English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:00

Out of those three, the French Lilac is the closest to what I would call lilac.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 so it does exist on the spectrum, you just have to wrap it around

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Are you laughing at me now?

Carlo_R.

@WillHunting The rainbow has infinite colours.

Matt Эллен

anyway, that probably explains why I call it pink, and others call it purple

Cerberus

See, those lips don't look lilac to me.

Matt Эллен

14:01

they're not lilac

user19161

0

Q: Advanced english, some advices about a translation would be great

I am trying to translate a summary of my resumé from french to english, however I feel like my english is quite simple. It would be great if somebody could give me some advices, because I really feel my translation is quite basic. Here is a sample, I am currently studying information techn...

user19161

OT

Cerberus

They come up when I search for lilac.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен As a pedant, I object to your wrapping of the spectrum in order to claim that colours are on it which are not on it.

user19161

@Carlo_R Well done Carlo! Bravo!

Matt Эллен

14:01

@Cerberus I gathered :D

@MrShinyandNew安宇 well I object to your objection!

Cerberus

@MattЭллен So do I.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

1

Q: Articles in a list

I saw a bear, a lion and a donkey. Is the usage of the article a necessary before each word in a list like this? Biggs set out Monday morning for one of his usual hiking and gold-panning trips near Whiskey Flats when he came across a mother bear, yearling, and cub sitting on a strea...

articles

I could swear that's a dupe.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Wait, now you are a pedant too?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus when it suits me

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightѬſ道 lol. I was thinking the same thing but couldn't find any

Cerberus

14:02

Good to see you've risen above hoi polloi.

Matt Эллен

the hoi polloi? who are them?

user19161

Hoi polloi is beyond my vocabulary.

Cerberus

Or should I be using the right case, tois pollois...or tous pollous?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus As a pedant, I insist that you say "the hoi polloi" because usage defines language.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 That is counter to the essence of pedantry.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:03

@Cerberus It depends on how you apply your pedantry

Matt Эллен

from a pedastal

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I am pedantically descriptivist about language

Cerberus

Believe me, I am the epitome of pedantry.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And when people start spouting "rules" at me, I whip out my smug, pedantic knowledge about usage and prove them wrong! Thus making the world a better place.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MattЭллен this is the closest I could find. Which is to say, not close at all.

8

Q: Is it necessary to use "the" multiple times?

It seems that the question has eventually become a series of questions.... Question 1 An example goes as: The 1st and (the) 2nd paragraphs of the article are extremely long. Is it necessary to use the in ()? Answer contributed by waiwai933 & further explained by Tragicomic General...

articles definite-article

Cerberus

14:05

It makes you prescriptivist, but not pedantic.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 One word at a time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, I'm not prescriptivist.

Cerberus

Yes you are. You are prescribing usage.

Now I am getting a bucketload of déjà-vus.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't object to your usage of "hoi polloi". I object to your prescription of its usage which clearly flies in the face of 99% of all English usage of it.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightѬſ道 I see. the second part of it is quite relevant.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:06

@MattЭллен Yeah...

Cerberus

That's not what I called prescriptivist.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus What's prescriptivist about me then?

Cerberus

3 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus As a pedant, I insist that you say "the hoi polloi" because usage defines language.

Carlo_R.

@WillHunting Do you know Italian language?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus whoops, forgot I said that

Matt Эллен

14:07

lol

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

gah, I'm pedantic AND forgetful! I'm turning into Cerb!

user19161

@Carlo_R Nope. But it is a beautiful language.

Cerberus

And you don't even realize you've always been that way.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Not until you use XP.

Cerberus

Don't deny it, because you've just admitted you're forgetful.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:08

Non capisco un'acca.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, I'm only becoming forgetful. I wasn't always forgetful.

I think.

Cerberus

So you think.

Jinx!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But I'm pretty sure I don't use XP.

Cerberus

You forgot to use it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No, I actively don't use it.

I run Linux. I'm irrationally attached to Linux like you're irrationally attached to AHK.

Matt Эллен

14:10

or is it that you inactively do use it?

Cerberus

So how does that work? You're on a treadmill when you're using Linux?

No wonder you're always huffing and puffing about things.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No. Please refer to the other definitions of the word run.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I was actually referring to actively.

KitFox

Holy crap.

Matt Эллен

yeah, @Cerb, clearly MrS runs Linux - he is in charge of the whole shebang!

