchrist

02:27

Because you aren't "lexing" out the individual word boundaries?

RegDwigнt

Well. It's like Portuguese but without any vowels.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt So what is it in German?

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Portuguese doesn't have vowels. This is the problem. :)

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus as I said, you just need to save up one verb for the end of the sentence. The rest you can get rid of along the way any time you please.

tchrist

@Cerberus I dunno. You can chain a whole lot of those catenative thingies together.

RegDwigнt

02:28

@tchrist exactly my point. Thank you.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Hmm too bad. I have this very nice, informational video about the German elections (made just before the last elections) for you. But you probably won't be able to follow it?

tchrist

At least with Italian when they say a word you don't know, you know which word to look up.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt So can you translate that sentence into German, Tom zag Reg Cerberus helpen leren zwemmen?

RegDwigнt

Like, all of Dutch is just them trying, and failing, to pronounce either /s/ or /ʃ/. That is all of the language.

Cerberus

@tchrist I get each one except run go.

RegDwigнt

02:29

Tom sah Reg Cerberus schwimmen lernen helfen.

Cerberus

Right.

So why is that more or less complex?

You somehow can't add more verbs, not even in theory?

RegDwigнt

Because one is first-in-first-out, and the other first-in-last-out.

Cerberus

The verbs, the nouns, or both?

RegDwigнt

The verbs in relation to the nouns.

I am actually too tired to even think about it now. But no matter, in a couple months you'll forget all about it. Again.

Cerberus

I'm afraid I still don't understand. I don't see how the order of the nouns bears any relation to the order the verbs?

You may try to help explain swim it next time.

RegDwigнt

02:33

Yeah I might. But probably I'll just google for a paper or something.

There must be like a million by now with fancy maths formulas and all that immediately explain themselves.

Like, if Kosmo were around he'd just produce like ten out of his pocket, I wager.

Alas, I'm no Kosmo.

Cosmo Kramer, maybe.

tchrist

(really am on the phone with Mom)

RegDwigнt

Yeah that happens to me a lot every time I'm at work.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Probably.

I haven't seen him in a long time.

@tchrist Ah, I was wondering about that already.

@RegDwigнt In my experience, this kind of attraction is quite common.

But maybe the error is more common in Dutch than in English. I don't remember in which language I see it more often.

Were you suffering from Dunning–Kruger or Baader–Meinhof?

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus Could be. I dunno. I'm subscribed to a ton of eloquent people producing elaborate 30-minute critiques, but I've only noticed that agreement thingie recently only with one of them.

Cerberus

All I know is it's a common error.

RegDwigнt

02:41

@Cerberus I'm actually suffering from being tired, and looking at the clock I now understand how come.

@Cerberus yeah that's my point really. It's all over the place now. It's exploded.

Cerberus

But I haven't noticed a sudden increase myself.

RegDwigнt

Well maybe you should stop following Ariana Grande and start following some I dunno archaeology channels.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt It depends on the case, but it can also be a penalty in comprehensibility, and aesthetics.

@RegDwigнt I don't follow channels.

I did not have any specific source in mind.

RegDwigнt

My list is like 50% music theory, 10% linguistics, 5% maths, 30% gaming. That is my sample.

Cerberus

My sample is the universe.

RegDwigнt

02:43

Random numbers obviously, I've not really calculated anything to any degree of accuracy.

Anyway. I'm going to bed. I need to finish composing three pieces tomorrow. And buy a flute just to spit in the face of everyone who can't play it first try.

Say nighty night to Tchrist.

Über und aus.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Go with the Akkusativ when used in abstract senses.

No, wait, that's über und auf.

Damn it.

Aus bei mit nach seit von zu.

I remember trying my friend's flute when I was like 8 or so.

I could at least get some sound out of it!

And, don't even bother trying to make jokes. My friend was a she.

Færd

03:12

@RegDwigнt That's not an English peculiarity.

I've noticed it too.

