English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

9:00 PM

Which are mostly sensible anyway.

RegDwigнt

Yeah I think they managed to google that by now. After the poll.

Cerberus

Except that now they won't get a say in policy and new rules any more.

Heh.

The one good thing that may come out of this is that we can now finally regulate financial institutions, without British obstruction.

We've lost perhaps the world's biggest tax haven (the British colonies).

RegDwigнt

So anyway. That's my point. I know a few folks from the UK with whom I talk almost every day on Xbox Live, and they are all just like me just like everyone in the Internet Age. They want to stay online and not care about any of this offline shit. But now they have to. And that's what spoils the broth for them. Not the fact that X is happening but that they have to care about it.

Cerberus

They don't necessarily have to.

It's not the end of the world.

RegDwigнt

Well it can be if you're like 20 and have to go looking for your first job and your economy is changing underneath you and you're not even sure what "economy" means.

Or if you're 40 with two kids and the economy is changing underneath you and you're all too well aware what the fuck that means.

Cerberus

9:08 PM

@RegDwigнt Right, but that happens every odd years anyway.

Now it will happen more often and somewhat more severely, probably.

Even in times of crisis, the large majority of people in England will still be employed.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus Yeah that's a good point which is why many people can still look the other way and play Xbox Live rather than caring.

Cerberus

Even in Greece this was the case, and I don't think England will suffer that much.

@RegDwigнt Or they could play with their xboxes and care anyway.

Care but don't despair.

RegDwigнt

But that's orthogonal to my original point, that it's not the fact whether X happened that upsets people but whether it affects them.

Cerberus

Okay.

RegDwigнt

So Trump doesn't affect me, and neither does Merkel or Putin for that matter, and so I don't even know if any of them is even still in power but if they are good for them.

That's the level of healthy ignorance I've built around myself.

Cerberus

9:12 PM

Can't you care a little bit, but not too much?

RegDwigнt

What is the point.

Caring a tiny amount about a million things still drains you.

I'd rather care a huge amount about the people next to me.-

Because that's where my responisibilities lie and my skills apply.

Everything else I can do fuck all about so what's the point in even knowing what it contains.

Mitch

@Cerberus berlusconi is certain?

RegDwigнt

Why would I care that 500 drowned in the Mediterranean again. Or that there's still child soldiers in Angola. Or that Trump got re-elected.

I can do fuck all about it. And even if cared about it nobody cares if I do.

Cerberus

@Mitch He is like an immortal vampire. He will always return.

RegDwigнt

Nobody even knows that I exist. Those child soldiers sure don't. Trump doesn't. Those drowned refugees never will.

Mitch

9:15 PM

But he's not certain to win again right?

I thought he came in 4th in a recent runoff and so he's out

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Well, you have some small amount of influence on politics. By voting, by discussing stuff with people and so influencing public opinion a little bit, by posting stuff online, etc.

RegDwigнt

Posting stuff online doesn't change anything. Because everyone posts stuff online. And nobody reads it. And the stuff that you read is stuff in your own bubble that you could've written yourself.

Mitch

Reg is running. That's how it starts

Cerberus

@Mitch His party got 25% of the votes last elections, but, yes, he's no part of the current government.

For now...

RegDwigнt

Voting is not an option for me because Putin votes for himself so thanks to him that saves me some effort.

Cerberus

9:17 PM

@RegDwigнt That's a simplification.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus no, it is true.

I have written thousands of pages worth of prose on the Iraq war back in the day.

All up on Reddit to this day.

End result: none.

Cerberus

Various people might read your stuff, not only people who already agree with you on absolutely every single thing.

RegDwigнt

That's a simplification.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt You don't know that.

Mitch

Isis is reg's fault

RegDwigнt

9:19 PM

@Cerberus I know because I lived to witness history.

Cerberus

We are all part of civil society.

We're cogs.

RegDwigнt

That's a very naive view.

Cerberus

We may each have a smaller or larger influence on things.

Mitch

History is made by great men

Or total retards

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus we all have a huge influence on a whole number of things. And that's what I say. Focus on those damn things. Clean your room. Fix your marriage. Call your mom. These are the things that matter.

You're one huge cog in that context.

So do something.

Rather than sitting on the Internet writing up about how Bush is wrong.