KitFox

14:11

You all certainly know how to talk.

Cerberus

Which shebang? His computer?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, I didn't say I actively run Linux. I said I actively DON'T run XP.

@Cerberus The linux shebang

Spelled #!

Matt Эллен

:D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Shebang (Unix)

In computing, a shebang (also called a sha-bang, hashbang, pound-bang, hash-exclam, or hash-pling) is the character sequence consisting of the characters number sign and exclamation mark (#!), when it occurs as the first two characters on the first line of a text file. In this case, the program loader in Unix-like operating systems parses the rest of the first line as an interpreter directive and invokes the program specified after the character sequence with any command line options specified as parameters. The name of the file being executed is passed as the final argument. For example...

Cerberus

So what you're doing when you're actively not running XP is spinning? Power aerobics? Tell me!

Carlo_R.

14:12

@WillHunting Thanks. I am fascinated by English language. It is so beautiful!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MrShinyandNew安宇 that's not Unix. That's Ricky Martin.

Matt Эллен

lol

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightѬſ道 It's eunuchs. and Unix.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Ohh I know one of your references for once! I was 17 then.

I remember watching that on MTV in Rome, which we didn't have at home.

KitFox

tries to get living la vida loca out of her head

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:14

@KitFox that's a different song.

Cerberus

Oh wait, maybe it was that!

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 Same Ricky Martin.

Cerberus

Ugh remembering is like hard.

KitFox

bashes head against wall Get out, get out, get out!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

metacafe.com/watch/sy-18085927/…

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:15

Go, Go, Go! Allez, Allez, Allez!

Matt Эллен

vamos vamos vamos!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

►

Carlo_R.

Andiamo, andiamo, andiamo!

KitFox

Why are those women wearing clothes?

Cerberus

And wasn't he gay or something?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:16

@KitFox Because he is gay.

Matt Эллен

because clothing is the new naked

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Jinx!

Cerberus

Haha!

So he is?

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 That doesn't answer the question.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Who? My favourite Mark Feehily?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:17

@Cerberus He officially announced it a couple years ago. All his female fans were shocked. No man was.

KitFox

Mr. McFeeley?

@RegDwightѬſ道 Really? They were shocked? Women are so stupid.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Ah I see.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox women fans are stupid.

Cerberus

No, can't say I'm shocked.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Ricky Martin fans are stupid.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:18

That would be women.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well, not all women

Cerberus

Kit is a woman in this room, remember?

user19161

Well, even gays can turn straight too.

Cerberus

Like whom?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus She invaded Poland, remember?

Cerberus

14:19

Oh?

user19161

@Cerberus If they force themselves, like my friend.

Cerberus

Well, then what do "being" and "turning" mean?

user19161

I still think orientation is pretty fluid.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting gays cannot turn straight. It's not like changing a shirt.

Cerberus

I don't think it is. There are just many people who like both to various degrees.

Matt Эллен

14:21

indeed

user19161

@Cerberus Ah maybe that's it.

Cerberus

So those people might appear to change, while in fact they are just exploring different aspects of themselves.

user19161

I see more and more people are popping into our interesting chat!

Cerberus

Of course it is possible that some hard-wired change occurs too, but, if so, I think that is rare and small.

KitFox

Have you seen the study about older women shifting to lesbianism?

Carlo_R.

14:23

Valuations like this are closely dependent from cultural approach!

KitFox

Theoretically because of hormone shifts.

Cerberus

No?

user19161

@KitFox Nope. Maybe cos they can't find men.

Cerberus

Hmm.

user19161

Maybe I should turn gay too, hehe.

KitFox

14:24

@WillHunting No, because of physiological changes.

Cerberus

@Carlo_R That too!

KitFox

People don't just choose a different gender because there aren't any convenient partners around.

Carlo_R.

@Cerberus Why?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Yeah, that's true, I'd forgotten that one. But it's still not like @Will's asserting that they "turned" their orientation by choice.

user19161

@KitFox Maybe their imagination runs too wild.

Cerberus

14:25

Then again, behaviour/experience may also have an effect on hormones, which in turn may affect sexuality, so the boundary between hard-wired and fluid is, well, fluid.

KitFox

Attraction isn't something you just decide. That's silly.

Cerberus

To some degree.

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Or, I agree. I just thought it was interesting.

Cerberus

@KitFox In some sense they sometimes do.

user19161

I am thinking sometimes one may think of something so much that over time he becomes that.