@Mitch I think it follows the mechanical rule where every noun could be turned into a verb. So if groove as a noun means top form, to groove sth is supposed to mean to make it into its top form.

But those mechanical rules don't deserve dictionary registration unless they enjoy common usage and acknowledgement as well.

@Mitch Here, here.

Feeds

05:06

0

Q: What is the word for 'slow change of direction'?

While combing through an article I was proofreading, I came to a sentence: "I slowly swerved towards Computer Science." The sentiment that the sentence tries to convey is of a slow change towards computer science, but swerve means, according to the dictionary, a sudden/abrupt change in directio...

Feeds

08:08

0

Q: Why isn't traverse-able a word?

Dealing with animation, I often want to described a surface that can be generally traversed as "traversable," but every time I type that word anywhere, including stack exchange, it says it's not a real word, though it seems like it should be. What other word could I use to capture a variety of me...

single-word-requests word-usage expression-choice

Feeds

09:32

0

Q: What do you call a person that cant see that he or she is wrong.

I was wondering what you call a person or how you can describe a person that cannot see that he or she is wrong even when the people around her present evidence that he or she is actually wrong. And then goes on to say that everybody around him or her is against them.

single-word-requests personality

Feeds

10:06

0

Q: Alternative words

I am after alternative words the describe guest lists but with a more VIP feel. Can be a singular word or multiple words. Thanks

single-word-requests

Robusto

13:14

@RegDwigнt The first time I picked up a flute I could get two octaves out of it. So ... it was easy for me.

@RegDwigнt Nobody says "over and out" in radio communications. Out is out ... meaning we're done, no further communication issued or received.

@Færd The noun groove is usually verbed intransitively:

The Young Rascals - GROOVIN'

►

Feeds

0

Q: What are signs at tourist locations known as?

Is there an official name for the signs you find at tourist locations? Example - a sign at the head of a trail that may show the trail maps, the name of the trail/area and maybe some historical or geological information? Another example is a sign at a scenic outlook that explains what can be se...

single-word-requests

RegDwigнt

14:00

@Robusto and you're telling that to me like I don't know it because?

I think in this room alone it's been previously mentioned like 9004 times. And I knew it 9004 days before this room even existed.

I shouldn't have gone on hiatus for this long, you seem to have forgotten that back in the day I would sign off every day by making some kind of pun on "over and out". Heck, even I myself forgot all about it and only remembered it after typing it again yesterady.

@Robusto how did you know where the fingers went? I know nothing about the flute, so I just assume it's like with all the other instruments where any two neighboring notes on the staff have fingerings that are as different from one another as you could possibly make them.

I blame Bach.

(Don't know anything about the flute, so I just assume it was Bach who invented it.)

Robusto

14:17

@RegDwigнt I just knew. My fingers fit the keys right off the git-go.

I had played recorder some prior to that, but that's about it for wind instruments.

But what on piano would be your 2-3-4 fingers fit nicely onto the flute keys on top, with your left thumb handling the B and your right supporting the flute body.

tchrist

Looked to me like the kid just couldn't find the blow-hole.

Robusto

Little fingers handle G# and low C. (And, on a concert flute, the low B as well.)

@tchrist It felt to me like he was trying not to make a coherent sound.

tchrist

yeah

Robusto

One instrument that has baffled me is the shakuhachi. Not a transverse blow-hole, but I thought I ought to be able to at least get a sound out of it. I received one from a friend in Japan about 20 years ago and so far I'm completely stymied.

I thought it might be because I was too accustomed to the flute embouchure, but a friend of mine who was principal in Civic when I was in the orchestra picked it right up. "What, this is hard?" ("Fuck you," I thought.)

tchrist

Embouchure would have been my guess for where the problem lay.

Robusto

14:25

Hah, I typoed that one.

@tchrist It's also probably partly tonal concept. Shakuhachi has a much breathier sound.

tchrist

The House of Al Saud has condescended to let women drive; whatever can be next?