Cerberus

9:21 PM

@RegDwigнt Maybe you could convince me of X. And I might talk to a friend who is a lobbyist, and someone else might talk to a senator, and it might be picked up by some party that asks questions in parliament, and larger parties might agree to some extent and question the PM, and he might talk about it with Merkel or the EC.

You never know.

tchrist

goes back to doing his dirty laundry, knowing that it matters

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Of course those things are more important in one's life.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus yes and while I'm doing all that I forget to check on a close friend and he dies of cancer.

Fuck the lobbyist. I care about my friend.

Cerberus

Then call him.

RegDwigнt

Exactly. Thank you.

Mitch

9:22 PM

@tchrist calls reg's mom. Because it matters

Cerberus

If your point was that we shouldn't neglect the people we care about, then of course I agree.

RegDwigнt

@Mitch She'd be happy that you did and tell you all about how much better you are than me for doing it.

Mitch

We should really encourage our moms to call each other. Then they could talk about us.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus my point is that I have X amount of energy and Y amount of time. Every second I'm spending here with you I'm not building with LEGO. Every second I'm building with LEGO I'm not playing the violin. Every second I'm playing the violin I'm not playing the piano. And then oh look at the clock, it's midnight already. And now you want to bring Trump into this equation? Fuck that.

Mitch

Dads on the other hand...

RegDwigнt

9:25 PM

Yeah moms already do that.

Not your particular mom with my particular mom but moms in general, that's their pastime alright.

Mitch

Haha. Cripes the things they're saying about us

RegDwigнt

I could ghostwrite half those things. I'm old enough for self-assessment.

Mitch

You're not good enough for her but those other kids aren't as good as you

Spirituality is a load of horseshit

Did I say that out loud?

checks earphones_

RegDwigнt

No, I have the chat muted.

Mitch

Whew. No i just thought it real loud

Cerberus

9:29 PM

Keep it down, will you!

What will the neighbours think.

Mitch

Oh I know already

They're loud thinkers too

Eww

There are just some thoughts you don't want to know other people have

Ewwwwe

I need a toothbrush for my brain

Cerberus

But we know they have them.

Mitch

And then rinse it with orange juice

tchrist

Hard-hat calibre hail.

Cerberus

Wow.

That could be lethal.

tchrist

9:37 PM

YES!

That was from last week here.

Cerberus

I wonder at what speed they fell at ground level.

tchrist

"Terminal velocity" if it's lethal. :)

Cerberus

Quite.

tchrist

About a hundred, I think.

Cerberus

I'll ask the people when they arrive at the Lethe.

Mitch

9:39 PM

What happened to all the pillow talk?

Cerberus

A hundred km/h??

That's more than lethal!

Robusto

@tchrist Do they make good soufflés?

tchrist

No, mph of course.

Cerberus

@Mitch Yes, you'd need a pillow on your head.

@tchrist Even more lethal.

tchrist

Robusto

9:42 PM

Hail from hell. Texas baby! Abilene, TX 04/24/2011

►

tchrist

Apparently a lot of people's rooftop photovoltaic solar installations were destroyed.

Mitch

@tchrist unintended consequences

Robusto

Bite your tongue. I have one of those and I hope never to see that kind of hail here.

Mitch

solar is great, but...

Cerberus

@tchrist Ouch! Both the glass and the plastic broke.

Robusto

9:43 PM

You Europeans don't have super-cell thunderstorms, do you? I don't think you get tornadoes either, right?

Mitch

like what if it snows like a foot? will the panel supports handle the weight?

but household solar panels go flat on the roof I suppose

Robusto

@Mitch Snow is not a problem, but hail would be.

Mitch

They're putting up all sorts of panels along the highways here.

tchrist

It sounds like artillery fire on the rooves.

If you're beneath it.

Mitch

all on supports.

sure it'll eventually melt, but can the poles supporting the panels stand the weight?

You'd think that the people designing it would have thought of that.

Cerberus

9:45 PM

@Robusto Nice.

Mitch

but they didn't think of hail, did they

Cerberus

Most of those balls don't seem to be solid, though?

Robusto

Mine are rated to withstand 100 mph winds, so they must have enough strength to withstand weight.

tchrist

Cerberus

They seem to break apart fairly easily.

tchrist

9:46 PM

Never seen BLACK there before.

Robusto

@Cerberus They are agglomerations of smaller particles.