Cerberus

14:26

@Carlo_R You said it, not I!

KitFox

@Cerberus But only if they are attracted to begin with.

Carlo_R.

@KitFox You do not decide anything. Is the cultural context that decide for you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting Conditioning, either from oneself or from outside forces, can affect your behaviour. But I don't think it affects whether or not you are gay, just how you deal with that.

Cerberus

@KitFox Well, you don't need sexual attraction for sex. An emotional connection, physical stimulation, and a lack of the other gender can be enough to make people do stuff.

Matt Эллен

just look at prison. well I say that, but I have no idea if it's true

Cerberus

14:28

Yeah.

And farms.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus But just because you have sex with a guy doesn't mean you're gay.

user19161

@Cerberus I think so too.

KitFox

sits in a corner and judges everyone

Carlo_R.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes, you are.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I was commenting on Kit's suggestion that people don't turn to the other gender when there are no females available.

user19161

14:28

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Wow this is getting deep.

Cerberus

They normally don't, but sometimes they do—just not for true love and such, I think.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Carlo_R It's only gay if the balls touch.

KitFox

I didn't say anything about true love.

user19161

@MattЭллен There is a joke which I do not know how common. They tell you to bend down and pick up the soap.

Cerberus

I know.

Carlo_R.

14:29

@RegDwightѬſ道 are you sure?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 This is also very deep.

Cerberus

I was just adding context to make my line more ehm acceptable.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Carlo_R 75k hits on Google.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Carlo_R Nah. Like Matt said, look at prison. Straight guys go to prison and have sex with other straight guys, but they don't become gay. They only have gay sex because that's the only kind they can get.

Cerberus

Or they are less afraid to act on their homosexuality.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:31

1

Q: Proper usage of the semicolon

"I stepped outside to check the rain; it calmed down." or "I stepped outside to check the rain. It calmed down." If the former is correct, then it seems like a bunch of sentences can be joined with a semicolon.

sentence semicolon

Cerberus

Because more people around them do it.

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Which is funny because outside of prison, they'd just masturbate and think about how to get laid.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Kind of gen-ref, kind of dupe.

user19161

I have done many things in my imagination which I would not do in real life...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus If they are already gay then they might come to realize it in prison. But they didn't become gay in prison. They merely broke through their conditioning.

KitFox

14:32

@WillHunting That's a whole nother ball of wax.

Cerberus

@KitFox Yeah there must be something else going on too, some extra factor.

Carlo_R.

What are you saying? You are crazy!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox heheh

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Of course.

user19161

@Carlo_R There are many crazy people here, it's true.

Cerberus

14:32

@KitFox I think maybe the close proximity? Or the lack of prospect of meeting eligible females for the next ten years?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting Not many. Just seven.

Carlo_R.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Is semicolon similar to ball?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Carlo_R Yes and no.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Is 7 the new 9000?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting Yes and no.

Cerberus

14:33

I love how delicately you put it, by the way.

Carlo_R.

Could you be more explicit?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Carlo_R Yes and no.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 I knew it!!

I knew for 100 % you were going to say this.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus You will forget.

Cerberus

So?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:35

Tomorrow you will think it was 89%.

Carlo_R.

@RegDwightѬſ道 This is not an answer.

Cerberus

Don't begrudge me my little moment.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Carlo_R Of course it is.

Look up "answer" in a dictionary of your choice.

Cerberus

What is the opposite of begrudge, by the way?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

unbegrudge

user19161

14:35

@RegDwightѬſ道 Oh I get it, 7 is for few and 9000 is for many, hence yes and no. QED.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Judge Dredd.

Cerberus

Nice tries.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus give

or allow to have

user19161

It seems all sushi questions have been deleted.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Allow is closer, but I meant something like "be fine with someone having x".

There is a Dutch word for that.

Gunnen.

Matt Эллен

14:38

approve?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Grant.

Matt Эллен

yeah!

user19161

Hugh.

Matt Эллен

no

user19161

Hugh Grant is one actor I don't like watching somehow.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:39

Then watch him otherwise.

user19161

I wonder why women find him good-looking.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Who is this "women".

Carlo_R.

Sushi is an argument that I prefer. In this case we must talk of the exclamation point. Is it true?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's the british accent.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Just my imagination perhaps.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:39

@Carlo_R Is what true?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

►

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 So the way to get laid is to have a British accent. QED.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Still too active.