Robusto

Shakuhachi to Flute

►

tchrist

listens

I've always been astonished that one can get a vibrato out of a flute.

Robusto

Why? It's all about breath control and manipulation of the diaphragm.

And playing the flute is all about breathing.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto well he does play in the Sydney Symphony so who knows, but from watching those guys' other joke videos his attempts in this one seemed rather genuine to me. Note how he does get better over time. He also checks his fingering a couple times, like someone who's genuinely trying to play the damn thing right.

tchrist

14:34

Because it's not finger-wiggling like on a violin.

Robusto

You use more air with a flute than with any other instrument save tuba.

@RegDwigнt What does he play in the Sidney Symphony? Not flute, surely.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Well there's those seven-foot long recorders of which there's only two or three in the world. I think those ones take the cake.

@Robusto violin.

Robusto

There you go.

RegDwigнt

There I go what. I'm no longer sure which side of the issue you're on. I was replying to you saying that he probably can do better, but now you're sorta saying that he can't. I'm confused.

Anyway where's that recorder.

Robusto

Yeah, I'm sure an alpehnorn takes more air as well. Riiiiiiicola!!!

RegDwigнt

14:38

THE WORLD'S BIGGEST RECORDER!

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Robusto

But for the standard symphonic instruments, what I said applies.

RegDwigнt

Nobody play the tuba anyway. Fuck tuba. Euphonium FTW.

Last night on YouTube I watched an orchestrator go over each note in Holst's Planets. He managed like five bars in just under two hours. He plans on doing the entire thing. It's fucken awesome.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Going over how? The notes are all in the score.

RegDwigнt

Yeah that's what I wondered before clicking. And it was the best thing ever. Going over as in every respect you could imagine and every respect that you couldn't. It's really quite amazing.

He talks about everything. Keys, registers, blends, articulation. For every instrument. Every note. Dude's crazy.

The Planets, Mars Part 1: Opening - Fig IV

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Robusto

Hmm, I'll watch it when I have more time.

Thought I think it would be more interesting to do some Stravinsky, or Strauss, or Ravel.

Those were the top orchestrators, in my book.

RegDwigнt

14:45

Ravel, yes.

He's done some Ravel and Boulanger. Maybe Stravinsky too. But not to this degree of granularity.

I learned so much shit from these 1:22 hours last night, simply having him talk in the background while playing Fallout Shelter on my Switch.

Robusto

Check this out for orchestration:

R. Strauss: Salome, Op.54, TrV 215 / Scene 4 - Salome's Dance Of The Seven Veils

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At about 1:04 the flute comes in, and it's magnificent. That's James Galway, btw. The bastard.

I mean, if you want to hear a flute solo that can be heard over a truck horn, he's the man to call.

Cerberus

> „Hat man sein warum? des Lebens, so verträgt man sich fast mit jedem wie? – Der Mensch strebt nicht nach Glück; nur der Engländer tut das” (Friedrich Nietzsche).

Oh, was this the English room.

tchrist

Du sagst.

Most beautiful Bach Prelude ever plus insane Fugue! BWV 873

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RegDwigнt

Robusto

@RegDwigнt You must have a defektiv YouTube

tchrist

14:54

There's just something about ¹²⁄₁₆ at dotted-quarter = 120 that scares the bejeebowitz out of me.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Search for Dance of the Seven Veils, Strauss, von Karajan. It must be available in your COuntry.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Yeah for reals now it caught me off guard. I've not seen that stupid smiley in years. Ever since they managed to agree with GEMA, every video was available in my country again. But apparently now people can just block their shit in individual countries themselves? Why?

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I mean, it's fucken Berlin ... you can't get any Berliner Philharmoniker recordings in fucken Deutschland?

RegDwigнt

I can get the Hamburg Symphony apparently.

Robusto

Nope.

Ain't da same.

RegDwigнt

14:57