Mitch

@Cerberus they're solid but they're light

the problem is that they're hard ice

Cerberus

@Robusto Indeed not: the wind blows in your general direction, I believe.

Mitch

lots of air mixed in

Cerberus

Do your western coasts have tornadoes?

Robusto

9:47 PM

@Cerberus Not really.

Mitch

@Cerberus they have earthquakes and forest fires.

tchrist

> Between 1950 and 2013, there were 403 confirmed tornadoes in California, coming out to an average of around 6 or 7 tornadoes per year. The vast majority of them occurred in the Central Valley, but you can see a tight cluster of tornadoes down around Los Angeles.

Mitch

don't really need tornadoes

Robusto

But every state in the union has had tornadoes.

Cerberus

@Robusto Right, so then it's hard to say how bad it would really be.

Robusto

9:48 PM

@tchrist But that's not really coastal.

Cerberus

@Mitch Yeah, exactly. They're smaller bits of ice stuck together.

@Robusto Hmm maybe we're protected by all of Asia, then.

Robusto

What causes the hail is the moisture getting pushed higher by updrafts, freezing, then falling down to the unfrozen water, getting coated again, then pushed back up. Rinse and repeat until the object is too heavy to remain aloft.

tchrist

Cerberus

I see.

Mitch

@Cerberus You guys don't get tornadoes but you do get terrible rain sometimes and sometimes terrible microbursts

tchrist

9:50 PM

European tornadoes since Y2K.

Cerberus

@Mitch Mm but it's nothing too terrible.

Mitch

@Cerberus not often

but tchrists map

Cerberus

Or maybe it's because our houses are made of brick, not wood.

Haven't we had this conversation before?

Robusto

We have had storm systems here that have released hundreds of tornadoes that swept across the midwest.

2011 Super Outbreak

The 2011 Super Outbreak was the largest, costliest, and one of the deadliest tornado outbreaks ever recorded, affecting the Southern, Midwestern, and Northeastern United States and leaving catastrophic destruction in its wake. The event affected Alabama and Mississippi the most severely, but it also produced destructive tornadoes in Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee and Virginia, and affected many other areas throughout the Southern and Eastern United States. In total, 360 tornadoes were confirmed by NOAA's National Weather Service (NWS) and Government of Canada's Environment Canada in 21 states from...

Cerberus

I have to admit, I have to look up what each kind of windy phaenomenon means every time.

Tornado, typhoon, hurricane, storm, cyclone.

Mitch

9:52 PM

@Cerberus concrete

tchrist

You have to look up what a tornado is???

Robusto

This one knocked down a tree in front of my son's dorm in Massachusetts.

Cerberus

Concrete, too.

@tchrist Yes.

tchrist

sends Cerb to Kansas for a summer

Mitch

foundations in the US are poured concrete, but we stop there. seems kind of silly

tchrist

9:53 PM

Nothing like first-hand experience to lock down definitions, not to mention to put the fear of God in you.

Robusto

@tchrist Hey, he didn't do anything to deserve Kansas.

Cerberus

So I don't know whether my house is still standing after 400 years because it's sturdy or because we have no truly bad weather.

tchrist

"Tornado" has the turning part built right into it.

Robusto

@Cerberus Or because the buoyancy of your spirit keeps it from falling down?

Cerberus

So does cyclone.

And don't hurricane's also turn?

And typhoons as well?

@Robusto barf

Robusto

9:54 PM

@Cerberus It's a difference in scale.

Cerberus

I'm as cynical as a Russian.

Robusto

Instead of going to Kansas:

Cerberus

@Robusto Yeah, but I can never remember which is which and what other more subtle differences there are.

Robusto

MONSTER TORNADO Compilation - BIGGEST Tornadoes on Earth!

►

Mitch

Fun fact: the great Red Spot on Jupiter is slowly getting smaller. It's like a hurricane that's losing power

tchrist

9:56 PM

They call them TWISTERS for a reason you know.

Cerberus

Yeah, we have those smaller cyclic phaenomena, but they're extremely rare.

Mitch

@Cerberus what's neat is that there's nothing in between

tchrist

And I refuse to believe you have to look up storm. You're fibbing.

Cerberus

@Mitch Oh, really?

@tchrist Ah, there's another term.