Carlo_R.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ask to Reg

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting not in Britain.

Matt Эллен

14:40

@WillHunting it's not the only requisite, believe me

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus let indulge.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен You need to go to America. Or maybe Canada.

Or Japan.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Better, but SWR!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus letindulge.

Matt Эллен

Japan sounds preferable. Or maybe Canada, but Canada is cold

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:41

I had a friend who went to Japan. He said after a while it got to be a problem because he couldn't tell if girls liked him because of him, or because he was a foreigner.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Spelled "Latin dulge" in the US.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Hmm I like your way of thinking.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Perhaps that kind of attraction will not last very long.

Cerberus

The egg of Columbus.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен How much snow did you get this year? We got one snowfall.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:42

@MrShinyandNew安宇 but being a foreigner in Japan is a part of him.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 well, the time leading up to that point must have been fun :D

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't know. less than last year. how warm is it there now?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен 10°C

user19161

@MattЭллен It was snowing at Mahnax's.

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 about the same here

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting Well, he's in Alberta. They have insane weather there.

Matt Эллен

14:44

maybe I could cope

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's normal and routine for the temp to fluctuate by 30° in one day in Alberta

Matt Эллен

:O

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I was about to correct your "fluxuate"!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting No correcting my spelling in this chat.

user19161

I remember the colorx question.

user19161

14:47

Can't find it now, but it turned out that the x was not for the plural of color but rather that the teacher crossed out the s in colors.

user19161

So the person asked if the plural of color is colorx.

user19161

Hahaha.

Cerberus

Oh yes, that was fun.

user19161

That one must have hit the multicollider too.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

5

Q: "flavorx" v.s. "flavors"

I wrote something about the food. And I use flavors for plural flavor, however my foreign English teacher corrected it as flavorx. And he considers that I also should read 'flavors'. I googled the word 'flavorx', but I almost can't find it used in the articles. Is 'flavorx' the right spell in th...

grammatical-number american-english writing

user19161

14:49

@RegDwightѬſ道 AH it is flavor not color, my bad!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I like how it has eight answers.

0

Q: a or an Hermitian?

I would want to know if I have to write "an Hermitian matrix" or "a Hermitian matrix". The only thing I know is that Hermitian comes from Charles Hermite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hermite.

grammar orthography

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 That is more than 7.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Actually now that I closed it I think what he's actually asking for is whether the H in Hermitian is pronounced.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Well, I am not sure if names are on-topic here.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's a math term.

user19161

14:54

Anyone can call himself anything and pronounce a name in any way.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Hermitian

A number of mathematical entities are named Hermitian, after the mathematician Charles Hermite: *Hermitian adjoint *Hermitian connection, the unique connection on a Hermitian manifold that satisfies specific conditions *Hermitian form, a specific sesquilinear form *Hermitian function, a complex function whose complex conjugate is equal to the original function with the variable changed in sign *Hermitian hat wavelet, a low-oscillation, complex-valued wavelet *Hermitian manifold/structure **Hermitian metric, is a smoothly varying positive-definite Hermitian form on each fiber of a complex...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting nohat says Yes, JA says no.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting that much is true, but the question is how the English-speaking math community pronounces it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2

Q: How are these Brazilian Portuguese names pronounced in English?

How are these Brazilian (Portuguese) names pronounced in (U.S.) English? João Gilberto Astrud Gilberto Bebel Gilberto Vinicius de Moraes Antonio Carlos Jobim Vivo Sonhando EDIT: Since this is reopened, I would like to add these: Toquinho and Manhã de Carnaval

pronunciation

Cerberus

Hmm did you know that America has always had stronger enforcement of patents than England, at least since 1800?

I thought it was a more recent development.

user19161

14:57

I think this is also complicated by the fact that the name can come from many different countries.

Matt Эллен

The surname Ellen, for example could come from Greek or Dutch

RegDwight Ѭſ道

The article on Hermitian functions uses "a Hermitian".

Matt Эллен

hehehe, you said article

Cerberus

True.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

So does the article on Hermitian forms.

Cerberus

14:59

Ellen is a girl's name here.

Could be English.

user19161

Sometimes a person is born in X, lives in Y and marries someone from Z. You don't know what language the name is anymore.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus apparently it is a common shortening of Germanic surnames such as Ellenborg

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…