Mitch

There are dust devils and water spouts which are mini tornadoes, and those little twists that pick up leaves and spin them around.

Cerberus

9:57 PM

@tchrist Storm is to me just a very general term.

Like the Dutch word.

Does anything strike you as odd about this church?

Mitch

@Cerberus Yeah. a hurricane covers hundreds of miles. a tornado at most 1 or 2 but usually tens of yards

tchrist

"Fire tornado" Australia HD -clearest ever capture in nature

►

Cerberus

@Mitch Right! I'll try to remember for at least a week this time.

tchrist

The deadly winds are NOT just in the visible part.

The best way to avoid tornadoes is to live in the mountains.

RegDwigнt

So someone just used word X in their question and I commented hey cool you used word X in your question and they were like WTF where did I do that.

Ah the Internet in a nutshell.

Mitch

10:02 PM

@Cerberus I'm sure we've had the conversation before, and will many more times. like with housing construction and concrete

RegDwigнt

Not only do people not read their own stuff, they don't even know how to Strg+F through it.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt I've never used the word X in my stuff

Robusto

@RegDwigнt And they didn't block you and say they were already dating someone?

Mitch

Oh goddammit I have.

RegDwigнt

Like literally a week ago I watched a video by a gifted violinist she herself produced and edited. She's German but speaks English on YouTube. And at one point in the video she talked about overtones and then spent twenty seconds apologizing to her viewers that she didn't know if "overtone" was the English word for that but that's what we say in German.

And I was like facepalm cringe.

Cerberus

10:05 PM

@tchrist Impressive.

Robusto

Apparently 300 tornadoes hit Europe every year, but they're of the weak-ass Continental variety and many of the ones that are claimed turn out to be swirls in the toilet bowl.

RegDwigнt

Girl, in the twenty seconds that you used to explain how you don't know if that's the word you could have googled ten times to find out.

tchrist

That unearthly greenish color that says you're about to get walloped is really scary.

Cerberus

@Mitch Yay!

And will we be having this conversation again as well?

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I see why Internet chicks don't want to date you now.

RegDwigнt

10:06 PM

That's a fair point to make except they never get that far as to even find out.

Robusto

Well, enough fun and destructive storms and all. I have to go get some ramen. Priorities, you know. Laterz all.

RegDwigнt

Like, I didn't comment that on her video. I just thought to myself okay so here's a professional musician with a ton of teachers who all speak English and not only does she not know the word "overtone" but she doesn't even know the word "google".

CU.

Mitch

@Cerberus Oh, this conversation? We've definitely had this before.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto at any rate, my real beef with that is not that she wasted 20 seconds of her time but that she's now wasted 20 seconds of the time of every single one of her viewers.

Like all those billions YouTube comments that just ask "there's word soandso in video I don't understand what means word soandso".

Mitch

If you had used X we'd all understand

RegDwigнt

10:10 PM

It's not that they are wasting their time with typing that up and could have found it out by then. It's that they are wasting mine.

Mitch

Look man they're on screen. They don't have time for this googling crap

when we're all wearing VR headsets, sure, then you can complain.

It's like people who come to ELU and want to know a word. What's that word for that thing like a dictionary but you get similar words for...wait what's a word for similar words?

Cerberus

@Robusto Adioz.

@Mitch Thank goodness.

Mitch

I'm going to ask on ELU.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Right, she could have just cut the video and added that in.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus exactly there were a million cuts anyway, which is why I started by mentioning that she produces the videos herself.

Cerberus

10:13 PM

@Mitch It's nice to have one's audience trapped in VR suits.

Maybe she's not suitable, then.

RegDwigнt

That's Utrecht.

Cerberus

Ding!

RegDwigнt

See, I didn't have to ask "where is that" and then wait 20 seconds for your answer. I just read the file name.

Cerberus

Of course you did.

RegDwigнt

Of course I did.

Cerberus

10:15 PM

And how do you like the cathedral?

RegDwigнt

I dunno it's a weird angle.

It looks peculiar with all the negative space.

Cerberus

Does it look weird to you in any way, shape or form?

Hmm why do you think it has that empty space?

RegDwigнt

Also you're talking about VR so I'm guessing it's not even a real photo.

Cerberus

It is real.

RegDwigнt

Well the upper part is for the bells obviously.

Cerberus

10:16 PM

The tower, yes.

But why didn't they connect the tower to the midship?

No, what's that called.

I don't remember.

RegDwigнt

Oh lol I didn't even notice.

Cerberus

The middle part of a church.

RegDwigнt

Yes it's ship alright.

At least in all the languages that matter.

Cerberus

Indeed.

Can you guess why they're not connected?

RegDwigнt

I had to research that, and every other bit of church architecture, when I was writing up my Wiki article on that other cathedral for the competition a couple years ago.

@Cerberus there's a metro station in-between.

But no I wouldn't guess. That goes against my point. I'd just type "Utrecht" into Wiki and find out.

Cerberus

10:18 PM

@RegDwigнt Oh, which one?

This is what the middle part looked like for centuries.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus you should know. It's on my personal wiki page which I know you read because you quoted bits from it like "beginende kennis".

Cerberus

In the 18th century, the ruined part became a famous cruising ground for gays.

At some point, hundreds were executed.

RegDwigнt

Kathedrale der Unbefleckten Empfängnis (Moskau)

Die Kathedrale der Unbefleckten Empfängnis der Heiligen Jungfrau Maria (russisch Собор Непорочного Зачатия Пресвятой Девы Марии/Sobor Neporotschnowo Satschatija Preswjatoj Dewy Marii, im Volksmund auch einfach Костёл/Kostjol oder Кирха/Kircha – „die katholische Kirche“) ist eine neugotische Kirche im Zentrum Moskaus und die Kathedrale des Erzbistums Mutter Gottes von Moskau. Sie ist eine von zurzeit nur zwei geöffneten katholischen Kirchen in Moskau und die größte katholische Kathedrale in ganz Russland. Erbaut 1911 nach einem Entwurf von Tomasz Bohdanowicz-Dworzecki als Filialkirche der polnischen…

Cerberus

Then the ruins were cleared.

@RegDwigнt Ah, that does ring a bell.

RegDwigнt

The English translation is now a Featured article. The German original is only Noteworthy. Goes to show the difference in standards.

Grade inflation.

Cerberus

10:21 PM

Hah.

So the translation was yours as well?

RegDwigнt

No. As I say on my profile page that you read, I knew nothing about it.

:-P

Cerberus

So anyway, the cathedral was struck by the wrath of God, a cyclone.

RegDwigнt

Also you can stop telling be about Utrecht now, I read up about it on wiki.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt I'm sure I have it open in a few tabs...

Tsk.

RegDwigнt

> Ein heftiger Sturm führte am 1. August 1674 zum Einsturz des Mittelschiffs der Kirche. Der Utrechter Maler Herman Saftleven wurde von der Stadtregierung Utrechts beauftragt, die Situation nach dem Einsturz zu dokumentieren. Das stehengebliebene Querschiff wurde mit einer provisorischen Westwand abgeschlossen. Die Ruinen des Mittelschiffs wurden erst 1826 geräumt; an ihrer Stelle entstand der Domplein (Domplatz).

Cerberus

10:22 PM

Schiff, indeed.

RegDwigнt

It's nave in French and Italian as well.

Or something to that extent whatever they spell it.

Cerberus

Ah, yes, of course.

Educ

Hi

Hope you doing well

RegDwigнt

Anyway I have that one book to finish reading in two weeks and I'm still only 1/6 through. And it's a good book so I'm actually eager to find out what happens next but as long as I have this PC running I procrastinate forever.

Cerberus

Navis = ship in Latin, like naval.

RegDwigнt

10:25 PM

Hello Educ and bye Educ.

Educ

@RegDwigнt candide also

RegDwigнt

And bye everyone else.

Cerberus

Why two weeks?

Have fun.

RegDwigнt

Jun 17 at 23:06, by RegDwigнt

Anyway I'm only a few chapters in and it's amazing, but I must be done with it in a couple weeks because I want to buy a copy for a friend's birthday, but I never gift any books that I haven't read myself.

Educ

@RegDwigнt see you soon

Cerberus

10:26 PM

Ah, yes.

Bai.

Feeds

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Q: A Verb for a Child Conducting a Conversation between Toys

I feel like there is a word (more specific than conducting) for this, and that I might even have known it at one point. The word, of course, doesn't have to be limited to this one situation with a child and toys, but it seemed to be the easiest way to get across the idea. She ___ the dolls ta...

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